RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Sillyflower is allowed.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 3:03:54 AM

Michael T

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Everyone needs to run sometimes on some part of the front, its common sense. But only the truely unskilled or lazy player needs to run along the whole front.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 3:06:49 AM

Michael T

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Sorry Hitman, I will refrain from commenting on your AAR. I don't want to turn it in to another Pelton V MT saga.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 6:58:13 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Sorry Hitman, I will refrain from commenting on your AAR. I don't want to turn it in to another Pelton V MT saga.

This would be a shame as you are not doing the turning.

Anyway , I want your advice where I can see it

This game should be renamed the Pro's vs the WiTE Forum

Not that we mind - makes it more entertaining

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/23/2013 7:17:39 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 7:09:53 PM

sillyflower

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quote]ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Sillyflower, it'll be a few more days to do my turn because I want to get stuff figured out well. I'm having to figure stuff out,[/quote]

Take your time. We don't want you and the rest of the forum to have any excuses for a collective loss.

Anyway, the intelligence (in both senses) and preparation you are putting into your winter defence is commendable; it deserves a name

Fall Weiss - unoriginal

Plan Hitman - hardly inspiring or memorable

Preparation H - perfect

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/23/2013 7:11:52 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 8:18:39 PM

HITMAN202

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I'm sorry for my delay, my friends. I do want to give y'all a good challenge and I am having to digest so much info from so many (and willing) advisors. It's important that you and Sean realize that you are not playing against the forum, but against an inexperienced opponent who is not afraid to ask for help. Sapper222 and Bomazz would have been wise to follow Proverbs 11:14 and 15:22.

Code/Operation names are the privilege of the planner. Preparation H only goes to where the sun doesn't shine and I wish to illuminate not only my objective, but also my intent.

However in this case I am open to guidance from the forum.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 8:48:51 PM

Seminole

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quote:

Sapper222 and Bomazz would have been wise to follow Proverbs 11:14 and 15:22.

And what of Timothy 2:11-12?

I prefer Armaments, Chapter Two, Verses Nine to Twenty-One, ftw.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 9:28:29 PM

gingerbread

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I kind of like it better when the quotes are from the book that says count to three.

I mean, soon you will be singing about the chick that went swimming.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/23/2013 10:41:00 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

I'm sorry for my delay, my friends. I do want to give y'all a good challenge and I am having to digest so much info from so many (and willing) advisors. It's important that you and Sean realize that you are not playing against the forum, but against an inexperienced opponent who is not afraid to ask for help.

Seriously for once - it really is good for this game and WiTE generally that you approach it the way you have.it really is no fun to go thru' the pain of the 1st summer and to have the game end shortly after.

Keep taking the advice from MT and the cr#p from ME

.

Enough of that. On the other hand, you could do it the other way round as I doubt there is an Aussie in the world who can't do trashtalk especially with a Pom on the other side. Unlike those gentle Canucks who can't even beg to differ when I say none of them can.

This cultural difference would be interesting to study. My theory is that Aussies have better defensive skills because of natural selection. After all, almost all their wildlife is out to kill them.

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/23/2013 10:49:12 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 3:55:57 PM

HITMAN202

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I finished my last turn 8 days ago and was planning to takeup Sillyflower's challenge and complete my turn in record time, but I ran into a small problem .... I figured out I didn't know whay I was doing.

It's one thing to tell someone what and how to do something; it's another thing to actually do it.

The first big problem was what to do with my offensives, particularly the one in AGN which was starting to show possibilities.

AGS was a no brainer. Belphegor (he's the "southern" commander and "yes man" to Sillyflower ...what else am I to think... he adds nothing to Sillyflower's outrageous comments ... not to say anyone really could) took more steps back and I took as many forward (east.) A huge number of cav and mech units are concentrating there.

[image][/image]

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 3:59:48 PM

HITMAN202

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[image][/image]

You can see Belphegor's build up of a Cav army (big red star), ton's of armour/mech (little stars), and a Stalingrad army (two big red stars.)

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< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 4:02:18 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 4:07:09 PM

HITMAN202

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I've been hammering AGC since the 5th-6th turn and it's really hard emotionally to stop the bloodlust (even on paper), but I began to strighten out the lines there and fan units out north/south.

[image][/image]

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 4:12:52 PM

HITMAN202

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And AGN

[image][/image]

And this was the problem I had .... turning off (more approprialtely slowing down) the German attack there. In M60/mehring AAR you see the potential a concentrated mass of Pz can do against even the most formidable Soviet fort line. I was excited by his success in AGN (however MT, as I offered to you the opportunity to switch games ..your's for mine against Bobo, I will not to mehring as on turn 19 his a** is gra** and M60 is drooling thinking about blizzard.)

So I decided to call it quits to the summer of '41 (reminds me of the puerile interests I had toward Jennifer O'Neil in "The Summer of '42") and became reminiscent of my first 17 turns. That caused me further delays in posting this turn.

I became discouraged. On the plus side 1) I took Leningrad 2) loss no important leaders 3) did nothing overtly stupid and 4) held my own (possibly even one upped) with Sillyflower in the trash talk (Pretty Polly was memorable.. even Sillyflower remarked as much ..privately.. to me). But the downside 1) really never threatened Moscow and Rostov 2) my casualties are already 500,000 3) his (THEPROS I mean, sorry Sean) will not reach 2.5 mil by blizzard (depends on my winter O) and 4) (most distressingly) my strategy was pretty infantile in retrospect.

As most have already pointed out, 1) I wasn't flexible. 2) went too directly at the 3 AG targets and 3) concentrated my forces in each AG's too much

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< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 4:51:17 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 4:53:04 PM

HITMAN202

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The army stats

[image][/image]

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 4:54:06 PM

HITMAN202

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And casualties

[image][/image]

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 6:02:45 PM

HITMAN202

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Now back to the not knowing what to do.

If I had merely laughed at that thought and ignored it I would have been in good company. The list is endless, but Flaviusx, MT, Ketza, Pelton and THEPROS could name solid Axis players with blizzard tombstones. In fact I doubt there's not a skilled Axis player who in the very least have found themselves in major distress facing the paradox of blizzard.

And that's the point. Playing the blizzard is a paradox for the German player. To be successful in the blizzard the German player needs to do things that don't seem to make sense at the time, (stress at the time) they need to be done.

In fact the real humour of blizzard is that the Germans need to critically do the very things that the Soviets did to survive the German summer '41 attack. And those things are 1) build forts, 2) marshal troops to key sectors and 3) selectively run.

So how do you accomplish these things in a sensible way ????

Let's go forward to March 1942 glvaca/Tarhunnas AAR and look

[image][/image]

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 6:09:55 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 6:03:48 PM

HITMAN202

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[image][/image]

The Soviets had their blizzard heyday and facing their weakened, beaten German foe were devastated on the first turn of March by this huge isolation.

Tarhunnas soon resigned.

My point here is that come March '42 the German military might is back and the Soviets need to beware. In fact come February, the Axis can inflict punishment on an unsuspecting opponent. So as a novice (not a NOOBE but close to it) I want to focus protecting myself during the 10 turns of blizzard

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< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 6:23:14 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 6:58:10 PM

HITMAN202

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My game plan is to be ultra-conservative to avoid major isoations. So in general I'm going to follow Pelton's advice in keeping out of harms way. But because of the close proximity of my planned blizzard defensive lines in AGN to the present front lines. I'm going to have to take MT's leadership there. Ultimately I think MT's aggressive mindset is the best Axis approach, but Pelton's advice is more sensible. MT needs to realize few can play like him.

My fallback lines

[image][/image]

AGS is a no brainer. Since I want to avoid encirclements, I set my fall back line about 18 hexesback from the present front line. By retreating 2 hexes a turn with a continuous line in Jan/Feb, the Soviet infantry will not be able to make deliberate attacks and that will take a major worry away. Against the Cav I will concentrate Pz's and the Allied Mt to inhibit. A AGS fall back line is being formed by a continuos line of fortifications (just south of Poltava extending to the Black Sea) that will be a 3 strength fort network come early January. I think this could be constructed much closer to the present front line, but remeber, I'm being ultra conservative.

North of Poltava I plan a simple screen that will retreat as far back as needed.

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< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 7:33:32 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 7:35:48 PM

HITMAN202

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AGN is going to be tougher, but none-the-less well planned.

[image][/image]

AGC I will form a less tight fall back line (compared to AGS)

But the focus is noth and south of Lake Ilmen. Already in this turn's AGN screen shot you see many units at work forming a desense fort network.

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< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 7:41:42 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 7:51:36 PM

HITMAN202

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Noth of Ilmen I'll have a dense three hex wide fortress

[image][/image]

South of the lake I'll start with a three hex wide network, narrowing as the line stretches south. Each hex withh have 2 studs (ger Mt and SS) with reserve support both in the terms of activation and replcements. I bet troops in Leningrad (in safehaven) can also be triggered in activation.

Now in regards to specific units and their placement, that will be easy. I think this is a workable plan.

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< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 4/28/2013 8:03:23 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/28/2013 10:16:35 PM

Michael T

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Hitman, run if you must but please don't give up the Valdai!

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/29/2013 1:30:55 AM

Peltonx

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Be nice if he can holdem, but will not be easy.

I have tried holding them in my games, some times you can some times you can't. As long as he can hold the rivers coming south he be good for a long time. The north never moves unless the SHC puts allot into the area which is great as it is a long ways from Berlin. I have never had it break, south always breaks first and north with draws to shorten frontage.

He get pushed back 4 to 6 hexes even if he fights tooth an nail, if SHC pushes hard.

Lines north of Tula generaly go static after blizzard as most of manpower is south of OKA.

Your looking good hitmann dont get all depressed. Stick to the plan, but for sure take everyones advise as every game is different.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/30/2013 11:46:07 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Noth of Ilmen I'll have a dense three hex wide fortress

[image][/image]

.

Looks like rows of German cemeteries to me.

You've done well for a noobie. Heck I've have had several Germans not get to T17. I wold broadly agree with your analysis. Not sure where it went wrong for the Luftwaffe tho'. The losses were incredibly high. I can only think it was because you did not bomb our airbases on T1.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/30/2013 11:51:12 PM

sillyflower

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And here they are

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 4/30/2013 11:56:15 PM

sillyflower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Now back to the not knowing what to do.

the Germans need to critically do the very things that the Soviets did to survive the German summer '41 attack. And those things are 1) build forts, 2) marshal troops to key sectors and 3) selectively run.

So how do you accomplish these things in a sensible way ????

And here is the last remnant of a once proud German armoured unit searching for safe winter quarters under the eyes of vigilant Soviet recce forces

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 4/30/2013 11:58:05 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 5/1/2013 12:24:36 AM

HITMAN202

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I think you are right. The "Ketza Doctrine" (Axis Diary #1) as followed by me produced 900-1000 kills at a loss of 40-50 planes. I have replayed move 1 using "Ketza Doctrine/HITMAN variant" which is 1) making all ground attacks first, 2) except for airfield bombing of units that will be overrun on turn 1, and 3) "selectively" bombing airfields after all ground combat. Kaunas is a death trap for bombers on turn #1 and should be avoided. There are others.

Using Ketza/HITMAN on 2 dry runs I killed 2400-2700 Ruskies at the expense of 140-150 German airframes. Sillyflower, I also was indiscriminant with how I used my ground attacks and air supply refueling of my mech units. Your compatriot, Belphegor, set up the Soviet air doctrine in such a way that any ground attack or air supply mission that had no fighter escort was chewed up pretty bad. I ignored the losses until I saw the numbers rise. Kamil needs to talk to your buddy about Russian air doctrine. It's been no fun for me to face.

But Axis air power is a element of the game that must be used effectively (ie. often) in '41 and losses will be high in all bomber types IMO.

But my air losses to THEPROS were due to Ketza's poor instructions to an over-eager student. "Ketza/HITMAN" however is a go !!! Try it !!!

Is Ketza out there to defend himself ????

< Message edited by HITMAN202 -- 5/1/2013 12:31:51 AM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 5/1/2013 12:39:06 AM

Peltonx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

Is Ketza out there to defend himself ????

I have been using it and its working for me.

I am currently disbanding all none converting TB=FB units in October 42. Only fighter units by Jan 43.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 5/1/2013 2:27:42 AM

HITMAN202

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Remember Pelton, so much of my dribble/drabble is tongue-in-cheek (I'm starting show your English influence on me Sillyflower), so be aware. But my understanding of Ketza's German air doctrine was to keep the Russian air force alive in order for German fighters to chew on it to quickly gain experience and morale. Thus it was my understanding that the Germans should not extensively bomb Soviet airfields on turn 1. Sillyflower thinks that's one reason I had such high air losses int the first 17 turns; he (Sean) had more fighters available to shoot my bombers down. I think he is partially correct.

So my post was all about modifying Ketza's plan in light of Sillyflower's comment; thus the selective bombing of airfields at the end of turn1. It produced almost an additional 2000 destroyed Soviet planes at a cost of 100 German. So I renamed it Ketza/HITMAN doctrine.

It's possible that I misunderstood Ketza in "Axis War Diaries #1" and widespread airfield bombing was to be done on turn 1. I would not be surprised.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 5/1/2013 11:32:40 AM

carlkay58

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If you look closely at Axis air losses in 41 you will note that the Soviet Flak is deadly. In the above Air Losses screen you see that there are almost as many losses to Flak as there are in Air to Air for the Luftwaffe. In most of my games the Flak losses are higher than the Air to Air. This may or may not be a problem (i.e. bug) but it does do some serious hurt to the Luftwaffe over time.

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 5/1/2013 5:56:46 PM

sillyflower

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but air to air losses are only just better than 2:1 in Jerries' favour.

Rumour has it that German pilots are now refusing to fly recce missions after the Red airforce's newest ace strikes again

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< Message edited by sillyflower -- 5/1/2013 6:02:36 PM >

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RE: HITMAN202 versus THEP RO's Sean is welcomed ... Si... - 5/1/2013 10:46:31 PM

Peltonx

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If you just fly fighter CAP it go back to 10:1 or higher very quickly.

If you were not carefull your giving SHc easy exp and morale in 41.

If you give them very little to shot at you will still have a 20-1 ratio when not fling recon in summer 44.

Recon drops it, hay Stailn will blow his horn over German house flies killed to try and get morale up.

sillyflower is all propaganda, a German spy just sent back this picture as proof

Comrades celebrate the killing of 34 German house flys

< Message edited by Pelton -- 5/1/2013 10:52:50 PM >

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