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RE: Discontinued? - 7/19/2013 10:39:59 PM   
Rodia


Posts: 123
Joined: 9/19/2012
Status: offline 		Here's an idea: We could troll other Matrix forums to get noticed and express our indignation, but in a subtle way if you know what I mean.

For example: Battle Academy gets an update? Someone of us goes to their board and post this: "Oh man, an update! How I wish I was playing this Matrix game instead TOAW!"

If we do this strictly by turns, there's nothing much Matrix can do.

Besides, I always wanted to troll in the Distant Worlds boards, those pussies.


(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 61
RE: Discontinued? - 7/19/2013 11:55:38 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I think they need to step in and do something now..I's obvious Ralph is going to be away long term and it's not fair on the players nor on Ralph really for everything to go on hold until he is well again. It seems a few here are more than capable of taking the patch up and to get cracking with it. Ralph can always come back when and if he feels like it.

We all know once a game stops selling then it's not economically viable for them to carry on working on it. However here we have a situation that people are willing to work on it for free and it's also not taking up time from other game development.

I really can't see why Erik hasn't passed the reigns on from Ralph to someone else by now. I mean this current situation could go on for years..and by that time there maybe no one around who can be bothered to take it up or with enough knowledge to take it up.



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(in reply to Rodia)
Post #: 62
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 4:09:54 AM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		I am a little confused here.

How much of the code, etc, does Ralph have, and is presumably inaccessible?
How much of the code does Eric have that is not under licence, and would be available for development?

signed
Kunz, hptm


(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 63
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 5:03:10 AM   
Shazman

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

I am a little confused here.

How much of the code, etc, does Ralph have, and is presumably inaccessible?
How much of the code does Eric have that is not under licence, and would be available for development?

signed
Kunz, hptm




When anything about 3.5 is brought up Curtis Lemay (Bob Cross) utters the two magic words. Ralph Trickey, and the conversation ends. Seems Ralph owns the code to 3.5 it would appear. I'm guessing that is because he used the code from 3.4 for 3.5. But Matrix 'owns' or 'has' the code for 3.4 or earlier.

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 64
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 1:11:13 PM   
USXpat

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 8/26/2010
Status: offline 		There are at least a few of us designing something for the next version - not exactly talking about small scenarios either. It's a labor of love for us, involving literally hundreds of hours. Updating the game engine is one thing - having scenarios that apply the new features is another. Whether the scenarios are any good, that requires testing - and testers - hundreds of hours more by both testers and scenario designers. More than that, too - but that's a decent start.

The state of game development today is very different than it was five years ago. Crowdfunding is an option for any given project. Crowdsourcing, too - makes it easier for game companies to get games to the market. Neither is in any way "particularly creative", just two options immediately at hand. Here Matrix has volunteers willing to do programming, scenario design, testing and more.

For Matrix, it's a choice between a combined arms development paradigm or sticking to trench warfare.

(in reply to Shazman)
Post #: 65
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 1:17:51 PM   
jmlima

 

Posts: 782
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USXpat

....
For Matrix, it's a choice between a combined arms development paradigm or sticking to trench warfare.


Not sure if the pun on Combined Arms is intended, but when you stick in the same sentence 'Matrix', 'Combined Arms' and 'development', inside me there's a voice tha instantly goes 'NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...'.

Also, not sure why, but suddenly a tumble-weed came to my mind.

(in reply to USXpat)
Post #: 66
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 1:29:01 PM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shazman


quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

I am a little confused here.

How much of the code, etc, does Ralph have, and is presumably inaccessible?
How much of the code does Eric have that is not under licence, and would be available for development?

signed
Kunz, hptm




When anything about 3.5 is brought up Curtis Lemay (Bob Cross) utters the two magic words. Ralph Trickey, and the conversation ends. Seems Ralph owns the code to 3.5 it would appear. I'm guessing that is because he used the code from 3.4 for 3.5. But Matrix 'owns' or 'has' the code for 3.4 or earlier.


To continue my question, can Curtis Lemay confirm this is the case with Ralph and the 3.5 code?
And does Matrix have the full ownership of 3.4 TOAW code, and would be under no restictions to giving it to the TOAW community?

(in reply to Shazman)
Post #: 67
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 1:41:57 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		Just thought I'd throw this opinion back up in case no one responds, from Post #8 in this thread:

... Matrix doesn't own the source code for TOAW, they own the right to develop and publish the game. The core rights reside with Take-Two Interactive.



< Message edited by sPzAbt653 -- 7/20/2013 1:43:13 PM >

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 68
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 3:01:21 PM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

WT*?! Well, if they discontinue it, then they should release the source code, no?


My understanding is that Matrix doesn't own the source code for TOAW, they own the right to develop and publish the game. The core rights reside with Take-Two Interactive.

Anyway, I think everyone will be a lot happier if they stop anxiously expecting another patch and work with what we have.


Here is Post #8 in its entirety. I agree completely with the second line...

signed
Kunz, HPTM

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 69
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 3:35:46 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shazman


quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

I am a little confused here.

How much of the code, etc, does Ralph have, and is presumably inaccessible?
How much of the code does Eric have that is not under licence, and would be available for development?

signed
Kunz, hptm




When anything about 3.5 is brought up Curtis Lemay (Bob Cross) utters the two magic words. Ralph Trickey, and the conversation ends. Seems Ralph owns the code to 3.5 it would appear. I'm guessing that is because he used the code from 3.4 for 3.5. But Matrix 'owns' or 'has' the code for 3.4 or earlier.


To continue my question, can Curtis Lemay confirm this is the case with Ralph and the 3.5 code?
And does Matrix have the full ownership of 3.4 TOAW code, and would be under no restictions to giving it to the TOAW community?


The short answer is that I just don't know. I only know that the development team doesn't have any ACOW or TOAW III source code.

But I gave my opinion (only!) on it here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3326549

Disregarding the sad case of Combined Arms, does anyone know of a case where Matrix changed programmers on any project? Even if they have the source code, there may be contractual barriers to doing so.

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 70
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 3:46:33 PM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Thanks for your input, Bob.
Could you please review my post re: FLAK in Two Weeks in Normandy, and let us know your take on the real effect of the "AA-Bug?"

Also, has anyone tested a house-rule that 'a unit cannot be both entrenched and ignore-losses?' As far as I can tell Elmer has not caught onto this yet, so that would help.


(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 71
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 4:02:18 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

Thanks for your input, Bob.
Could you please review my post re: FLAK in Two Weeks in Normandy, and let us know your take on the real effect of the "AA-Bug?"


Of course it's not a "show stopper" - after all, we went for a decade where high-altitude bombers were immune to all AAA.

quote:

Also, has anyone tested a house-rule that 'a unit cannot be both entrenched and ignore-losses?' As far as I can tell Elmer has not caught onto this yet, so that would help.


See SealClubber's post #5 in the thread I just linked above.

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 72
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 5:00:41 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		Guys,

With reference to Combined Arms: World War II - the game formerly known as Battlefields!, the game formerly known as Battlefront - the developer, Ludovic Coval, posted on 21 October 2009 that "Game and Editor are completed awaiting for test since June. Sorry I cant say more as I dont know more."

As far as I can tell, it is not a development problem. The most likely explanation for its continued delay is that the game, unfortunately, turned out to be a Turkey. Why Matrix continues to host that forum I do not know.

TOAW is not a Turkey.

Again, as far as I can tell, all the TOAW forums are dying. This is nothing to do with the lack of 3.5; activity on the TOAW forums have been in steady decline since before release of the 3.2 patch. One of the big differences between the period 2001 - 2006 and now is that forum activity was still vibrant in the lost years.

I fully agree with Ben and Bob. Let's get on with what we have and wait for development to restart.

Best wishes,
Steve

< Message edited by shunwick -- 7/20/2013 5:02:45 PM >

_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 73
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 6:41:50 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick

Guys,

With reference to Combined Arms: World War II - the game formerly known as Battlefields!, the game formerly known as Battlefront - the developer, Ludovic Coval, posted on 21 October 2009 that "Game and Editor are completed awaiting for test since June. Sorry I cant say more as I dont know more."

As far as I can tell, it is not a development problem. The most likely explanation for its continued delay is that the game, unfortunately, turned out to be a Turkey. Why Matrix continues to host that forum I do not know.

TOAW is not a Turkey.

Again, as far as I can tell, all the TOAW forums are dying. This is nothing to do with the lack of 3.5; activity on the TOAW forums have been in steady decline since before release of the 3.2 patch. One of the big differences between the period 2001 - 2006 and now is that forum activity was still vibrant in the lost years.

I fully agree with Ben and Bob. Let's get on with what we have and wait for development to restart.

Best wishes,
Steve

Aye, even I restarted my efforts on Kharkov '43 (thanks to Uncle Larry) and modifying a special .eqp for Hptm. Rob 'Doc' Kunz.

And remember... be happy in your work.

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

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Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 74
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 6:42:15 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

Again, as far as I can tell, all the TOAW forums are dying. This is nothing to do with the lack of 3.5; activity on the TOAW forums have been in steady decline since before release of the 3.2 patch. One of the big differences between the period 2001 - 2006 and now is that forum activity was still vibrant in the lost years.

This has been my experience as well. When I migrated to WITE some 3 or 4 years ago I seem to remember people like Siberian Heat
and Jamiam etc. and you never see them post here anymore, just for an example. I seem to remember a lot more traffic than we see
now.

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 75
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 6:49:53 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ

Thanks for your input, Bob.
Could you please review my post re: FLAK in Two Weeks in Normandy, and let us know your take on the real effect of the "AA-Bug?"

Also, has anyone tested a house-rule that 'a unit cannot be both entrenched and ignore-losses?' As far as I can tell Elmer has not caught onto this yet, so that would help.



Doc,

I've done some extensive testing lately and analysed the logs with the ubderdude=Y settings, both in the modified Ardennes '44 and my Kharkov '43 scenario; ground support and interdiction...

AIRCombat:Interdict unit: Soviet Union 10 Tank Corps, 178 Tank Bde.
Combat :Removing available equipment from combat inventory.
AIRCombat:Begin Axis frictional air support (ground attack).
AIRCombat:Air Support: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3.
AIRCombat:Begin frictional anti aircraft fire.
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3.
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3.

Combat : Smite: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3, (other), attrition%= 11.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-88 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-88 (late) destroyed.
Combat : Soviet Union weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (late).
Combat : Potentially effective hit on Axis Ju-88 (late) by Soviet Union weapon.
Combat : Ju-88 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 21%
Combat : Check morale: Axis LwKdo Don, III./KG 3, ouch=189,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check failed (demoralized).
Combat : End smite...

Klink, Oberst

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Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 76
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 9:19:16 PM   
kmitahj

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/25/2011
Status: offline 		From what I can see these looks like loses from air-to-air combat, at least assuming there is nothing missing between "Committed to furball" AIRCombat message and following Combat lines. Below is example where the loses where definitely due to flak fire:

quote:

News :Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2 bombards the target.
AIRCombat: Soviet 10A, 71ozad contributes anti-aircraft fire (12).
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2.
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) supports the attack.
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-).
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, I/II JG 51.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, I/II JG 51 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, II. /JG 52.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, II. /JG 52 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:End penetration attempt.
AIRCombat:StG 2 targeted by Soviet anti-aircraft fire (36/197).

Combat : Smite: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2, (anti-air low), attrition%= 4.
Combat : Soviet weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 4%
Combat : Check morale: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2, ouch=36,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check failed (loss tolerance exceeded).
Combat : End smite...

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 77
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 10:36:51 PM   
Shazman

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kmitahj

From what I can see these looks like loses from air-to-air combat, at least assuming there is nothing missing between "Committed to furball" AIRCombat message and following Combat lines. Below is example where the loses where definitely due to flak fire:

quote:

News :Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2 bombards the target.
AIRCombat: Soviet 10A, 71ozad contributes anti-aircraft fire (12).
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2.
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) supports the attack.
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-).
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, I/II JG 51.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, I/II JG 51 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, II. /JG 52.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, II. /JG 52 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:End penetration attempt.
AIRCombat:StG 2 targeted by Soviet anti-aircraft fire (36/197).

Combat : Smite: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2, (anti-air low), attrition%= 4.
Combat : Soviet weapons firing on Axis Ju-87 (late).
Combat : Ju-87 (late) damaged, sent to replacement pool.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 4%
Combat : Check morale: Axis Luftflotte 2, StG 2, ouch=36,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check failed (loss tolerance exceeded).
Combat : End smite...



Of course there were losses to AAA fire. 71ozad is a AAA unit with a AAA icon. No problem with units with a AAA icon. WAD.

(in reply to kmitahj)
Post #: 78
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 10:49:30 PM   
Curtis Lemay


Posts: 12969
Joined: 9/17/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

This has been my experience as well. When I migrated to WITE some 3 or 4 years ago I seem to remember people like Siberian Heat
and Jamiam etc. and you never see them post here anymore, just for an example. I seem to remember a lot more traffic than we see
now.


They don't post anywhere anymore:

Siberian Heat's last Matrix post was 10/27/2006 & last login was 1/16/2007.
Jamiam's last Matrix post was 5/1/2012 & last login was 9/22/2012.

Even Ralph's doing better than that.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 79
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 11:14:54 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		I was kind of expecting some sort of details to emerge out of that Historicon event. Is it over, and does anybody know if there was any info to come out of it ?

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 80
RE: Discontinued? - 7/20/2013 11:35:28 PM   
kmitahj

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shazman

[...]
Of course there were losses to AAA fire. 71ozad is a AAA unit with a AAA icon. No problem with units with a AAA icon. WAD.


Of course it's "of course". But the point of my post was not what was in the log fragment I've attached but what was missing in another log fragment posted above. That missing parts (plus the AirCombat lines above Combat lines there ) are clear indications that airplane loses there were not the result of ani-aircraft fire.

But if you are after something which is maybe not so "of course" here is another log fragment:

quote:

Combat :Begin Axis attack on location 34,97.
Combat :Removing available equipment from combat inventory.
News : Axis attack location 34,97 (Augustov).
Combat :Removing available equipment from combat inventory.
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1 supports the attack.
AIRCombat: Soviet ZF (ZapOVO), 13po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 68UR contributes anti-aircraft fire (25).
AIRCombat: Soviet 3A, 27/345 contributes anti-aircraft fire (8).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 84po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1.
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 supports the attack.
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) supports the attack.
News :Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26 supports the attack.
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-).
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:End penetration attempt.
AIRCombat:KG 1 targeted by Soviet anti-aircraft fire (159/495).

Combat : Smite: Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1, (anti-air low), attrition%= 5.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 0%
Combat : Check morale: Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1, ouch=0,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (low casualties).
Combat : End smite...

Combat :Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1 equipment added to combat inventory.
Supply :Air Support:,5,Axis Luftflotte 1, KG 1
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77 supports the attack.
AIRCombat: Soviet ZF (ZapOVO), 13po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 68UR contributes anti-aircraft fire (25).
AIRCombat: Soviet 3A, 27/345 contributes anti-aircraft fire (8).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 84po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77.
News :Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51 supports the attack.
News :Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26 supports the attack.
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-).
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, III/IV JG 51 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, Erg/II ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:End penetration attempt.
AIRCombat:II/III KG 77 targeted by Soviet anti-aircraft fire (159/459).

Combat : Smite: Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77, (anti-air low), attrition%= 5.
Combat : Soviet weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (early).
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 0%
Combat : Check morale: Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77, ouch=0,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (low casualties).
Combat : End smite...

Combat :Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77 equipment added to combat inventory.
Supply :Air Support:,5,Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III KG 77
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp supports the attack.
AIRCombat: Soviet ZF (ZapOVO), 13po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 68UR contributes anti-aircraft fire (25).
AIRCombat: Soviet 3A, 27/345 contributes anti-aircraft fire (8).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 84po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp.
News :Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III JG 54 supports the attack.
News :Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III JG 27 supports the attack.
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, ZG 26 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III JG 27.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III JG 27 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:End penetration attempt.
AIRCombat:KüstFlGrp targeted by Soviet anti-aircraft fire (159/295).

Combat : Smite: Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp, (anti-air low), attrition%= 7.
Combat : Soviet weapons firing on Axis Ju-88 (early).
Combat : Ju-88 (early) destroyed.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 4%
Combat : Check morale: Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp, ouch=37,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check failed (loss tolerance exceeded).
Combat : End smite...

Combat :Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp equipment added to combat inventory.
Supply :Air Support:,5,Axis Luftflotte 1, KüstFlGrp
News :Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III KG 53 supports the attack.
AIRCombat: Soviet ZF (ZapOVO), 13po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 68UR contributes anti-aircraft fire (25).
AIRCombat: Soviet 3A, 27/345 contributes anti-aircraft fire (8).
AIRCombat: Soviet BelPO, 84po contributes anti-aircraft fire (10).
AIRCombat:Attempt Penetration: Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III KG 53.
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, I. /JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III JG 54.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II/III JG 54 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-).
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 1, II. /JG 53 (-) escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat: Committed to furball: Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III KG 53.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III KG 53 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:Committed to furball (escort): Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III JG 27.
Combat : Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III JG 27 escapes attrition (insufficient attack).
AIRCombat:End penetration attempt.
AIRCombat:II/III KG 53 targeted by Soviet anti-aircraft fire (159/482).

Combat : Smite: Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III KG 53, (anti-air low), attrition%= 5.
Combat : Soviet weapons firing on Axis He-111.
Combat : He-111 destroyed.
Combat : Soviet weapons firing on Axis He-111.
Combat : He-111 destroyed.
Combat : Weighted direct combat losses: 5%
Combat : Check morale: Axis Luftflotte 2, II/III KG 53, ouch=45,ouch threshold=50.
Combat : Morale check passed (low casualties).
Combat : End smite...


That was taken from DNO scenario, first turn, attack on Augustow location. Note all four defending units contributing to AA-fire with their AA strengths listed and also rather high (at least for that scenario) cumulative AA fire strength of 159 (159 = [10+25+8+10] times 3). Of course that result was taken using slightly modified OPART program (patched to allow all units participate in AA fire). Is it WAD or not WAD I would'nt dare to judge ;)

note: quote above is only a fragment(but still rather long one) in case you would like to verify whole action related to attack on Augustow location it is attached in the file.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Shazman)
Post #: 81
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 12:38:00 AM   
Shazman

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline 		So you are telling me you have a patched version of 3.4 where the AAA in non AAA units actually works? Exactly where can someone get this patched 3.4 and why doesn't anyone know about it nor said it even exists?????

Will be very interested to see your reply to this.

< Message edited by Shazman -- 7/21/2013 12:40:47 AM >

(in reply to kmitahj)
Post #: 82
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 2:42:58 AM   
kmitahj

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shazman
So you are telling me you have a patched version of 3.4 where the AAA in non AAA units actually works? Exactly where can someone get this patched 3.4 and why doesn't anyone know about it nor said it even exists?????

Will be very interested to see your reply to this.

Well, yes I've patched 3.4.0.202 exe file so that all units are contributing to low altitude AAA fire as if they were AAA units. Honestly I'm not sure if that gonna be the right solution to the problem (please take a look at that post for why I think it may be not quite so). Please note also I didn't test it much yet even within the single scenario I'm currently playing with - for example I didn't yet test bridge attacks nor attacks against naval units (should work the same as other attacks but you never know before you test). And to judge usefullness of that patch one would have to check it in multitude of other scenarios. Even if I had enough time and patience to try it being new to TOAW I certainly don't have enough knowleadge about all tricks and quirks of tOAW to do it in credible way.
When you take the above into account I guess you will get reasonable answer for "why doesn't anyone know about it nor said it even exists???" and if that answer is not enough please imagine someone unknown posting on that forum binary program claiming it to be great solution for a bug in your favorite game. I guess most people would treat such post at best as spamming, at worst as yet another wicked attempt to spread some virus or trojan. Probably rightly so taking into account how easy it is to catch some sh*t on the Internet these days.

But anyway I am just saying it (the patch) exists, ain't I? and if you want to test it yourself just send me a PM with your email address and I will send it to you.


(in reply to Shazman)
Post #: 83
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 5:36:14 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

if you want to test it yourself just send me a PM with your email address and I will send it to you

PM sent kmitahj dude. I'd like to test that bad boy myself.

(in reply to kmitahj)
Post #: 84
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 8:21:53 AM   
josant

 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/14/2007
From: Spain
Status: offline 		PM sent.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 85
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 8:32:09 AM   
fogger

 

Posts: 1446
Joined: 9/17/2006
Status: offline 		Larry,
Patch v3.4.0.202 (33mb) can be down loaded from the MG website (posted 10 Feb 2011)

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If you feel like doing some work, sit down and wait....... The feeling does go away.

(in reply to josant)
Post #: 86
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 8:35:19 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fogger
Larry,
Patch v3.4.0.202 (33mb) can be down loaded from the MG website (posted 10 Feb 2011)

Thanks fogger dude but I've already got a copy of it. I appreciate you thinking of me however. It's people like you that make this
world a little bit better for the rest of us. Thanks.

(in reply to fogger)
Post #: 87
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 11:28:08 AM   
Telumar


Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kmitahj

Well, yes I've patched 3.4.0.202 exe file so that all units are contributing to low altitude AAA fire as if they were AAA units.


And how would you have done so?

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(in reply to kmitahj)
Post #: 88
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 8:00:24 PM   
kmitahj

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 4/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
quote:

ORIGINAL: kmitahj

Well, yes I've patched 3.4.0.202 exe file so that all units are contributing to low altitude AAA fire as if they were AAA units.

And how would you have done so?

How? Patience is a virtue. Programming background and some programmer tools were useful too but the main tool was defintely patience. A lot of it!
Note that the patch itself is pretty simple if not dumb one: all it does is disabling a check for AA-unit type in one selected place. Finding such right place to change is of course the real issue and with no access to source code it costs a lot of work and time (rather boring work to be frank).
That's it unless you are really interested in the gory details or in repeating such an experiment yourself!.

(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 89
RE: Discontinued? - 7/21/2013 9:57:49 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kmitahj


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar
quote:

ORIGINAL: kmitahj

Well, yes I've patched 3.4.0.202 exe file so that all units are contributing to low altitude AAA fire as if they were AAA units.

And how would you have done so?

How? Patience is a virtue. Programming background and some programmer tools were useful too but the main tool was defintely patience. A lot of it!
Note that the patch itself is pretty simple if not dumb one: all it does is disabling a check for AA-unit type in one selected place. Finding such right place to change is of course the real issue and with no access to source code it costs a lot of work and time (rather boring work to be frank).
That's it unless you are really interested in the gory details or in repeating such an experiment yourself!.


Good show, but... d/l link, please?! It's of utmost importance that I can use it to finalize the Kharkpv '43 and the upcoming (alas planned...) Mius '43 scenario!

Klink, Oberst

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(in reply to kmitahj)
Post #: 90
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