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RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/29/2013 11:04:10 AM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
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Numdydar: keep in mind that in that WitE screenshot, there are only 6 actual Rifle divisions, the rest of the units are fortified regions (represented in GaW in the shape of bunkers) and NKVD regiments (not represented in GaW mostly, aside from NKVD Rifle divisions).

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to Ronald Wendt)

Post #: 31

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/29/2013 7:35:39 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Which is why as the scale got smaller in GaW from WitE more Regiments/Brigades should have been added versus keeping everything in divisions. A division had a frontage of about 10k iirc. So a division at the scale of GaW should be spread over two hexes instead of still being in one. This would make things in GaW work far better and more realisticly than they do now for both sides.

So far this is the biggest flaw in the game to me (along with the ridiculous movement rate of AC). The scale doubled from WitE but the unit density stayed the same. So that there is no reason to attack except the VP hexes since you can get through the lines without any problem. I have stopped playing the campaigns because of this. The scenario's seem much better in this regard. But as I bought the mainly for the campaigns, that does not do much for me.

Your earlier post about not having to attack every unit in WitE to break through the lines is correct. But even in GaW you should have to at least attack SOMETHING to be able to do the same thing. The fact that you can just drive on by and wave is very ahistorical to say the least. So I am REALLY hopeful this gets addressed soon in a patch. Especially since I (and likely others) were hoping for a PC in a real historical setting. You have 2 out of three, historical maps and PC mechanics. Now if you can get a better historical behavior for how you need to attack units not in VP hexes and no resupply anywhere you want, we will be good

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 7/29/2013 7:36:45 PM >

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 32

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/29/2013 8:41:09 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Again not to pick on this poster but really now... What do you expect ? Whole panzer divisions that have only one panzer type? Sounds like PC to me. While I have only played three sen. In this I am TOTALY turned off by the unrealistic feel of this game. Sure the units have names. Big deal!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Which is why as the scale got smaller in GaW from WitE more Regiments/Brigades should have been added versus keeping everything in divisions. A division had a frontage of about 10k iirc. So a division at the scale of GaW should be spread over two hexes instead of still being in one. This would make things in GaW work far better and more realisticly than they do now for both sides.

So far this is the biggest flaw in the game to me (along with the ridiculous movement rate of AC). The scale doubled from WitE but the unit density stayed the same. So that there is no reason to attack except the VP hexes since you can get through the lines without any problem. I have stopped playing the campaigns because of this. The scenario's seem much better in this regard. But as I bought the mainly for the campaigns, that does not do much for me.

Your earlier post about not having to attack every unit in WitE to break through the lines is correct. But even in GaW you should have to at least attack SOMETHING to be able to do the same thing. The fact that you can just drive on by and wave is very ahistorical to say the least. So I am REALLY hopeful this gets addressed soon in a patch. Especially since I (and likely others) were hoping for a PC in a real historical setting. You have 2 out of three, historical maps and PC mechanics. Now if you can get a better historical behavior for how you need to attack units not in VP hexes and no resupply anywhere you want, we will be good

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 33

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/29/2013 9:39:15 PM

produit

Posts: 393
Joined: 8/4/2012
Status: offline

Played a part of the campaign, AGS until Rostov. In comparison to Panzer Corps, I feel that this game is really harder. I used perhaps too many pricey units, thus increasing the cost of reinforcement. Moreover, a scenario such as Crimea is quite tough. You really have to stick to objectives if you want to achieve victory.

On the other side, this game is really on another scale as Decisive Campaign or WiTE. The last two are so much more complicated and in this game, scenario are quite fast. On this aspect of fast to play and having to find the right strategy, this game make me also think about Unity of Command also.

On a graphical aspect and easiness of handling the UI, explanation of the concepts and rules, the game is worse on my point of view as PC. But it has a flavor that PC does not have.

Finally, the game crashed some 10 times in 10 hours of play, mostly when I am going into the objectives or army screen. Hoping that patches will solve this.

(in reply to rodney727)

Post #: 34

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 12:27:07 AM

colberki

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

The secret is out. WiTE is the most realistic Eastern Front game. But GaW is more realistic albeit is my subjective view than PC any day and stays more true to Panzer General. But kudos to Matrix/Slitherine for having a game for everyone in the Eastern Front space. Clearly PC had many fans. I hope the same will be the case GaW.

(in reply to produit)

Post #: 35

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 5:51:12 AM

Ronald Wendt

Posts: 1880
Joined: 6/8/2009
Status: offline

Hello,

quote:

ORIGINAL: produit
Finally, the game crashed some 10 times in 10 hours of play, mostly when I am going into the objectives or army screen. Hoping that patches will solve this.

no one experienced this during beta. If this happens again, could you please secure a savegame and the logs directly after the crash and send it to us (either at wendt@anvil-soft.com or as attachment in the forum).

Savegames are here:

C:\Users\YourName\Saved Games\Germany at War

Logs are here:

C:\Users\YourName\AppData\Local\Germany at War

And could you please state your systems specifiation:

OS, RAM, CPU and graphics card ?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

_____________________________

Ronald Wendt
Phobetor website
Phobetor on Facebook

(in reply to produit)

Post #: 36

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 11:18:11 AM

ComradeP

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Which is why as the scale got smaller in GaW from WitE more Regiments/Brigades should have been added versus keeping everything in divisions. A division had a frontage of about 10k iirc. So a division at the scale of GaW should be spread over two hexes instead of still being in one. This would make things in GaW work far better and more realisticly than they do now for both sides.

So far this is the biggest flaw in the game to me (along with the ridiculous movement rate of AC). The scale doubled from WitE but the unit density stayed the same. So that there is no reason to attack except the VP hexes since you can get through the lines without any problem. I have stopped playing the campaigns because of this. The scenario's seem much better in this regard. But as I bought the mainly for the campaigns, that does not do much for me.

Your earlier post about not having to attack every unit in WitE to break through the lines is correct. But even in GaW you should have to at least attack SOMETHING to be able to do the same thing. The fact that you can just drive on by and wave is very ahistorical to say the least. So I am REALLY hopeful this gets addressed soon in a patch. Especially since I (and likely others) were hoping for a PC in a real historical setting. You have 2 out of three, historical maps and PC mechanics. Now if you can get a better historical behavior for how you need to attack units not in VP hexes and no resupply anywhere you want, we will be good

Making it a regiment(/brigade)/battalion level game would at the least triple the number of units. That's sort of the problem with scale in wargames: if you go down one unit size level, the number of units is generally at the least tripled. Maybe there will be a mod for that in the future.

As to getting through lines without any problem: that's mostly something the Panzer divisions can do, and it can indeed feel a bit gamey in some instances, but in the case of a breakthrough there would be little to nothing to stop them for a significant distance during an actual battle as well, unless the enemy has reserves. In the opening scenarios, the Soviets have few reserves, because most of their units are at the frontline or close to it.

quote:

Again not to pick on this poster but really now... What do you expect ? Whole panzer divisions that have only one panzer type? Sounds like PC to me. While I have only played three sen. In this I am TOTALY turned off by the unrealistic feel of this game. Sure the units have names. Big deal!!!

If a wargame doesn't feature individual elements, the unit will always be resembled by its most common equipment type. If you feel that is unacceptable, maybe you should play a game/series that includes individual unit elements instead of single units (like WitE, Decisive Campaigns or TOAW).

_____________________________

SSG tester
WitE Alpha tester
Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to Ronald Wendt)

Post #: 37

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 4:42:38 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Which is why as the scale got smaller in GaW from WitE more Regiments/Brigades should have been added versus keeping everything in divisions. A division had a frontage of about 10k iirc. So a division at the scale of GaW should be spread over two hexes instead of still being in one. This would make things in GaW work far better and more realisticly than they do now for both sides.

You'll notice in GAW that divisions, brigades and battalions do behave differently in terms of how the combat system works, but I agree that divisions would work better with a larger zone of control. That was discussed in development, but could not fit into this release as it is a major change to many systems. I expect that we will in the future "upgrade" divisions to allow them to affect a larger area, but the existing scenarios play quite well with the current system.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 38

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 4:44:27 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
Again not to pick on this poster but really now... What do you expect ? Whole panzer divisions that have only one panzer type? Sounds like PC to me. While I have only played three sen. In this I am TOTALY turned off by the unrealistic feel of this game. Sure the units have names. Big deal!!!

I'm not sure I understand the critique here. I believe you enjoy Panzer Corps. This was billed and is a more realistic version of the Panzer General / Panzer Corps style gameplay. It is a similar game though - this is not War in the East or Decisive Campaigns and was never made out to be something other than what it is. The units not only have realistic names but also realistic sizes, attachments and upgrades and a consistent map scale and appropriate movement, fuel and supply, along with a realistic branching campaign.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to rodney727)

Post #: 39

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 4:46:14 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi Produit,

quote:

ORIGINAL: produit
Finally, the game crashed some 10 times in 10 hours of play, mostly when I am going into the objectives or army screen. Hoping that patches will solve this.

Sorry about that - if you have any information on those crashes, please post it for us in the tech support forum and we'll fix them ASAP. We also posted a new public beta update yesterday.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to produit)

Post #: 40

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 8:23:00 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
Which is why as the scale got smaller in GaW from WitE more Regiments/Brigades should have been added versus keeping everything in divisions. A division had a frontage of about 10k iirc. So a division at the scale of GaW should be spread over two hexes instead of still being in one. This would make things in GaW work far better and more realisticly than they do now for both sides.

You'll notice in GAW that divisions, brigades and battalions do behave differently in terms of how the combat system works, but I agree that divisions would work better with a larger zone of control. That was discussed in development, but could not fit into this release as it is a major change to many systems. I expect that we will in the future "upgrade" divisions to allow them to affect a larger area, but the existing scenarios play quite well with the current system.

Regards,

- Erik

I agree that the several scenarios I have played so far have worked very well. With some minor glitches that I have sent in that will (or have been) addressed. But as my purchase was totally based on the campaigns, the game as it stands now is not meeting what I was lead to believe it would provide.

As I have stated before, I am still reserving judgment on whether my purchase was a waste or not as I am hopeful that you will implement the changes you suggested above.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 41

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 10:13:29 PM

rodney727

Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline

While I do like this game and I have spent more than a decade researching the german order of battle in ww2. I don't think you want to get into a debate into "unit sizes and attachments". Please define appropriate movement fuel and supply to me in this game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
Again not to pick on this poster but really now... What do you expect ? Whole panzer divisions that have only one panzer type? Sounds like PC to me. While I have only played three sen. In this I am TOTALY turned off by the unrealistic feel of this game. Sure the units have names. Big deal!!!

I'm not sure I understand the critique here. I believe you enjoy Panzer Corps. This was billed and is a more realistic version of the Panzer General / Panzer Corps style gameplay. It is a similar game though - this is not War in the East or Decisive Campaigns and was never made out to be something other than what it is. The units not only have realistic names but also realistic sizes, attachments and upgrades and a consistent map scale and appropriate movement, fuel and supply, along with a realistic branching campaign.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 42

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 10:36:00 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi Numdydar,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar
I agree that the several scenarios I have played so far have worked very well. With some minor glitches that I have sent in that will (or have been) addressed. But as my purchase was totally based on the campaigns, the game as it stands now is not meeting what I was lead to believe it would provide.

Please feel free to start a thread on areas where you feel the campaign falls short, if you have not already. We'll respond and if possible, address your concerns.

quote:

As I have stated before, I am still reserving judgment on whether my purchase was a waste or not as I am hopeful that you will implement the changes you suggested above.

I certainly hope you will not consider it a waste, but I'm not sure how divisions having or not having a larger zone of control is that big of a deal, considering the gameplay works well without and the scenarios were designed with that in mind.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 43

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/30/2013 10:38:09 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi Rogo727,

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogo727
While I do like this game and I have spent more than a decade researching the german order of battle in ww2. I don't think you want to get into a debate into "unit sizes and attachments". Please define appropriate movement fuel and supply to me in this game.

I think we're talking past each other a bit - this game does not claim to be War in the East. Even War in the East has some concessions for gameplay at the cost of realism. This is a Panzer General / Panzer Corps style game that is more realistic/historical than those games and that is the only context in which realism or historical accuracy were discussed.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to rodney727)

Post #: 44

RE: Any first impressions?? - 7/31/2013 1:07:50 AM

colberki

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline

I think ZOCs as is now are fine. Else Barbarossa opening could end up like trench warfare. Already by the time of the AGC Smolensk scenario Germans are no longer moving anything as freely. ZOC on steroids could lead to trench war mobility.