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Korsun Pocket Campaign AAR - 1/13/2003 6:43:31 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Hi all.

With the game's development progressing along rapidly, I thought I would share with you over the next couple of weeks some AAR's of a game I am playing with a fellow tester Josan so you can see for yourselves the challenges that lie in store!

Please bear in mind that we are still testing the game at this point so please don't ask me stuff you know I can't answer :( Having said that I will try to help you with queries you may have. Till the game is released then I hope these pages will whet the appetite - it will be well worth the wait.

Brubaker

----------------------------------------------------------------

This is the full campaign game played at normal settings. In this game Josan is playing the embattled German and I the all conquering Russian forces. I have some revenge to wreak on Josan that is way overdue from previous battles :) I have been brushing up on my tactics and intend to litter the battlefield with Wehrmacht corpses!


The map below is the in game strategic map that resides in the top right hand corner of the display. It displays the entire battle area at a glance and can be used for zooming in quickly to a given location. I have cut it out and enlarged it here a little for you. The front lines are displayed in red, German forces in light blue and Russian in yellow. Note the concentration of my eager forces to the east! The west side of the map is clear at present as my forces are due to appear on turn 3.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn1b.gif[/IMG]

The intention of the campaign of course is to form a pocket in which the entrapped German forces will be crushed! This pocket is located around the city of Korsun which I have highlighted with a cross. I have drawn in two yellow arrows to show you my approximate intended line of travel with the junction of armoured spearheads at Zvenigorodka - as happened in real life. Of course whether my opponent allows this to happen is another thing...

Of note is the small pocket of Russian forces (red ring) lying encircled behind the German lines to the west. These forces remain from a failed Russian offensive prior to this campaign and are protecting a small supply dump that keeps them alive. This pocket will no doubt become a natural target for my western relief forces, who will then push on to the main objective of linking up and forming the Korsun Pocket.



To begin with however the assault starts in the east with the massive concentration of soviet armour and infantry, not to mention the pre-registered artillery strikes. The latter is represented ingame by some massive bonuses for the Russians early on and I intend to use them full well against my German friend.

The screenshot below shows you a small portion of the battle map to the east where the heaviest attacks have begun. Again I have drawn in yellow arrows to indicate my main line of attack. Slatopol is a critical early objective as it will then form a bridgehead across the river obstacle. Slightly to the north of that I can see myself using the path between the forests where the clear ground will suit my armour - of which I have plenty. Further to the north near Zerdyukovka my forces are conducting offensive recon in order to unbalance the defenders and stop them moving south and blocking the travel of my armour.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn1a.gif[/IMG]

The main hiccup in my plan will be the 3rd Panzer Division who though in a severely weakened state is entrenched across my armoured axis of travel. I have no doubt however that this division will retreat at full speed in the German turn or face encirclement and annihilation shortly after. With the line pierced in so many places, and Russian armour stacking up at those gaps, I expect the German Commander to retreat his panzer division to the nearest area of safety, out of range of my heavy artillery and behind an obstacle that will provide some defensive benefit. This will likely be behind the river indicated by the red line, with a further retreat as necessary to the pink line to the west. At any rate, I intend to give him no respite and will harass these panzer units as much as possible.

Finally, if you are wondering why some of my units are coloured brown, this is because Stavka have instructed me not to give too much away to my foe (beyond what I have already). What units lie beneath those covers? We shall see next turn once the German move is in place.

Brubaker
Post #: 1
- 1/13/2003 6:45:38 PM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		This is a fully sanctioned AAR from Matrix. So don't think he has gone and blown his NDA. :D

_____________________________

Ross Moorhouse

Project Manager
www.csosimtek.com
Email: rossm@csogroup.org

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 2
- 1/13/2003 7:16:27 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

Thanks for the AAR! It's a good thing to have before the game comes out...any update on that Ross?:)

Cheers
Dan

_____________________________


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Post #: 3
KP Campaign Turn 2 - 1/13/2003 7:18:12 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Turn 2 of my offensive and I am eager to march on. I need to clear the enemy frontline first so I can deploy all my armour and cavalry - the fastest units on the map. Here then is the eastern front line after the German move. As you can see Josan has (unwisely?) chosen to move all available units to the front to close the gaps I created. I am hoping he has done this to his peril because as I have said previously the Russian receives some massive artillery bonuses in the first few turns and it is not difficult to launch overwhelming attacks against the German early on.

Having said that I have ringed the units that I feel are most vulnerable to my forces. All four units of the 3rd Panzer are extremely weak at present as are the two infantry regiments (stacked together) deployed amongst them. I am going to try and deploy as much artillery to the front as possible and attack using the 29th and 20th armoured brigades plus support troops. The terrain beyond them is ideal for my armour...

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn2a.gif[/IMG]

These two screenshots show you the pop-up dialogues that I can access by right clicking on an enemy unit. These are two of the regiments I oppose. In the attack above the 6th Panzer regiment suffered no losses - they being entrenched behind a river was just too strong to overcome. The 3rd Panzer recon battalion however took 1 loss (the red skull) which leaves it with only one 'step' of strength left. Note that the terrain each is deployed in (bottom left corner) are now heavy with obstruction. This will abate over time but will serve to slow me for a while.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn2c.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn2d.gif[/IMG]

Here is the same section of map after my attacks. I have succeeded in destroying the 394th motorised infantry regiment 3rd Panzer, as well as one of the 106th infantry regiments. The 3rd Panzer recon battalion has also been forced back with loss. Most importantly of all though is the 8th Army supply truck that was deployed close to the line. With this gone it will become harder for Josan to supply his front line, particularly in the short term. Surely now a general retreat will take place?

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn2b.gif[/IMG]

If you are wondering why I didn't advance into these gaps immediately, it is because what you cannot see on the screenshot above is the terrain under the units. Here is a shot that has the units ('U' keyboard shortcut) removed. Note that although I destroyed a nice section of outposts and forts, there are still large quantities of enemy mines (skull and crossbones) deployed beneath. These have the effect of slowing all movement to a crawl and stopping supplies altogether. A hazard that must be cleared before moving on further. Of note also is the heavy terrain deformation that has been caused by the artillery involved in the battles.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn2e.gif[/IMG]

Mines are represented by 3 differing levels of obstruction and each of these has an icon slightly lighter in colour than the previous. Therefore the darkest icon on the map is at 'full strength' ie. level 3, the lighter blue icons are level 2, and the very light is level 1. Mines are cleared (decreased in level) by friendly units being adjacent to them, with some units being more effective at this than others. I have gone to some trouble to place engineer units in the stacks around this area and they should clear soon enough.


Again I presume that at this point Josan is going to have to retreat from the front line. If he does not I fully expect to destroy 2 more 3rd panzer units next turn which will severely weaken him. Time will tell.

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 4
- 1/14/2003 4:10:35 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Keep em coming!

Whoo! We are on our way!

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 5
- 1/14/2003 7:48:28 AM   
HannoMeier


Posts: 155
Joined: 8/5/2001
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Excellent. I am really waiting for this one. Is it still planned to include the original Ardennes Offensive scenario?

Hanno

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 6
Turn length? - 1/14/2003 8:46:15 AM   
Pawlock

 

Posts: 1041
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: U.K.
Status: offline 		Ok, Im a sortta traiter for playing HPS's version of game with same name, but in saying so Im looking for some comparisons.

Now HPS version , just for a largish scenario( not full campaign ) you can count on 2- 3 hours to do a turn. Now I would imagine the Matrix version a lot quicker due to less counters available, but on average, how long do you guys take to process a turn ? from quickist to your longest?

Also on topic sort of, how many turns is the full campaign game in Matrix version supposed to last?

Anyway guys, great AAR's here, keep up the good work.

p.s Im still planning on buying this as the interface and scale of the game are completly differnt for both games. The TAO interface, i must say is the best I have seen for a wargame of any kind and this alone should be enought for most to at least give it a go :-)

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 7
- 1/14/2003 3:38:57 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		@ Hanno

To the best of my knowledge It is intended to include the TAO2 campaign. I have seen the map and it is beautiful. Of course it will use the new engine which means some units will now have 4 steps etc. It should breathe life into the game as you knopw it.

@Pawlock

You are right in that it does not take 2-3 hours to process a turn :eek:

In the campaign, when playing Russians, the first few turns in particular take around 20-30 mins depending on how intricately you want to control the action. As German however, being far less units to move around, it takes around 10-15 mins. Of course we have played many times over now and sort of know what we intend to do from the beginning, whereas someone new at the game might take a while longer to suss things out a bit.

The full campaign game lasts 48 turns.

Pawlock I agree about the scale and interface. I have played many many of these types of games and find the SSG version the most simplest for the technicality involved. I like the more complex games as well (eg. HPS) but don't always like having to do all the staff work involved. This game lets me concentrate on the strategy.

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 8
KP AAR Turn 3 - 1/14/2003 3:50:53 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Turn 3. True to all great battle plans, Josan is not following my intentions for him :( The German commander continues to frustrate my moves and hangs on to his frontline positions to his (and my) detriment. The picture below shows the map as presented to me for my next turn. As you can see Josan has continued to thin his line and use the spare units to plug holes. His units at the critical point (red circles) now only contain one step each and will certainly be destroyed this turn. This will include the remainder of the 3rd Panzer who are now grouped together. It has become a literal mincing machine and the race is on to see whether he runs out of reinforcements before I do offensive power.

[side note] - A point to note in this game is that the side with overall points gained will win. There are several ways to achieve this. Hanging on to terrain objectives for allocated periods is one way, destroying units is another. By allowing me to kill these units, Josan is unwittingly playing into my hands. Having said that he of course is denying me any terrain objectives. It will certainly be a battle to the end for a points win.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn3a.gif[/IMG]

This is the map after my attacks in this area. Although it may not look much different, in fact the German has had another 5 units destroyed this turn including 2 more regiments of the 3rd Panzer. At this rate though he will stop me linking up with the west early, he will lose so many units the game will be lost. The point value of the panzer forces is very high and the loss of each regiment can be heart breaking.

My main concern now is the release of two panzer divisions from the south (red line). At this stage the entry of those strong units from behind the riverline will make my task even more difficult.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn3b.gif[/IMG]


To the west. My forces have arrived on board in this sector and await their orders! My intention here will not be as initially planned (breakthrough to my surrounded units), because after my experience in the east I can see Josan will make it next to impossible to wade through the front line (red circle). Instead I am opting for a shift to the north where the line is weakest and the terrain more suitable (yellow circle). The yellow arrows indicate my intended attack route.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn3c.gif[/IMG]

Here is a small section of the map after my initial attacks (it was ringed in yellow on the screenshot above). As you can see I have cleared a large section of the frontline and have armoured units sitting in the wings for advance. I now have to wait for Josan to move. I think he will 'load-up' in the north and try to present a solid front line much as he has done in the eastern sector. I only hope I can force a large enough gap to exploit through.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn3d.gif[/IMG]

This is becoming a fearsome contest. In the next turn I intend to move some of my heavy artillery toward the front to get into range of the new German positions. Although this requires sacrificing their use in that turn, it will allow some devastating firepower to be brought to bear the turn after (turn 5).

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 9
- 1/14/2003 7:29:35 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi Brubaker/Ross

I have a question regarding the editor. First of all have you seen it and what is your comment on it?

If you have seen it will I be able to create any type of battle I want (W. Europe, Italy, E.Europe, Pacific, N.Africa) or is it ideal for only Russian/German units with the typical european hexes.

Oh the AAR is great and I want the game even more now.

Dan

_____________________________


(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 10
- 1/14/2003 11:42:12 PM   
Josans


Posts: 1728
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Barcelona (Spain)
Status: offline 		Despite the stand and fight Hitler´s orders the front remains strong!!! The powerful 5th SS Wiking finnaly arrived to close the gaps and attack the soviet spearhead:p

Seig heil.

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 11
- 1/14/2003 11:44:26 PM   
U2


Posts: 3332
Joined: 7/17/2001
From: Västerås,Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Josan
[B]Despite the stand and fight Hitler´s orders the front remains strong!!! The powerful 5th SS Wiking finnaly arrived to close the gaps and attack the soviet spearhead:p

Seig heil. [/B][/QUOTE]

Taking the game too seriusly eh:D

Dan

_____________________________


(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 12
- 1/14/2003 11:52:34 PM   
Josans


Posts: 1728
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Barcelona (Spain)
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by U2
[B]Taking the game too seriusly eh:D

Dan [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh no, I was joking to do the AAR more interesting;) The important now is the hard way of testing, you know:D

Really trying different strategies every game to see how the game develops.

Josan.

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 13
KP AAR Turn 4 - 1/15/2003 7:13:31 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Turn 4 has been a mixed bag for the me the Russian commander. In the Eastern sector the German has received two very strong panzer divisions as reinforcement and has deployed them right in front of my armoured corps. Accordingly I cannot hope to break through them and am faced with a difficult task. Nevertheless I have continued to make strong attacks against his line and destroyed several more steps in the process. All I can do I feel is to keep assaulting, looking for a weakness and then exploiting with everything that is nearby and available. The screenshot below shows the line after my turn.

As you can see my armour is concentrated in the sector right in front of his new panzer units. They have plenty of fast moving cavalry waiting behind them but have to forge a gap first to use them. I will continue to move as much of my artillery forward as possible to support my attacks and continue to hammer my way forward. Surely I can wear him down and force a retreat?

I have continued to succeed in breaking the line to the north and exploited with my 5th airborne division (red ring) - though not enough to panic him yet. This unit now looks to be able to exploit further possibly trapping a lot of german units in a pocket to the south east? I also have cavalry waiting behind this sector so I hope to exploit the slightest error Josan might make. The difficulty of course is the sheer amount of armour he now has deployed in the south, which is but a turn away from shifting north. If you look carefully to the south you can see he has a lot of units to maneovre with and that they are backing into some really good defensive terrain. The trick is going to be to continue to unhinge one sector or another and not allow him to form a cohesive line in both sectors at the same time. It is going to be an arduous task for me I think.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn4a.gif[/IMG]

To the west things look a little brighter for my brave Cossacks however.

The 5th armoured brigade has successfully broken the line to the north and the 5th mechanised brigade has equalled this in the south. Both units have relatively clear terrain in front of them to advance. Having said this the enemy has a lot of stug battalions deployed around my 'pocket' which can be called on for support if he needs them. I really need to force a hole in the line and to exploit more than two units through so as to create a deep chain of units into his rear - something I have yet been able to do. Perhaps here in the open snow near Medvin I can put on my skates? At present there certainly doesn't seem to be any panzer divisions that can come to rescue him - lets hope this doesn't change in the near future.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn4b.gif[/IMG]


Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 14
- 1/19/2003 5:59:36 PM   
peter hellman

 

Posts: 217
Joined: 7/29/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Did you quit the game soldiers? Just keep the AAR's coming, I promise we really are reading:)

And nice attachments :D

_____________________________

"If you want to live in peace, you have to prepare for war" - Adolf Ehrnrooth

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 15
- 1/20/2003 6:40:43 AM   
Capitaine

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
Status: offline 		Definitely reading and [especially] looking at the screenies! :eek: :D

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 16
- 1/20/2003 2:38:48 PM   
Mac_MatrixForum


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/11/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline 		Splendid work. The AAR inspired me to play a game of TAO2 once more :D. I hope there'll be many quick to play scenarios too since they are good when I don't have too much time to spare.

_____________________________

Markku "Macroz" Rontu
"Understanding is a three-edged sword, your side, their side and the truth." - Captain John J. Sheridan, Babylon 5

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 17
- 1/20/2003 4:33:53 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Gents

No, we didn't quit the game :p

After the last AAR I received a new build of the game which had some minor improvements etc. Problem is, a new build cannot use the olf save game files :( Josan and I have begun another game and as soon as it reaches turn 5 I will continue posting.

It will lack a little continuity of course :rolleyes: but overall will be at much the same place.

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 18
- 1/21/2003 4:21:20 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		So, you are practising the opening moves over and over again? You will be an expert at the opening moves!

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 19
Korsun Pocket Campaign Turn 5 - 1/21/2003 8:53:36 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Hi all. After a brief hiatus I present the fifth turn in our campaign.

This turn will appear a little disjointed in continuity because Josan and I had to begin afresh with a new build of the game. Needless to say we are not complaining as the more tweaking that is done the better the final product will be!

One of the most important fixes was in the area of Divisional Integrity. I will discuss this in detail next time and limit this turn to bring you up to date.

Because we started again, I took the liberty of trying a different tactic. Instead of trying to move my armour en mass and bludgeon a hole through the line, I decided to try a more risky technique of blowing small holes and forcing any and all units that had capability through. This technique has been semi-successful as it tends to leave units stranded on their own in no-mans land where they are easy pickings for the powerful german Panzer forces.

The screenshot below shows you the south eastern front at the end of the Russian turn 5. Note the overall gain has been more than the previous game though a little more haphazard. Shpola is clearly within reach and just beyond that (out of sight) is a row of entrenchments which will form the eastern boundary of the pocket (I hope!). Careful observers will note both I (yellow) and Josan (blue) have placed air interdiction behind our respective enemies front lines. This serves to strangle roads of supplies. Obviously I have more to lose than he at this point. The yellow arrows show my intended line of travel.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn5a.gif[/IMG]

The next picture shows the section of line slightly north of the last.

As you can see I have successfully broken this line in a couple of places. My objective is to run my cavalry through as fast as possible and try and reach his bridges before he can retreat over them and blow them. I have large numbers of cavalry in this area (11th and 12th brigades) with attached armour. I have squandered them a little but in the next turn hope to move them deep inside his lines. Out of interest Korsun itself is about 10 or so hexes west of the riverline and forts so you can see what I am trying to do. Josan at this point will need to get to the river before I and set up a defence. Interesting times ahead.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn5b.gif[/IMG]

The last pic is of the western front where things have all but stalled. This time around I decided to try and punch my armour and mechanised units straight through the front (yellow circle)instead of hooking them north east. As you can see this has been successful to a degree but overall failed.

Josan has been counterattcking in the same area and has claimed an armoured unit of mine already :( The amount of deformation on the terrain is awful due to the amount of artillery we are both using and is making rapid movement impossible. I might contemplate at this point withdrawing the armour and sending it north again to try and break through there.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn5c.gif[/IMG]

Till next time.

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 20
- 1/22/2003 4:43:29 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		In the first screen shot, the German supply truck is right up on the front line. Why is it there – its so vulnerable.

The air interdiction markers – is their effect on supply the same as TAO2, or more so or less so?

In TAO2 it was difficult to determine, which rivers could be crossed by armour without a bridge and which could not. I notice that some rivers are much larger than others. Are these points related?

“The amount of deformation on the terrain is awful due to the amount of artillery”. Hmm could be used as a tactic.

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 21
- 1/22/2003 2:01:56 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe 98
[B]In the first screen shot, the German supply truck is right up on the front line. Why is it there – its so vulnerable.

Hi Joe - good wuestions. Keep em coming. Remember though, I have never claimed to be an expert player, but do have an insight into what is in the manual ;)

In these screenshots you can see all of my units as they are taken from my perspective. If you were the german player, you wouldn't be aware they are supply trucks in most cases. That said, I will anser your question :D

As you would know Joe, attacks are nearly always best made with a road in support. This is becasue if a supply truck is on a road its 'reach' is that much more. A supply truck of course has to be able to trace back to a supply head.

In the thrust from the East, the point I am at only has one or maybe two decent roads that link back to a supply head. This is severaly limiting the reach of my supply trucks. On top of that Josan has left behind detachments (very light blue armed men icons in the first screenshot) on one of my roads in his retreat, as well as put air interdiction on a major intersection in the area as well. This is having the effect of choking the supply to my trucks (and thereofre combat units). On top of that I just noticed a downed bridge as well :mad:.

So what this is forcing me to do is move my trucks closer to the front line than I would like. The one to the south you are speaking of is actually on the only clear road I own at present. I will try and change that this turn.

quote:

The air interdiction markers – is their effect on supply the same as TAO2, or more so or less so?


Hmm, can't quite remember what they do in TAO2 but in Korsun what they do is place a movement penalty in any given hex. This movement penalty slows both movement (duh!) and more importantly supply. By placing his interdiction where he did he is choking off the supply to my point units :(

Out of interest the reason I placed mine where I did was to try and stop him forming a decent defence in Shpola.

Another quick point. An interdiction marker is placed in a single hex. If the hex is a road hex the interdiction will 'creep' to other road hexes which is what you are seeing in the picture referred to. You can see on 'his side' where I have placed my interdiction how it has covered nearly the whole of Shpola.

quote:

In TAO2 it was difficult to determine, which rivers could be crossed by armour without a bridge and which could not. I notice that some rivers are much larger than others. Are these points related?


In TAO2 it is true the original map was a little unclear. Peter Fisla's mod fixed this though. In Korsun, the rivers are much better defined. You are correct in saying that tracked and mechaised forces cannot cross a large river without a bridge. Having said that,there is no shortage of bridges. But definately blowing specific structures will cause the enemy a severe problem.

If this sounds a little generalised, the fact is that to know exactly what unit can cross any given terrain you would need to study its movement ability, factors that would slow it down, terrain costs etc. No one actually would do this during a game. Armed with the knowledge that armour can only cross a major river via a brdge, you would keep that in mind whilst advancing.

Personally when I move units I simply select them and then study the shading that occurs to infdicate where they can go and where they can't.

quote:

“The amount of deformation on the terrain is awful due to the amount of artillery”. Hmm could be used as a tactic. [/B][/QUOTE]

This is no doubt true. Trouble is though, there are expert players out there that can perform a devastating attack without leaving too many craters (I am looking at you Matthew!) so you can't rely on deformation to slow them down. Against player like Matthew you have to pick up your bags and run for your life ;)

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 22
- 1/22/2003 5:49:16 PM   
Von Dodenburg

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/22/2001
Status: offline 		Great thread and very interesting to read. Can´t wait for this game to be released :)

A couple of questions though. I noticed that the pop-up dialogue when you right click on units has been vastly improved, and from that screenshot you provided it seems that several changes has been done.

Firstly, it seems that units now can have 4 steps in strength, is this only for the germans? To reflect the fact that the german units is more experienced and disciplined, or is it somehing only Elite units can have?

Secondly, I noticed that the pop-up dialogue now shows if the unit has artillery support, shown by the little cannon, and I guess that the little tank right besides the cannon must mean that a new shift bonus has been introduced, namely the armor shift bonus. Am I right about this one? If so, how does it work?
Does one get the armor bonus in all sort of terrains?
Will anti-tank regiments have a special anti-tank shift? And if so, will infantry then be more effective against an anti-tank unit?
And since a new shift bonus has been introduced, is there any more new shift bonuses that are introduced?

Thirdly, In the screenshot it also shows that one now can stack up to four units in one hex (indicated by the four boxes in the vertical column), but what are the boxes in the Horizontal column for? It seems that the first box shows the terrain the unit(s) are in, but what about the empty boxes?

Fourthly, I guess that the 50% marker that shows up besides the divisional symbol indicates the units divisional bonus? If so, that is good news for all of us who have all that info on paper in the TAO2 game. :rolleyes: ;)

And lastly, the icon in the middle of the pop-up dialogue (the red circle with the detonator in it), what exactly does it mean? Does it mean that every unit has only one charge to blow up bridges with? Or does it implicate that it is only certain units that can blow up bridges, and if so which units?

A lot of questions, but I hope you can find the time to answer at least a few of them :)

_____________________________

//Peter N (Von Dodenburg)

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 23
- 1/23/2003 12:05:37 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Peter - thanks for the interest.

I think much of what you want to know I have explained in the next AAR but here is a bit more.

[QUOTE][B]Firstly, it seems that units now can have 4 steps in strength, is this only for the germans? To reflect the fact that the german units is more experienced and disciplined, or is it somehing only Elite units can have?

Both sides have units of 4 steps - in fact this is now the new basic unit. It doesn't represent an elite unit but I think more the size of a unit. There are still plenty of 3's, 2's, and 1's.

Elite units are signified slightly differently and get a bonus in attack and defence.

quote:

Secondly, I noticed that the pop-up dialogue now shows if the unit has artillery support, shown by the little cannon, and I guess that the little tank right besides the cannon must mean that a new shift bonus has been introduced, namely the armor shift bonus. Am I right about this one? If so, how does it work?
Does one get the armor bonus in all sort of terrains?
Will anti-tank regiments have a special anti-tank shift? And if so, will infantry then be more effective against an anti-tank unit?



I think you are referring to the new shock/anti-shock bonus which I have discussed in the next AAR.


quote:

And since a new shift bonus has been introduced, is there any more new shift bonuses that are introduced?


Not that I can think of but if I do I'll let you know :confused:

quote:

Thirdly, In the screenshot it also shows that one now can stack up to four units in one hex (indicated by the four boxes in the vertical column), but what are the boxes in the Horizontal column for? It seems that the first box shows the terrain the unit(s) are in, but what about the empty boxes?


4 units per hex yes, plus a fort if any. Units stack on the left hand side of the pop-up and moving the mouse over them brings up their info. ALong the bottom is for forts, objectives, mines, reinforcement etc and moving the mouse over them does the same. There is room there for other stuff if wanted I guess.

quote:

I guess that the 50% marker that shows up besides the divisional symbol indicates the units divisional bonus? If so, that is good news for all of us who have all that info on paper in the TAO2 game. :rolleyes: ;)


I have discussed this too in the next AAR.

quote:

And lastly, the icon in the middle of the pop-up dialogue (the red circle with the detonator in it), what exactly does it mean? Does it mean that every unit has only one charge to blow up bridges with? Or does it implicate that it is only certain units that can blow up bridges, and if so which units?


The red icon indicates a bridge hex that may be blown by an appropriate unit. Which units can? Most. In the pop up dialogue we have been speaking about there is a little symbol of an engineer if the unit is capable.

regards

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 24
Korsun AAR Turn 6 - 1/23/2003 12:34:08 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Turn 6 of the campaign and things are hotting up. My armoured units in the south, though wedged into a small area by Josan's panzers, are destroying on average two panzer units per turn. This was no exception and a Wiking unit was eradicated in this turn.

I am nearly at Shpola :D I am probably 1/2 way to making a link up at Zven.... but thanks to Josan's defence this is taking me far longer than I would like. If you study the screenshot you will see I have some serious artillery in support of my tanks and this if nothing else will break his line (how long have I been saying that? :rolleyes: )

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn6a.gif[/IMG]

The area north of this action is finally opening up as well. I didn't take a suitable screenshot unfortunately though the rant on Divisional Integrity that follows does contain one that may show you what is happening.

In the west Josan is counterattacking strongly in the south but I have followed this up with a stronger attack of my own. I have succeeded in breaking the line but not with enough strength to panic him, yet...

I have placed a type of interdiction called partisans behind some of his units to try and trap them. This type of interdiction is far more localised than air interdiction and acts much the same way.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn6c.gif[/IMG]

The next two pictures show you the new divisional integrity feature. If you study the first pic you will see I have a regiment of the 11th cavalry division selected. There are three other brigades in this division and they have a green outline around them.

To receive a divisional integrity bonus ALL units of a division must be within 5 hexes of each other. Note in the picture they are not. The yellow arrow on the right shows the normal strengths of 8 attack, 9 defence and below that a little divisional symbol in red. This is red because my units are not within 5 hexes of each other. The +3 indicates the bonues I can receive if I have integrity.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn6d.gif[/IMG]

Now look at the next pic. I have moved the other three units and they are close enough to each other now to get integrity. Note the divisional indicator is now green, and that both the attack and defence strengths have been upped by 3! Cool huh :D

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn6e.gif[/IMG]

This last picture shows the pop-up when you right click on a map hex. Everything about a hex can be seen on this pop-up. At present I have the mouse cursor over a tank unit. Some of the different things you can see are

a) what the different strengths will be as the unit loses steps (top line is 3, 2nd line is 2 and the bottom line is if there is only 1 step left,

b) The red circle with the plunger indicates the unit is capable of blowing bridges and the construction symbol means it can dig in,

c) Its movement capability and value (to the enemy) if destroyed

and other stuff.

A most interesting thing for me is the little tank and gun symbols. These are indicative of a new concept called shock (and anti-shock). Very basically, if a unit is capable of shock (the tank symbol) it will receive that bonus in attack. In the case below the full strength unit would receive a +2 bonus. The bonus is not a CRT shift, it is added directly onto a dice roll ! So you can see how important that unit then becomes in an attack.

Many units have an anti-shock capability. This is the small gun symbol. In the example below the tank unit at full strength has a +1 anti-shoch capability. This is use din defence to, you guessed it, counter shock.

On top of this many terrain elements also have an anti-shock capability which needs to be taken into account when palcing units.

This shock feature is an excllent addition which really makes some combats against weaker units on clear terrain absolutely devastating!

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn6b.gif[/IMG]

Till next time

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 25
- 1/23/2003 7:31:13 PM   
Tbone3336

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 11/26/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Great reading! All these enhancements (shock value and such) make an already great game even more anticipated. Thanks again for taking the time to whet our appetite for the game.

_____________________________

We aim to please, unless there is a clear headshot.

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 26
- 1/24/2003 2:01:47 PM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Hi all. Thanks for the positive comments. I must say I absolutely love this game and cannot wait for you all to get it so we can have some email matches!

Turn 7

Josan is a clever swine :p He has so far frustrated all attempts to create a pocket and continues to do so :(

He is using a method of 'sliding' his best panzer units along the front to the tip of the spear each time (and blunting it :( ). Fortunately I have plenty of armour present so am able to rotate them through the tip and keep the pressure on. I am hoping to win an attritional battle at this place. Time will tell if this will work.

Meanwhile the constant shifting of units produces gaps to the north. The screenshot below shows where I have slipped uits of a cavalry division into a position where it may flank the northern line. My goal is to get to the bridges before he does and trap some of those grenadiers in the wastelands.

Note: You can just see Korsun on the other side of the river - so close but so far!

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn7a.gif[/IMG]

To the east and the enemy again has frustrated attempts to get through the front line. In the last turn I managed to force some armour through the front line but strong counterattacks cut this off. In this turn I reopened that whole and slipped the armour back into safety :eek:

I am working on flanking this area however.

In the north a similar situation is developing to the eastern front whereby the enemy is running out of men to defend. I have units ready to exploit in this place and intend to do so.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn7c.gif[/IMG]

Till next time.

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 27
- 1/24/2003 2:41:32 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Why do the objectives held by the Germans have Russian flags?

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 28
- 1/26/2003 4:06:09 AM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe 98
[B]Why do the objectives held by the Germans have Russian flags? [/B][/QUOTE]

HI Joe

Sorry to take so ong to get back to you but I am clarifying a couple of points before I respond. I promise as soon as I know this info I will answer your question.

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 29
Korsun Pocket AAR Turn 8 - 1/26/2003 4:21:45 AM   
BrubakerII


Posts: 538
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Adelaide Australia
Status: offline 		Finally some tangible results!

To date Josan has done a brilliant job holding off the massive armoured forces allied against him in the south. These armoured forces were designed to thrust across his rear and cut off a huge salient based on Korsun. What Josan has achieved is to stop that salient closing, but this is having the effect of leaving the northern reaches open for exploitation.

The (large) screenshot below shows the eastern side of the conflict. As you can see the Germans contine to mass amrour to the south to hold back my tanks, but in the north I am moving very quickly now. The 11th Cavalry Brigade and other units have successfully got in behind the Germans northern wing and areset to attack across the bridges into the Korsun region. It appears as though many German units will be trapped on the wrong side of the river at this point.

To the south I have begun to withdraw the 20th Armoured Brigade from the front in order to move it either north or south (as yet undecided). It has taken me longer than it should to realise I am simply wasting my best units together in this are. If I spread the three armoured brigade across the front (still concentrating individual units together), I will force the German to break up his tank strengtha little. I hope.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn8a.gif[/IMG]

The following picture is of the western wing. I continue to thrust holes in the line and Josan continues to close them up again. The real change is happenning o the north (just off screen) where my units are advancing virtually unopposed toward Korsun. I will concentrate my screenshots inthis area next turn.

[IMG]http://users.esc.net.au/~ooyeah/Forumpic/Korsun/Turn8b.gif[/IMG]

Brubaker

(in reply to BrubakerII)
Post #: 30
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