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RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 4:15:16 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

There are some AARs which have just started and many older ones by vets above. Start a couple, find one which suits you and compare notes. Plenty of "tactical" advice is always here. Strategic insight is also well cited by several players. I don't want to recommend one myself because I read half a dozen for different reasons. There are the "classic" ones which players with intimate knowledge of the system itself max out the game on one hand, and others, "romantic" (that's you guys LADM Sprior and Capt'n Mandrake) which provide an alternate side of the war.



So, if it's ok to ask, which are the elite AAR (players) to look at? I'd prefer to leverage some of their vast knowledge to prevent my arse getting kicked around for 3-4 years

Don't know about elite, but I've got an AAR going: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2966329&go=last

We're in mid-July '43.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 61
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 4:47:23 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

So what do people think I should do with all the B18 Bolo MB? Train them for?


ASW is big. Naval search is big; for the US the army really needs to take over as much search responsiblity as it can, early on. Later, it needs to assume the greater part of the ASW workload.

Eventually, though, ground attack will become a greater and greater concern, and you should keep that in mind. Develop some kind of ground attack crew reserve from early on. They will primarily be used in airfield and port attacks late in '42 and through much of '43.

Cross training might seem like a good strategy, but it only takes a week to clean out a squadron and replace the crews with people with a different skill set. The important thing is to train crews to be in the 70+ proficiency range in something. You have virtually unlimited resources as far as the replacement pool goes (if you're the US).

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 62
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 5:34:47 AM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the advice and answers to my questions. I'm so overwhelmed with all the help, a good thing!

So does anybody see the value in going 'general' training for air units? Seems like most people's advice is to specialize the air groups?

I noticed there's a good deal of transport ships in India area and Aussieland. What should I be doing with these? Besides keep most safe and maybe others (DEI stuff) to make supply runs to PI and SI?

Oh BTW what does 'OZ' stand for? Seen it referenced in a few posted, but don't know the reference city/area?

Thanks again all!

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 63
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 5:50:49 AM   
Quixote


Posts: 773
Joined: 8/14/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		1. Oz is the abbreviation for Australia.

2. I've yet to see anyone advocate for General Training over picking the skill(s) you want to train yourself. (Someone will now surprise me by doing just that, but most folks seem to prefer to hand-pick their skills.)

3. Send those transports with supplies and reinforcements to areas you think will be threatened in a month or so - not to areas that are threatened right now. If you do the latter, they will get there too late, and probably get sunk.

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 64
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 12:48:39 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Why would anyone want a fighter pilot to be trained in transport aircraft? I think if you put a pilot in general training for 2 years he still wouldn't be good at anything. Carrier bomber pilots are the worst. They really need to be proficient in 2 or 3 different skills (if you leave out ground attack) and it takes a good while to get them there. As an Allied player, pilot training is the most time consuming part of the play.

(in reply to Quixote)
Post #: 65
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 1:19:54 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote
I've yet to see anyone advocate for General Training over picking the skill(s) you want to train yourself. (Someone will now surprise me by doing just that, but most folks seem to prefer to hand-pick their skills.)


I only use "general training" in a very contrived circumstance. I've more pilot trainees for my transport aircraft groups (and training groups) than I know what to do with. When I'm full of those trainees, I'll dump 'em into General Reserve. Thereafter, I'll train them up on "transport" to meet my needs and then start them on General training. Why? So they can continue to build their experience per se. After their experience gets into the mid-50s or low 60s, they can be: 1. dumped into General Reserve and 2. Recruited into a fighter training group for A2A combat. This serves to maintain a high experience level on fighter pilots-a valued subset of training.

_____________________________


(in reply to Quixote)
Post #: 66
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/22/2013 4:20:30 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		I have no testing done with it, but I have inkling that General Training might raise Exp bit faster than specific training. Again, just feeling, no proof.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 67
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/23/2013 11:21:29 PM   
jzardos


Posts: 662
Joined: 3/15/2011
Status: offline 		So what are the most important attributes for a sub capt? The main ship/sub page displays 'Leadership' and 'Inspiration'. Are those the most important? Should I be spending PP to put good sub commanders in my boats? Just my good boats

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 68
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/23/2013 11:51:03 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		All subs are good subs for the Allies, dud rate or not. What other asset do you have that can operate offensively deep in enemy territory, reporting the occasional capital ship ("Wow, SHokoku is there?!") and rare put a fish into something that makes ugly gurgling sounds as it's breaking up. Replacing substandard sub commanders is indeed a high PP priority for many players.

The Allies are chronically short of PP as far into the game as I've every played, making prioritizing a critical job.

The first order of business is to accumulate the big stockpiles that allow you to buy critical units when needed (or as soon as possible).

Even while your banking PPs, though, there are a zillion "cheap" expenditures that you'd like to make. You can't, or you'll always be broke, but some of the priorities of some players (well, moi) might look like this:

1. Replace Chinese leaders for any units about to be involved in major combat in a critical hex.
2. Attend to critical TF commanders (carriers and important combat TFs believed to be venturing into harm's way)
3. Sub commanders.
4. Key support personel in vital hexes (for instance, major unit commanders in Singapore plus - for me - the AA commanders).
5. Some of the CD units/etc. that need to go forward to garrison your "bulwarks and breakwaters."
6. Engineers needed to build bases.
7. Restricted aircraft needed at the front.

How we Allied players ever have enough, I dunno. But I darn sure make sure not to fritter away points by failing to withdraw shps or squadrons.

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 69
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/24/2013 2:27:13 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		CR's comments are wise and valuable, but OT. Changing sub commanders costs nearly nothing and is more important than a lot of other things, like the time you spend on your pilots. Maximum aggression! Accept nothing less than a >60 aggressiveness. That's all.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 70
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/24/2013 4:33:48 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

CR's comments are wise and valuable, but OT. Changing sub commanders costs nearly nothing and is more important than a lot of other things, like the time you spend on your pilots. Maximum aggression! Accept nothing less than a >60 aggressiveness. That's all.


Aggression is good, but may waste torpedoes... The thread with a year's worth of sub data (was it from topeverest?) is informative. If there's any sort of positive correlation between Nav skill and torpedoes used, I think favoring Nav over Aggr is good.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 71
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/26/2013 4:16:23 PM   
tiemanjw

 

Posts: 580
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		Studying sub results from 1941-1942, the answer is leadership followed by aggression. The corolation for success was highest with leadership, high with aggression, and even higher when you added the 2 togeather. Try to have the sum above 115. Nav skill had no corolation (except that good leadership, and good nav skill ted to come togeather), however I just read somewhere that it influences not getting spotted and ability to get away when spotted, so I guess don't ignore it.

As for corolations with torp usage, there is a decent one for nav skill (higher skill is fewer torps), but a better one with aggression. So if you are concerned with torp expenditure, higher aggression is your friend. That said, the fleet boats don't miss often, and with their high dud rate I want them to shoot more torpedos, but alas, I can't order them to do that.

< Message edited by tiemanj -- 8/26/2013 4:23:08 PM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 72
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/26/2013 4:25:44 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


Aggression is good, but may waste torpedoes...


US torps are wasted before they're even loaded on the boat. Ramming speed!

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 73
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 12:06:39 AM   
steamboateng


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: somewhere in Massachusetts
Status: offline 		I would think that NAV skill increases with the commanders experience. At least I hope so. I would als think Commanders with high NAV skill are less prone to ASW attack, but I can't prove it.

_____________________________


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 74
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 1:36:56 AM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


Aggression is good, but may waste torpedoes...


US torps are wasted before they're even loaded on the boat. Ramming speed!

LCDR Freeman wants to differ with you. He is not a really good commander, just good enough.

January 21, 1942
Sub attack near Sangi at 78,96

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
DD Amatsukaze

Allied Ships
SS Skipjack

SS Skipjack launches 4 torpedoes at CVL Ryujo
Skipjack diving deep ....
DD Amatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Amatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Amatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Amatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Amatsukaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.” ― Lucius Annaeus Seneca

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 75
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 1:48:45 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Just wondering if anybody could help me with a few short and long term action items to do as allies after the Dec 7th, 1941 nightmare turn.

Some of my questions are around
- best way to defend Singapore
- bets way to defend Philippines
- what to do with CV fleets in action and CV in west coast.
- do I get more supply in west coast? Surprise to low supply levels there to start scenario.
- what to do with ships in PH (damaged and non-damaged), Japan makes a 2nd strike?

Any and all advice and or links to what I'm guessing has been asked before is much appreciated.

Thanks!


Well, first of all, I suggest you modify the thread title to "Need advice---No AI please"

If the AI looks in here and reads all this stuff you are royally screwed. As a matter of fact.....how do we know YOU aren't the AI just posting here to get pointers??? Hmmmmmm???


Quick!

Name the three Alou brothers?

What did Mercury Morris get arrested for?




< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 8/27/2013 1:49:18 AM >

(in reply to jzardos)
Post #: 76
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 2:27:05 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		1. Moses 2. Felipe 3. Platyhelminthes

Possession of cocaine.


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 77
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 1:12:53 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

Studying sub results from 1941-1942, the answer is leadership followed by aggression. The corolation for success was highest with leadership, high with aggression, and even higher when you added the 2 togeather. Try to have the sum above 115. Nav skill had no corolation (except that good leadership, and good nav skill ted to come togeather), however I just read somewhere that it influences not getting spotted and ability to get away when spotted, so I guess don't ignore it.

As for corolations with torp usage, there is a decent one for nav skill (higher skill is fewer torps), but a better one with aggression. So if you are concerned with torp expenditure, higher aggression is your friend. That said, the fleet boats don't miss often, and with their high dud rate I want them to shoot more torpedos, but alas, I can't order them to do that.


Stat analysis is fine as far as it goes, but for subs I tend to discount a lot of it as deployment habits can drive your stats all over the place. The most aggressive CO in the game can't hit anything if the player zones him to a dead area. Stats can be directional, but I wouldn't become too enamored.

Also, I don't think (correct me if wrong) your analyses include use of the deck gun. In the early war, after the first upgrade cycle, this can become a fairly significant tool, especially on unescorted TFs when playing the AI. In my experience playing the AI aggressive USN COs tend to use the deck gun more often than low-aggression. This results in more sinkings, but also more submarine damage and potentially losses. Sometimes the most aggressive CO is not the best one for the job. Very aggressive COs also sometimes drive into minefields while in pursuit.

Just a few things to consider.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 8/27/2013 1:14:13 PM >

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The Moose

(in reply to tiemanjw)
Post #: 78
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 5:08:22 PM   
tiemanjw

 

Posts: 580
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Stat analysis is fine as far as it goes, but for subs I tend to discount a lot of it as deployment habits can drive your stats all over the place. The most aggressive CO in the game can't hit anything if the player zones him to a dead area. Stats can be directional, but I wouldn't become too enamored.

Also, I don't think (correct me if wrong) your analyses include use of the deck gun. In the early war, after the first upgrade cycle, this can become a fairly significant tool, especially on unescorted TFs when playing the AI. In my experience playing the AI aggressive USN COs tend to use the deck gun more often than low-aggression. This results in more sinkings, but also more submarine damage and potentially losses. Sometimes the most aggressive CO is not the best one for the job. Very aggressive COs also sometimes drive into minefields while in pursuit.

Just a few things to consider.



I don't disagree with any of your points. Stats analyses is a tool that may be able to help identify trends. Unspoken is that employment is far more important. My use of the S boats and Dutch boats was dreadful - and thus they don't have as many kills. That said, with a lot of data, some trends can emerge to help for future employment.

You are also mostly correct in that surface attacks are not properly scored in my analyses. Especially recently in my game surface gun attacks have been quite effective. In my scoring, a gun only attack would show up as "unsuccessful" as no torpedoes would hit. That said, most surface attacks in my games have been torpedo and gun attacks - and most of those result in at least 1 torp hit. God alone knows how many they fire to get that result though, as number of torpedoes expended isn't in combat reports for surface attacks.

In the end, I'm trying to understand the factors that drive success / failure that I can control. My analyses showed that high aggression also lend to the sub getting sighted and attacked more often (not really a surprise). It also showed where this was happening - mostly around the home islands and the DEI. The DEI is due to shallow water, I think (can't nail that one down yet), and the HI is probably due to air power - as my analyses of his (the AIs) ops showed that he was very successful where I had no / inexperienced air cover and utter failure when I did have good air cover. I have since moved my aggressive boats back a bit and they have been more successful. I also found putting the less skilled skippers in areas with suspected poor air cover - around the Marshalls and Marianas as well as the middle of the Philippine sea can lead to good results. They are also effective "trip wires" and scouts for larger forces.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 79
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/27/2013 5:15:24 PM   
Banzan

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 3/13/2010
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Well, first of all, I suggest you modify the thread title to "Need advice---No AI please"

If the AI looks in here and reads all this stuff you are royally screwed. As a matter of fact.....how do we know YOU aren't the AI just posting here to get pointers??? Hmmmmmm???



The AI never sleeps! Beware of ther most diabolic apparition of it, called Andy Mac. It notice an evil tactic on the forum, and sooner or later it appears in the game!

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 80
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/17/2014 12:34:12 PM   
wegman58

 

Posts: 460
Joined: 12/28/2013
From: Edina, MN (FROM the Bronx)
Status: offline 		Bump. Might get people who know what they are talking about to add stuff.

(in reply to Banzan)
Post #: 81
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/19/2014 12:43:55 AM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		Subs: fleet boats useless until mid-42…I use for minelaying and transport. The S boats and Dutchmen are the only ones you will hit anything with. I use the fleet boats in packs for minelaying…packs never advisable for regular sub patrol. I slip supplies into Manila on the fleet boats. Don't believe those that say PI easily quarantined. Against a very good opponent this may be case but I have not lost Manila in 2 serious games.

Singapore: get your troops outa peninsula and back to johore and Sing intact. Sneak in lots supplies…get the useless planes and extra ENG out and you can keep it. If you have 80k supplies and #3 forts you will wack a lot of Japanese taking it. I kept Sing against a good player who made 2 ill-timed shock attacks and decimated 2 of his divisions. When things stabilize slowly sneak some fighters back in and bag a pile of unescorted Nells.

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 82
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/19/2014 3:55:29 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		Initial Allied withdrawal plans -
- US Naval BFs are useless in the PI, ship them to Oz right away - Perth & Darwin.
- several Dutch BFs are initially dispersed, but can be recombined. By spending some PPs, these BFs can be bought to ABDA & shipped to North Oz. Several North Oz base-hexes can be bought to ABDA, then KNIL floatplane & bomber airgroups can transfer to them.

(in reply to pontiouspilot)
Post #: 83
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/19/2014 7:51:41 AM   
margeorg

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		Hmmm ...

quote:

Subs: fleet boats useless until mid-42…


That´s too generally spoken, to my taste. In my current PBEM game (end of Sept. 1942) my fleet boats were quite successful in attacks, sinking roughly 40-50 japanese ships so far. One should always keep in mind the torp dud desaster (I had duds already on 5 japanese CVs and 3 BBs, not to mention numerous attacks on cruisers and destroyers), but with keeping that in mind one should still send them out to patrols. And with the radar upgrades in 4/42 they get even more effective in deteckting enemy TFs, which makes them a good recon tool in times were patrol aircraft are still a precious thing.

_____________________________

Cheers
Martin

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 84
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 8/19/2014 12:48:00 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Small thing but I like the AP William Ward Burrows up in NorPac. It's only a 12 kt AP but seems like you can get more out of it early when you need it.

Get the 5th and 6th Chinese Corps into Burma and eventually into Assam so you don't waste precious Chinese supply on replacements.

Change HQ of the Tarakan Coastal Gun Battalion to ABDA (ASAP) and use elsewhere in Java or Sumatra. Hopefully to surprise your opponent. Those guns at Palembang are costly to an invader if given time to fortify.
Change 2nd KNIL AA Battalion to ABDA and move unit to Darwin.

Get all the small units that will be combined in Malaysia preparing for Singapore and get them headed in that direction, You're better off with one big unit than separated weaker units. You'll also save PPs by changing one leader instead of a bunch of them.

Some might debate this but in the past I spend the PPs removing Percival from Malaya Army and getting one of the better leaders. Yes the PPs are wasted but you need to slow down the train and make the triumphs as costly as possible.

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to margeorg)
Post #: 85
RE: Need advice/links for noob playing allies.. please - 9/15/2014 7:11:48 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea
You're better off with one big unit than separated weaker units.


Agreed, but wait till most of the disabled items repair first. You can repair more items per day if you've got 6-8 units repairing than just 1 big one. But combine as soon as the enemy gets close.

Jim

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(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 86
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