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RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 7:57:18 PM

Primarchx

Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
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For what it's worth I seem to recall paying something around $40 for Harpoon 1 in 1989. That was the GIUK battleset with no scenario editor and under 20 scenarios to play.

(in reply to Mabuse)

Post #: 121

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:07:48 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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Speaking of Harpoon, I don't understand why this game is being published here. Looks like you guys are competing with yourselves here...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Primarchx)

Post #: 122

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:13:49 PM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

When have we asked a customer to purchase a game twice at the full price just to get multiplayer? If a product gets two or three years of free updates and it is a great game, at that point if there is a sequel, would you feel cheated?

Regards,

- Erik

That would depend on the condition the previous title was left in, and just how much was changed in the new version in order to warrant a re-release at full price.

Considering the original release typically gets no further updates when this happens, then we're stuck with the condition of the final fixes.

If things go WitP AE, GGWAW+, Harpoon UE, COG:EE and so on regarding re-releasing titles, what are we to expect? There are obviously fixes in the later versions that had been clamored for in the earlier ones, but since the originals were Discontinued we have to re-purchase the whole thing in order to get them. That is the core of my concern.

This is an old argument. One I'm sure has happened here before. How long should updates continue before a "sequel"? I dunno.. as long as it takes for the bugs to get fixed if you're going to re-release the same core game again.

I'm not trying to be scathing, there is no hidden motive behind my concerns. I've never purchased a digital download for $80 and something still tells me not to. This game also will not take up every minute of my free gaming time in the future; I alternate between a wide variety of games and genres. So it will only get played in short stretches interspersed with months in between, just like all the rest of my PC games. I may only end up playing it one month a year. So the time value and lifespan of the game is very subjective in this case, since I just don't stick to any one title all the time. I doubt many people do.

What I'm asking is for some assurance that we not drop eighty or more dollars on this title and see it discontinued for a newer version in 2-4 years which uses the same core game and a couple features added, going for another eighty-plus bucks. If this is really a "Premium" game from Matrix, I want to know that it will get long-term Premium patch support, even if they are few and far between. Not get stuck with an outdated and discontinued version shortly afterward. I want to buy the game. I do not want to feel fleeced & frustrated if it gets dumped a relatively short time into the future in favor of another iteration of same. I ask you to convince me.

< Message edited by NefariousKoel -- 9/24/2013 8:15:15 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 123

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:17:12 PM

Paul Wykes

Posts: 267
Joined: 3/4/2001
From: UK
Status: offline

I try and stay out of these sort of discussions, they just seem to snowball.

However, I`ve been looking forward to this for some time, lurking over at the warfaresims site reading the build roll, watching the videos etc. Rushing how from work, I was a bit taken back by the price, to the point of vocally exclaiming my horror only for my wife to wonder what was wrong. Discussing it with my better half, I`ve taken the plunge. It needed a discussion because, �65.00 is alot of money no matter which you look at, although a purchase like this is always relative. Putting this into perspective from my own experiences, some of my work colleagues would easy spend that sort of money on a night out, thats there "hobby", gaming is mine.

I am <slightly> concerned about the talk of multiplayer and the "V2". How soon/how much more could that be? Still I`ll worry about that when it comes.

(in reply to Primarchx)

Post #: 124

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:18:24 PM

trebcourie

Posts: 301
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
It's a really tough one. �60 is a big ask. It's as much as I paid for Command Ops: Battles from the Bulge. But Command Ops had a demo I'd spent 10-ish hours getting hooked on before taking the plunge.

Regarding demos, you may want to read through this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3374703&mpage=1&key=demo�

I only speak from my own experience.

Demos have shown me the good and bad of games. Yes, I've decided NOT to get some games after trying the demos. On the other hand, there are probably a decent number of (mostly Matrix) games I haven't bought simply because the gameplay videos and AARs didn't sell me -- but the demos may have if they existed.

The Command Ops demo is great and convinced me to buy the game.

What if I could go home tonight, download CMANO, play the tutorial and one or two select scenarios? Of course additional scenarios and the editor would be locked. If I could do that, my excitement over this game might be enough to convince me to spend $80 on it. Without that, Youtube videos and graphical AARs aren't enough to get me to risk my money and time on this.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 125

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:22:09 PM

JiminyJickers

Posts: 290
Joined: 10/4/2011
From: New Zealand
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I'm normally a price complainer as well. After looking at some youtube videos of this, I can say it looks completely brilliant. With a lot of complexity.

It is a lot of money but I think I will pick it up in the not to distant future. I first have to make sure that I will have some time to actually play it. I have bought a few games from here but haven't had the time to invest in it.

Looking forward to giving this a go soon.

(in reply to trebcourie)

Post #: 126

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:27:10 PM

Hexagon

Posts: 1133
Joined: 6/14/2009
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Its the old "excuse" to use high prices in wargames, but for me is something

when guys that like wargames find the prices high, if you have a limited number of costumers and you reduce his number with prices... with a lower price, maybe 20 euros less they can sell more games, is simple maths, i see more easy sell an extra game that need sell 3 games to cover a missing sell.

And yes, the "admirals, Emperor, Gold" sindrome is other point to thing 2 times before buy a game with high price (well to be fair not all gold games are bad i think in ROP you pay 5 euros more and update the game but this is maybe the exception) but at least is easier to understand than other models (i think in Panther games, i think need a master in economic engenier to understand WTF they plan do with releases).

Again, they are free to put the price they want but when people says that even they like the game they simple cant pay the price or even when they can pay it see it to high...

I say it one more time, i plan buy 4 games in this blitzkrieg release period but now this is the second i decide pass and the 2 others... if i see same prices another 2 missing sells more.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 127

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:30:36 PM

HercMighty

Posts: 407
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: Minnesota, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

When have we asked a customer to purchase a game twice at the full price just to get multiplayer? If a product gets two or three years of free updates and it is a great game, at that point if there is a sequel, would you feel cheated?

Regards,

- Erik

That would depend on the condition the previous title was left in, and just how much was changed in the new version in order to warrant a re-release at full price.

Considering the original release typically gets no further updates when this happens, then we're stuck with the condition of the final fixes.

If things go WitP AE, GGWAW+, Harpoon UE, COG:EE and so on regarding re-releasing titles, what are we to expect? There are obviously fixes in the later versions that had been clamored for in the earlier ones, but since the originals were Discontinued we have to re-purchase the whole thing in order to get them. That is the core of my concern.

This is an old argument. One I'm sure has happened here before. How long should updates continue before a "sequel"? I dunno.. as long as it takes for the bugs to get fixed if you're going to re-release the same core game again.

I'm not trying to be scathing, there is no hidden motive behind my concerns. I've never purchased a digital download for $80 and something still tells me not to. This game also will not take up every minute of my free gaming time in the future; I alternate between a wide variety of games and genres. So it will only get played in short stretches interspersed with months in between, just like all the rest of my PC games. I may only end up playing it one month a year. So the time value and lifespan of the game is very subjective in this case, since I just don't stick to any one title all the time. I doubt many people do.

What I'm asking is for some assurance that we not drop eighty or more dollars on this title and see it discontinued for a newer version in 2-4 years which uses the same core game and a couple features added, going for another eighty-plus bucks. If this is really a "Premium" game from Matrix, I want to know that it will get long-term Premium patch support, even if they are few and far between. Not get stuck with an outdated and discontinued version shortly afterward. I want to buy the game. I do not want to feel fleeced & frustrated if it gets dumped a relatively short time into the future in favor of another iteration of same. I ask you to convince me.

I paid $115 dollars for Steel Beasts Pro, each year there is usually 1 or 2 patch updates and once a year a $30 - $40 content\game update release. 3.002 was just released. For me this model has been acceptable. Each release get's it's fixes and if I wanted to stop there, that would be fine, especially at the single player level. Any real upgrades don't cost the same as a full package and the price is in line to the features\content added.

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 128

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:35:31 PM

oldbaldwargamer

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/4/2012
Status: offline

I also bought Steel Beasts Pro at $125 and I love that game..been playing for two years.

I bought The Sims 3 and EU4 lately and I rarely play them...for the price of those two, I get this....and seeing how I love war sims, I'm fairly sure I'll play this a lot..if not, well, it goes in the Sims and EU3 pile.

I went out last night with the family for Indian food, $65.......we wont go next week and I'll buy this...no biggie.

To each his own.

(in reply to HercMighty)

Post #: 129

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:44:55 PM

Nemo84

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mabuse

To those that (maybe with saving up some money) are able afford the game but are complaining and wishing it would cost 30/40/50 dollar,
I say:
1) This is not an so called "App" where you have fun for one hour or two, this is a complex software that models weapons and sensors (etc)in detail. The price decline for some areas on the software market (especially for mobile) is questionable and probably won't result in higher quality.

The complexity of this game is not significantly different from for example DCS-A10, a fully realistic hardcore flight sim also aimed at a very niche audience. The difference is that I can demo their product, it had a release price of $50, a current price (it's a few years old) of $40 and regular sales that now lower it $16. For $15 I'm willing to take a risk and buy a game I might not like. Paying 77.5 euro for a product I might not even enjoy is downright insane. This is a very common train of thought, and whenever I direct people with an interest in entering the wargaming hobby to this site, they recoil in shock at the prices and leave. This is costing the developers a lot of profits, both current and from future titles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mabuse

2) More modern business models were mentioned. What does that mean? Financing with advertising? Selling your personal data and usage profiles? Is it that what you want?

No. It means sell the game at affordable prices, produce demos, allow for frequent sales to lure in new customers, try to get the most accessible titles on Steam, spread the word for new titles somewhere else than merely the same hidden handful of tiny grognard forums. It means attracting attention and allowing people an easy, convenient and comfortable entry into the genre, instead of locking yourself in a tiny cloister endlessly reciting the mantra of "it's a niche hobby, it's a niche hobby". Paradox has managed to do it, the flight sim developers have managed to do it, even the space sim (a genre so niche it was considered dead and buried) is back in force with the most successful Kickstarter project ever. The wargaming "niche" should follow before it's too late.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mabuse

5) In terms of supply and demand, the more people want to have games like this and the less games like this are on the market, the higher the price will be. As there is nothing that can be compared to CMANO, except Harpoon, but this is technically not in the present age, I expected the price to be the highest of all games available on matrix games.

And for the past 6 years Valve has proven this to be utterly and completely wrong. Volume of sales has proven to be so much more important than high unit price, and the entire PC gaming industry is undergoing a massive renaissance based on that simple principle. Except for certain parts of the wargaming community, who each year lag more and more behind.

< Message edited by Nemo84 -- 9/24/2013 8:46:24 PM >

(in reply to Mabuse)

Post #: 130

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 8:48:09 PM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline

So since you two purchased a $110 sim and regularly pay another $40 for expansions (or whatever those are), then I should just leap?

I have to be frugal with my money. I never purchased Steel Beats Pro, partly due to the insane cost and partly due to the ridiculous DRM. Do I want it? Yes. Not enough to be secure in the knowledge that I'll be happy with what I got for the costs and possible hassles involved. At least Matrix doesn't have that DRM, so you must've used your SBPro purchases as the most extreme example of splurging for a single title.

I'm happy you've no regrets in spending that much on a PC game, and most notably regular expansions(?). I don't think all customers are so well off that they can make such purchases with zero concerns. If they were to raise their pricing up to $150 and $60 for expansions, would you still happily pay? No matter, it's subjective.

In the case of SBPro, I'd be concerned about the USB drive, required to play the game, dying on me most of all. If they actually charge for each of their updates, then I would say they're using you guys like an ATM.

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(in reply to oldbaldwargamer)

Post #: 131

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:10:49 PM

HercMighty

Posts: 407
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: Minnesota, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

So since you two purchased a $110 sim and regularly pay another $40 for expansions (or whatever those are), then I should just leap?

I have to be frugal with my money. I never purchased Steel Beats Pro, partly due to the insane cost and partly due to the ridiculous DRM. Do I want it? Yes. Not enough to be secure in the knowledge that I'll be happy with what I got for the costs and possible hassles involved. At least Matrix doesn't have that DRM, so you must've used your SBPro purchases as the most extreme example of splurging for a single title.

I'm happy you've no regrets in spending that much on a PC game, and most notably regular expansions(?). I don't think all customers are so well off that they can make such purchases with zero concerns. If they were to raise their pricing up to $150 and $60 for expansions, would you still happily pay? No matter, it's subjective.

In the case of SBPro, I'd be concerned about the USB drive, required to play the game, dying on me most of all. If they actually charge for each of their updates, then I would say they're using you guys like an ATM.

My point is the pricing model. SB Pro could if they wanted to charge $115 a year if you want the latest version which was one of your concerns with Command. With SB Pro as an existing owner I am paying a fair market value for the additional work they are doing from each stable version, which I believe is fair. And yes it is subjective.

The USB Drive and ridiculous DRM? Here again that is subjective and you have every right to your opinion, but to me personally I don't have an issue and actually I think helps the situation. It keeps my upgrade costs down and has now added the flexibility of timed licenses which could help people who only play a game maybe a month out of the year.

So my point is, software developers who are going to continue with this thought of niche games have got to re-look at the model. SB Pro has, DCS has, Paradox has, ARMA series has, and other franchises need to.

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 132

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:15:44 PM

Duck Doc

Posts: 693
Joined: 6/9/2004
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I am sure that there is a marketing strategy which accounts for the price they set.

And they ain't going to lower the price. That would really alienate those that shelled out the big bucks already. Be prepared to shell out more. DLC is coming and good for them.

So, the real question should be: is this game worth the price of two others?

From the information released in advance, especially the AAR's, I am going to bet it is and then some.

Interesting discussion though; irrelevant but interesting.

I'll bet also this is not a Harpoon competitor at all (again, based on the AAR's, developer's diaries and other info released in advance). We are way out of that league with this game.

Carry on with the whining...

(in reply to Primarchx)

Post #: 133

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:25:39 PM

Xornox

Posts: 39
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H
I'll bet also this is not a Harpoon competitor at all (again, based on the AAR's, developer's diaries and other info released in advance). We are way out of that league with this game.

It is easier to pass this game if you already own Harpoon. That way they are competitors. If Harpoon would not exist, I probably would pay the price to get at least one proper modern naval warfare simulation. Now I wait next 5+ years until Command: Modern Air/Naval operations comes to sales.

(in reply to Duck Doc)

Post #: 134

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:28:06 PM

Janes

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/15/2013
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That's a bummer. Yesterday i was exited i got the coupon but now i really don't think i will get this one. It's ridiculousy overpriced. Oh well, like someone said, back to Harpoon i guess.

I wish the devs all the best and i hope Matrix didn't shoot itself on the knee with this decision.

(in reply to Duck Doc)

Post #: 135

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:45:53 PM

Alejo1968

Posts: 101
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline

Well, I expected a high price but not that much... sad.
In my list "World in Flames" in november and Market Garden in october (for Combat Mission) have priority, so no purchase right now.
Besides... if you think that 80 dollars is too much, here, in my country (with an additional 20% (damn, I hate politicians)), you can imagine.
Hope to try it in the future.

(in reply to Janes)

Post #: 136

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:53:01 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Interesting about CM...CM base $60, CM:CW: $40, CM:2.0 $10, CM:MG $40 = $150 for only a small portion of the ground war in Europe. (Throw in $100 for Italy and you are at $250)

$80 for every ship, aircraft, sub, sensor, weapon, entire world as a pre-built map. Seems like a bargain for me. I bet we'll end up with more scenarios than currently in CM as well. There are already 40. I think CMBN is at about 140 or something like that.

Now if you are more into ground warfare than naval, all the more power to you. But for some of us, this is the naval CM. So $80 is a steal for us.

(in reply to Alejo1968)

Post #: 137

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 9:54:15 PM

hondo1375

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/12/2005
From: London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon
Its the old "excuse" to use high prices in wargames, but for me is something when guys that like wargames find the prices high, if you have a limited number of costumers and you reduce his number with prices... with a lower price, maybe 20 euros less they can sell more games, is simple maths, i see more easy sell an extra game that need sell 3 games to cover a missing sell.

The math really isn't that simple, and it requires a lot of data to get it right. Most companies will have analysis that plots demand curves for their products, probably broken down by customer segment. They plot the number of units they think they will sell to a given customer segment at different price points. These vary by product and customer segment. Sometimes increasing the price of a product will completely stifle demand as people do without or switch to other products, sometimes people will keep buying in roughly the same volumes even if the price is increased because they can't do without it.

I'm sure Matrix have worked out how much they want to make from this game, as a total amount of money, and have done the analysis on who and how big the total potential market is, and then worked out the price point - based on comparative releases - from their demand curves to see what price would get them there. Or they used the marketing dart board to set the price.

I guess they are banking on the hardcore who's just gotta have it, and are prepared to pay for it at the WitP-style premium price, and that the game will get enough positive reviews amongst those grogs that it will get the fence-sitters like me to buy and get them to or past the chunk of change they need to make this a financial success for them. Plus, I'm sure, there will be some discounting to drive volume at some point, once those prepared to pay premium price have been flushed through of the system. Hey, that's capitalism baby!

_____________________________

First wargame: Jedko's 1st edition "The Russian Campaign". First computer wargame: don't remember the name, but it was on punch cards.

(in reply to Hexagon)

Post #: 138

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:02:22 PM

Nemo84

Posts: 115
Joined: 3/29/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Interesting about CM...CM base $60, CM:CW: $40, CM:2.0 $10, CM:MG $40 = $150 for only a small portion of the ground war in Europe. (Throw in $100 for Italy and you are at $250)

I don't know where you get these ridiculously high prices. Did Matrix start selling CM titles all of a sudden?

From the Battlefront store:
CM base + CM:CW: $55
CM:MG + CM2.0: $40

For a grand total of $95, which is still cheaper than this title despite including 2 expansion packs. The full Italy bundle is $75, for a total which is $80 cheaper than your claim. Some companies actually know the meaning of the words "discount" and "bundled price".

< Message edited by Nemo84 -- 9/24/2013 10:03:25 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 139

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:06:41 PM

Mabuse

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/24/2013
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

The complexity of this game is not significantly different from for example DCS-A10, a fully realistic hardcore flight sim also aimed at a very niche audience. The difference is that I can demo their product, it had a release price of $50, a current price (it's a few years old) of $40 and regular sales that now lower it $16. For $15 I'm willing to take a risk and buy a game I might not like. Paying 77.5 euro for a product I might not even enjoy is downright insane. This is a very common train of thought, and whenever I direct people with an interest in entering the wargaming hobby to this site, they recoil in shock at the prices and leave. This is costing the developers a lot of profits, both current and from future titles.

Yes, I played DCS Black Shark, the first one in the series, as it came out. It's also a product with lot of heart in it. I didn't say that I like Matrix not to have a
demo out for CMANO. On the other hand it wasn't needed to convince me to buy the game as I've been following the progress for 2-3 years now.

Back to DCS, they now have a free base game called DCS World and a lot of DLCs. I've had a look at it right now and it adds up to ~270� (~$364) if it weren't
on sales right now. So it's not that keen, although one don't have to buy all the DLCs to have fun. I personally am not a friend of DLCs by the way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

No. It means sell the game at affordable prices, produce demos, allow for frequent sales to lure in new customers, try to get the most accessible titles on Steam, spread the word for new titles somewhere else than merely the same hidden handful of tiny grognard forums. It means attracting attention and allowing people an easy, convenient and comfortable entry into the genre, instead of locking yourself in a tiny cloister endlessly reciting the mantra of "it's a niche hobby, it's a niche hobby". Paradox has managed to do it, the flight sim developers have managed to do it, even the space sim (a genre so niche it was considered dead and buried) is back in force with the most successful Kickstarter project ever. The wargaming "niche" should follow before it's too late.

I like the traditional Paradox titles. Nowadays, they're more broadly positioned and sell a lot more mainstreamed stuff and many expansions and DLCs too.
For Starship Corporation, I guess you meant that, I truly doubt that this game is aimed at a niche market, nor is the genre a niche. Think of Freelancer and
the others, they were big successes. I also wouldn't think of wargames as a genre as a small niche, except games like Harpoon and CMANO and some other
hardcore titles. Wargames probably never will be sold like CoD or Battlefield, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

And for the past 6 years Valve has proven this to be utterly and completely wrong. Volume of sales has proven to be so much more important than high unit price, and the entire PC gaming industry is undergoing a massive renaissance based on that simple principle. Except for certain parts of the wargaming community, who each year lag more and more behind.

Yes, mathematically there is an exact price for every game which brings the most profit. To determine this price exactly one have to know how many will buy
the game for what price. Thats probably the crucial point as you can estimate based on surveys and experience, but you can't be sure.

In the end it's also not my job to higher the sales. I just wanted to show an opposite view. Maybe I digressed a bit from what I wanted to say. Something like
that the game is probably worth it's price.

(in reply to Nemo84)

Post #: 140

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:16:37 PM

RockKahn

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline

If people would complain to the politicians about taxes as much as they complain to Matrix about prices, we'd all have a lot more money to spend on wargames.

The $80 download price is about what I was expecting. It's probably worth that, but people are deciding if they want to sink that much money into one game, and rightfully so, even if they consider it worth the money. After all, you can buy 2 other high quality Matrix games for that price.

I'm planning to buy it here in a little bit. I'm on a budget, too. I wanted Civil War 2, but Command more, so I decided I'd better wait to see what Command was going to cost me. I figured if it was $60 download, I'd buy both, but if it was $80 or more download, Civil War 2 is going to have to wait. Sorry CW2. I still want ya. Maybe someday.

_____________________________

I don't write Universal Law. I just live by it.

(in reply to Mabuse)

Post #: 141

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:18:52 PM

Alejo1968

Posts: 101
Joined: 10/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo84

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Interesting about CM...CM base $60, CM:CW: $40, CM:2.0 $10, CM:MG $40 = $150 for only a small portion of the ground war in Europe. (Throw in $100 for Italy and you are at $250)

I don't know where you get these ridiculously high prices. Did Matrix start selling CM titles all of a sudden?

From the Battlefront store:
CM base + CM:CW: $55
CM:MG + CM2.0: $40

For a grand total of $95, which is still cheaper than this title despite including 2 expansion packs. The full Italy bundle is $75, for a total which is $80 cheaper than your claim. Some companies actually know the meaning of the words "discount" and "bundled price".

+1 (and another +1)
please the wood, post correct data

(in reply to Nemo84)

Post #: 142

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:32:30 PM

fuf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

And they ain't going to lower the price. That would really alienate those that shelled out the big bucks already.

You're right, of course. They won't change the price and this whole discussion is academic.

It's just frustrating to see such a promising game get relegated to obscurity before it even has a chance, all as a result of irrational, outdated business practices.

(in reply to Duck Doc)

Post #: 143

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:35:59 PM

JDM

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The realty of the situation is that first day sales have exceeded all expectations. Experience tells us that the strategy games audience appreciated this sort of deep and immersive experience. WarSims are a brand new developer and your support is therefore all the more important and my goodness you have shown this in your droves. Just the support they need to go on bringing this type of game to our audience

(in reply to Alejo1968)

Post #: 144

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:40:24 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brausepaul
Seems like this game needs a few AARs or good Let's play videos.

Please have a look here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/announcement.asp?id=26

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3404912

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3410675

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3392507

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(in reply to Brausepaul)

Post #: 145

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:44:48 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston
What he said. I'll take the chance on this (and it is a chance - no demo, no track-record, no idea how good/bad/indifferent the AI is in an SP only game) as I am a genre-fan but the 'price' means a definite 'no' to ACW 2, World in Flames or Pandora, all of which I was likely to buy.

I have to respond to some of this. No demo, sure - but no idea of how good/bad? Just read the AARs, watch the videos and wait for customer and tester feedback. You'll get a very good idea of the quality of the game. As far as no track record, I would beg to differ. The guys involved in Command are among the brightest folks from the Harpoon community and their work there is very well known. For this genre, you would be hard pressed to assemble a better team.

As far as making a decision on which games to buy based on price, I certainly understand that. We all have our budget and our price points. For me, a game like Command comes along in each niche once in a long while and it's worth the price but your mileage may vary.

quote:

I also share the suspicion an MP enabled 'Admirals Edition' will come along at some point for which we'll be asked to fork out full whack again, with maybe only the usual pathetic Matrix 'existing owner' discount - remember Crown of Glory folks?

Still don't understand these comments. Admiral's Edition had nothing to do with MP and was a new game after WITP was very well supported. Admiral's Edition was very well received and continues to be supported. Crown of Glory received a lot of support after release and the Emperor's Edition only came out many years later after Forge of Freedom, including many engine and design improvements and new features, including a completely new tactical naval game.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 146

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:46:09 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gexmex
Hands on videos, AARs, and dev diaries are great at garnering my interest and answering some questions. At the same time though, screenshots and vids of other people playing only get me so far, especially with an $80 price-point. Being able explore even just the tutorial of the game to get my feet wet and kick the tires a little bit would go a long way to improving my chances of purchasing. Maybe this is a bit over dramatic, but you would never purchase a car without a test drive. While it's a car vs a computer game I feel like the analogy still applies. This is a Cadillac of the game world. Let me take it for a spin before committing.

I understand demos really work well for some customers. Unfortunately they don't work well in general and they do require a significant amount of additional development effort to create. At this time, we'd rather focus that on the game itself.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 147

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:48:14 PM

NefariousKoel

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I'll stop whining and pick it up. A small Matrix coupon helps take the sting out of the price.

I've been looking forward to this for years so I'd better jump off the fence. If it ends up getting superseded in an 'Ultimate Edition' re-release, I'll go Torches & Pitchforks at that time. Hopefully it's just regular 'ole expansions.

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Post #: 148

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:53:59 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel
If things go WitP AE, GGWAW+, Harpoon UE, COG:EE and so on regarding re-releasing titles, what are we to expect? There are obviously fixes in the later versions that had been clamored for in the earlier ones, but since the originals were Discontinued we have to re-purchase the whole thing in order to get them. That is the core of my concern.

I'm kind of amazed actually that you see the titles you mention above as just re-releases with a few fixes. If that's what you really believe, I probably can't convince you otherwise. We have a record of supporting our exclusive releases very well. WITP received years of updates, including many new features, before WITP: AE development began. AE rewrote and redesigned the majority of the game, including changing the entire game scale and database and introducing an entirely new map. For GGWAW, we added multiplayer as a free update that took nine months to develop, even before we went back and created GGWAW AWD as a sequel. For Harpoon UE, we included every previous version and database of Harpoon we could find as a free addition, as well as combining both previous Harpoon releases into one for a significant discount after years of updates, as well as offering a discount upgrade for previous owners. For COG: EE, again after years of updates and an intervening game (Forge of Freedom) which updated the engine, we overhauled COG and introduced many new features and systems, it went through a development cycle just as long as the original COG before it was released, again with a discount for COG owners.

quote:

What I'm asking is for some assurance that we not drop eighty or more dollars on this title and see it discontinued for a newer version in 2-4 years which uses the same core game and a couple features added, going for another eighty-plus bucks. If this is really a "Premium" game from Matrix, I want to know that it will get long-term Premium patch support, even if they are few and far between. Not get stuck with an outdated and discontinued version shortly afterward. I want to buy the game. I do not want to feel fleeced & frustrated if it gets dumped a relatively short time into the future in favor of another iteration of same. I ask you to convince me.

We have no such intention. However, I consider the games you noted as well supported, for the reasons above, so we may just be on different pages on this. As I said above, I respect that the decision whether or not to purchase is personal and dependent on many points for each customer. Our goal is neither to fleece or frustrate you, but to support this as a flagship release.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 149

RE: Pricing Suggestion - 9/24/2013 10:55:48 PM

Erik Rutins

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BROJD
What if I could go home tonight, download CMANO, play the tutorial and one or two select scenarios? Of course additional scenarios and the editor would be locked. If I could do that, my excitement over this game might be enough to convince me to spend $80 on it. Without that, Youtube videos and graphical AARs aren't enough to get me to risk my money and time on this.

Understood and I believe that it would work well for you. I wish I could give you that opportunity. If we feel a demo will help this release, we'll create one but I have to say again honestly that right now we have no plans for that based on the data we have to date on the effect of demos for complex wargames.

Regards,

- Erik

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