Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
The argument that those willingly wanting to use a tablet instead of a real book, is just the defense of the cheap trying to justify being cheap.

Guess she doesn't know that tablets or e-readers cost more than hard cover books..........

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
Thus, your defense crashed and burned 76 :) Better luck next time :)

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
Thus, your defense crashed and burned 76 :) Better luck next time :)

I hate to disappoint you, but you weren't responding to my post, but Aurelian's. To me the relative cost of paper books vs tablets is pretty much irrelevant.

So

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

I understand that certain people prefer hard copy books. I understand that certain people prefer reading pdfs on tablets. No problem...

What I don't understand is when certain people say that others are "wrong" because reading on one or the other is objectively "better" and attack others (as being "cheap", etc.) for holding another opinion.

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

I understand that certain people prefer hard copy books. I understand that certain people prefer reading pdfs on tablets. No problem...

What I don't understand is when certain people say that others are "wrong" because reading on one or the other is objectively "better" and attack others (as being "cheap", etc.) for holding another opinion.

I suppose they think that because they like the books, *everyone* is supposed to follow them.

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

I understand that certain people prefer hard copy books. I understand that certain people prefer reading pdfs on tablets. No problem...

What I don't understand is when certain people say that others are "wrong" because reading on one or the other is objectively "better" and attack others (as being "cheap", etc.) for holding another opinion.

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
The tablet is a great idea to read a book at the donut shop, or read a book on the subway to work. They can play video, and they make nice web browsers, and they are ok to read novels from. They are a lame substitute for a manual though.

I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.
I think there will be a lot of people finding out, that relying on pdf files is just not going to cut it as well.
They are ok for the light reading aspect if you want to get in some study on the toilet, or a lunch break, or at the cottage. But for playing the game, I have no expectations of using anything digital for reference.

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
Playing the game, and resorting to just pdf files.... that's like scrubbing my floors with a finger nail brush. Yeah it can be done, I wouldn't volunteer to do it though :)

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
It's time the people not wanting the books realized, the computer game is a space convenience, the books are not a pointless extra. It's unfortunate some people live in annoying regions of the planet. It's up to the people living there, to fix that I suppose.

The books are so many time better than a pdf file.

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
I don't think anyone that has not heard of WiF would have the slightest interest in virtually any of this game actually. It's not an entry level wargame. I think the audience are all hard core fans of the board game.

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ORIGINAL: brian brian

Playing this game on a computer at all is worse than the tactile 3D gaming experience, and just being cheap.

Just drop it already.

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I think the largest problem besetting computer World in Flames, is the perception it is more computer program, than set of books.
I think there will be a lot of people finding out, that relying on pdf files is just not going to cut it as well.

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ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Its like somebody ordered a cup of coffee, and it came in a fancy mug with a WIF picture on the side..only 100 bucks. Then arguing that it is the best coffee they ever drank..when it is the same as the free coffee in the office.

We want to drink the same coffee. Only we want to do it for free.

The books add no value. Its great that they offer it for the 'judge the book by the cover' crowd, but for the smart shopper, we are happy to just print from the PDF's the information we want. Or use another means of accessing the information.

What is really sad, is I am not even sure if the rah-rah the books are great crowd have even read them.

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The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

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Its like somebody ordered a cup of coffee, and it came in a fancy mug with a WIF picture on the side..only 100 bucks. Then arguing that it is the best coffee they ever drank..when it is the same as the free coffee in the office.

We want to drink the same coffee. Only we want to do it for free.

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The books add no value.

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but for the smart shopper

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What is really sad, is I am not even sure if the rah-rah the books are great crowd have even read them.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

Warspite..warspite, warspite..


You didn't read this thread, did you. Just jumped right in and started blasting.

Start with the title: BOOKS ARRIVED, LET MAY SAY THEY ARE INCREDIBLE....

First Line: Just got my parcel in the mail...

Then the OP went on to tell us what a great and wonderful thing these books are. Perhaps he was a speed reader. But I somehow doubt it.

SO I give warning to those who have yet to buy the game. IF you are new, the books will be useful until you are no longer new. If you own WIF, or played WIF, the books will be of limited use. Certainly not worth the 50$ in shipping, plus whatever the value of the books are. Of course, if you are an American, the shipping price is much less....as above.

The shipping invoice claims that the game disc is 6.67, and the books are the rest out of 40$. I would like to say that out of the 112$ they actually charge, half of it is for the books. But it is probably more.

Which means for THE REST OF THE WORLD, we paid 50$ shipping and perhaps more in tax.

GAME: 50$. BOOKS 100$.

SO for that far out of whack is going to cause people to take a closer look at what they are getting for their money.

The game, no problem...despite all kinds of learning curves and actual bugs, the game is okay. Worth the 50 bucks.

The PDF manual....of some limited use, but I can print the pages that are useful to me. I have the boardgame (actually have version 1, 3, 5, and FE), so I have the charts, and can use them. I am willing to bet that most of the people who bought this computer version have played one of these versions. Maybe half to a third own one of them.

The RAW is on line and free. The RAC is just the RAW all fancied up with a few deviations. Thanks for making me buy an expensive version of something I already have printed out. 1/3rd of the books. 33 bucks, thereabouts.

The other two are mostly pictures of what you see on the screen....and a lot of commentary about what/how you should be moving your pieces, in case you don't want to figure that out on your own. Great stuff for newbies who never played WIF before. Better gouge them with some expensive hard covers. After a few months, they wont be reading these books.

Now...Warspite. Yes..I am talking to you. I am willing to bet you had something to do with the making of these. And are taking it personal.

Well..just to be clear. What I really don't like is:


1) Having the material forced on me for 50$ when I could have printed them for 10$, or just left them on a tablet for free.

2) Paying FEDEX 50 bucks to ship something that I downloaded for free. A disc I can't even use, since I gave up owning a DVD-drive in my computer a couple years ago as obsolete. And three Hardcover books, that could have easily been softcover, or better yet, not included.

3) Not offering a choice so that the 'Judge the book by it's cover' crowd can have there eye-candy, while the more knowledgeable crowd could make do with the PDF's.



I am hoping that Matrix comes to their senses...and I strongly believe they will, rendering all this moot...and offer a download only version. When they do, I want to buy my poorer wargaming buddies a copy of the game each so we can all play.

Oh yeah. The game isn't actually finished yet. Well..I have time wait then.


SO warspite. Please tell me why you think the manuals are better in a HARDCOVER version. And worth the extra 100 dollars for non-americans...60 bucks if your American. Why they are better then just printing the PDF and putting it into a 3 ring binder.



After they do....I wonder how strongly you will all feel about your 'hardcover' manuals

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SO warspite. Please tell me why you think the manuals are better in a HARDCOVER version. And worth the extra 100 dollars for non-americans...60 bucks if your American. Why they are better then just printing the PDF and putting it into a 3 ring binder.

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Now...Warspite. Yes..I am talking to you. I am willing to bet you had something to do with the making of these. And are taking it personal.

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You didn't read this thread, did you. Just jumped right in and started blasting.

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After they do....I wonder how strongly you will all feel about your 'hardcover' manuals

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
The more interesting observation is the fake prices on the invoice. You do realize the prices were faked right? It sounds like some of you really thought they were genuine. The prices you paid were displayed on your computer screen. Everything else is the business of the shipping process and your nation of current destination.

I personally think it was reasonably generous of them to put on a bogus value on the parcel.

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ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

It's amusing, how if I state something matter of factly I have to be wrong, but if they state something matter of factly, it has to be right.

I gave up on that style of debate back in grade 3, but I suppose that method is ok with some of you boys here.

The more interesting observation is the fake prices on the invoice. You do realize the prices were faked right? It sounds like some of you really thought they were genuine. The prices you paid were displayed on your computer screen. Everything else is the business of the shipping process and your nation of current destination.

I personally think it was reasonably generous of them to put on a bogus value on the parcel.
A friend of mine, recently took an item of his own creation to exhibit in the US from here in Canada.
The item is worth 10 MILLION bucks (no you read that correctly). He had to go through an incredible process of insuring it just to carry it across the border. You see, he doesn't have the several tens of thousands of bucks on him to ensure it for it's real worth.

People need to seriously wrap their heads around a truth, the problem of shipping the books to you is YOUR problem, it isn't the problem entirely of Slitherine Group. It is true they want to be able to sell to as many people as possible, and just saying that sounds like I am explaining that water is wet.

Fabricating justifications for ditching the books, seems to forget that a major aspect of this product IS the books. When I first saw this on sale, I was partly 'awesome it really exists' referring to the program. But mainly it was 'holy crap, look at the books it comes with' meaning it was going to be so much more than just another computer game I likely really didn't need (which sure seems to apply to too many of my games).

If your wall is too high to climb over where shipping costs are concerned, don't try and spin it as the books lack worth and value. It is what it is, it's YOUR inability to buy them, not their inability to be worth it.

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It's amusing, how if I state something matter of factly I have to be wrong, but if they state something matter of factly, it has to be right.

I gave up on that style of debate back in grade 3, but I suppose that method is ok with some of you boys here.

The more interesting observation is the fake prices on the invoice. You do realize the prices were faked right? It sounds like some of you really thought they were genuine. The prices you paid were displayed on your computer screen. Everything else is the business of the shipping process and your nation of current destination.

I personally think it was reasonably generous of them to put on a bogus value on the parcel.
A friend of mine, recently took an item of his own creation to exhibit in the US from here in Canada.
The item is worth 10 MILLION bucks (no you read that correctly). He had to go through an incredible process of insuring it just to carry it across the border. You see, he doesn't have the several tens of thousands of bucks on him to ensure it for it's real worth.

People need to seriously wrap their heads around a truth, the problem of shipping the books to you is YOUR problem, it isn't the problem entirely of Slitherine Group. It is true they want to be able to sell to as many people as possible, and just saying that sounds like I am explaining that water is wet.

Fabricating justifications for ditching the books, seems to forget that a major aspect of this product IS the books. When I first saw this on sale, I was partly 'awesome it really exists' referring to the program. But mainly it was 'holy crap, look at the books it comes with' meaning it was going to be so much more than just another computer game I likely really didn't need (which sure seems to apply to too many of my games).

If your wall is too high to climb over where shipping costs are concerned, don't try and spin it as the books lack worth and value. It is what it is, it's YOUR inability to buy them, not their inability to be worth it.

_____________________________

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ORIGINAL: Centuur

Now, I understand that if you have to pay a large amount on taxes and shipping, that people are not happy about this. However, I again say this topic is about the quality of the books, not if you want them or not (or have to pay a huge amount for to get them on your doorstep).

I'm getting very, very tired of those people here, who haven't seen the books, commenting about not wanting them. There is another topic somewhere here in which people can adress that fact...

So, I'm going to shout now:

PLEASE REFRAIN ANY TALKS ABOUT NOT WANTING THE BOOKS IN THIS TOPIC. USE THE OTHER ONE FOR THIS. GET OUT OF THIS TOPIC WHICH IS ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE BOOKS. YOU ARE OFF TOPIC HERE!

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ORIGINAL: Hotschi

The manuals which were shipped with this game, are the best one I've seen so far for a computer game. There's video tutorials, there's text tutorials, there's pfd files, there's printed books. All in one. Excellent, and worth the money I have spent getting it all. Name me one other game which comes with such a complete package. There's something included for every taste.

No company can please everyone, since every person has his or her own preferences, that's a no brainer. If there are people around who don't like this package, it's regrettable, but does not deduct anything from me being happy with the whole purchase.

By the way, adressing posters here as "boys" adds nothing to the discussion. It can be taken as arrogant, belittling, or insulting - anything but friendly.