Production costs

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Production costs

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> WIF School >> Production costs

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Production costs - 11/16/2013 4:04:26 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

I have looked in the manuals and in the game and cannot find anywhere a unit cost summary for production. The only way i have found one (for Germany) is to hit pass until the turn ends

. Then a list of units shows up showing the BPs they cost and the turns they take.

There has GOT to be a form somewhere that lists this all out without actually having to do what I had to do. Can anyone point out to me where I can find out this data?

Post #: 1

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 4:09:25 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I have looked in the manuals and in the game and cannot find anywhere a unit cost summary for production. The only way i have found one (for Germany) is to hit pass until the turn ends . Then a list of units shows up showing the BPs they cost and the turns they take.

There has GOT to be a form somewhere that lists this all out without actually having to do what I had to do. Can anyone point out to me where I can find out this data?

warspite1

Its also in the manual vol.2 - section 11.8.3 - Unit Costs and Characteristics

Its also available as a drop down in the Help section

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/16/2013 5:40:00 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 2

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 5:44:45 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

I found that but under the Naval section it says ship based

for costs. Yet in the game production screen it clearly shows what the costs for CVs, BBs, etc. are. So where are the costs for naval vessels found?

Edit:
Also where does it tell me the limits on how many of a given type I can build? Not Gearing limits, but the number of CVs I can build or Armour units, etc.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 11/16/2013 6:55:01 AM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 3

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:31:48 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

I found that but under the Naval section it says ship based for costs. Yet in the game production screen it clearly shows what the costs for CVs, BBs, etc. are. So where are the costs for naval vessels found?

Edit:
Also where does it tell me the limits on how many of a given type I can build? Not Gearing limits, but the number of CVs I can build or Armour units, etc.

For individual naval unit costs, you need to see individual units. The Units Review will do that. Filter it for a unit type and the Unit Data Panel will show the cost of each unit.

Page 88 of volume 2 shows the Production form. Figure 8.7.2.40 shows the costs for carriers and other naval units.

Gearing Limits apply to all units. Carriers are gearing type Ship, as are battleships, cruisers, and several others. The limit is on Ships in the aggregate, not individual unit types.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 4

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:43:15 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Thanks Steve. But I am looking for the Max number of a type I can build. I thought there was a limit to how much Armour Germany could build in total (or para, 2-Air, etc.), like 16 Armour units max on the map. Where can I find that? Or is there no limit in the game?

So each naval unit has to be looked up individually to determine the cost?

There is no comprehensive list showing the costs for each ship in the game? It seems like that should be something pretty basic data that should be readily in a computer game.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 5

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:50:26 AM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

Each country has a Force Pool of units currently available to it. However many are currently in the Force Pool is the maximum that can be built. I don't know what the tray or screen or form name for that is in MWiF though. Each year a few more units of every type are generally added to it. Each year the player also has the option of removing older units from the Force Pool, unless you chose not to use the Scrapping optional rule. I would imagine that looking through the Naval Force Pools would quickly show the costs for each unit. The ships vary slightly, but not by too much generally. They somewhat increase in cost as the war goes along and the ships become more powerful.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 6

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 2:51:46 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Thanks Brian. That helped.

I have never played the board game and the one Global War production screen I saw had numbers in the Max column so it lead me to believe that there was a hard game limit on certain types of units a country could have. Which made sense in the board game given the limitations of a physical counter mix. So I figured that there would have been a chart somewhere that gave the exact costs for ALL the units along with the maximum number you could build somewhere.

In the board game you could just do a quick count of the number of armour units Germany had as an example. So you would know that Germany could never build any more than that number. But if this information is not that important, I can understand why it is not included in a form somewhere besides the actual production screen in the game.

Is there a form where someone can see ALL the forces that a country could possible build in the game? That would do the trick as well

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 7

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 3:24:53 PM

henri51

Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline

I have read somewhere that the units were limited in the board game because there was a finite amount of counters, but that limitation has been removed for the computer version.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 8

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 3:33:55 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

I have read somewhere that the units were limited in the board game because there was a finite amount of counters, but that limitation has been removed for the computer version.

warspite1

No - there are finite counters in WIF and these counters are replicated in MWIF.

The game has the Units in Game list which gives every counter. I don't think its in date order though.

For the aircraft and land units its more difficult, but for the naval units its fairly easy - every light cruiser and above that was in the war is in the game + a few "what-if" counters.

Come to think of it - aren't their files within the game that give you this info? There must be - one for each of land, air and naval - just don't ask me where to find it , I am no good with computers...

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/16/2013 4:34:13 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to henri51)

Post #: 9

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 3:37:37 PM

Incy

Posts: 336
Joined: 10/25/2003
Status: offline

Also, there are gearing limits.

For each (gearing) type of unit, you may at most build one more unit than you built the previous turn

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 10

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 5:23:48 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

Under "Info" - "pools" you can find the force pools of all nations (including the future force pools).

The same counter limitations for the force pools are in MWIF as were in the board game. Only generic counters (such as markers, offensive chits, factories, partisans, etc.) are not limited.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to henri51)

Post #: 11

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 5:41:16 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Under "Info" - "pools" you can find the force pools of all nations (including the future force pools).

The same counter limitations for the force pools are in MWIF as were in the board game. Only generic counters (such as markers, offensive chits, factories, partisans, etc.) are not limited.

warspite1

see post 9

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/16/2013 7:20:47 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 12

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:14:40 PM

SamuraiProgrmmr

Posts: 353
Joined: 10/17/2004
From: Paducah, Kentucky
Status: offline

At one time there was talk of unlimited divisions from ''breakdown" of normal units. Maybe that is what you are referring to.

_____________________________

Bridge is the best wargame going .. Where else can you find a tournament every weekend?

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 13

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:19:06 PM

Xelvonar

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/22/2003
From: Watsonville, CA
Status: offline

For the most part, each power's force pools are what they were in the board game. This is part of what gives each power its national characteristics - Germany has lots of strong armor, commonwealth lots of battleships and cruisers, Japan a strong naval Air Force and quality carrier air, etc. If you want full blown flexibility in your military for each country, WiF is the wrong game - try Hearts of Iron instead.

One change from the board game version, however, if you implement the optional rule, is unlimited unit breakdown. If this is on, then you may breakdown as many of your corps/armies into divisions are you want, and there is an unlimited pool of these "virtual" divisions, in addition to the divisions that you can build normally from your force pools.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 14

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:48:50 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

You don't get full-blown flexibility perhaps, but most countries have the option to build at least a little of every type of unit. Can Germany build 3 full Marine corps units like Japan and the USA can? No, but they can build one full corps and one division of Marines. Would historical Germany have been able to properly officer, train and equip more Marine infantry than that? Probably not - unless and until the war moved on to some sort of post-historica-WWII situation, such as in the not-computerized-yet game America in Flames, where additional German Marine units are a possibility I believe.

So the contents of the Force Pools are part of the design, and based on the realities of history.

(in reply to Xelvonar)

Post #: 15

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 6:54:22 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

At one time there was talk of unlimited divisions from ''breakdown" of normal units. Maybe that is what you are referring to.

All counters in the board game were limited - obviously - although WIF FE did permit making your own convoy counters as 'change' if needed.

The Forward to Rules as Coded has a section on Deviations, which mentions some of the unlimited counters in MWIF. There is additional mention in section 10.5 for RAC section 1.3. And the optional rule unlimited breakdown describes unlimited divisions when that optional rule is used.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to SamuraiProgrmmr)

Post #: 16

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 7:25:57 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Under "Info" - "pools" you can find the force pools of all nations (including the future force pools).

The same counter limitations for the force pools are in MWIF as were in the board game. Only generic counters (such as markers, offensive chits, factories, partisans, etc.) are not limited.

Found it

. Thanks so much. Almost what I was looking for but I can make do with this

So under the sub-heading Force Pools, this lists everything a country could build in the entire game, correct?

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 17

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 8:04:36 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Under "Info" - "pools" you can find the force pools of all nations (including the future force pools).

The same counter limitations for the force pools are in MWIF as were in the board game. Only generic counters (such as markers, offensive chits, factories, partisans, etc.) are not limited.

Found it . Thanks so much. Almost what I was looking for but I can make do with this

So under the sub-heading Force Pools, this lists everything a country could build in the entire game, correct?

Yes. Mostly. If you capture naval units or align more minor countries or conquer minor countries that have territorials, those units may be added to your force pools. Warlords might be acquired similarly. I'm not sure if replacement units are included. There are also Reserve Pools for each country. And Repair Pools. ...

It is difficult to say anything about WIF definitively. There are a lot of moving parts and optional rules.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 18

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 9:36:40 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Finally set up a global war scenerio, what a chore lol. Even with using the pre-setup scripts.

So I am looking at Japan's Force pools at the start of the game. They can only build 2 more CVs, the Junyo and the Hiyo? With the Shokaku completed for the 1st pass. Is that right?

Of course it looks like 5 more CVLs can be built with 5 additional ones already in the Construction pool.

So if these CVs get sunk, I assume they go into the Destroyed pool? The help for the form does not mention this pool at all. Can they be rebuilt from the destroyed pool or once there they are out of the game forever?

It just seems odd for a game starting in 1939 that Japan has only two CVs it can build for the rest of the war. So I want to make sure my understanding of this is close to the mark

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 19

RE: Production costs - 11/16/2013 11:15:20 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Finally set up a global war scenerio, what a chore lol. Even with using the pre-setup scripts.

So I am looking at Japan's Force pools at the start of the game. They can only build 2 more CVs, the Junyo and the Hiyo? With the Shokaku completed for the 1st pass. Is that right?

Of course it looks like 5 more CVLs can be built with 5 additional ones already in the Construction pool.

So if these CVs get sunk, I assume they go into the Destroyed pool? The help for the form does not mention this pool at all. Can they be rebuilt from the destroyed pool or once there they are out of the game forever?

It just seems odd for a game starting in 1939 that Japan has only two CVs it can build for the rest of the war. So I want to make sure my understanding of this is close to the mark

There might be more in the out years. There is a checkbox for that in the Pools form. The Destroyed Pool is a temporary holding area until the end of turn, when the player can choose to either scrap the destroyed unit or return it to the Force Pool.

The Players Manual describes all the Off-Map Pools. You might want to read through that section. I'm oftentimes tempted to just answer questions with page numbers.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 20

RE: Production costs - 11/17/2013 12:32:31 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

Thanks Steve for the continued help. I checked on the build ahead button and now Japan has lots of CVs to build

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 11/17/2013 1:34:50 AM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 21

RE: Production costs - 11/17/2013 4:01:26 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Finally set up a global war scenerio, what a chore lol. Even with using the pre-setup scripts.

So I am looking at Japan's Force pools at the start of the game. They can only build 2 more CVs, the Junyo and the Hiyo? With the Shokaku completed for the 1st pass. Is that right?

Of course it looks like 5 more CVLs can be built with 5 additional ones already in the Construction pool.

So if these CVs get sunk, I assume they go into the Destroyed pool? The help for the form does not mention this pool at all. Can they be rebuilt from the destroyed pool or once there they are out of the game forever?

It just seems odd for a game starting in 1939 that Japan has only two CVs it can build for the rest of the war. So I want to make sure my understanding of this is close to the mark

warspite1

Where did that come from? As I mentioned above, you can build every CV and CVL that Japan historically built + a load of "what-ifs". Although this is not a WITP-AE style game in terms of TO+E historical accuracy, there is an appropriate framework to ensure things are not too off the wall - you can't build everything straightaway.

The ability to build Japanese CV's, like all naval units is broadly designed to be in line with history. At the start of each year, the units for that year are added to the force pool and you can choose to build - or not - depending upon your goals and cicumstances.

I forget exactly what starts where - e.g. Construction pool, repair pool etc, but during the game you can build:

The two Zuihos, Ryuho, the two Junyos, Taiho, the two Chitoses, one of two versions of both the Shinano and Karyu, the six Unryus, Ibuki, the three Taiyos, Kaiyo and Shinyo. There may be a few more "what-ifs" too.

Yes, if units are sunk you can scrap them or put them in the force pool for building again.

EDIT: Should have read down further