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Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle

 
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Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/5/2013 4:39:43 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline 		There is a supply problem in China for the Japanese player around Nanchang, hex 84,145. I had the Japanese Umezu HQ in Nanchang and found it wouldn't stay in supply, some phases it looked to be in supply while in others it showed as being out of supply. I started Umezu near hex 83,147 and made sure to change all of the Chinese rail lines between there and Nanchang to Japanese control along both rail lines. I even had convoy points in the sea area adjacent to Shanghai and on some turns transports.

Somehow the Umezu HQ was not being allowed to always trace supply back along the now Japanese controlled rail lines back to Shanghai. I even brought in the Terauchi HQ to set up in hex 83,147 so that Umezu could trace a basic supply path of 4 hexes back to Teracuhci and Terauchi could trace a basic supply path of 3 hexes back to Shanghai, leaving one extra hex for sea transport of supply. Even that didn't get supply flowing to Umezu in every phase.

Finally I think it was markb50k who suggested to me to save the game in a Japanese phase, like movement or land combat declaration, in order for the program to recalculate supply for Umezu thus putting him properly in supply and that worked. Unfortunately I discovered that recalculating the supply for Japan in the land combat declaration phase didn't carry over to the combat phase unless you chose that Japanese combat first. I made the mistake of choosing a German combat first and after it concluded I was told the Japanese combat was illegal and cancelled because of no supply.

I was able to finally get my Japanese units in hexes 84,143 and 85,143 to attack Changsha. I was able to have the Yamamoto HQ in supply from Canton all the time but he never traveled more than two hexes from Canton, yet.

There is some kind of map problem between Changsha and Shanghai, somehow the program isn't correctly and reliably tracing supply properly from HQ's around Nanchang to Shanghai along the rail line. Perhaps because there's two adjacent rail lines running along two of the hexes the program is somehow sometimes trying to trace from one rail hex to an adjacent rail hex that's obviously not connected and not always tracing along connected rail lines. I hope this gets fixed soon.

Omnius

< Message edited by Omnius -- 12/5/2013 5:47:16 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/6/2013 9:17:36 PM   
gautebirkeli

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 11/20/2013
From: Richardson, Texas
Status: offline 		I think the problem may be connected to the dirt roads. But it could also have something to do with the overseas supply, as I have seen the same with the BEF in interior France. his particular bug may be annoying, but you can remedy it by saving the game and reloading it.

By the way, I also discovered that burning a supply unit only makes your HQ a supply source after you save and reload the game.

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 2
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 12:52:46 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline 		Dirt roads do not assist in the tracing of supply. They are there to distinguish that resources can be transported along them.

If your HQ is tracing a dirt road, then he is using a basic supply path to the nearest rail line. Due to all the people reporting this issue, I'm guessing it's a bug related to the 'additional Chinese cities' rule, which honestly, if it's been blessed by Harry, shouldn't even be optional because the map is nearly unplayable as a result.

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(in reply to gautebirkeli)
Post #: 3
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 3:56:14 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		No that's not correct. The rules say: "A hex a railway supply path enters, by moving along a railway or road, does not count against the 4 hex limit."

You cannot make a railroad move with a unit along a road, but for supply, the two are synonymous.

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Paul

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 4
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 11:56:44 AM   
Hokum

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: France
Status: offline 		Supply in China/Manchuria for Japan is broken, and I suspect like Zorachu that it has to do with the additional Chinese cities; basically, China is not mapped correctly in the game. I guess we will have to wait for a fix, and restart the game every phases until then. It isn't a problem created by roads, as this picture will show:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 5
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 12:08:08 PM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hokum

Supply in China/Manchuria for Japan is broken, and I suspect like Zorachu that it has to do with the additional Chinese cities; basically, China is not mapped correctly in the game. I guess we will have to wait for a fix, and restart the game every phases until then. It isn't a problem created by roads, as this picture will show:


So, what's not mapped correctly?

(in reply to Hokum)
Post #: 6
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 12:55:20 PM   
Hokum

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: France
Status: offline 		When calculating supply, the game maps China incorrectly.

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 7
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 3:29:41 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Curious on the rationale for the reason being the extra Chinese cities? - they only supply the Chinese - who look OK.

To me, with many reporting that things are fixed by a reload means something is going haywire in terms of generating a supply check, partway through a move.



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Paul

(in reply to Hokum)
Post #: 8
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 3:41:57 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Curious on the rationale for the reason being the extra Chinese cities? - they only supply the Chinese - who look OK.

To me, with many reporting that things are fixed by a reload means something is going haywire in terms of generating a supply check, partway through a move.




I agree with Paul here. Also because I've seen the same thing happening in India/Burma...

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Peter

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 9
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 3:50:20 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		I don't think it is the extra cities that is the cause but the way the system tries to trace a supply path when one of those small lakes is nearby. I've experimented where you can have supply on one side of the lake and not the other because it appears that it might be trying to trace across one of the lake hexsides and not go around it. That's my observations anyways.

The above screenshot is odd though since you would think that supply would be traced down to Canton. I don't play with the overseas supply rule so maybe there is part of the problem too.

I want to add that maybe the system is not dynamically reconfiguring supply routes properly when things change such as bad weather or cutting a supply route. I did that as the Chinese, I cut a friend's rail line up near one of the lakes and every Jap unit in central China went out of supply even though he had several other paths that led to friendly ports.

< Message edited by Sabre21 -- 12/7/2013 4:55:51 PM >

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(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 10
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 5:03:21 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		The lakes aren't an issue here. I have the same problems with a Japanese HQ in Siberia, without any lakes near the HQ and a straight railline towards Manchuria...

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Peter

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 11
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 5:26:25 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

The lakes aren't an issue here. I have the same problems with a Japanese HQ in Siberia, without any lakes near the HQ and a straight railline towards Manchuria...


Sounds like the algorithm should be a bit more greedy?

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 12
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 7:31:10 PM   
Hokum

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

Curious on the rationale for the reason being the extra Chinese cities? - they only supply the Chinese - who look OK.


Because I only saw this problem in China/Manchuria, which, coincidentally, is the only area that can be affected by options. Though if it happens in India/Burma, it obviously can not be the reason.

However, the supply check is not the cause, it is a symptom. But I don't think it is the algorithm, I haven't seen this problem in Europe (I wish Italian convoys could supply german units though...).

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 13
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 7:47:31 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		They can, if the Italians are at war - or should be able to. If not it's a bug.

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Paul

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Post #: 14
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 12/7/2013 8:02:10 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

No that's not correct. The rules say: "A hex a railway supply path enters, by moving along a railway or road, does not count against the 4 hex limit."

You cannot make a railroad move with a unit along a road, but for supply, the two are synonymous.


Thanks for correcting me. My brain cells are getting old...

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 15
RE: Nanchang Japanese Supply Bermuda Triangle - 3/7/2014 6:38:23 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gautebirkeli

I think the problem may be connected to the dirt roads. But it could also have something to do with the overseas supply, as I have seen the same with the BEF in interior France. his particular bug may be annoying, but you can remedy it by saving the game and reloading it.

By the way, I also discovered that burning a supply unit only makes your HQ a supply source after you save and reload the game.

I could use a saved game for the problem with using the Supply Unit if anyone has one available.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to gautebirkeli)
Post #: 16
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