RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG

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RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG

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RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG - 1/22/2014 6:46:30 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel
Well, I was an American tanker now I live in Russia with a father in law who was a Soviet tanker. Weird, I know.

I'm not trying to disrespect dads and fathers-in-law or anything. But comments about what "all" vehicles had or didn't have are too broad. Over the years the equipment of various CatA vs CatB vs CatC units changed, and also among the different Warsaw Pact nations. So I won't argue that some vehicles had radios and some didn't, but either which way at company level the battle drills would have been communicated somehow. And with this game the OPFOR is pretty much modeled at company level contained in a 500m hex, so it's pretty irrelevant HOW the comms worked.

A more fundamental question is who is trying to communicate with who. As I understood it, and I may be misinformed?, the Soviets and Warsaw Pact didn't exactly have an NCO corps like NATO and their platoon leaders were more like our squad leaders. I'm sure many were highly competent, but the overall doctrine of "orders type missions" did not support "mission type orders" so comms were mostly one way conversations from the bn/co commanders down to the squads/vehicles/guns. That unit-level aspect, rather than individual crew comms and gunnery, is much more important to this game's C2 model and limited orders cycles, etc. Of course, this is another can of worms to argue about!

Too many folks seem to get wrapped around the axle scrutinizing any one specific engagement. At the end of the day, a game like this modelling a group of squads/vehicles/guns engaging another group of squads/vehicles/guns over a period of time (ie, several orders cycles) and with variable LOS/LOF and other parameters does a pretty good job of capturing those fundamental doctrinal differences between NATO and Warsaw Pact. For this 1980's Germany game, but even so I've commented on some questionable AI behaviors that don't appear quite right. How well this can be extrapolated to other time periods and adversaries with less well defined doctrines remains to be seen, like banging a WW-III square peg into a WW-II round hole and wanting it to fit perfectly.

(in reply to Russian Heel)

Post #: 91

RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG - 1/22/2014 6:47:29 PM

Russian Heel

Posts: 231
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Metro Station Vasileostrovskaya
Status: offline

Who were you with? I got stuck in the whole transformation from concept to deployment with 1-23 Inf, for a bit before that in 1-33 AR when it was part of 1st Brigade 25 ID.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ferg1234

I can confirm this is still true. When I was deployed to Iraq my entire Stryker platoon wanted to take out our leadership on a daily basis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

All armies of all nations are taught to take out the leaders.

Good Hunting.

MR

quote:

All armies of all nations are taught to take out the leaders.

(in reply to daferg)

Post #: 92

RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG - 1/22/2014 7:25:50 PM

pzgndr

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline

I was in 1st Armd Div at Bamberg, 1987-90. Asst Bde S-4 and then an infantry company commander, still with M113s. In retrospect following Desert Storm, what the US Army was doing during the second half of the 1980s with AirLand Battle doctrine and training to fight to win at the NTC and Hohenfels versus a Soviet-doctrine OPFOR, was pretty good stuff.

(in reply to Russian Heel)

Post #: 93

RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG - 1/24/2014 12:44:25 AM

daferg

Posts: 46
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline

I was in the 56th Stryker Brigade that is in the 28th ID. We replaced the 25th in 2009 around Taji. I do not know what brigade/battalion they were but we replaced an Alpha Company. The 25th Soldiers we replaced were very professional. We were worried how an active duty unit would treat a Guard unit. I think they had been there for 15 months but they took us under their wing and showed us the ropes. I did not talk or work with any officers so I can't speak for them. I buy a beer for any Tropic Lighting vet I run into. My respect is shared by everyone else in my old company.

Sorry for the long winded answer. I try to make a point of telling everybody how great the Soldiers in the 25th were. A 25th Soldier wrote a book about that deployment and we are mentioned in it. The name escapes me but I'll find it.

(in reply to Russian Heel)

Post #: 94

RE: A few points from a real 3ID Tanker from 88-90 in FRG - 1/24/2014 2:41:35 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

ferg1234,

I understand how you feel. I have the same respect for anyone who ever served in the 11th ACR! Not that other units aren't or weren't good. To me personally they stand out.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to daferg)

Post #: 95