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V1 rockets - 1/23/2014 3:10:45 AM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		ok...perhaps I am old and 1/2 blind, ok may be miopic...but, I can't seem to locate what these do...400+ PPs, which is more than my kids (yes plural) college...so what is soooooo good????
And how do u build them...seems very difficult, but mostly I need to know the benefits, range and so on....documentation has Zero...nada, zip, on this subject.

< Message edited by HeadlessHessian -- 1/23/2014 4:22:28 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: V1 rockets - 1/24/2014 2:19:14 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeadlessHessian

ok...perhaps I am old and 1/2 blind, ok may be miopic...but, I can't seem to locate what these do...400+ PPs, which is more than my kids (yes plural) college...so what is soooooo good????
And how do u build them...seems very difficult, but mostly I need to know the benefits, range and so on....documentation has Zero...nada, zip, on this subject.


Funny, it's myopic BTW. Their useless, you've figured it out.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

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RE: V1 rockets - 1/24/2014 2:32:13 AM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		:-) thanks for the correction. English is my second language with Spanish as my first and ...french as my ... distant third, I married into it...so to speak.
No kidding...useless...WTH (H for Heck..or something else). So ... really.... that bad? what do they do? or not?

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RE: V1 rockets - 1/25/2014 3:23:07 AM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HeadlessHessian

:-) thanks for the correction. English is my second language with Spanish as my first and ...french as my ... distant third, I married into it...so to speak.
No kidding...useless...WTH (H for Heck..or something else). So ... really.... that bad? what do they do? or not?


Well I just discovered my own error in English. It's "they're" and not "their" so there. :)

I dunno why they got included in ATG, Bombur made them in his mod and during the ATG development Vic decided to adopt many of the new units

that Bombur had made into ATG. So they were included, mainly for historical flavor.

I suppose one could go extreme and fire a thousand of them at once but I'd say overall you'd be better off with other weapons.

Nobody uses them in H2H games AFAIK.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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RE: V1 rockets - 1/25/2014 6:42:59 PM   
Vic


Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline 		Some of the trooptypes in ATG are just really specialized. You must know when they are a good choice to use. For example v-weapons are an interesting choice if you do not have air superiority but do want to do structural damage behind the enemy lines (for example on airfields).

Scouts are quite much a weapon of harassment on fronts that are not fully occupied and its especially the scouts high supply carry that makes them interesting in making short trips behind enemy lines.

But Jeffrey is right you do not see them used often because they are not the most flexible sf types to use. However I dont agree completely with this flexibility argument and i think part of the key to victory is building an army with specialized branches and having some specialist well trained and ready for if a specific opportunity shows up.

Best,
Vic

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RE: V1 rockets - 1/29/2014 9:36:20 PM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		ok so how do you use them. I created some just to try them out...but I cant figure out how they are used. Can you provide steps please

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Post #: 6
RE: V1 rockets - 1/29/2014 10:31:32 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		I believe you use strategic bombing to send them to target?

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RE: V1 rockets - 1/30/2014 1:22:58 AM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		Actually No, I found out quite by accident. first you have to have it in an airbase...ok that makes sense. but what you have to do is click on the Air Recon mission button!!!!! Don't ask why. :-) and away you go.
cheers all

Joe

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Post #: 8
RE: V1 rockets - 2/2/2014 9:05:10 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Are you serious? Air recon for V1 rockets? Up till now I have always used the Strategic Bombing button for the rockets. Place them in an airfield (note do not overstack them) and hit a town within reach and do some structural damage. Never used the recon button for that. However if you for instance use the recon button with a fighter group and then that fighter group gets intercepted by enemy fighter also a battle may occur, so that may be the case with the rockets as well?

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Post #: 9
RE: V1 rockets - 2/2/2014 6:06:58 PM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		Quite interesting....The first time I tried it did not work the way you stated it. yes I had them at an airbase etc, but pehaps it had to do with first time you receive and use them, or maybe it was becasue I may have had them mixed with another unit.
Anyhow I just tried it the way you said, and it worked, so I am quite puzzled, but not enough puzzled to go back and try to figure it out. As a retired computer programmer it bothers me to find such things and not do anything about it. :-)
By the way....is the upgrade to the next version of the V weapon worth it? The ones I have now do little damage and I need 15 gazilllion of them to make a dent anywhere. So before I spend the absurd amount of PPs...I ask, is it worth it?

thanks for the comment.

cheers

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Post #: 10
RE: V1 rockets - 2/2/2014 8:27:46 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Is it worth it... well for gameflavour I'd say yes just so you can have V1's. Against the AI you don't really need them, heavy arty or strategic bombers are way way more efficient. Especially the arty or the bombers have a massive exp benefit, artillery gains exp rather quick and that makes them a real killer. Strategic bombers also have the benefit of a huge range, although they can be shot down by Flak or fighters.
Also the rockets need an airbase close to the front (just like planes ofcourse) but have the drawback that you can only use them against infrastructure whereas fighters can be used against anything (if you have the oil...)

Furthermore V1's start with exp 10 (like everything else does) and gain slowly up till fourty...that's it. 40 and no more. Meaning their effectivenes will be never as good as an experienced fighter. Now you might ask "why do rockets have to have experience" Beats me, all I can say it does make a difference if you attack with a stack of 10 exp rockets or the same stack with 40 exp. (at least that was the case I last played it a few months ago, maybe it has changed with the latest patch). And to make things worse the cities/towns/ airfields the AI has regains infrastructure way way faster than for a human player. You can check that out if you check the "rebuild" capacity of said infrastructures..it may state that it's something like 200-300 points but the AI manages to repair 500 or more. (obviously the AI needs some help and I can agree with that)

So long story short; rockets are a cool addition to have, but you really don't need them against the AI. If and when facing a well defended human player (you know the one who has Flak and fighters all over the place) they come in handy as a nasty surpise...as in *boom* there goes his airfield.

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Post #: 11
RE: V1 rockets - 2/2/2014 8:37:12 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Oh forgot your question about is the upgrade worth it. IMHO no. They fly further and do more damage but still no match for experienced strategic bombers. Never had the situation to fight a human player on very large maps though, so then maybe yes but I doubt it. Inf, Arty, tanks planes flak and AT guns now you want them to upgrade ASAP...but rockets are way way more expensive to upgrade.
They do little damage as you say because they are hampered by their exp cap... they should come with exp 100 right out of the factory. Then make a stack of 10 and blast away, but like I said the AI is capable of rebuilding that city within one turn.

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Post #: 12
RE: V1 rockets - 2/3/2014 12:45:28 AM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		Ok well I am up against a human player. Its a scenario where I've kicked him off of the continent and now he is holed up in his island with tons of air support and a navy...much like England and Nazi Germany. So me strategy is to hit him with rockets at his airbases and cities that I can reach with said rockets. That is why I was asking if it was worth to upgrade to the next level of the V1 rockets, which is 800 plus PPs.
In the meantime I plan to upgrade my airforce then hit him hard followed by the actual invasions...yes plural.

your "Boom" there goes his airfield is exactly what I am looking to do. I just tested 16 V1 against a costal city he has...and did damage. Lets see his reaction...hehehehehe

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Post #: 13
RE: V1 rockets - 2/3/2014 10:57:03 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Cool. Taking a well defended island may take a while, it can be a long and hard slog. But if you can afford it you can indeed pulverize his infrastructure with rockets, note that BB's (battleships) can be quite devastating too and please do have some high level cruisers as well with them to prevent your precious BB's from being bombed by torpedo bombers. Blast away with everything you have and then when you finally see his readiness levels drop go in for the kill; your amphibious invasion. (you do need an engineer unit or two each consisting of 40-50 engineers to build that harbour you need to get supplies for your invasion force)

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Post #: 14
RE: V1 rockets - 2/3/2014 2:24:36 PM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		He has Kamekazes...ugh...the last couple of turns I've been testing his defences at different spots to see how well he has constructed his defences. I've built about 6 air factories that will churn out nothing but V1s. :-)
One of the things I am looking at doing is to disable an airfield and then hit it with regular bombers to catch his air while it is on the grownd. I also plan to have carriers near his coast loaded with fighters.
Oil I have more than I need. It is raw materials where the key is. My oil is over 100,000 at the moment and raw is at 1200, but that (raw) gets spent each turn.
Thanks for the advise, it will be well taken.

cheers

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Post #: 15
RE: V1 rockets - 2/3/2014 2:29:34 PM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		Oh by the by, I think the experience thing may have to do with the 'experience' of the 'ground crew' that fueled it, aimed it etc. After all these were based on the rocket running out of fuel, at leas the ones in WW2, instead of the precise ones delveloped since WW2.
But yes they are cool specifically since I don't think he has a clue how I'm hitting him and his air has not shot down anything!! Ha!

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Post #: 16
RE: V1 rockets - 2/4/2014 3:03:34 PM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Raw at 1200 is a bit low yes, but so can your opponents Raw mines be crippled.
You *did* upgrade your Raw mines yes? And you're sure your opponent doesn't have a "suprise party" up his sleeve? Meaning a airborne/seaborne assault where you don't expect it? (now that would ruin things wouldn't it?)

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Post #: 17
RE: V1 rockets - 2/4/2014 4:00:02 PM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		All of my mines are at level 3. Yes I have been dumping on his resources. Nope no surprises...ports are blocked and interior lands are garrisoned. The invasion has begun. I have 4 slots prepared, the first one just started to draw him there, then the other 3 will occur one turn appart. It will drive him nuts.

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Post #: 18
RE: V1 rockets - 2/5/2014 9:32:21 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Looks like the endgame for your opponent then. I wonder if he will be expecting multiple invasions and if he has some last lines of defense/reserves.
I really really appreciate those players that go on until the end, I've seen many that surrender after some point in the game (because they can't "win" but imho you can also "win" by putting up a valiant defense, it's all about "playing and enjoying" the game and not necessarily winning the game)

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Post #: 19
RE: V1 rockets - 2/5/2014 2:37:26 PM   
HeadlessHessian


Posts: 231
Joined: 12/29/2013
Status: offline 		First landing was repulsed in two turns as it was too far from good aircover and his flak was nasty. The second landing completed its mission of capturing Raw supply mine, and the third is on its way inland, has built a port, and captured an airfield. Appears to have worked.
How does supply work after an invasion? I have built a few HQs to carry supplies and that seems to work, but it is a bit tedious. I presume that there is a way to get it to work via port.
Also how come units I land at the port do not have APs to move forward on the same turn? Is that the way the game is structured or am I doing something wrong.
Thanks for all your replies and comments.

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Post #: 20
RE: V1 rockets - 2/6/2014 6:50:05 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		Normally when units are disembarked from transports they do not have AP on the turn they hit the ground. If the hex is enemy occupied, there will be a fight from which the invading unit cannot retreat from. There are attack penalties for the invading unit during that initial round.

For supply, I always bring an HQ with the invasion force and either target a coastal city, port or bring engineers to make a port ASAP. Once landed, the Hq will automagically draw supply through the port or captured city. Unless playing some of the hardcore logisics mods that is, then all bets are off and you better study up on how they work.

Once a city in the invaded territory is captured, I immediately assign the production of the city to my invasion force Hq. Typically I will assign all production to supply for a few turns to see where the supply status stands once the new city starts adding to the invasion force.

If the invasion is going well, I will then start to use the captured city for building more units if possible.



_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

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Post #: 21
RE: V1 rockets - 2/7/2014 8:50:25 AM   
Josh

 

Posts: 2576
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Like Jeff says, supply should flow automagically and please do include an HQ with your invading forces (that is don't leave that one at home if you find out your amphibious force is too large for your cargoships). The moment you see your troops ashore with a red button (meaning no supply) you know you have done something wrong somewhere.
Remember what I said about having an (S-)HQ in a port? If that HQ has cargoships in it than it is possible to send supply to another HQ located in a port via strategic transport. Just like you would move an unit from port to port with the strategic transport using your cargoships capacity, you can also send supply from port to port. Only to HQ's though, it doesn't work if you send it directly to an unit.

On cargoships; every ship has a carrying capacity, just like trucks and halftracks or even tanks (tankriders). You'll find out that the "bigger" your unit the more cargoships you'll need to transport it, especially tanks and artillery need lots of cargospace, because they are so big. But no matter *how many* cargoships you put in that amphibious fleet, it won't hold more than 6 subunits (6 I think, might be 7 or so) Even if you have 50 cargoships in your cargoship unit it won't hold more than that 6 or 7 subunits. So better split that into 4 or 5 cargoship units, 10 or 12 cargoships will hold just about anything. Bloated HQ's with lots of supply and staff and what not are sometimes so big they need a special cargoship unit, a cargoship deluxe so to speak

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Post #: 22
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