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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/2/2015 3:05:22 AM

DanSez

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It is those danged midget submarines. Can't trust'em.

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Post #: 3901

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/2/2015 7:18:40 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez

It is those danged midget submarines. Can't trust'em.

My jaw act actually dropped when the message came up for penetrating the harbor, and then I had a big evil Empire take over the world laugh when the xap showed up, and then silence when the torpedo failure was announced. I have moved onto grief.

Round the world in 2 seconds.

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Post #: 3902

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/3/2015 2:30:31 AM

Lowpe

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Nov 22, 1943

No night bombing.

Allies are at the end of the Tuang Gyi road, cutting off Chiang Mai.

Not unexpected, and the defenders north of Uttardit are strong now with over 1000 AV including ART, and the 1st Tank.

Chungking will be deliberately attacked on the morrow, 6000 AV of IJA will throw themselves against the fort.

Normal heavy Allied bombing, except in the Marianas, makes me wonder if he is short supplies and he underestimated how hungry for supplies airforce and troops can be.

The first Ki202 factory reaches the halfway point of 15 repaired.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/3/2015 3:31:48 AM >

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Post #: 3903

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/3/2015 5:21:27 PM

Lowpe

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Slight change in some of my retreat paths, more troops are going to stop at Badelboab and Yap too. If those bases go, then the Allies can really hinder my retreat plans.

I am setting up my latest strategies...sub attacks...primarily, but trying to get destroyers to a point were they can do something in the upcoming dark of the moon. 21percent now.

I also have a handful of MTB, I will wait for them to get to 0 percent moonlight and have them putter into Tinian at a stately 21 knots.

Or perhaps I will save them for closer to the HI.

Keep on keeping on, full retreat from PM, Solomons, New Guinea...

Starting to air evacuate Chiang Mai...and Trinkat...

Plane pools of fighters doing well...just need better ones someday.

BTW, I am seriously out of IJN pilots, but I keep filling up my training squadrons anyhow, the engine seems to pull them forward and it seems there is no HI cost for doing this. A fair amount of LowN training going on right now...

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Post #: 3904

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/3/2015 5:59:43 PM

Alfred

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Don't completely evacuate Chiang Mai. That base becoming Allied will considerably shorten the logistical tail for the Allied PanzerArmee when it arrives at the holding line north of Uttradit. That line will not hold if the Allied logistical tail is short but it might hold for a reasonable length of time if it is long as your own will be short. Same applies to holding Moulmein.

Alfred

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Post #: 3905

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 4:22:04 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Don't completely evacuate Chiang Mai.� That base becoming Allied will considerably shorten the logistical tail for the Allied PanzerArmee when it arrives at the holding line north of Uttradit.� That line will not hold if the�Allied logistical tail is short but it might hold� for a reasonable length of time if it is long as your own will be short.� Same applies to holding Moulmein.

Alfred

Thanks Alfred.

I had thought to leave troops at both, force the Allies to move in attack as to delay them longer. Chiang Mai if it can get enough supplies has the potential to hold out the longest since it will take the Allies a long time to march there.

I am also sending a unit of infantry cross country to cut the Allied supply line to the Panzer Army. Seems like they are making 9km a day in the tough terrain.

I hope to slow him down some north of Uttaradit, and I am heavily fortifying Raheng and Uttaradit. Once they fall, it will be helter skelter back to Vinh or the long retreat to Singers. If I can hold long enough here, and with a little luck take Chungking, I will be in much better shape.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 4:28:09 PM

Lowpe

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I am debating about starting a Thalia factory...little longer legs for an Army transport.

I would love to use my Emilies offensively, so many opportunities to hit the Allies by surprise with them, but they are so busy moving troops. In a few days I get another Sentai of them. I think I might rest the Emilies for a day or two and then use them offensively before sending them back to the troop transport role.

A sharp attack against of a concentration of AOs with no fighter support...yum, too good to pass up. Hopefully they are full, and will burn, and slow the tempo of the Allies down a little. Any little bit would help.

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Post #: 3907

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 4:47:21 PM

Lowpe

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Once again I am stealing help and advice from the best scenario 1 game I know of -- Obvert's.

Here is the pool/production shot from game end. You can see Obvert at some point switched from the Armored Helen back to Thalia, has to be for the longer legs or possible engine? Not sure which.

Tabby is a huge beast, but my goodness did he make a lot of transports over all. I am not nearly that ramped up. I suspect as the perimeter shrinks they get increasingly vulnerable to enemy bombers and work harder.

I am now 99 percent sure I will start some Thalia production...and will examine the Tabby versus the Emily L more closely.

Anybody have a use for the Ka-1? Struggling with that one.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/4/2015 5:49:34 PM >

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 5:27:53 PM

Lowpe

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Little more look at transports:

IJN: 9 total squadrons with only 2 currently active (one of which is a size 6 Emily L squadron). A lot of the Tabby or Betty L reinforcement squadrons can't upgrade to Emily L according to Tracker. I have a squadron of 27 Tina's pulling troops out of Kusaie -- got to love the range.

So I think I need both Tabby and Betty L for the Navy. The Betty L has great range and defensive guns if they do anything, while the Tabby has 9K payload. Emily L for float usage flexibility plus long legs and largest capacity.

IJA: 19 Squadrons all on the map..I will add Thalia to 3-4 squadrons to get some longer legs, but stick with KAI Helen for most use.

Patrols: I want to move all these from the patrol or transport use to long range bombing or night naval strike. I have used them in both those roles already and most times get valuable information (hitting a BB in Madras for example). I can use other planes for long range recon (I still have Nells in the pools) Judy C with drop tanks is solid and even some Dinah IIIs. It is the transporting troops where I will miss them, but that is life as Japan...choices. Plus more IJN navy transport squadrons are coming online (1 each month for the next 3 months).

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/4/2015 6:29:56 PM >

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Post #: 3909

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 6:13:42 PM

Yaab

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Slight change in some of my retreat paths, more troops are going to stop at Badelboab and Yap too. If those bases go, then the Allies can really hinder my retreat plans.

I am setting up my latest strategies...sub attacks...primarily, but trying to get destroyers to a point were they can do something in the upcoming dark of the moon. 21percent now.

I also have a handful of MTB, I will wait for them to get to 0 percent moonlight and have them putter into Tinian at a stately 21 knots. Or perhaps I will save them for closer to the HI.

Keep on keeping on, full retreat from PM, Solomons, New Guinea...

Starting to air evacuate Chiang Mai...and Trinkat...

Plane pools of fighters doing well...just need better ones someday.

BTW, I am seriously out of IJN pilots, but I keep filling up my training squadrons anyhow, the engine seems to pull them forward and it seems there is no HI cost for doing this. A fair amount of LowN training going on right now...

Interesting.

I know the Japanese MTBs have torps with the range of 2,000 feet, so low moonlight is a given for successful attacks. However, moonlight is not the sole variable. I have saved some weather reports from my USN PT skirmishes off Luzon and was pleasantly surprised with low visibility in high moonlight.

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 100% moonlight: 6,000 yards

Reduced sighting due to 53% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 53% moonlight: 1,000 yards

Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 64% moonlight: 1,000 yards

Reduced sighting due to 64% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 64% moonlight: 3,000 yards

As you can see, you should OK in Overcast weather and 50-60% moonlight.

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Post #: 3910

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 6:48:03 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab
I know the Japanese MTBs have torps with the range of 2,000 feet, so low moonlight is a given for successful attacks.

Has anyone had a successful attack with MTBs? Their slow speed and short range are simply to hard to overcome, but I will try.

I suspect their use would have been better timed to go in with other surface ships and aerial attacks the following day. They would die, but perhaps they would eat up AA ammo or and op points so something else could get thru or disrupt landings, cause collisions, etc. This is one reason I may not use them, and save them for when he comes calling closer the HI.

That is really nice info on sighting distances. Thanks for sharing.

I am really turning into the combined ops person...try to time everything into a perfect storm.

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Post #: 3911

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 6:55:44 PM

Yaab

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If you still hold Umboi Island you could try massing MTBs there. With its small port and about 200 Naval Support you should be able to reload the torps there. Attack with MTBs and reload, look for Overcast weather. The Allies can crawl along New Guinea's coast N of Umboi, while you hold the island and harass their shipping.

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Post #: 3912

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/4/2015 10:13:12 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Little more look at transports:

IJN: 9 total squadrons with only 2 currently active (one of which is a size 6 Emily L squadron). A lot of the Tabby or Betty L reinforcement squadrons can't upgrade to Emily L according to Tracker. I have a squadron of 27 Tina's pulling troops out of Kusaie -- got to love the range.

So I think I need both Tabby and Betty L for the Navy. The Betty L has great range and defensive guns if they do anything, while the Tabby has 9K payload. Emily L for float usage flexibility plus long legs and largest capacity.

IJA: 19 Squadrons all on the map..I will add Thalia to 3-4 squadrons to get some longer legs, but stick with KAI Helen for most use.

Patrols: I want to move all these from the patrol or transport use to long range bombing or night naval strike. I have used them in both those roles already and most times get valuable information (hitting a BB in Madras for example). I can use other planes for long range recon (I still have Nells in the pools) Judy C with drop tanks is solid and even some Dinah IIIs. It is the transporting troops where I will miss them, but that is life as Japan...choices. Plus more IJN navy transport squadrons are coming online (1 each month for the next 3 months).

I think you need Tabby and Emily transports. The Betty version is nice and all, but remember - you aren't going to use THAT many transports. Why waste resources repairing more factories than you need? You only have 9 squadrons in total...

Then again, maybe the Tabby is just too similar to the Thalia/Topsy (I like the Topsy-II because it carries TWO points of supplies

). I also produce some KAI Helens because of its higher lift, allowing me to transport more men/guns and at a similar range to the Topsy. Also, it uses an uncommon engine that you will already be producing anyway, which eases production headaches just a little bit as you can keep producing the Ha-34 once you transition to making the Peggy instead of the Helen bomber.

I think that once you have the G3M3 and all those Judy-C and Dinah-III groups, you can totally use the Patrol planes as..... transports, not bombers. You've already got Nells that poke out 23 hexes on strike. You risk flying straight into a CAP, even if it's just FM-1's, and your Patrol planes cost twice as much to produce. Just use the Nells.

That's my 2 pieces of northern plunder.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 4/4/2015 11:14:09 PM >

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Post #: 3913

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/5/2015 2:09:31 AM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Little more look at transports:

IJN: 9 total squadrons with only 2 currently active (one of which is a size 6 Emily L squadron). A lot of the Tabby or Betty L reinforcement squadrons can't upgrade to Emily L according to Tracker. I have a squadron of 27 Tina's pulling troops out of Kusaie -- got to love the range.

So I think I need both Tabby and Betty L for the Navy. The Betty L has great range and defensive guns if they do anything, while the Tabby has 9K payload. Emily L for float usage flexibility plus long legs and largest capacity.

IJA: 19 Squadrons all on the map..I will add Thalia to 3-4 squadrons to get some longer legs, but stick with KAI Helen for most use.

Patrols: I want to move all these from the patrol or transport use to long range bombing or night naval strike. I have used them in both those roles already and most times get valuable information (hitting a BB in Madras for example). I can use other planes for long range recon (I still have Nells in the pools) Judy C with drop tanks is solid and even some Dinah IIIs. It is the transporting troops where I will miss them, but that is life as Japan...choices. Plus more IJN navy transport squadrons are coming online (1 each month for the next 3 months).

I think you need Tabby and Emily transports. The Betty version is nice and all, but remember - you aren't going to use THAT many transports. Why waste resources repairing more factories than you need? You only have 9 squadrons in total...

Then again, maybe the Tabby is just too similar to the Thalia/Topsy (I like the Topsy-II because it carries TWO points of supplies ). I also produce some KAI Helens because of its higher lift, allowing me to transport more men/guns and at a similar range to the Topsy. Also, it uses an uncommon engine that you will already be producing anyway, which eases production headaches just a little bit as you can keep producing the Ha-34 once you transition to making the Peggy instead of the Helen bomber.

I think that once you have the G3M3 and all those Judy-C and Dinah-III groups, you can totally use the Patrol planes as..... transports, not bombers. You've already got Nells that poke out 23 hexes on strike. You risk flying straight into a CAP, even if it's just FM-1's, and your Patrol planes cost twice as much to produce. Just use the Nells.

That's my 2 pieces of northern plunder.

Northern plunder...

Have to pretty much make Tabbys or go back to Tina's I think and Tabby carries more than 4 times what a Tina does.

Nells need level 4 air bases, whereas the Emily only needs supply right? A little easier to stage behind the lines strikes with.

Just thinking out loud here, I also like Norms in that role too -- their bombs are good enough for transports.

I have a mothballed size 9 Glen factory that might go to Betties, however, I have 5 months to decide, heck by then I will fighting in the HI anyhow.

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Post #: 3914

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/5/2015 10:51:26 AM

Spidery

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All the IJN transport groups I have received so far have the option to upgrade to the Emily L (PDU on).

Apart from the cost, the downside is that with SR 4 they can build up a lot of plane fatigue that takes a long time to fix. Big benefit is that they can fly troops into a base where the airfield has been destroyed which land based transports don't seem to.

I standardised on the Ki-49-II KAI and H8K2-L with the other models just being used up or for training. Wish I had kept a few more H6K4-L around to use their even longer range.

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Post #: 3915

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/5/2015 12:23:00 PM

Lowpe

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Nov 23, 1943

No night bombing, Guam bombarded by Allies.

Pretty quiet day, normal Allied bombing at Moulmein, but that is about it.

The IJA launches a deliberate attack at Chungking, knocks forts down to 4, and the Divisions there take a beating, but will do it all over again in another week. I have several divisions outside that can rotate in, need this win...as long as I keep knocking the forts down I am happy.

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Post #: 3916

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/5/2015 12:26:49 PM

Lowpe

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Allies clear the Tuang Gyi road, my defenders retreat to Chiang Mai as expected. If supply can get there, it will be a little festung. The hex north of Uttaradit is up to a strong 1300AV and forts 2 with the 1st Tank Division there.

800 more AV at Uttaradit, 800 at Bangkok resting...I think the Allies really lost a great opportunity to make great strides here and over at Moulmein.

I wonder if the Allies will turn and focus on Chiang Mai or head south to Uttaradit?

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/5/2015 1:13:17 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidery

All the IJN transport groups I have received so far have the option to upgrade to the Emily L (PDU on).

Good to know

I have run into this problem before, where the upgrade path isn't 100% correct with reinforcement groups. Don't know why, perhaps something to do with my tracker settings.

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Post #: 3918

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 1:10:18 PM

Lowpe

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Not too much going on: setting up another bombardment run at Great and Cap Nicobar. The Allies keep flying in more and more units and troops. If I can keep them damaged, so as to keep the airfield below size 4 I will be pretty happy. Great Nicobar is size 1, while Cap Nicobar is size 3 (getting scary).

Just frantically moving troops and supplies.

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Post #: 3919

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 1:55:05 PM

Malagant

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quote:

If supply can get there, it will be a little festung.

How is supply going to get there? You flying it in?

_____________________________

"La Garde meurt, elle ne se rend pas!"

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Post #: 3920

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 2:38:59 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

quote:

If supply can get there, it will be a little festung.

How is supply going to get there? You flying it in?

Flying it in is obviously the best way, and a fair amount go there before the rail was cut too. Some small amount might trickle once a week.

(in reply to Malagant)

Post #: 3921

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 6:46:57 PM

Sangeli

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To be perfectly honest, I don't see you taking Chungking. Even if you manage to bring down the forts the Chinese still have an enormous quantity of units you need to defeat and the Allies already have control of Burma. Luckily it will take some time before the Allies can relieve it. But I would still think about some plans to disengage from Chungking to meet the Allied army marching into China from Burma. Perhaps it would be worth buying out some of the most depleted units from the assault and sending them to defensive positions in the Pacific.

It looks like your line has stabilized a bit at the Moulmein line as I had hoped it could. But I think your idea to turn Chiang Mai into a festung is flawed. I don't really see any problem with the Allies simply bypassing the base; it sits astride the main supply route and the air base is of little value. The Allies could keep you hemmed in there easily as you have to cross a river into jungle to escape. If the Allies are really stopped at Moulmein, he could also send a stack east towards Chiang Mai to approach the base from the west and have to deal with a river crossing (and likely have better supply I might add). Only a direct over the river from the SE would vindicate the Festung plans I think; that attack would incur heavy casualties and prevent the stack from advancing SE. Lets see if your opponent will make such a mistake...

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Post #: 3922

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 6:52:15 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

To be perfectly honest, I don't see you taking Chungking. Even if you manage to bring down the forts the Chinese still have an enormous quantity of units you need to defeat and the Allies already have control of Burma. Luckily it will take some time before the Allies can relieve it. But I would still think about some plans to disengage from Chungking to meet the Allied army marching into China from Burma. Perhaps it would be worth buying out some of the most depleted units from the assault and sending them to defensive positions in the Pacific.

It looks like your line has stabilized a bit at the Moulmein line as I had hoped it could. But I think your idea to turn Chiang Mai into a festung is flawed. I don't really see any problem with the Allies simply bypassing the base; it sits astride the main supply route and the air base is of little value. The Allies could keep you hemmed in there easily as you have to cross a river into jungle to escape. If the Allies are really stopped at Moulmein, he could also send a stack east towards Chiang Mai to approach the base from the west and have to deal with a river crossing (and likely have better supply I might add). Only a direct over the river from the SE would vindicate the Festung plans I think; that attack would incur heavy casualties and prevent the stack from advancing SE. Lets see if your opponent will make such a mistake...

I agree, mostly.

I would still try a few attacks at Chungking to see how it goes. How is your position near Kunming and Kweiyang? At Chungking, at worst you will be able to buy out a few units to send to places like the Bonins, Okinawa, and Luzon. But the upside is tremendous if you can break through his forts. He has little enough in place in terms of units...

However, if he only has 3K AV at Chungking - where's the rest of the Chinese army?

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Post #: 3923

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 7:06:10 PM

Lowpe

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The Chiang Mai festung was meant tongue in cheek!

As I really can't get any of the heavy artillery or tanks out of there. It is going to get bypassed...

I am going to give it the college try at Chungking I think...I have a month maybe.

I have about 50 units cutoff, and unfortunately about 20 units just headed west to Kunming.

I am building up the defences there...

I doubt Moulmein holds, I can't for the life of me see why he hasn't crossed.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 3924

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/6/2015 8:30:39 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I would still try a few attacks at Chungking to see how it goes. How is your position near Kunming and Kweiyang? At Chungking, at worst you will be able to buy out a few units to send to places like the Bonins, Okinawa, and Luzon. But the upside is tremendous if you can break through his forts. He has little enough in place in terms of units...

I think we are in agreement here; I never said call off the attacks. A couple of good dice rolls could get the base.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
I doubt Moulmein holds, I can't for the life of me see why he hasn't crossed.

A shock attack across the river could result in a divisions worth of destroyed squads. Given the very limited rifle squad pools, I probably wouldn't cross either. But Port Blair is Allied and there is fighting in the Nicobar islands; The Allies have you outflanked and are working to increase that leverage. Allies have tons of CVEs coming online at this time as well to cover a landing at Tavoy or Victoria point. A landing at Tavoy is especially problematic because he can march on Bangkok and cut off everything near Moulmein. But that's a hard move to counter and you shouldn't outright pull back from Moumein.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 3925

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/8/2015 4:12:56 PM

Lowpe

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Nov 24, 1943

Very quiet day, normal Allied bombing, etc. Stepping up the bombing of Chungking. I will attack again in a day or two more.

Just moving troops heavily. I did start up a Thalia factory for a little longer legged Army transports.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 3926

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/8/2015 5:47:23 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Nov 24, 1943

Very quiet day, normal Allied bombing, etc. Stepping up the bombing of Chungking. I will attack again in a day or two more.

Just moving troops heavily. I did start up a Thalia factory for a little longer legged Army transports.

Wow, your AAR update is almost identical to mine today. And you're exactly a year ahead of me:

quote:

November 24th 1942

Very quiet day. IJN planes hit Nanumea in the CentPac, IJA planes hit Cox's Bazaar in Burma, and USAAF 4E bombers hit Buna in New Guinea. No air to air battles at all.

I know its completely OT but c'mon what are the chances?

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Post #: 3927

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/8/2015 10:36:11 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Nov 24, 1943

Very quiet day, normal Allied bombing, etc. Stepping up the bombing of Chungking. I will attack again in a day or two more.

Just moving troops heavily. I did start up a Thalia factory for a little longer legged Army transports.

Wow, your AAR update is almost identical to mine today. And you're exactly a year ahead of me:

quote:

November 24th 1942

Very quiet day. IJN planes hit Nanumea in the CentPac, IJA planes hit Cox's Bazaar in Burma, and USAAF 4E bombers hit Buna in New Guinea. No air to air battles at all.

I know its completely OT but c'mon what are the chances?

A quiet Nov 42 is easier to understand than a quiet Nov 43.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 3928

RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/8/2015 10:40:53 PM

Lowpe

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Nov 25, 1943

No night air attacks.

A Yank sub of Manila nails an xak carrying a fragment of a Naval guard unit. Escorts pick up the swimmers. There are about 7 subs plying the waters there about, another 7 along the Chinese coast, and several everywhere else.

Relatively quiet day for Allies bombing, the Allies lose 6 skytrains to op losses, but they cross the river east of Moulmein with 4 Divisions and 1 Corp booting out the Japanese defenders there. Time to fall back to the JR road paths.

In good news we continue to evacuate, but not really fast enough. The KI-202 repairs 7 factories in 4 days...which is solid. However, I am doubting my ability to protect those r&d factories.

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(in reply to Lowpe)

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/9/2015 6:15:13 AM

obvert

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So the stand at Moulmein has bought some time. That's good.

Which direction are his troops showing movement now? Since he didn't bring the whole army you have some interesting options. One is to start something moving to the same hex he's in from Moulmein. That could mean he'd have to move to shore the hex up from the rear, taking more time. I'm guessing he assumed you'd move out once he'd gained this hex, but if you don't it presents him problems.

You could also start more unit toward the river-crossed hex to see if you can beat him through the hexside. Make him wait, attack, and have to start over again later.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

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