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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/22/2015 6:09:08 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I watched several engagements with the Irving S too, and my fighters dived on the enemy bombers and then attacked from below when they actually started firing.

Now, the enemy bombers I attacked where around 8-10K.

Despite your having 80 percent on cap only 3 were airborne, and 7 more scrambled. Good looking morale and fatigue, nice leader, fatigue low.

I have noticed the Irving S runs out of ammo really quickly, and doesn't do well against 4Es, the only thing I can suggest is using better experienced pilots. I am using Tracom exclusively, and have only lost pilots to enemy daytime bombing runs, not a single one lost defending an airbase in A2A.

Or lower the percentage CAP, and fly them higher, around 15, 20K. That way they won't close and die, but still be present to disrupt the night bombing attack a little. I hope you have a lot of 20mm FLAK there!

I don't think Judy will do much for your with 2 rifle caliber machine guns.




Perhaps/probably not. However, it might be a decent night escort, if that's even possible .

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4051
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/22/2015 6:16:27 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Perhaps/probably not. However, it might be a decent night escort, if that's even possible .


Nope, no night escorts.

You never know, it might be surprising. But I am happy you will find out first hand and not me.!

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 4052
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/22/2015 6:35:17 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Perhaps/probably not. However, it might be a decent night escort, if that's even possible .


Nope, no night escorts.

You never know, it might be surprising. But I am happy you will find out first hand and not me.!


They are cheaper to make, so if I'm going for simple raid disruption, that might be fine. Definitely can't expect them to be shooting down any 4Es.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4053
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/23/2015 9:59:34 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
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Status: offline 		In my experience 85% of Allied 4E losses at night are from OPS. The rest is flak. Very seldom see any outright A2A losses.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 4054
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/23/2015 10:51:47 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

In my experience 85% of Allied 4E losses at night are from OPS. The rest is flak. Very seldom see any outright A2A losses.


Might be the case from the Allied side, but NF pilots are credited with kills, so even those that appear as ops losses might be a result of NF engagements and be listed kills for NF pilots. Flak will almost certainly play a bigger part in DBB than it did in our game, but I think this is scenario 1 so very similar.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4055
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/23/2015 12:35:51 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Some of the posts at the end of Obvert's AAR are really informative about NF kills. Despite flying a majority of Irvings, the Frances was the killer -- it was a pity that only one squadron flew for Obver if I recall correctly.

I think if Obvert would have gone whole hog into Frances it could have been a different night war...not to mention coming very late to the Army nightfighters.

I am hoping to force the Allies into a night campaign and really doing well. Of course, that just means he uses the B29 to bomb troops and the pace of his territorial acquisitions pick up speed. As Japan, it is very hard to win!

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Post #: 4056
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/23/2015 12:46:02 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Dec 15, 1943

No night bombing.

No forts destroyed at Chungking. Did destroy 200+ squads, and will attack again in 4-6 days. Destroyed 3 units.

I am going to move a squadron of Myojo there and try a divebombing attack with the next deliberate attack.

Normal heavy bombing in Indochina.

A sentai of Lilly IIc divebomb some PT boats at Cap Nicobar and miss. Forgot I had them on naval strike and the Oscar sentai with them didn't fly. Lucky there was no cap.

Today, I am sweeping and bombing Port Blair. I think I have enough Franks now to dedicate 2-3 squadrons to sweeping in Indochina, Andamans. Combined with airfield strikes, where vulnerable, I hope to keep destroying Allied planes.

Having multiple airfields on railroads make Indochina a great place to do hit and run sweeps and raids.

In my Army mix of fighters, I probably have too many Oscar IVs, and not enough Ki100i for base defence versus bombers. I am not sure it is even worth using the Oscar IV in the anti-bomber role. Versus sweep and escorting pretty good, but against bombers not so much.





(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4057
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/23/2015 2:02:47 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

In my experience 85% of Allied 4E losses at night are from OPS. The rest is flak. Very seldom see any outright A2A losses.


Might be the case from the Allied side, but NF pilots are credited with kills, so even those that appear as ops losses might be a result of NF engagements and be listed kills for NF pilots. Flak will almost certainly play a bigger part in DBB than it did in our game, but I think this is scenario 1 so very similar.


I always assign the first real NF squadron the Allies get, the P70 to exclusive night CAP at a locale that is receiving regular night bombing. In 3-4 months the squadron typically has at least 15-20 kills.

I find that non-radar equipped fighters rarely get kills when assigned to night CAP, but real night fighters do.

The Beaufighter VIf comes in a bit later but has been nearly as effective as the P70s.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/23/2015 3:03:30 PM >

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Hans


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Post #: 4058
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/23/2015 2:31:19 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Hans,

There is a little difference between a B29 and Frances. I had hoped the Betty 3A with all the cannons could knock down some night fighters, but I haven't used night bombing a lot.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/23/2015 3:32:23 PM >

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Post #: 4059
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 2:48:29 AM   
Lowpe


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No night bombing.

What a thoroughly unpleasant surprise at Port Blair. Souped up Spitfires. There ought to be a law against them.

I end up losing a fair amount of Oscars, they were escorting Betties on a strike against PT boats of all things. At least one sentai of Georges swept first, and I downed a half dozen of the new Spits, plus some older ones, plus some other odds and ends. Bombers got thru to hit Port Blair's airfield a little, and destroyed on the ground and op damages added in some more losses for the Allies.

Have to look for greener pastures to kill Allied planes. Perhaps one of the many bases in Burma. Or, night bombing of Port Blair at 10K. I can do it once before he relocates some NF there.

Bombardment attack shows only 2700 AV of Chinese troops in Chungking versus my 4800. I may attack in a day or two again. I need that base!








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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 5:20:29 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		I love the Spit VII.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 5:32:14 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I love the Spit VIII.


Best defensive plane on the map. I just stopped sweeping until the Frank 'r' and Ki-83 arrived once this was in play.

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/24/2015 6:32:34 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 4062
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 1:18:06 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I am going to try and pick on the Chinese AF some...away from the lousy Spitfires. He has between 60 and 100 fighters at Kunming, with no AA guns. I am going to sweep with a 42 Sentai group of Tonies and then bomb with a Sentai of Helens at the low, low altitude of 6K. The Helens will hopefully be escorted by Oscars.

Every day that goes by is more Ki202 factories repaired, and more progress on starting engine production.

I am shipping another brigade to Naha today...plus moving lots more back.

Allied air recon is still heavy in the Leyte/Samar area.

Last turn I managed to dodge a Lightning sweep at Woleai and then have the Rufe's engage the 4E beasts. Rufe's engines like to cut out it seems, but I did get one heavy bomber for one Rufe.

It is about time for the Allied carriers to show up again...






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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 1:22:30 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I love the Spit VIII.


Best defensive plane on the map. I just stopped sweeping until the Frank 'r' and Ki-83 arrived once this was in play.


I had pretty wicked pilots flying them too. Most over 90 EXP after flying defensive CAP in the Spit V for 3 years.

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Post #: 4064
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 1:49:06 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I love the Spit VIII.


Best defensive plane on the map. I just stopped sweeping until the Frank 'r' and Ki-83 arrived once this was in play.


I had pretty wicked pilots flying them too. Most over 90 EXP after flying defensive CAP in the Spit V for 3 years.


Isn't it time for you to start up a new game as?

That is huge difference between Japan and the Allies. There is just no way to keep high experience pilots flying for Japan if they see any combat at all.

So I just chuck them into Tracom, and plan on using them for night fighting squadrons. There they don't really die in the air, but are killed on the ground to daytime bombing or bombardments - but at a really slow pace now.

The butchery in the air has led to totally running out of new replacement Navy pilots a long time ago, but because of the number in Tracom, when I pull early from the flight school they have skills and experience in the high 40s. I also think it might circumvent the heavy industry cost a little, because very few pilots graduate from flight school then for the the Navy.

I am starting to examine the end game in AARs, especially yours, a lot more closely. Unfortunately, there are so many ways to beat Japan, if you defend heavily in one area, then the Allies just go in a different direction. Very frustrating.









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Post #: 4065
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 1:59:17 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I love the Spit VIII.


Best defensive plane on the map. I just stopped sweeping until the Frank 'r' and Ki-83 arrived once this was in play.


I had pretty wicked pilots flying them too. Most over 90 EXP after flying defensive CAP in the Spit V for 3 years.


Isn't it time for you to start up a new game as?

That is huge difference between Japan and the Allies. There is just no way to keep high experience pilots flying for Japan if they see any combat at all.

So I just chuck them into Tracom, and plan on using them for night fighting squadrons. There they don't really die in the air, but are killed on the ground to daytime bombing or bombardments - but at a really slow pace now.

The butchery in the air has led to totally running out of new replacement Navy pilots a long time ago, but because of the number in Tracom, when I pull early from the flight school they have skills and experience in the high 40s. I also think it might circumvent the heavy industry cost a little, because very few pilots graduate from flight school then for the the Navy.

I am starting to examine the end game in AARs, especially yours, a lot more closely. Unfortunately, there are so many ways to beat Japan, if you defend heavily in one area, then the Allies just go in a different direction. Very frustrating.



In my experience with NJP he tried to defend too far forward and that left plenty of middle ground for me to take behind his strong front lines. Also, once he was breached it appeared that he had few plans to evacuate troops. 100,000 men and 1000 tanks rotted on Formosa and most of his armies were starving in China rather than Japan.

What that gave me was a great opportunity for a land invasion. Had 1000AV of those troops been in Japan that probably would not have been possible.

The end game for Japan begins when it's naval superiority wanes or is destroyed abruptly and then they have to switch to a mobile defensive posture. How long that can be maintained depends upon the players involved.



_____________________________


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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 2:01:16 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Hans,

There is a little difference between a B29 and Frances. I had hoped the Betty 3A with all the cannons could knock down some night fighters, but I haven't used night bombing a lot.


Yea, the flip side doesn't work so well for the poor japs.

My radar equipped British Liberators regularly shoot down the "night" fighters the AI sends after them.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4067
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 2:31:02 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
In my experience with NJP he tried to defend too far forward and that left plenty of middle ground for me to take behind his strong front lines. Also, once he was breached it appeared that he had few plans to evacuate troops. 100,000 men and 1000 tanks rotted on Formosa and most of his armies were starving in China rather than Japan.

What that gave me was a great opportunity for a land invasion. Had 1000AV of those troops been in Japan that probably would not have been possible.

The end game for Japan begins when it's naval superiority wanes or is destroyed abruptly and then they have to switch to a mobile defensive posture. How long that can be maintained depends upon the players involved.


I swapped a few PMs with NJP and he would agree with you.



(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 4068
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 2:35:47 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


Yea, the flip side doesn't work so well for the poor japs.

My radar equipped British Liberators regularly shoot down the "night" fighters the AI sends after them.


Too true.

You know, mid to late Allied war planes are simply really, really good. There must be so many things in the air routines we don't know about, especially pilot vulnerability and friendly force recovery.

It is very hard to kill a Mustang or Jugs pilot especially if the fight is over some friendly Allied forces. Not so for Japan...the pilots die in droves.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 4069
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 2:49:45 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Isn't it time for you to start up a new game as?

That is huge difference between Japan and the Allies. There is just no way to keep high experience pilots flying for Japan if they see any combat at all.

So I just chuck them into Tracom, and plan on using them for night fighting squadrons. There they don't really die in the air, but are killed on the ground to daytime bombing or bombardments - but at a really slow pace now.

The butchery in the air has led to totally running out of new replacement Navy pilots a long time ago, but because of the number in Tracom, when I pull early from the flight school they have skills and experience in the high 40s. I also think it might circumvent the heavy industry cost a little, because very few pilots graduate from flight school then for the the Navy.

I am starting to examine the end game in AARs, especially yours, a lot more closely. Unfortunately, there are so many ways to beat Japan, if you defend heavily in one area, then the Allies just go in a different direction. Very frustrating.


Yeah, I´m kind of itching for a game. But I need to find the right opponent first.

I think pilots wise the Allies and Japan are on opposite ends. Allies needs to carefully manage pilots and air frames leading to good pilots (with the help of armor and fighting defensively). The Japanese have unlimited numbers of both planes and pilots which leads to them having less skilled pilots. Both because they play offensively without armor but also because they really don´t need to care that much about losses.

If you are running out of pilots I think you are doing something wrong.

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 2:53:58 PM   
Mike McCreery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
In my experience with NJP he tried to defend too far forward and that left plenty of middle ground for me to take behind his strong front lines. Also, once he was breached it appeared that he had few plans to evacuate troops. 100,000 men and 1000 tanks rotted on Formosa and most of his armies were starving in China rather than Japan.

What that gave me was a great opportunity for a land invasion. Had 1000AV of those troops been in Japan that probably would not have been possible.

The end game for Japan begins when it's naval superiority wanes or is destroyed abruptly and then they have to switch to a mobile defensive posture. How long that can be maintained depends upon the players involved.


I swapped a few PMs with NJP and he would agree with you.




I was really looking forward to a great conversation about the whole war after it was over but we started another conflict!! Maybe NJP and I can trade stories after this one ;]


< Message edited by Wargmr -- 4/24/2015 3:54:19 PM >

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RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 4:01:59 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Yeah, the Spit-VIII is amazing. It's even a great sweeper if you don't need to defend. I remember those diecast planes, my favorite one to play with was a Spitfire. Probably an VIII considering...

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 4072
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 4:07:41 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
If you are running out of pilots I think you are doing something wrong.


I am not running out of pilots, I am running out of pilots in the replacement pool for the Navy.

It is a common problem, especially where the Japanese player expands air group sizes and float plane sizes.

However, no doubt I am doing tons of things wrong!

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 4073
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 4:50:31 PM   
DanSez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
If you are running out of pilots I think you are doing something wrong.


I am not running out of pilots, I am running out of pilots in the replacement pool for the Navy.

It is a common problem, especially where the Japanese player expands air group sizes and float plane sizes.

However, no doubt I am doing tons of things wrong!



At some point, don't those expanded float plane units become almost useless? Shipping lanes shrink, oil and resource centers under attack, other areas becoming isolated.

If you disband a 30 float plane unit, then those pilots go into general reserve. If timed right, it could give you a boost in already trained pilots at the end - either by disbanding or by purging all the outlying air units of any experience and restocking them like a training squadron and let then train in isolation.



(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4074
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 5:03:40 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanSez


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister
If you are running out of pilots I think you are doing something wrong.


I am not running out of pilots, I am running out of pilots in the replacement pool for the Navy.

It is a common problem, especially where the Japanese player expands air group sizes and float plane sizes.

However, no doubt I am doing tons of things wrong!



At some point, don't those expanded float plane units become almost useless? Shipping lanes shrink, oil and resource centers under attack, other areas becoming isolated.

If you disband a 30 float plane unit, then those pilots go into general reserve. If timed right, it could give you a boost in already trained pilots at the end - either by disbanding or by purging all the outlying air units of any experience and restocking them like a training squadron and let then train in isolation.



Oh, I don't know. They make for great trainers for either fighters or kamikazes, and they do make for surprising kamikaze units from unlikely bases.

I have inherited several squadrons like this, I think the biggest resizing I did was from 4 to 9 for AV usage.




(in reply to DanSez)
Post #: 4075
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 7:25:53 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		They are less useful once you have the training groups in late 44-45. Then I disbanded a good number of them as they were just much less useful and flying search was costly.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4076
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 10:08:19 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Dec 17, 1943

No night bombing.

Tony does a nice job on shooting down the Chinese planes, I know I have been remiss in this area, but to tell the truth China just doesn't grab me.

The Allies bomb with everything and the kitchen sink west of Raheng, eating up my supplies losing several 4E to my nasty flak there (well, about as nasty as I have). Then they attack with 5 divisions, and we hold and destroy 35 tanks and disable 150 on both sides. I am taking the supply buildup off Chumphon, and more supplies are being shipped here. It is tough when so many bombers flying over, but the infantry and tank division has supply...just not the AA.

Souped up Spitfires are sweeping out of Moulmein now.

I am 3-4 days away of this group of defenders getting 6 more, well rested, ART units which should help, and there is another IJA Hvy division resting at Raheng.

All quiet, moving troops and oil primarily and some supply. Looks like another attack in Chungking in 3-4 days time.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/24/2015 11:09:21 PM >

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Post #: 4077
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/24/2015 11:30:16 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		Now that you are destroying units at Chungking, you might make a slight effort to note which are being destroyed. Keep in mind that any Corps destroyed will respawn with 1/3 of TOE in 30 days' time. So if you wait too long, it can be detrimental.

When do you start bombing the troops with all you've got?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4078
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/25/2015 2:05:24 AM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Now that you are destroying units at Chungking, you might make a slight effort to note which are being destroyed. Keep in mind that any Corps destroyed will respawn with 1/3 of TOE in 30 days' time. So if you wait too long, it can be detrimental.

When do you start bombing the troops with all you've got?


Or you turn it into the infinite VP mill. Let the Allies chew on that with B-29's in range.

It's shamelessly gaming the game, but you're Japan, you get a pass.


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 4079
RE: Midget sub penetrates harbor! - 4/25/2015 12:25:19 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Two different pilot training programs. I read in one of the extra notes in the main directory that having experienced officers in a squadron help with training.

Not a great comparison here...but these are the two closest I could find quickly.




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