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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My!

 
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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 5:18:18 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Wonder how many VPs it will net you? Hopefully enough to prolong the game for a month or two.



Well, it is like a 5,000 point swing or close to it for city itself. Then there is the production, hopefully not trashed, which will help for the rest of the game, or until the Allies request to be allowed a strategic bombing campaign in China.

In re-reading your AAR, in a few scant months it seems Allied AV can double in the Indochina campaign, at one point you massed 12K AV (argh!).

Sweeping with Oscars in Indochina, I have done this now and then, just hope for 1-1 (over my troops on the Moulmein/Raheng road.

Bombarding Great Nicobar, if Tavoy lasts another day I will fast transport in 72 AV of INA troops. Changed there leader, and boy do they really stink, but in tough terrain with forts they might do ok for a few days.

Expanded Jack, again, probably daily now for a while. Got a second squadron on Emily L up and running, size 18 so that could be 108 supply a turn dropped I think. Opens up some windows in the Pacific...

Shut down some Merchant factories, (300 or so) and some armaments (300 or so). Shipping more of everything everywhere!

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 5:43:37 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		Keep in mind though thats only about half of my total forces. My best troops were at or going to PI.

Allies get a massive boost of ground forces in 44. My Marianas invasion was done solely by reinforcements. Can´t remember the exact number but probably 8-12 IDs including some USMC divisions. And lots of armor. So be ready for that influx of troops!

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 6:37:57 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Keep in mind though thats only about half of my total forces. My best troops were at or going to PI.

Allies get a massive boost of ground forces in 44. My Marianas invasion was done solely by reinforcements. Can´t remember the exact number but probably 8-12 IDs including some USMC divisions. And lots of armor. So be ready for that influx of troops!


I re-read your exploits from being stymied in Burma, thru the Tavoy invasion, and then the breakout into the central plains.

It is really scary reading! Your troops moved faster than Obvert though, and you brought more to the party than he thought. The combination was simply a killer.

I am one battle away from that happening I think. Or if the Allies get Raheng before my troops get there to reinforce heavily. I wouldn't put it past him air dropping troops again, but several of his parachute and chindits are tied up in the Andamans fighting.

Here is the 2nd Raiding Regiment slugging it out against a hodgepodge of Allied units including Marine Raiders and other paratroops.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/8/2015 7:36:36 PM >

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 6:47:27 PM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Keep in mind though thats only about half of my total forces. My best troops were at or going to PI.

Allies get a massive boost of ground forces in 44. My Marianas invasion was done solely by reinforcements. Can´t remember the exact number but probably 8-12 IDs including some USMC divisions. And lots of armor. So be ready for that influx of troops!


I re-read your exploits from being stymied in Burma, thru the Tavoy invasion, and then the breakout into the central plains.

It is really scary reading! Your troops moved faster than Obvert though, and you brought more to the party than he thought. The combination was simply a killer.

I am one battle away from that happening I think. Or if the Allies get Raheng before my troops get there to reinforce heavily. I wouldn't put it past him air dropping troops again, but several of his parachute and chindits are tied up in the Andamans fighting.

Here is the 2nd Raiding Regiment slugging it out against a hodgepodge of Allied units including Marine Raiders and other paratroops.





Key is allied armor. Only thing the Japanese have that can stop it is terrain and that is sometimes out of Japanese control. Uninterrupted you can move almost a hex a day. That is the true killer. Hard for the defending side to get into position in time once things get fluid. And even if you do get into position Allied armor is extremely sturdy. Don´t get fooled by the AV. 1000 Armored AV is simply beyond the Japanese ability to defeat.

Luckily for you it will probably be late 44 before he can amass that and by then you will have bigger things to worry about!

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 8:32:25 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Thanks Joc, good advice as always.

Artillery and terrain seems the counter to Allied armor right now. I have most of the big boys against the Allies in Indochina (those pieces over 150mm). Chungking is full of 150mm artillery with good experience, and I am hoping I will get a chance to divert a lot of it to Thailand.

I have got a dozen of those rapid firing AT gun units of 18 47mm each, and several are in Thailand now, but there are several close by too. I think I will moves some more to Thailand. I like them for Island defense too, and several are on islands. I just got another, somewhere in Manchuko yesterday as a reinforcement. I will try to dump as many of these 47mm AT guys into Raheng, where the Allied tank army is coming to (out of the jungle). Perhaps if I can mass five or six of them they can do some good service.

Dropping a lot of troops off in Mindanao this turn, originally slated for Luzon, but Allied subs all around Luzon. So for now they go to Mindanao and then the ships can run back south for more troops. First stage of evacuation almost finished.




< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/8/2015 9:32:09 PM >

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 9:04:32 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		INA troops.

I have been using them as rear area guards, really not touched them. But that is about to change. I have given them better leadership, and will ship them off to the front lines -- especially in x3 terrain and hopefully against Allied infantry. They are some of the best anti-soft units in the game for Japan.




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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 10:31:18 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Status: offline 		I decided to forget about the INA in front-line positions - they're too small to have much of an impact and any serious combat will quickly see them attrition down into nothing.

It would be nice if you could combine the Indian regiments to the 1st INA Division, even though that formation only existed on paper. Otherwise I just can't see them doing well in the long drawn out battles that you're going to see in Thailand.

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 10:57:57 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I am sending one to Mergui, where forces are smaller, the other 3 to moulmein/Bangkok.

In good terrain, they will do okay, especially against the infantry horde against me on the Moulmeing/Bangkok road and at Mergui. Worry about their low morale from being bitten my bugs, though.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/9/2015 12:07:53 AM >

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 11:58:20 PM   
Lowpe


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No night bombing.

Doing the unexpected, even for me! This air raid by Helen's caught me by surprise. I thought I had moved them back...should have since the Allies bombed their air base and bagged a dozen Helens and Oscars. Perhaps I can use that to my advantage, since he only swept with 25 Thunderbolts. If Pisanuloke get fixed again,I will attempt to pull a stunt, and set the stage for an overwhelming CAP with Tonies, Jacks and George.






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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/8/2015 11:59:36 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		What's for dinner....Chungking! Almost done.




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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 12:17:47 AM   
Rio Bravo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What's for dinner....Chungking! Almost done.






Whoa!

Damn I am going to hate this when El Lobo takes Cung King from me!

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 5:02:40 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		Nice attack on Chungking!

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 8:13:50 AM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		It'll fall the next time you can strike with full supply. Nice work there!

Very fun to get 100k+ POWs (and VPs) for your long campaign there. This will ease your mind a whole lot about the stuff going on the the South in Thailand. Having China cleared allows a lot more defensive options.

_____________________________

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 10:10:53 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Having China cleared allows a lot more defensive options.


But how much difference does it really make? I know you had some forces tied up in the North defending Chungking. But it wasn´t that much was it? I remember you having a couple of IDs there. But as far as I remember having those IDs in the south where the CW was attacking would probably not have made much difference.

Granted my memory is pretty hazy but I´m sure I even pulled a lot of forces from the area as they weren´t needed. I probably had somewhere around 8000 AV including 2000 armored AV. How much are the Jap forces in China?

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 11:18:19 AM   
Lowpe


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No night bombing.

Allies bomb in Indochina/Thailand.

The INA troops are fast transported into Tavoy, they give the defenders they need to fight off the attack inflicting 10% losses on the Commonwealth, and prevent forts from going down. Some of the battered units in reserve recover some assault value. Unfortunately the POW and company show up at Port Blair...will he bombard?

The Myojo flies, no planes lost, and some small amount of flak is shot at the squadron. Bombers flying at 7K don't get shot at all.






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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 12:16:32 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Having China cleared allows a lot more defensive options.


But how much difference does it really make? I know you had some forces tied up in the North defending Chungking. But it wasn´t that much was it? I remember you having a couple of IDs there. But as far as I remember having those IDs in the south where the CW was attacking would probably not have made much difference.

Granted my memory is pretty hazy but I´m sure I even pulled a lot of forces from the area as they weren´t needed. I probably had somewhere around 8000 AV including 2000 armored AV. How much are the Jap forces in China?


I did have a garrison of about 4-5k AV near to the reserve zone in China to make sure no funny stuff happened with the million man army up there.

Altogether I think the combined Japanese forces in China start at 11-12k AV but slowly grow throughout the game. In late 43 the Chinese garrison troops expand and there is a big influx in 44 of IJA divisions and brigades. As the defenses of the islands around the HI is put in place some of these would naturally be bought out at half price before filling out to go to these bases.

I think one of the reasons you didn't need so many troops was also that the Chinese army started pushing once it had some supply. It was at least a big threat.

Having Chungking allows several things. Since I've got the whole central area in the Historiker game I can say the first things I'm doing are organizing the defense better and building forts. I've got specific plans for the mountains and coasts that are only allowed by having ALL of the Chinese Expiditionary Army to play with. The brigades can combine to divisions and the divisions can move around and build, get prepped for bases, get set into reserve locations, and I don't have the constraint of having to prepare for the Chinese Army to walk out of Chungking at some point.

It's a very big difference.

Also China is now supporting the forces there. I haven't thought of shipping supply in since Chungking fell and I seemingly don't need to. For Japan thats also huge. The HI is just an added bonus.

The other bonus that I wasn't worried about in our game is the VPs. Chungking is a haul, but Chengtu is not bad either, and the other bases have a bit too. Depending on how the game goes, those bases may stay in Japanese hands for the duration, whereas if you don't have Chungking you don't have those points and likely lose a lot more points in the rest of China too. Or the Allies have to plan to take them, diverting from other more direct approaches to the HI. That is massive as I see it now.

My two cents anyway, but we'll see how these different versions of this scenario pan out soon!

_____________________________

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 12:21:15 PM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		You'd do better leaving the in the city to recover and keeping their forts. Counter battery would be negligible if they have forts build, but if not it could cause more disruption.

At this point you could attack after a few days. It won't matter if there is still some disruption and fatigue gets to the 30s. It's going to fall.

_____________________________

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 12:40:00 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Taking Chungking will be huge for me, Joc, can't stress it anymore than that....for all the reasons Obvert mentions, plus there is a HR no strategic bombing in China.

There is a lot of industry in Chungking! If I can get it.

I am not worried about counter battery fire at Chungking, there is none! I prefer moving the troops out, rest 2-3 days and move back in and attack with 2-3 fatigue. Then it is off to other things with most of those troops, especially the artillery.

Just sent my turn away, and hope to have several surprises for the Allies...perhaps one foolhardy attack, we shall see.

Plane building: still adding 1 factory a day of Jacks. Allies now recon north Luzon. Lousy long range planes.


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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 12:44:58 PM   
KenchiSulla


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Status: offline 		Once the Chinese supply and forts are gone you might consider attacking with a smaller force (so you can keep a higher relative pace, increasing disruption and fatigue on the Chinese side). You wouldn't need to achieve 1:1 odds and it will still wear down the Chinese troops...

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 1:46:06 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Once the Chinese supply and forts are gone you might consider attacking with a smaller force (so you can keep a higher relative pace, increasing disruption and fatigue on the Chinese side). You wouldn't need to achieve 1:1 odds and it will still wear down the Chinese troops...


Good advice, no wonder you are so darn good!

But if I recover back to 6500AV with no disruption and fatigue in the 2s' I think I can get a 2-1 and put this city away. We are talking one week I think thanks to the big road.

Bombing and artillery are causing 1,000 casualties a day.

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 5:38:25 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Status: offline 		Arrgghhh, Just spent about 30 minutes writing a long post about China and the forum ate it!

A short summery. I understand securing China is absolutely golden for the Japanese. What I was trying to get a at was the fact that once the "real" allies (CW/Oz/US/Indian troops)get there no amount of Japanese AV will stop them. And most likely Japan will have bigger issues to worry about by then.

Not really a point but rather a reflection. The VPs you´ll gain from it will be pure gold.


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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 8:25:37 PM   
Lowpe


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Can't get over putting the 1944 there. I get a little smile each time.

No night bombing.

IJN destroyers catch a sub...




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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 8:29:04 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Allies bomb in Thailand, they are widening and making a big effort to keep all the airbases closed. I am not resisting, other than flak. But I have plans, muh ha ha!

Not a single Allied deliberate attack this turn, a first in quite a while. Allies send 150 AV of Chinese into Tavoy...and now there is a CVE or something like it at Port Blair and many ships. Uh, oh!

Good weather, low forts, and Chungking defenders can't hide from the rain of death!




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/9/2015 9:28:02 PM >

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 8:46:21 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Just because I lost the KB, doesn't mean I am going to lay down. Here three fleet carriers and a CS strike at Marcus. I was hoping to get the tankers in port, but unfortunately the weather prevented the Judies from flying. Those boys are all disappointed, because they have been training for this job for the last month.

No enemy radar, so six minutes warning for the raid.

Now, what to do. He has solid detection on the carriers, but none on the CA/CLs/DDs hanging out to the east. But I fear that might be a Fletcher force of 7 destroyers at sea too, and the normal PT boat horde in port.




Absolutely amazing how important radar is at base defense.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/9/2015 11:51:09 PM >

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 10:51:23 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Turn is away, and I of course ran away with my carriers. Their escort is a bit slim, but I am sending two groups into Marcus, one to clear and one to bombard. I now have a screen of 14 subs up on likely retreat paths for the ships in Marcus, or reinforcing groups that might come.

Also sweeping Cap Nicobar with a CL/DD force to kill more PT boats, and maybe snag some LCTs. Hopefully the POW doesn't show.

Boosted day and night search substantially.

There is now 4500 AV of IJA troops resting comfortably outside of Chungking. Chungking held with 1300 and hordes of Artillery and tanks. 2 more days to rest, 2 days to march and kapow!

Assembling a BB ship force at Phuket to bombard Mergui and hopefully take some starch out of the Allied attackers.

After much thinking, and crunching numbers, I bit the bullet to today and cancelled the large Tojo IIc factory. No more Tojo for me, although the pool + planes in service is close to 400. I moved that beast of a factory, c120 size, to ..... drum roll please...the Jack.

My thinking is that I will have plenty of Frank production, George is low until the final version comes along, so the Jack will get a boost from the 100 I was planning to 135 or so. Big expense, but I need the production for all the fighter squadrons that were once upon a time on carriers. This is probably my last major move in air production.

A side benefit it allows a Ha-35 factory to switch over to research the Toko rocket. Probably pointless, but it really is my focus now....

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/9/2015 11:52:12 PM >

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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 10:55:40 PM   
KenchiSulla


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Status: offline 		Looks like you've got Chungking. Any idea what you are going to do with freed up troops?

_____________________________

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"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 4286
RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 11:15:07 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Looks like you've got Chungking. Any idea what you are going to do with freed up troops?



I think 1 full division is already bought out, most of the present artillery is as I purchased them from Manchuko back when I took the game over.

I will of course garrison the mountain passes into China.

The 150mm and larger artillery will go to fight the Allied tank army in Thailand, as will the bought out Infantry division. Then garrison the coast of China and the border with Vietnam, and new purchases will probably go to Formosa and the inner line around Okinawa.

If I have time some will go to Luzon. Probably won't though.

Oh, and there are about 45 chinese corps I have bypassed that need destroying. That will take a few clicks.

When I took over the game, I originally wasn't going to do much in China...I wanted the Changsha production triangle and then I was quite content to take up defensive positions and save supplies.

But the Allies always kept doing things in China. Nasty CAP traps, cutting my lines of supply, they just never left me alone, and one thing led to another and here I am at the gates of Chungking.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 5/10/2015 12:33:56 AM >

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Post #: 4287
RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 11:27:12 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Some thoughts on fighting Allied armor:






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RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/9/2015 11:44:27 PM   
njp72

 

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Status: offline 		Quite valuable thoughts and very useful which I will utilise.

I have never come up with a workable solution to allied armour. They are fast and so damn hard to kill.

Mind you I don't think I have come up with many solutions at all against the Allied juggernaut. :-)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Some thoughts on fighting Allied armor:







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Post #: 4289
RE: Bolts, Cats and Spits, Oh My! - 5/10/2015 12:02:42 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I could use some anti-armor tips for my game... Are the 47mm ATGs able to destroy late war tanks?

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

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