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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Before and after

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RE: Before and after - 12/29/2015 4:17:51 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He does get VP for any ships that where in the build cue. None here I believe.

I feel like this has come up recently, although perhaps in another AAR... but I think wdolson chimed in saying that ships in the queue are simply canceled, and VPs aren't given for them. I don't think I'm misremembering?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 6391

RE: Before and after - 12/29/2015 10:32:07 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He does get VP for any ships that where in the build cue. None here I believe.

I feel like this has come up recently, although perhaps in another AAR... but I think wdolson chimed in saying that ships in the queue are simply canceled, and VPs aren't given for them. I don't think I'm misremembering?

Unless the newest Beta has changed it, you do get partial points for ships "destroyed while building" or "cancelled" when a base with Naval or Merchant Shipyard is taken.

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_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 6392

RE: Before and after - 12/30/2015 12:16:01 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He does get VP for any ships that where in the build cue. None here I believe.

I feel like this has come up recently, although perhaps in another AAR... but I think wdolson chimed in saying that ships in the queue are simply canceled, and VPs aren't given for them. I don't think I'm misremembering?

Unless the newest Beta has changed it, you do get partial points for ships "destroyed while building" or "cancelled" when a base with Naval or Merchant Shipyard is taken.

They're listed on the sunk ships screen, yeah... but see the posts by wdolson and michaelm here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3976041

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 6393

RE: Before and after - 12/30/2015 2:47:39 AM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He does get VP for any ships that where in the build cue. None here I believe.

I feel like this has come up recently, although perhaps in another AAR... but I think wdolson chimed in saying that ships in the queue are simply canceled, and VPs aren't given for them. I don't think I'm misremembering?

Unless the newest Beta has changed it, you do get partial points for ships "destroyed while building" or "cancelled" when a base with Naval or Merchant Shipyard is taken.

They're listed on the sunk ships screen, yeah... but see the posts by wdolson and michaelm here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3976041

You are misreading what wdolson and michaelm said in the thread you listed. The link I provided in that thread is the definitive position.

1. Ships which are under construction when the base they arrive at is captured by the enemy are sunk and half of their standard VPs are awarded to the conqueror. Confirmed by Don Bowen in 2009 in the link I gave, reconfirmed by both wdolson and michaelm in the thread you linked. All in keeping with page 263 of the manual.

2. Ships which are returning to the game after having previously been on the map, are not ships under construction. They are placed in the reinforcement queue and are treated differently. If their arrival base is captured by the enemy, just like reinforcing land/air units scheduled for that lost base, they are placed in the queue to arrive at the alternate national location arrival base and if that is also controlled by the enemy, they are delayed until one of the bases has been recaptured.

3. Ships under construction are permanently lost if their "arrival" base is lost. They never existed. Hence why VPs are awarded.

4. Returning ships are merely delayed when no appropriate arrival base exists under friendly control. Even though the delay is indefinite the code has to take into account the possibility that before the scenario ends, an appropriate base is recaptured. Hence why it would be inappropriate to award VPs for returning ships.

Alfred

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 6394

RE: Before and after - 12/30/2015 4:13:02 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He does get VP for any ships that where in the build cue. None here I believe.

I feel like this has come up recently, although perhaps in another AAR... but I think wdolson chimed in saying that ships in the queue are simply canceled, and VPs aren't given for them. I don't think I'm misremembering?

Unless the newest Beta has changed it, you do get partial points for ships "destroyed while building" or "cancelled" when a base with Naval or Merchant Shipyard is taken.

They're listed on the sunk ships screen, yeah... but see the posts by wdolson and michaelm here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3976041

You are misreading what wdolson and michaelm said in the thread you listed. The link I provided in that thread is the definitive position.

1. Ships which are under construction when the base they arrive at is captured by the enemy are sunk and half of their standard VPs are awarded to the conqueror. Confirmed by Don Bowen in 2009 in the link I gave, reconfirmed by both wdolson and michaelm in the thread you linked. All in keeping with page 263 of the manual.

2. Ships which are returning to the game after having previously been on the map, are not ships under construction. They are placed in the reinforcement queue and are treated differently. If their arrival base is captured by the enemy, just like reinforcing land/air units scheduled for that lost base, they are placed in the queue to arrive at the alternate national location arrival base and if that is also controlled by the enemy, they are delayed until one of the bases has been recaptured.

3. Ships under construction are permanently lost if their "arrival" base is lost. They never existed. Hence why VPs are awarded.

4. Returning ships are merely delayed when no appropriate arrival base exists under friendly control. Even though the delay is indefinite the code has to take into account the possibility that before the scenario ends, an appropriate base is recaptured. Hence why it would be inappropriate to award VPs for returning ships.

Alfred

Ah ha. I think that's what I was missing.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 6395

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 10:45:10 PM

Lowpe

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June 19h, 1944

IJN MTBs strike at the Allied shipping at the invasion beach...

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Post #: 6396

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 10:46:53 PM

Lowpe

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I break up the MTBs and form TF based on speed...here a lone MTB fails to secure a hit, but causes a collision in the panic to avoid torpedoes.

My opponent is okay with this tactic and realizes it isn't a gamey attempt to deplete op points.

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Post #: 6397

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 10:58:46 PM

Lowpe

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Sadly, most of the MTBs are sunk during daylight hours....

Allies raid an airbase with no detection levels on it from yesterday on Honshu, and destroy many planes hiding.

Stalemate on Shikoku.

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Post #: 6398

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 11:11:21 PM

Lowpe

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Allies attempt a breakout from their landing.

Gifu in the plains will fall. Osaka has now 1000 AV, Maizuru has 500, the rough terrain due east has 500, and Nagoya has 800.

The Allies armored units are at Osaka (3), Gifu (4) and the 100,000 troops on the beach head are moving to Osaka and Gifu.

A tough day in the air.

Or should I say the ground.

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Post #: 6399

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 11:21:45 PM

Lowpe

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No attacks here in Indochina. The rail line at Hue will get cut soon, but the 2nd Tank Division (full strength) is holding the rail line and should be able to hold.

Hard fighting in the jungle.

I may have to commit some of the divisions recuperating at Lang Son back to Hue. I have the 1st, 2nd, 8th, and 55th but none are over 275 AV.

No sign of Allied ships building up at Saigon for a large amphibious invasion behind and into China.

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Post #: 6400

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 11:28:51 PM

Lowpe

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At this point, can you really blame the Japanese intel departments for using rose colored glasses?

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Post #: 6401

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 11:29:39 PM

BBfanboy

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Garrison requirements will bring his offensive to a halt soon. Something like 1020 for Osaka and 360 for Nagoya. He could ignore the garrison requirements and take the hit on VPs willingly, but damage to the bases will affect their value for port and airport services. Supply flow might also be affected by heavily damaged bases - the equivalent of restricted supply flow through a minimally developed base.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 6402

RE: Before and after - 1/3/2016 11:39:53 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Garrison requirements will bring his offensive to a halt soon. Something like 1020 for Osaka and 360 for Nagoya. He could ignore the garrison requirements and take the hit on VPs willingly, but damage to the bases will affect their value for port and airport services. Supply flow might also be affected by heavily damaged bases - the equivalent of restricted supply flow through a minimally developed base.

I am hoping to hold both bases!

If I were him, I would focus my strength at cutting Honshu in half - creates all sorts or strange problems.

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Post #: 6403

RE: Before and after - 1/4/2016 12:33:52 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Garrison requirements will bring his offensive to a halt soon. Something like 1020 for Osaka and 360 for Nagoya. He could ignore the garrison requirements and take the hit on VPs willingly, but damage to the bases will affect their value for port and airport services. Supply flow might also be affected by heavily damaged bases - the equivalent of restricted supply flow through a minimally developed base.

Whether or not the base is damaged does not affect supply flow...

However, if the garrison requirement is not met, then a supply path can't be traced through the hex. To the hex is fine, I imagine, but not through.

Other than that, I don't know why he'd care about garrison requirements.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 6404

RE: Before and after - 1/5/2016 1:48:39 PM

Lowpe

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June 20, 1944

Allied forces bombard many ports, all open terrain, on southern Honshu. Ominous.

Meanwhile, the aerial pounding of Honshu continues. Even Wildcats are strafing now. However, we catch some, destroying an full Jugs squadron first, intercepting bombers (in which we were just a little too high for maximum damage) before more Jugs sweeping came in last to even the score a little.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 1/5/2016 2:49:21 PM >

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Post #: 6405

RE: Before and after - 1/5/2016 1:50:23 PM

Lowpe

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Over at Oosthaven, we set a small trap. Our traps have to be small now.

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Post #: 6406

RE: Before and after - 1/5/2016 1:52:06 PM

Lowpe

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Losses in the air.

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Post #: 6407

RE: Before and after - 1/5/2016 1:53:45 PM

Lowpe

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Indochina...

Japanese infantry and artillery defense in depth using craftily hidden strong points blunts a heavy armored thrust yet again.

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Post #: 6408

RE: Before and after - 1/5/2016 1:58:47 PM

Lowpe

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Not unexpected; but how sad.

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Post #: 6409

Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:02:41 PM

Lowpe

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Interesting fight at Gifu.

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Post #: 6410

RE: Before and after - 1/5/2016 2:04:07 PM

JocMeister

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Ouch, can you keep him from cutting the HI in half? Looks like at least x2 terrain north of Gifu?

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Post #: 6411

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:09:33 PM

Lowpe

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Osaka defense. Light on AT units, but should hold.

Urban heavy terrain, forts close to 4 I think (yep, 88%).

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Post #: 6412

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:11:58 PM

Lowpe

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Maizuru...better troops arriving shortly.

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Post #: 6413

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:13:37 PM

Lowpe

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The weak spot...plentiful AA, but not much to stop tanks, yet.

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Post #: 6414

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:16:38 PM

Lowpe

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And finally, Nagoya.

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Post #: 6415

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:18:49 PM

Lowpe

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Iboats are still getting wins.

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Post #: 6416

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:21:16 PM

Lowpe

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A distressingly small cargo ship.

But a win, is a win.

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Post #: 6417

RE: Gifu - 1/5/2016 2:25:07 PM

Lowpe

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Japanese armor once again prepares for a mad dash to the front lines, while the artillery will follow. Can they get there before the Allied armored thrust wins a hex?