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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/1/2014 11:36:35 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Feb 20, 1943

Strange, odd turn.

For about 2/3rds of the air attacks I got a line item on the large map screen, but it never jumped to the combat animation, and didn't generate a combat report.

I am hoping I accidentally hit some shortcut key while trying to get a screen capture.

But judging from the air loss page and recon from airfields the combat went thru, but I have no idea the effectiveness of any raid on Prome other than about 15% airfield damage, no planes destroyed on the ground, and unknown casualties inflicted on the ground troops.

A shame, cause the sweeps went in perfectly, the bombing raids looked good over Prome, but I lost 14 bombers to Flak.

Allies bombed the airfield at Ramree, and also Kwaj in the Marshalls. Several CA spotted in the Marshalls, looks like he might be running into Nauru for a bombardment run. Bad timing as three pbs are unloading there...

In Burma, I scaled back the sweeps some, put a few more squadrons on defense, but will keep bombing Prome. Hopefully, I can disrupt some of those AA units there.

Overall, I lost 40 planes to his 11....a good bombardment of Rangoon damages 10 P-400.

But really unsure what happened overall. I hope it was just a one time blip. EDIT: A problem with my computer, too many other programs running, closing and restarting the program fixed it. I was too lazy to watch the turn over again.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/2/2014 3:21:51 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/1/2014 11:43:57 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Burma

My troops will mostly enter Prome with the next turn, and some on the following turn.

He has 27 units there. Some are chewed up like the Chindits and the American division, others have to be all those small units that originally start in Burma, but there is still a strong armored presence.

This is going to be a bloody campaign.






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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 1:04:08 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Something is up!




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 4:15:22 AM   
setloz

 

Posts: 97
Joined: 1/14/2013
From: Romania
Status: offline 		Are you willing to commit KB without the full complement of CVs?

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 10:38:51 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: setloz

Are you willing to commit KB without the full complement of CVs?


For about the next 3 months absolutely.

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 10:42:16 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Jackpot!

I just scratch my head here. Why in the world were those planes there? It is not like I haven't been bombarding the base almost daily...

Makes me feel much better about my attack on Prome.





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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/2/2014 11:43:00 AM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 10:51:01 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Prome is socked in, so some bombers divert to Rangoon. What initiative!




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 11:14:35 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		F4Fs sweep in Marshall: 3 Zeroes lost for 1 Wildcat; but no invasions there.

IJN bombardment force at Rangoon thoroughly trashes 1 Dutch sub and 1 American sub. Heavy damage done to the submarines.

Below Burma: Clash at Prome!




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 12:29:02 PM   
setloz

 

Posts: 97
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From: Romania
Status: offline 		Wow, that's a lot of damaged 4Es.

Can you keep up the bombings? Those planes can't get out until repaired since the railway is blocked. So you could put a serious dent in his bombing abilities.

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Post #: 1509
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 2:14:21 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: setloz

Wow, that's a lot of damaged 4Es.

Can you keep up the bombings? Those planes can't get out until repaired since the railway is blocked. So you could put a serious dent in his bombing abilities.


Less planes damaged than you think. Each hit on a plane counts as one damaged plane, and those guys can absorb a lot of hits. Or that is my belief.

Only 6 were destroyed on the ground, despite a couple of good bombing runs after the bombardment.

Rangoon will get the same treatment (heck the ships rearm at Moulmein), while the bombers and sweeps will be on Prome, plus LR CAP on Prome. Egads, I am going to lose planes over Prome, and the weather will probably prevent me from ever closing the base.

The troops at Prome are going to dig in, and await more troops. I hope he bombards me, since counter battery fire always seems to be more effective. I hope he doesn't ground attack after a super heavy aerial bombardment. Maybe we will both just sit there.

I have the Chindits totally enclosed and am shock attacking with a division and deliberate attacking with a brigade. I hope I can get them to surrender this turn, before he escapes. But they are tough troops so I think not.




< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/2/2014 3:36:49 PM >

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Post #: 1510
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 2:43:42 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Fusan

Fuel is really starting to flow into Fusan. Resources back up too.

Better yet, no shortages anywhere in Manchuko or China.




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 4:51:21 PM   
DanSez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Fusan

Fuel is really starting to flow into Fusan. Resources back up too.

Better yet, no shortages anywhere in Manchuko or China.





Stockpiling not set on.
Do you use stockpiling along any of the major stops Singapore to Fusan?

I thought using Stockpiling would be one of the commands to pull extras along the road


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Post #: 1512
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 7:11:05 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Stockpiling seems to create shortages in Manchuko, Port Arthur. So I turned it off everywhere.

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Post #: 1513
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 7:19:51 PM   
Lowpe


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An ugly day in the air, made worse by a miscalculation on my part in the Marshalls.

Night attacks at Moulmein by Allied 4Es, the KAI Dinah rise to interfere, but there are so many and as always very effective. 19 planes destroyed on the ground, more damaged. Runway 17 percent damaged.

Well, it would have been worse if not for the Dinahs on CAP. One got shot down during the waves, but at least the Dinah was able to sortie and interfere with every wave.

Not a single 4e lost. Sigh.

The Rangoon bombardment gets a little payback, but is unable to actually destroy any planes on the ground. Will try again tomorrow.

Then the first sweeps of Prome, and this time they aren't coordinated, a lot of funky sweeps arriving piecemeal. I wonder if that is because I had two squadrons on LR CAP.

From the picture below you can see how many fighters the Allies put there in Prome.




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 7:24:54 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Well, it was a bloody day in the Air, but a dozen P38 are down.

I will revert to night bombing of Prome, and continue the sweeps as best I can morale willing. We will see what happens.

Prome is now a level 4 airfield.

The air war -- absolutely the bane of my life.






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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 7:30:42 PM   
Lowpe


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Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		In the Marshalls, I moved 14 destroyers to Jaluit, which has not been observed in a long time, however, they did not make it in time to disband, and were subsequently attacked by every American Naval unit from his dead carriers. Wave after wave for both am and pm.

It wasn't until the pm phase that any hits were made, the torpedo bombers reverted to bombs and started making hits. One destroyer sunk, another with 85 percent fires and another with 83 percent flooding. Well, two lost destroyers for some valuable intel....

Once I get my carriers sorted out and upgraded, I will try to run in another decoy destroyer group with a ton of LR CAP.

Still, stupid of me...thinking of nailing those lousy pt boats and not giving the destroyers any LR CAP to begin with for fear of his bombers hitting the airfields.

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Post #: 1516
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 7:33:26 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Attack on isolated Chindits.

Just die already.




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Post #: 1517
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 7:43:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		All quiet at Prome. No attacks by either side on the ground. My infantry divisions and some artillery are dug in to level 1.




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Post #: 1518
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 9:51:28 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		After much juggling of air frames in the Burma area, there will be a large night air attack from a half dozen bases against Prome. Hopefully, it will work. I really dislike the night model, but what can you do?

KAI Dinah's are on night CAP, and at least a couple of his 4e squadrons are mangled at Rangoon.

Many, many sweeps of Prome are scheduled. Fresh Tonies, Tojos, and even Oscar IIa.

It will be another bloody, bloody day in the Air over Burma. I would rather fight Lightnings on CAP than have them sweep me.

More troops arrive at Prome, and in two days I will launch the Magwe assault to the west and cutting off the road. CA bombardment of Rangoon as normal.

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Post #: 1519
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 10:59:08 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Don't dispair about the air war. We all wrestle with it.

You're doing a great job. Keep the attrition on the Allies in Burma - every squad, tank and plane the Allies commit to Burma is one that they're not going to be using elsewhere.

Some comments:

- What is your fighter pilot training regime like? Are you making sure that your pilots have as high a DEF skill as possible? I've found that DEF can be a critical skill in preventing big losses in A2A.

- How are you constructing your sweeps? Are you making the most optimium use of your aircraft? Despite what some people on this forum will say, altitude isn't everything (though it does seem the single most significant factor). You need you use your airframes to suit their advantages. Tojo's make the high sweeps while the Zero, Oscar and Tony take the middle to lower altitude. Don't be afraid to send in high MVR planes (Zero and Oscar) in at low altitude on sweeps - they'll do an excellent job of drawing the CAP down into a big turning dogfight where they'll have the advantage. Take this with a grain of salt, I've had results almost exactly the same as yours.

- Are you using Rufe's in the Marshalls at all? I'm developing a growing love for these aircraft as excellent second line fighters. Resizing them on CS's can give you a decent sized fighter unit to work with, and they don't even need an airbase. A disbanded AV or two in a dot hex gives you the Rufe equivilant of a size 1 airbase, which in the Central Pacific (with all the 0(0) bases) can be quite important. The Rufe's can't do frontline work, but they can disrupt bombers on LRCAP or serve as CAP for bases farther in the rear that are exposed to 4E's, freeing up better fighters for the frontline. You have the airframe and the squadrons, you may as well use them.

- Don't get disheartened about the lack of airframes destroyed on the ground. With the Allies in their current position, a damaged airframe is as good as a destroyed one - they're not flying out, nor railing out.

- I suggest you look at trying to take the base directly NW of Rangoon (Bassien?), and then close the hexside between Rangoon and that base with a expendable unit (the shock attack will likely trash it). Considering how fickle river shock attacks can be in AE, you'll want to get on the west side of the Irrawady as soon as you can. It also has the dual purpose of making Prome look very, very exposed.

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Post #: 1520
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/2/2014 11:18:25 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Lots of things here:

Fighter training is good. Simple and easy but labor intensive. Air to 60, then low sweep to build defense. Fighters are generally 50 exp, 70 air, 60 def or so.

Planes for me are general flying very low, usually at their best maneuver bands or lower...I give up the dive every time. Just don't like flying planes at 35K. Maybe in 45.

Rufes are great at second line bomber killers. I also use them for night CAP.

I will be attempting to cut the lines by Bassein. I want to keep hitting Allies with hammer blows one after the other. Bombardment and grueling air war at Prome, attack west to cut road below Prome, and then attack west from Prome which is the big move. Any Allied planes I can degrade now, before that force moves west to the coast in the open, closer to his bombing bases, the better I will like it.

Thanks for all the advice!










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Post #: 1521
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 12:43:03 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Incredibly bloody air wars in Burma. Bad weather stops all night bombing, but during the day, Japanese sweeps hit Prome again and again, suffering at first, but then getting the upper hand as the day wore on. After all the AM sweeps were in, and the skies clear of Allied fighters 30 Sallies made a nice raid on the air field.

Only after all the offensive Japanese action was done, did the Allied bombers hit the troops in Prome. A dozen Tojo's put up a stiff resistance and damage was minimal thanks in part to the generous AA units there too.

In the afternoon, a dozen Helens flew in unescorted and got butchered. That's life.

We will do it all again tomorrow.

IJN naval bombardment of Rangoon nets zero planes damaged or destroyed. They are all gone.






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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 1:47:13 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		Economic notes:

Topped 1 million Heavy Industry. 4.2 million supplies and growing.

I simply at this point can't grow the fuel and oil stockpiles in the home islands primarily thru Fusan and Ominato yet. Fusan is showing great promise, but the fuel and oil comes in spurts. At least there is no factory shutdowns anywhere.

I had 50K fuel transfer from Cam Ranh Bay to Saigon. Wrong way guys...I have too many ships at Saigon, will move even more to Fusan. I may have to ship from Singers to China and avoid Indochina all together.


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Post #: 1523
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 11:43:46 AM   
Lowpe


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Allies bomb Pegu at night with 4Es, and once again the KAI Dinah proves its worth. Set at 10 percent cap, 8K, they rose and challenged every wave without losing a plane. Despite the Allies flying low, and only moderate rain, the Allied bombers were ineffective.

Japanese bombers hit Prome, where the weather is thunderstorms and score only 1 runway hit a damaged hurricane. Will do it again tomorrow.

During the day, Japan sweeps Prome with predictably bloody results. Allies send some bombers into Pegu, this time at super high altitude of 34K. The first bomber wave gets a few hits, but for the subsequent waves Tony had climbed high enough to challenge the waves and no more hits were registered.

After the the aerial bloodbath, the Chindits were attacked again, and finally called it a war...at least until they are bought out again.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/3/2014 12:44:57 PM >

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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 11:53:53 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		IJN bombardment of Rangoon, finds the airfield again.

Tomorrow, will be the first bombardment attack on Prome. I cannot believe my intelligent reports which seem very, very low, but they have stayed consistently steady.

720 guns, 1600 afvs, and 60,000 men of the IJA will start the attacks here...all three HQs have been studying Prome, but the artillery isn't dug in yet and I worry about counter battery fire.

Meanwhile, at Prome, the 2 division, 6 artillery, 3 AA, 2 tank regiments are resting for a final day before heading west.

Below Prome, we will launch river crossings.

No air sweeps for today, everyone on defensive escorts. This will give some time for the squadrons to repair and reinforce, and fresh squadrons to arrive and get sorted.




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 5:52:16 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Prome:

A few night air attacks to no effect by both sides -- the Allies hit Toungoo.

During the day, the Japanese pilots on defensive CAP damage bombers at Toungoo and Prome, but a few tanks are disabled or destroyed at Prome by the Allied four engine beasties.

During the late afternoon, the bombardment begins. Bloody Burma.




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 5:56:35 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Plane losses for the day.

This is the single best B17 day I ever have had! They were flying at 37K and some of my fighters actually closed on them.






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Post #: 1527
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 6:06:18 PM   
setloz

 

Posts: 97
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From: Romania
Status: offline 		138 squads disabled? Was that an attack or just a bombardment? I've never experienced such a bloody bombardment...

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Post #: 1528
RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 6:07:21 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Bloody Burma!

Phase 2 the attack from Magwe. At first I hope he only sees reinforcements heading to Prome....

Hopefully, my troops don't get routed from Prome today!




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RE: Burma Bungle! - 8/3/2014 6:10:36 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: setloz

138 squads disabled? Was that an attack or just a bombardment? I've never experienced such a bloody bombardment...


Just bombardment.

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Post #: 1530
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