RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced!

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 5:19:59 PM

Dotdotdot

Posts: 16
Joined: 11/26/2011
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quote:

Allows adding/removing/changing most items: resources (including new colony-manufactured resources), ship components, planetary facilities and wonders, fighter designs, alien races and race families, diplomatic dialog, empire policy, custom characters, ship and base design templates, governments, plagues, research tech trees and more

So...how would the AI react if I ripped out the current the resource system and changed it along the following lines:
1. All resources from extractors are raw materials.
2. All raw materials need to be processed at colonies.
3. All components are made only by processed materials.

Further, can you set up multiple possible requirements for components and resources? Like [1 Caslon +1 Hydrogen = 1 Warp Fuel]/[3 Caslon = 1 Warp Fuel]
Would colony-produced resources require specific structures? Can those resources be produced by certain components?

Can you create tech trees with non-linear cost progressions? Let's say I create a tech unlocks a component plus a dozen or so minor techs that improve various facets of that component. Would those tweak techs each cost twice as much as the base tech?

Does the UI automatically expand/contract/whatever to accommodate the changes?

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 31

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 6:03:22 PM

ASHBERY76

Posts: 2136
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From: England
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1 desert planet in the galaxy is the only planet that produces Caslon.I would like to see the A.I solve that issue.

In all seriousness I am looking at dumbing down aspects like the tech tree to make the A.I better.They take too long to get things like simple armour units produced.I am thinking a narrower tree like in Civ.

_____________________________

(in reply to Dotdotdot)

Post #: 32

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 7:05:56 PM

DrApostle

Posts: 59
Joined: 12/8/2010
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May I humbly suggest that you take a look at all of the folks who made mods up to this point and give them the update for free. And I hope that Haree78 has been helping you develop this expansion.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 33

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 10:50:56 PM

DevildogFF

Posts: 187
Joined: 12/8/2012
From: Northern Virginia, USA
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Yeah, getting the box. I want the manual. Very badly.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 34

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 11:16:02 PM

Cauldyth

Posts: 752
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A few observations and questions, based primarily on the screenshots on the product page:

* The setup screen suggests that the new start time comes with empires firmly established and in alliances - is there an option to have pre-warp, etc. starting conditions?

* Are the new tech tree items available in all starts, or only the new timeline start?

* In the diplomacy screens, I see the name of an alliance is now included for races which have Mutual Defense Pacts - can we create these alliances in the course of a game, or are they hardwired?

* In the tech tree where it's showing Machine Intelligence, it says that the Sentient Computer Core wonder generates 5% towards victory for every year it remains operational. I don't have a question, I just want to applaud what is essentially a new victory condition that doesn't involve massive conquest! Hopefully the AI knows to go all out trying to destroy it once it's built!

* We demand more info about the new colony-manufactured resources!

(in reply to DevildogFF)

Post #: 35

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 11:18:56 PM

Cauldyth

Posts: 752
Joined: 6/27/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrApostle
May I humbly suggest that you take a look at all of the folks who made mods up to this point and give them the update for free. And I hope that Haree78 has been helping you develop this expansion.

At the end of Das's most recent Let's Play series, he mentions that Haree has access to the development version and already has a new Extended mod in preparation. I would imagine most of the modders have been given access, and that we'll see their new Universe mods arrive almost immediately after the game itself.

(in reply to DrApostle)

Post #: 36

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/14/2014 11:56:56 PM

CyclopsSlayer

Posts: 583
Joined: 2/11/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
The biggest question for me, besides the obvious one of whether the AI can deal with modded changes, is whether we can change that damn tiny font. I'm sick and tired of 1366 by 768 but I just can't read the damn text if I use my monitor's native 1920 by 1080. Some appreciation of those with crap eyesight would be really nice.

We actually increased the font size in all the key problem areas during Shadows development as well as added the ability to scale the text part of the main display. Beyond that, there's not much more we can do until DW2.

Regards,

- Erik

The selection window in the lower left should have a scroll bar added, or should expand upward as messages are added.
When the colony has a couple status event lines, ie; recently raided + Resource shortages. Then the bottom parts of the window are lost off the bottom of the screen.

As for DW2, please please please add a font size selection or slider. @1920x1080 things often get VERY hard to read.
-Is that Weapon Tech at 66% or 88%, or is that 35%? Even with nose to screen it is sometime hard to tell.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 37

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 2:02:26 AM

Simulation01

Posts: 540
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Thanks for the answer Erik! I look forward to the expansion!

_____________________________

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though we are not now that strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will." -Tennyson

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 38

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 6:37:35 AM

tjhkkr

Posts: 2428
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Ummm wow.

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Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 39

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 8:36:53 AM

Deathball

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Reading this I'm actually surprised by the font complaints. I've never had any trouble reading anything and hope that any changes would be optional since I like having information compressed like that.

(in reply to tjhkkr)

Post #: 40

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 10:27:01 AM

Tcby

Posts: 342
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From: Australia
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This is looking great :D

I will certainly be modding this game.

< Message edited by Tcby -- 3/15/2014 11:28:27 AM >

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 41

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 2:00:13 PM

Osito

Posts: 875
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball

Reading this I'm actually surprised by the font complaints. I've never had any trouble reading anything and hope that any changes would be optional since I like having information compressed like that.

Well, I'm glad for you that you haven't had any issue with this, but I can assure you that some people do, as I was one of them. If I were 30 years younger, I'll bet I wouldn't have had a problem either, but the fact is that your eyes go off as you get older, and even wearing glasses doesn't completely correct it. At a native 2,560x1,440 I found much of the the screen unreadable, especially the stuff down the left hand side and along the top. I'm using a native 1920x1200 at the moment, which is okay, but could be better.

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 42

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 4:09:09 PM

Spidey

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Joined: 12/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

I really hope the Shaktur Dominion are serious bad asses (e.g. like the Borg in Star Trek Armada 3) and this game is much more difficult. I want to get slaughtered in my first Universe game ...

I hope vanilla Universe won't do the trick for you (since that's bad, bad news for the rest of us), but my worklist (assuming I have the time) looks like this:

1) Rebalance torpedo tech
2) Make it more fuel intensive to do early scouting so scout spam will be a serious drain on fuel reserves.
3) Make it possible for all planet types to have good stuff so players can't just pass by systems that are all ice, gas, and barren. This makes AI scouting more efficient and reduces the benefit of mega-micro.
4) Rebalance technocracy so it doesn't all by itself turn halfwits into genius scientists.
5) A buff to anti-fighter tech so players can't just go mass carriers for the win.
6) If possible and not too much of a right pain in the nutsack, fiddle with AI research and build strategies.
7) More emphasis on econ and warrior bonuses for the relevant races so those races stand a chance of keeping up with the research races.
8) More anti-corruption options so you don't end up with a galaxy funded by 5-6 super-colonies near the regional capitals.

Save for the AI tinkering, I'm reasonably confident that Universe will actually allow those things to get done. Am I missing any obvious player exploits? I would think that even you might suddenly find yourself forced to rethink your strategies if I can manage to get these things done right.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 43

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 4:34:46 PM

Spidey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball

Reading this I'm actually surprised by the font complaints. I've never had any trouble reading anything and hope that any changes would be optional since I like having information compressed like that.

Well, I fixed it by dropping the resolution on my monitor but I'm fairly sure the biggest problem is how damned gnarly the font is. It's hard to tell letters apart, at least for me, and at 1920x1080 the font really isn't very big at all. I need to concentrate a lot and that's not a good way of trying to relax. Gives me a headache too.

A new pair of glasses might help out but reading is only really a problem with DW.

(in reply to Deathball)

Post #: 44

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/15/2014 6:15:09 PM

towerbooks3192

Posts: 337
Joined: 8/12/2012
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My main concerns are the price, discount of people who have everything before DWU and whether or not the discount would apply to physical copies and if matrix would ship to Australia.

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 45

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 8:16:19 AM

DrWolfsherz

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/1/2013
Status: offline

Seriously do something about the font, then I am happily buying Universe.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 46

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 10:26:44 AM

Tcby

Posts: 342
Joined: 12/16/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

I'm hoping for Australian shipping too :)

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 47

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 10:38:57 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

I really hope the Shaktur Dominion are serious bad asses (e.g. like the Borg in Star Trek Armada 3) and this game is much more difficult. I want to get slaughtered in my first Universe game ...

I hope vanilla Universe won't do the trick for you (since that's bad, bad news for the rest of us), but my worklist (assuming I have the time) looks like this:

1) Rebalance torpedo tech
2) Make it more fuel intensive to do early scouting so scout spam will be a serious drain on fuel reserves.
3) Make it possible for all planet types to have good stuff so players can't just pass by systems that are all ice, gas, and barren. This makes AI scouting more efficient and reduces the benefit of mega-micro.
4) Rebalance technocracy so it doesn't all by itself turn halfwits into genius scientists.
5) A buff to anti-fighter tech so players can't just go mass carriers for the win.
6) If possible and not too much of a right pain in the nutsack, fiddle with AI research and build strategies.
7) More emphasis on econ and warrior bonuses for the relevant races so those races stand a chance of keeping up with the research races.
8) More anti-corruption options so you don't end up with a galaxy funded by 5-6 super-colonies near the regional capitals.

Save for the AI tinkering, I'm reasonably confident that Universe will actually allow those things to get done. Am I missing any obvious player exploits? I would think that even you might suddenly find yourself forced to rethink your strategies if I can manage to get these things done right.

The key is being able to mod the AI as you hinted in Item 6 (also exploration AI, fleet building AI and so on). Technology selling is also a huge exploit that has never been fixed. The other items would slow it all down but it's easy enough to win on Extreme even when other empires are far more advanced as well (or die in 5 minutes, nothing in between).

< Message edited by Icemania -- 3/17/2014 11:39:49 AM >

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 48

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 10:41:19 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tcby
I'm hoping for Australian shipping too :)

Another Aussie here too.

Although I don't understand why so many want physical copies!

(in reply to Tcby)

Post #: 49

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 11:04:28 AM

Tcby

Posts: 342
Joined: 12/16/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

I only care about physical copies for games I *really* like. It's more a show of support than anything else.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 50

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 2:32:34 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tcby
I'm hoping for Australian shipping too :)

Another Aussie here too.

Although I don't understand why so many want physical copies!

For most of us, the full color printed manual is a big deal. It is far easier for me to read a printed book than a .pdf file...

And there is the nostalgia of it...reminds us of the 'good old days' when everything came in a box with a nice printed manual.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 51

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/17/2014 2:34:40 PM

towerbooks3192

Posts: 337
Joined: 8/12/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tcby
I'm hoping for Australian shipping too :)

Another Aussie here too.

Although I don't understand why so many want physical copies!

Personally, for the manual and something to show off to everyone and I am going to frame it and place a plaque that it is the greatest 4x yet until the sequel comes out. Really hope for Australian shipping and good discount on it though as it costs an arm and a leg.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 52

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/18/2014 12:35:04 AM

Spidey

Posts: 411
Joined: 12/8/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

The key is being able to mod the AI as you hinted in Item 6 (also exploration AI, fleet building AI and so on). Technology selling is also a huge exploit that has never been fixed. The other items would slow it all down but it's easy enough to win on Extreme even when other empires are far more advanced as well (or die in 5 minutes, nothing in between).

Yeah, I know about tech selling but there's no fixing the values of tech and I don't think mods can convince the AI that paying 100k credits for a tech that's "worth" 200k is actually a bad deal. Then again, I'm not sure how the mechanoids are made to refuse any and all trade, but some level of that might work as a fix for those who don't want to disable tech trade entirely.

And yes, the other things won't keep you from winning but they'll even things out a bit. And alleviate the pain of either being tremendously inefficient or being stuck in a micro nightmare. It's also my suspicion that the AI ends up building itself into a corner somewhat by trying to build too much and then running into corruption issues that reduce further economic growth.

But what you seem to be hoping for, I gather, is something that will make the AI a better "chess player" than you are and that's just not likely to happen in a game this complex. There will always be moves and counter-moves and since you're human, you'll be actively looking for AI behavior patterns and how to manipulate them while the AI can only really be programmed to look at the raw basics of the scenario and how to respond to that. This means you can set traps for the AI but it can't very easily set traps for you.

What can happen, however, is that the AI empires are made sufficiently competitive that you have to worry a whole lot about getting yourself entangled in too many confrontations. Think of it as a tiger vs wolfpack scenario. A tiger will kill a wolf any day, but a tiger can only chew on one thing at a time. If you're busy chewing on one wolf then the other 12 might decide to start chewing on you. If you refrain from chewing on anything then they'll back off, but then you'll also not be able to eat.

There's one other thing I don't know how to fix, by the way, and it involves the rather predictable AI response whenever hostile ships moves into a system. Abusing this won't make battles totally one-sided, but it will help reducing the effect of an AI having numerical superiority in the system, assuming tech parity. Fixing this means messing with the raw AI code, which almost certainly won't be an option.

Oh, and of course there's the obvious diplomacy thing where you bend over backwards to keep the other factions happy while you maul convenient targets one at a time, keeping you out of multi-front wars. That's not something a modder can fix either. I think the best answer for this is a historical aggression value assigned to each faction, so if someone decides to pull a Putin then other factions will remember it and be paranoid as hell about it for a few decades, no matter how much one tries to chat them up.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 53

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/18/2014 3:38:50 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey
Yeah, I know about tech selling but there's no fixing the values of tech and I don't think mods can convince the AI that paying 100k credits for a tech that's "worth" 200k is actually a bad deal. Then again, I'm not sure how the mechanoids are made to refuse any and all trade, but some level of that might work as a fix for those who don't want to disable tech trade entirely.

I would prefer that Universe has mod capabilities so that technology trading/selling can remain in the game but without it being an exploit e.g. allowing the pricing rules to be changed i.e. so they are not so overpriced. The AI's should also have some smarts to that pricing e.g. a militaristic race would not value economic technologies very highly etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

But what you seem to be hoping for, I gather, is something that will make the AI a better "chess player" than you are and that's just not likely to happen in a game this complex. There will always be moves and counter-moves and since you're human, you'll be actively looking for AI behavior patterns and how to manipulate them while the AI can only really be programmed to look at the raw basics of the scenario and how to respond to that. This means you can set traps for the AI but it can't very easily set traps for you.

What can happen, however, is that the AI empires are made sufficiently competitive that you have to worry a whole lot about getting yourself entangled in too many confrontations. Think of it as a tiger vs wolfpack scenario. A tiger will kill a wolf any day, but a tiger can only chew on one thing at a time. If you're busy chewing on one wolf then the other 12 might decide to start chewing on you. If you refrain from chewing on anything then they'll back off, but then you'll also not be able to eat.

No I'm not expecting the AI to be a better chess player. In background, as a hobby many years ago, I did my "other" Honours degree in Algorithms. What is workable is implementing an expert system for the AI based on good human players. And even better continuing to update the AI in patches after release to capture new strategies. What the AI current does with research orders, build orders, ship build size and exploration (amongst other factors), IMO, can be vastly improved with this approach. I just hope Universe opens up the AI to this. I'm happy to help provide strategies for modders and test them.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 3/18/2014 4:39:36 AM >

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 54

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/18/2014 4:48:27 AM

Haree78

Posts: 1269
Joined: 5/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrApostle

May I humbly suggest that you take a look at all of the folks who made mods up to this point and give them the update for free. And I hope that Haree78 has been helping you develop this expansion.

I'm involved don't worry ;)
And again it's not my place to reveal stuff but really pleased with what I am able to do with the current version of the Extended mod.
Any previous missing issues for modding are in that I might need.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Extended
Battlestar Galactica Legends Mod

(in reply to DrApostle)

Post #: 55

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/18/2014 6:10:54 AM

towerbooks3192

Posts: 337
Joined: 8/12/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrApostle

May I humbly suggest that you take a look at all of the folks who made mods up to this point and give them the update for free. And I hope that Haree78 has been helping you develop this expansion.

I'm involved don't worry ;)
And again it's not my place to reveal stuff but really pleased with what I am able to do with the current version of the Extended mod.
Any previous missing issues for modding are in that I might need.

Sweet! Big fan of the extended mod. I rarely play games modded but I installed DW Extended because its great and makes the game feels like a different game.

(in reply to Haree78)

Post #: 56

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/18/2014 2:46:13 PM

Cauldyth

Posts: 752
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quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192
I rarely play games modded but I installed DW Extended because its great and makes the game feels like a different game.

Same here. DW Extended is the only mod I've used for any game, not just DW, in many years.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 57

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/20/2014 2:10:22 AM

Noble713

Posts: 53
Joined: 1/11/2011
From: Japan (US expat)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania
Although I don't understand why so many want physical copies!

Likewise. I've got enough stuff cluttering my apartment already. I've been digitizing documents and magazine articles and tossing the hard copies left and right lately.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 58

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/20/2014 9:44:01 AM

Icemania

Posts: 1847
Joined: 6/5/2013
From: Australia
Status: offline

Maybe if there was a Distant Worlds Collectors Edition with a model Silvermist?

And then when you wake up in the morning there are 128 of them ...

< Message edited by Icemania -- 3/20/2014 12:17:07 PM >

(in reply to Noble713)

Post #: 59

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 3/20/2014 10:58:55 AM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
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Status: offline

If the silvermist model comes to life, I doubt you wake up at all.

(in reply to Icemania)

Post #: 60