RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced!

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/28/2014 10:14:03 PM

DevildogFF

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

not mentioned in that particular release is that it only mentions one of the four rooms where we will be showing games to the press and that's not the room that has Distant Worlds: Universe in it.

So if it's not in the "fantasy and science-fiction room", then which one will it be in?

I like Distant Worlds and you've been pretty cordial, Erik, and I appreciate that, but I just don't see all of this adding up.

For what it's worth, I'm done arguing. This doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't make sense to us, DW's most loyal fans. I'm not sure why you're being an apologist for your marketing wing, but it's apparent that there's something amiss here.

Anyway, I'm over it. Do what you will (and already have). I'll keep buying DW games as long as they exist.

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Post #: 151

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/28/2014 11:16:06 PM

Osito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DevildogFF

I'm not sure why you're being an apologist for your marketing wing, but it's apparent that there's something amiss here.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of the issues under discussion, for Erik to give his support to his firm's marketing department is simply the professional way for him to conduct himself.

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Post #: 152

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 2:15:24 AM

Spidey

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Just for the record, you're looking at press releases, Devildog. They're meant to gather external interest in the event. What's the point of naming a title that has absolutely zero external pull in such a press release? How many more people will come if they know DW:U is on display? Just about nobody, since that's approximately how famous the title seems to be, which is largely the main point of putting it on display at the event in the first place?

There should be a complete program for the event in the not too distant future that includes DW, but I wouldn't put too much into DW not being mentioned in those press releases. Besides, that release about the sci-fi room was made back in the beginning of March, and I'm not sure they actually had the plans quite hammered down back then. And it's pretty harsh to blame Matrix for not mentioning a game in a press release about a press event when they weren't quite sure they wouldn't already have released the title by the time the event actually came around.

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Post #: 153

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 3:21:34 AM

Unforeseen

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Personally i find all this complaining ridiculous. The bottom line is that it is Matrix's game, it's there product and its their property that they are going to sell to you. They have ZERO obligation to release information about their products before they are on the shelves.

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Post #: 154

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 4:48:02 AM

hewwo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Personally i find all this complaining ridiculous. The bottom line is that it is Matrix's game, it's there product and its their property that they are going to sell to you. They have ZERO obligation to release information about their products before they are on the shelves.

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Post #: 155

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 10:06:27 AM

feygan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Personally i find all this complaining ridiculous. The bottom line is that it is Matrix's game, it's there product and its their property that they are going to sell to you. They have ZERO obligation to release information about their products before they are on the shelves.

Except it is not a product of Matrix Games, yes I understand they are the publisher and through a strange witchery of legal print this allows them the rights. However DW is the brain child of the developer who as I understand it is a single guy working alone, no doubt he plowed both time and finances into getting this game made to begin with and endured some roller coaster moments wondering if it was going to work out or if he was going to have go back to the 9-5 grind.

To excuse a publishers actions based on the "ownership rights" of the ip is crazy as it sets forth a precedence for screwing over developers like cash cows to be milked at set times. A publishers first and foremost duty should be to ensure their clients are represented in the absolute best possible way imaginable, if that isn't happening the publisher should be taking measures to rectify it or sever the relationship to allow the client to find another backer who will put their interests fore front.

For me and I will take a guess many others this is the real issue, no one really cares if this whole thing hurts Matrix and reduces their revenue, what we care about is seeing more DW and that means the developer needs to be able to support himself and his family.

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Post #: 156

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 10:34:26 AM

Icemania

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Well for my part I'm going to back off for the moment until a little while after DWU is released. Erik has acknowledged Distant Worlds is not as well know as it's main competitors (a step forward in my book) and hopefully Matrix Marketing appreciate the legitimate points made and have an action plan that will lead to results.

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Post #: 157

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 10:50:45 AM

DevildogFF

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What Ice said. Damn, you're an articulate person, good sir. I like it.

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Post #: 158

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 2:50:10 PM

Erik Rutins

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Hi Feygan,

quote:

ORIGINAL: feygan
Except it is not a product of Matrix Games, yes I understand they are the publisher and through a strange witchery of legal print this allows them the rights. However DW is the brain child of the developer who as I understand it is a single guy working alone, no doubt he plowed both time and finances into getting this game made to begin with and endured some roller coaster moments wondering if it was going to work out or if he was going to have go back to the 9-5 grind.

To excuse a publishers actions based on the "ownership rights" of the ip is crazy as it sets forth a precedence for screwing over developers like cash cows to be milked at set times. A publishers first and foremost duty should be to ensure their clients are represented in the absolute best possible way imaginable, if that isn't happening the publisher should be taking measures to rectify it or sever the relationship to allow the client to find another backer who will put their interests fore front.

For me and I will take a guess many others this is the real issue, no one really cares if this whole thing hurts Matrix and reduces their revenue, what we care about is seeing more DW and that means the developer needs to be able to support himself and his family.

This goes back to one of my earlier points. There are publishers who just sign a developer, take whatever that developer provides and send it out there. We are not that kind of publisher.

We fully support our developers through out the entire process. We worked together with Elliot on the original Distant Worlds for more than two years before it was released, funding and providing almost all of the art as well as advice on many other parts of the game. We have also been actively involved in each expansion and helping Elliot navigate the future of DW in terms of features, design and development, community feedback as well as marketing, publishing and finances.

Without Matrix Games, there would still have been a DW, but it would not be this DW. For better or worse (we certainly believe for the better), we are very involved with our developers and making sure that they are well supported, successful, secure and happy and that the exclusive games we publish meet our community's expectations and raise the bar for our community in as many areas as possible.

There are certainly other publishers out there, but Elliot chose to work with us after evaluating his options and has stayed with us and we're honored to have him here. There are many developers who we've worked with for over a decade simply because the kind of relationship, trust and support we offer is different from what they get with other publishers. Our goal is always to make sure that we make the best games possible and that our developers succeed and thrive so that they can continue making these kinds of games. These are the kinds of games we all love to play.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 4/29/2014 3:51:03 PM >

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Post #: 159

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 8:20:16 PM

ehsumrell1

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Well said Erik!

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 4/29/2014 11:30:44 PM

tjhkkr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

Well said Erik!

I do not know the situation, so I have kept my mouth shut, but I think Ed here does know the situation as a tester of the product...

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Post #: 161

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/2/2014 1:21:06 PM

Flinkebeinchen

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The Steam sales must go very well, Pandora is also going to Steam (May 30). I hope DW:U gets a release there too, with integrated Steamworks maybe for easy mod downloading? Well, that would be cool.

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Post #: 162

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/3/2014 5:16:36 AM

Zulgaines

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I believe I've personally sent more people to buy Distant Worlds in the last year than the publisher has. It's sad to see such an amazing game be hidden away from all those poor people starved for a real 4x experience.

< Message edited by Zulgaines -- 5/3/2014 6:17:00 AM >

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Post #: 163

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/3/2014 1:39:37 PM

Osito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zulgaines

I believe I've personally sent more people to buy Distant Worlds in the last year than the publisher has. It's sad to see such an amazing game be hidden away from all those poor people starved for a real 4x experience.

Given that "Shadows" came out within the last year, that's one hell of a claim ...

< Message edited by Osito -- 5/3/2014 2:40:41 PM >

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Post #: 164

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/4/2014 1:40:28 AM

Zulgaines

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Osito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zulgaines

I believe I've personally sent more people to buy Distant Worlds in the last year than the publisher has. It's sad to see such an amazing game be hidden away from all those poor people starved for a real 4x experience.

Given that "Shadows" came out within the last year, that's one hell of a claim ...

Oh, most the people I know who like strategy games own DW now, also brought it to the attention of a lot of my online friends and people I've met in games/on forums.

Besides that, I've always had a fondness of the hyperbole.

< Message edited by Zulgaines -- 5/4/2014 2:41:37 AM >

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Post #: 165

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/4/2014 9:15:48 AM

Osito

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zulgaines

Besides that, I've always had a fondness of the hyperbole.

Yes, I know what you mean - I've done that myself millions of times :-)

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Post #: 166

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/5/2014 10:06:37 PM

Tom_Holsinger

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Universe Release Requests

Probably some to most of these standard:

1) I'd like the ability to download the game software immediately and order the maxi-pack physical package with the full-color manual.

2) I'd like all the on-line tutorials made available by download link from the same website we download the game from. I know the tutorials for prior versions are available now but want the most recently updated ones (preferably updated for Universe) to be on the game software download site so I can bookmark it and grab updated tutorials as those are posted. I intend to use the tutorials to learn Universe while using the manual, when it arrives, to study details. A downloadable full-color manual with hyper-text links would be nifty but I can understand security concerns.

3) I'd like the ability to register Universe on two computers - my desktop and my laptop. I'll leave on vacation on June 15 and am certain that I'll transfer games in progress from one to the other, depending on when Universe is released.

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Post #: 167

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/6/2014 6:01:28 PM

Spidey

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Regarding 3, I'm pretty sure that's not a problem. The key check thing doesn't tie the game to your computer, as far as I know, it simply checks if you've got a valid key. If you do, and you will if you've bought the game, then installation continues and you'll never see that key thing again, at least not until next time you need to install the game.

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Post #: 168

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/6/2014 7:36:27 PM

Tom_Holsinger

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Thanks, Spidey. And I just realized that a color version of the manual with hyper-text links can be on the CD, or in the downloadable game software.

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Post #: 169

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 6:32:42 AM

Paradox Pancake

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I don't post here much, if at all, because I generally dislike the premise behind forums on a whole but I'd like to post this as someone who has a cousin who works for Bethesda Softworks and I've personally seen how much heart and soul goes into game development and publishing.

First, there is an awful amount of entitlement and vitriol coming from some people on this thread and I'm not going to name folks as I'm sure you know who you are. The fact that Erik is even on such a face-to-face level with the community as a publisher and is doing what he can to provide you all with information is leagues ahead of most publishers who could honestly care less about your business and all they want from you is to buy their game and shut up. Matrix may not get involved with Steam or other digital distribution platforms but that does not impact your enjoyment of the game nor does it reflect poorly on Matrix as a whole. It's their decision as a company in how they can both deliver a game like Distant Worlds to you, have it live up to your expectations as a publisher, and make a profit in a highly niche market.

Distant Worlds is an amazing game and is a 4x strategy that, I personally feel, outshines even MoO2 in the level of detail, strategy, and quality and now we're getting a final expansion that adds new content and modding functionality which is going to make the game even grander in the large scheme of things. One thing some folks need to desperately do is get rid of your sense of entitlement. You are owed nothing save the game you paid for and you have been given what you have paid for (which is to say NOTHING at the time of this post as DW:U has not come out yet). It does not give you the right to blast the publisher or the developer or make personal jabs at them because you have a disagreement.

I'd like to say this: Thank you Erik for the time you give to the community. You are under no compulsion to do so, I'm sure, but you love the game and the people who play it enough to fill us in with as much detail as you can and I can tell that just by looking at your post history and the fact that you've given personal time to help address people's issues (including my own when I first bought the game and joined the community!) and criticisms with it (despite some of those criticisms being some of the most hateful things I've ever seen written by people). Thank you to Elliot for making one of the best, if not the best, strategy 4x's out there. As someone who has family and knows how much of your heart and soul goes into a game that you create, know that you have players out there who really enjoy it and love it for what it is. Thanks again.

< Message edited by Paradox Pancake -- 5/7/2014 7:34:45 AM >

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 7:05:40 AM

joeyeti

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I like pancake

And it IS the best 4X (even outside Space).

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 7:22:26 AM

ehsumrell1

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Well stated Paradox Pancake!

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 11:33:48 AM

StarLab

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+1 to the Pancake!

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Post #: 173

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 11:58:10 AM

Icemania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradox Pancake
First, there is an awful amount of entitlement and vitriol coming from some people on this thread and I'm not going to name folks as I'm sure you know who you are.

As it's not clear where this is directed, I can only assume that I'm included in the net of your comment.

Consider the definition of entitlement, probably the most pertinent description is "the feeling or belief that you deserve to be given something (such as special privileges)".

With respect to the game itself, or Matrix marketing efforts, I feel entitled to precisely nothing. Matrix are perfectly entitled to do whatever they wish. I'll buy Universe regardless.

What I am perfectly entitled to do is express an opinion so long as that opinion remains with forum rules ... just as you have just done. I would certainly not accuse you of being entitled as a result.

I feel it's quite unreasonable to simplistically dismiss the views expressed under the banner of Entitlement, some legitimate points have been made.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paradox Pancake
The fact that Erik is even on such a face-to-face level with the community as a publisher and is doing what he can to provide you all with information is leagues ahead of most publishers who could honestly care less about your business and all they want from you is to buy their game and shut up. Matrix may not get involved with Steam or other digital distribution platforms but that does not impact your enjoyment of the game nor does it reflect poorly on Matrix as a whole. It's their decision as a company in how they can both deliver a game like Distant Worlds to you, have it live up to your expectations as a publisher, and make a profit in a highly niche market.

It's good to see Erik post information but it's also pertinent to consider what the competition is doing. If you do not follow them closely, as I do, you may want to have a look at what Galactic Civilisations, Endless Space and Stardrive are doing with respect to the information provided prior to release. In short, Distant Worlds is leagues behind it's direct competitors. That said, I certainly appreciate Erik's recent posts.

< Message edited by Icemania -- 5/8/2014 4:04:54 AM >

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 4:37:24 PM

Cauldyth

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What I don't understand is why people are so obsessed with trying to help Matrix run their company. Buncha backseat drivers, if you ask me!

quote:

I would defend our right to do so with my life

Wait, what? If Matrix told you that you could no longer post your opinions on their private forums, you'd lay down your life to fight them on that? I hope that's hyperbole...

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Post #: 175

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/7/2014 8:20:02 PM

Icemania

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Freedom of Speech. Yeah it was OTT after Pancake stated we did not have the right to criticise the publisher ...

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/8/2014 2:33:05 AM

Bebop Cola

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Freedom of speech and declarations to defend it with lives?

FFS. Did this thread turn into some U.S. ultra-patriot rally?

Let's get some perspective here, folks.

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Post #: 177

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/8/2014 3:07:53 AM

Icemania

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As I said already those particular words were OTT, I have amended my post accordingly, and fully standby my comments otherwise.

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RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/8/2014 9:16:26 AM

feygan

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Ok that was at least amusing as an argument in the corner of a publishing house. To say folks are feeling entitled seems odd since no one has made demands about the game nor have they threatened pitchforks for not being told the exact info they want. Instead all that has happened is some people have been critical (in varying degrees) of the marketing strategy being employed for DW:U. I don't recall anywhere things getting personal towards either the developer or members of the publishing house though? perhaps someone has misread harsh professional criticism as a deep personal attack?

But to offer up a counter argument I would say that everyone is fully entitled to make requests for information and make threats of not buying etc. This is a company that is part of a free market capitalist society, as such this company and all others can make as much or as little profit as they wish providing they follow some basic laws and procedures. Other than that the gloves are off and it is a true dog eat dog world, those who are hungry enough will find creative and effective means of making their profits, those who do not will fall down. Pancake's cousin may very well put 500% into every task everyday at work but I will wager there are folks at that workplace who do not do likewise, so using one person as a baseline for how every other employee of every other publisher acts is at best misguided.

I fully agree and support the fact that Matrix Games can do as they like with the games they hold rights over, push them to great heights or let them slide away it is the publishers choice. However they have also chosen to host an open and public forum and as such have to accept the choices of poster comments and the effects they will have on their business. It's often said that shoppers vote with their feet, but we no longer live in the 18th century and shoppers now will kick up some dust while walking. If a company is not savvy enough to notice that reputations can be made and destroyed with customer relations then they cannot complain later while lying in the scrapheap. I find it a little facist in thinking when I see folks saying that someone has no right to make demands on companies etc, when the same rights are what allow that person to criticise the demand making.

1. A company has a right to provide or deny any information about a product to potential/existing customers.
2. Said customers have a right to question/speak out/shout about all aspects of the company methods regarding the product (provided done in a way that follows the rules of a public forum).
3. Others have a right to counter the demands and make arguments against them.
4. The sales figures will do the rest.

Providing things do not degenerate into bouts of mindless abuse and name calling then there is absolutely no harm in arguments about products and if they did not happen things would never change and services would never improve. I do wonder though in the case of people who so vehemently defend publishers/producers etc and say folks have no right to make demands, just what exactly have these companies ever given them? Using an argument such as "countless hours of enjoyment from great products" is not an answer, you were not given it you worked hard for cash and bought the product. Few if any companies have actually "given" us anything at all, it is just a series of transactions which some feel satisfied with and others do not. Even when I am fully satisfied with a product I am still interested to hear why someone else is not and how they think it could be improved, at no point do I feel this product is a deeply personal thing for me that I should defend it without question.

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Post #: 179

RE: Distant Worlds: Universe Announced! - 5/8/2014 12:55:24 PM

Icemania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
What I don't understand is why people are so obsessed with trying to help Matrix run their company.

It starts with a broader observation. The best games in the Space 4X genre, in my opinion, are all severely lacking in ambition. While I have hope for some upcoming titles, I'd put a heap of cash behind the Space 4X equivalent of Star Citizen i.e. with vision, past track record, interaction and as a result of that cash a serious development team.

Now add to that what we have here with Distant Worlds. The Space 4X game I play the most is currently (awaiting the Universe campaign) the most backwards of all of the Space 4X games I've played in recent years with respect to marketing and interaction. As a result the chances of Distant Worlds 2 being taken to the next level are lower and it seems more likely we'll get an increment.

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