Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Planning - I hope you have removed your APs that convert to APAs in 3/43 from active service. Mine are all at port "X." You will need all the assault shipping you can get in '43. There are some Brit/CW that go from APs to LCI about that time to. Double check to ensure that all your Dominion Troop Class and Pacific Troop Class xAKs to xAPs are converted. For me, these two classes are my workhorse for 42 in moving troops around (mostly in Pacific to Aussie route with points in between). You will get a trickle of the USAT EC2 Class xAKs that can convert to xAPs starting in 2/42. You will eventually be swimming in Liberty ships for your xAKs.

What do you plan to do with your Marines?? As you well know, these guys win where ever they go.

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I wouldn't call a x2 a "high" multiplier, at least not in the sense that I'd go for them to stave off autovictory. You can achieve the same thing elsewhere, all other factors equal, because really you need to be working at maintaining a war of attrition at as close to a 1:1 as possible (though even up to a 1:3 is acceptable if staving off AV is your only goal). And to do that, you need to sink ships, shoot down planes, and destroy LCU devices. The game doesn't care where on the map you do this. So when weighing doing it at x2 bases against at x1 bases... just do it wherever you can succeed.

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There might be other factors to go after bases, though - Port Moresby is not so valuable in staving off Japanese AV, but extremely valuable in lowering Japan's VP denominator for obtaining Allied AV (although remember that a base with 0 Supply is only worth 25% of its total, and a base with 50% Supply is only worth 62.5% of its total). So that factors into more long term considerations... You also want to get at the meat of the VPs available on the map - that's some places in the SRA, the Marianas, the PI, and other strongpoints scattered around the Pacific.

Basically, I'm saying don't worry about the x2 bases. The x10 ones - yeah, go for those. Worry about the x2 later if it ends up being the deciding factor between, say, the Solomons and the Marshalls.

All of that said, you should totally be building up all the bases you can, even the x1 and x2. Start with the airfields! Unless you need the port capacity.

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Lastly, if you think he has even a small chance to take Chungking... I wouldn't build that airfield. That's a VP gift to him.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I wouldn't call a x2 a "high" multiplier, at least not in the sense that I'd go for them to stave off autovictory. You can achieve the same thing elsewhere, all other factors equal, because really you need to be working at maintaining a war of attrition at as close to a 1:1 as possible (though even up to a 1:3 is acceptable if staving off AV is your only goal). And to do that, you need to sink ships, shoot down planes, and destroy LCU devices. The game doesn't care where on the map you do this. So when weighing doing it at x2 bases against at x1 bases... just do it wherever you can succeed.

These become a 'high' multiplier in combination if I can pick up ten x2 bases and build them before the end of the year, which looks like it would not be too hard at this point. It's not Krasnoyarsk, or Noumea, but having many bases also means he can't push and take a few very high multiplier bases just before 1/43 to make a big play for AV. A lot of smaller bases fairly well built up is better. It's also a good place to fight Japan if he wants to fight there, although not so strategically important. Doing this could also put pressure on Port Moresby and/or Rabaul, which are both worth a lot to Japan.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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Lastly, if you think he has even a small chance to take Chungking... I wouldn't build that airfield. That's a VP gift to him.

It would take an all-out effort to get to Chungking before 1/43. That is now less than 8 months. He's still in the same place as two months ago when the last offensive stopped. Even with all free divisions in China, all of the air force, with SL it would take a good while to break through and then take Chungking. I did it in my game against Torsten in 6/43 without stacking limits and with a big air force there, and only got h ease because he split with 800k men to the mountains.

If he does make that effort and gets it after 1/43 I'll have a whole year to deal with getting those points back.

I'm building the field.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

With SLs it's a totally different ballgame. It's much more about maneuver and using reserves, maximizing firepower in a hex and wearing down an area slowly. You can still get a bigger, more experienced or more capable army to break through. Setting lines with forts built in good territory though will be hard to break quickly.

If he attacks he may even get a 2:1, but may take decent losses, be out of supply, not be able to follow that up immediately. With 3 forts built for units in an SL hex, then you can move in reserves, make up for losses, get a fresh unit in play and the next attack may be at square one again, even getting a worse result. What it will take is an air force, and he seems much more interested in using these in OZ and India. This may change soon as OZ went more quickly than I'm sure he'd planned. So maybe it'll all shift back to China and India now.

Still, an offensive now will take a while. Psingiang still holds which I thought would fall months ago. A small flanking move got stalled in the woods there, and I've had time to get 3k AV ready for a flanking push to the South if that comes. Some dug in and some repairing and gaining experience in the bases nearby. Many units have added a third to their AV in repaired squads, are up to 45-50 exp, and have had better leaders installed. A second line past Sian has dug in fully, with each hex on the road about 3/4 maxed to give enough for reinforcements or a fall back if needed. It'll be long and bloody to get to Lanchow.

The Burma division still sits in Lashio and will soon move back into China proper, in front of Paoshan. The mountains have been lightly defended but I've just moved a few bigger Corps up there.

Here is a map from a while ago, but as I say, nothing has really changed. Notice I have the lines you're mentioning on the map here. If played well, this static line system with good mobile reserves can work in an SL game. If you own the hex you can then be sure to have time to add troops if he starts moving there, as it's almost impossible to get enough in a 25-40k hex to knock out the the 20-30k dug-in defenders quickly enough. In the first few weeks it works, but with 3-4 forts it's tougher. In front of Changsha for instance the force has grown from 1100 AV to 1500 AV (just repairing squads) and the units have between 3-5 forts in +3 terrain!

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I've highlighted those two passages because I want to bring something up. I've noticed, in the UI (which I have no reason to believe is lying to me...) that on the LCU List screen, it will say "Fortifications: 3 (building)" for those "organic" forts in the field. However, if you click on the individual LCUs, you will notice that if you have left any in a mode other than Combat or any more recently arrived units - those units build their own forts. The forts listed on the LCU list page seem to be the highest forts value among units on the list.

Likewise, I've never actually seen "forts (+)" show up in the combat report for a combat in a non-base hex. I have no reason to believe that these organic forts aren't making a difference, and given that I've seen the organic forts sometimes stop at 2, sometimes at 3, maybe they're tied to the defensive bonus of the terrain? I don't know. I just wanted to point out that I don't think fresh units moved into a non-base hex benefit from organic forts built by other units, and point to the UI clues that lead me to believe such a thing.

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If I had his position, this is how I would approach your lines of defense (which I'm sure he can see from at least 1 hex away, because Japanese recon in China is magic):

1) Approach Ankang from the SE. I posted in Jocke's AAR earlier about this area.

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2) Cut the southern rail line at Liuchow and/or Kweilin, or by moving a unit up and across the river between Kweilin and Hengyang.

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3) Close the hex sides to Pingsiang and then ignore it for later, while pushing to sever what you have at Kukong by taking that clear hex outside Hengyang.

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4) If he's really aggressive, he could move tanks up to cut your supply lines from Chungking. He could supply them via air drop, or at least well enough to make it worth the gamble. This is one instance where I endorse those kinds of lines - around large areas of Good Grey Road - you need to know where those tanks are. I suspect he probably has them in India, but... All it takes is an Armored Car Company or two on the roads and you'll never catch them with your slow infantry, all while he cuts your supply lines and keeps his in ample supply (for such a small unit requires little in the way of supplies) via air drop.

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I'm not saying that's what he'll do, or even if he'll identify the weak points the same as me... just pointing out where you're vulnerable, judging by that map. Particularly Kukong - if he begins making progress in the south, those guys could be cut off very quickly.

Stacking limits definitely appears to make China interesting, and is reinforcing my opinion that the IJA needs to move quickly here. It can be done without an air force, by the way, but why not use the restricted units already there?

What do the stacking numbers look like for those hexes, anyway?

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

He doesn't necessarily need to shock across the river. If I were doing it and wanted to avoid the shock, I'd place a small armored car unit on the road hex opposite you. Then I'd move into the woods to the NE and walk in from the east. Suicide shock with the armored cars to open the hex side and therefore the supply flow.

I think once (if...) you see tanks hit your battle lines in China, things will start to crumble. Chinese can't do squat against tanks.

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Looking at that map, I would take care of the hex 2 spots due south of Henyang. If he takes control of that hex, he can move immediately to the open hex - screwing up whatever you have going on at Kukong (forcing you to come back up the road, or else go west) and hurting the supply flow to your troops in the 65k hex just SW of Changsha.

If I were him, and really patient... I would march up the yellow road from Canton and then into the woods, and try to take the open hex from the west. Just before I tried to break the 30k hex that I just mentioned. If he proceeds due NE from Wuchow, it would be difficult for you to see. And if you do see it, he may not care. You seeing it may accomplish the same thing as him arriving unannounced.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

10-12 April, 1942

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SUBS: A token IJN sub is hanging out near Dante, the I-123, but it's so far not enough to do much as all convoys are escorted. A LOT of ships are passing this way though. Air ASW is operating from all of the bases out here.

INDIA: Japanese forces chase the units from Ledo along the edge of the mountains, and while they won't likely cut them off, will crush them in another battle soon.

Pacific: Logistics are hitting high levels now as supply, fuel and troops move across the Pacific and from Cape Town to South OZ. Sydney is just barely being supplied enough fuel to produce, but man, I certainly don't need more supply there. I need it in NW OZ in the desert.

CHINA: Nothing but daily bombardments at Pingsiang.

OZ: Fleeing units from Darwin all make it to safety except the Gull battalion, which I've just bought back. I managed to save the Lark as well as three other units trapped on New Guinea by walking out of the jungle and getting picked up by Cats. So amazing as I'm reading about the coast watchers in the war doing the same thing after the Japanese had over-run their positions. So great how this game even gets to that kind of detail.

SIGINT: I wonder why these are going there?

11/2nd Division is loaded on xAK Shirogane Maru moving to Balikpapan.
3/5th RF Gun Battalion is loaded on a Husimi Cargo class xAK moving to Balikpapan.

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

10-12 April, 1942

---

SUBS: A token IJN sub is hanging out near Dante, the I-123, but it's so far not enough to do much as all convoys are escorted. A LOT of ships are passing this way though. Air ASW is operating from all of the bases out here.

INDIA: Japanese forces chase the units from Ledo along the edge of the mountains, and while they won't likely cut them off, will crush them in another battle soon.

Pacific: Logistics are hitting high levels now as supply, fuel and troops move across the Pacific and from Cape Town to South OZ. Sydney is just barely being supplied enough fuel to produce, but man, I certainly don't need more supply there. I need it in NW OZ in the desert.

CHINA: Nothing but daily bombardments at Pingsiang.

OZ: Fleeing units from Darwin all make it to safety except the Gull battalion, which I've just bought back. I managed to save the Lark as well as three other units trapped on New Guinea by walking out of the jungle and getting picked up by Cats. So amazing as I'm reading about the coast watchers in the war doing the same thing after the Japanese had over-run their positions. So great how this game even gets to that kind of detail.

SIGINT: I wonder why these are going there?

11/2nd Division is loaded on xAK Shirogane Maru moving to Balikpapan.
3/5th RF Gun Battalion is loaded on a Husimi Cargo class xAK moving to Balikpapan.

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I have turned off HI in OZ. Supply is fairly easy to ship to OZ but I see no sense in shipping fuel there just to have it disappear as it is gobbled up by Australian industry. Plenty of supply in OZ. Getting it past Tennant Creak ins a pain in the ass. I found that I just could no sustain major troops in that area without taking a port. It is also hard for the Japanese to push supply up from Darwin to Tennant. I think that road only allows 500 supply per day to move down or up it.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

He doesn't necessarily need to shock across the river. If I were doing it and wanted to avoid the shock, I'd place a small armored car unit on the road hex opposite you. Then I'd move into the woods to the NE and walk in from the east. Suicide shock with the armored cars to open the hex side and therefore the supply flow.

I think once (if...) you see tanks hit your battle lines in China, things will start to crumble. Chinese can't do squat against tanks.

In this Babes mod ALL Chinese Corps have built in AT guns! Some up to 36 x 37mm!

It's not the same as stock at all, and already I've sen the benefits. The Corps simply don't crumble as they have in my Japanese games using stock.

If he moved around, I'd simply fill in all of the hexes he could go to and he'd be taking two months to get into a locked hex with little supply. I'd just have to move back across the river to close the flow if he only left the on suicide unit. If more then I'd keep trying to move in behind his advance in the woods. It would take time, and those wooded hexes are smaller, at 30-35k, so I could bring more on the road hexes and he'd get nowhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Looking at that map, I would take care of the hex 2 spots due south of Henyang. If he takes control of that hex, he can move immediately to the open hex - screwing up whatever you have going on at Kukong (forcing you to come back up the road, or else go west) and hurting the supply flow to your troops in the 65k hex just SW of Changsha.

If I were him, and really patient... I would march up the yellow road from Canton and then into the woods, and try to take the open hex from the west. Just before I tried to break the 30k hex that I just mentioned. If he proceeds due NE from Wuchow, it would be difficult for you to see. And if you do see it, he may not care. You seeing it may accomplish the same thing as him arriving unannounced.

All good ideas, but they take a long time and you move into small SL hexes again with little supply. I'd only need a few units blocking to force an advance through the woods to a halt if I could get to the good terrain in front before him. Kukong will be evacuated completely at any move toward it. It won't suck supply and I can't support defense there. He doesn't know that though and might think I'll move IN instead. It is good terrain. The hex just up the road is the one I plan to invest more in, still in +3 and tough to break with reserves again right behind it.

The one woods hex I've left free as any move there would take some time.

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ah, but you have to see them coming... That's a bit hard to do as the Chinese. They don't seem to get the magic recon. If he stayed 2 hexes away from your lines, as they are in that map, I doubt you'd see him coming.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ah, but you have to see them coming... That's a bit hard to do as the Chinese. They don't seem to get the magic recon. If he stayed 2 hexes away from your lines, as they are in that map, I doubt you'd see him coming.

RAF Lysanders! Five hex range. Just far enough, and has a camera on board. Single engine, very fuel efficient. I've got two groups in China, one on the front and one in reserve.

Notice I can' see a unit in Hankow.

The other thing i can do in a pinch is bring in Hudsons and bomb those hexes just to make sure nothing is there. Their transfer range should still allow me to fly them in and out.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

10-12 April, 1942

---

SUBS: A token IJN sub is hanging out near Dante, the I-123, but it's so far not enough to do much as all convoys are escorted. A LOT of ships are passing this way though. Air ASW is operating from all of the bases out here.

INDIA: Japanese forces chase the units from Ledo along the edge of the mountains, and while they won't likely cut them off, will crush them in another battle soon.

Pacific: Logistics are hitting high levels now as supply, fuel and troops move across the Pacific and from Cape Town to South OZ. Sydney is just barely being supplied enough fuel to produce, but man, I certainly don't need more supply there. I need it in NW OZ in the desert.

CHINA: Nothing but daily bombardments at Pingsiang.

OZ: Fleeing units from Darwin all make it to safety except the Gull battalion, which I've just bought back. I managed to save the Lark as well as three other units trapped on New Guinea by walking out of the jungle and getting picked up by Cats. So amazing as I'm reading about the coast watchers in the war doing the same thing after the Japanese had over-run their positions. So great how this game even gets to that kind of detail.

SIGINT: I wonder why these are going there?

11/2nd Division is loaded on xAK Shirogane Maru moving to Balikpapan.
3/5th RF Gun Battalion is loaded on a Husimi Cargo class xAK moving to Balikpapan.

---

I have turned off HI in OZ. Supply is fairly easy to ship to OZ but I see no sense in shipping fuel there just to have it disappear as it is gobbled up by Australian industry. Plenty of supply in OZ. Getting it past Tennant Creak ins a pain in the ass. I found that I just could no sustain major troops in that area without taking a port. It is also hard for the Japanese to push supply up from Darwin to Tennant. I think that road only allows 500 supply per day to move down or up it.

Yeah, I might just do that soon, but I'm so far keeping up okay. Not sure what I'll do with ALL of that supply though! After playing Japan I feel a bit silly looking at Bombay and Sydney with 500k+ each.

Tennant is failing to draw now and I'm trying to make this the holding point. Can't fight without supply though, so we'll see. Looks like his armor has turned around anyway. Alice Spings is building fast now and hopefully if I can get a lot there, then it will move on as well.

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ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The daily draw rate for Tennant Creek will go up once you can build up the AF and later the forts. In less than a year, you will have plenty of construction engineers to do so.

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The daily draw rate for Tennant Creek will go up once you can build up the AF and later the forts. In less than a year, you will have plenty of construction engineers to do so.

I have a few base forces from Darwin there now and they could build pretty fast but it's at 20 supply! I've got Alice Springs trying to tug supply in and then let it fee, but none seems to move on. Maybe it's just slow.

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

+1 to Diego Garcia. I'd probably use American APs and AKs to do it, via Cape Town. Possibly even American CVs. Diego's location makes it a much safer target than anything else you could target, and it has the x10 multiplier for you.

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yes, those banana boat AKLs were a pleasant surprise. Actually quite useful. Can they go into a fast transport TF?

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ORIGINAL: obvert

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yes, those banana boat AKLs were a pleasant surprise. Actually quite useful. Can they go into a fast transport TF?

Not sure, but it could just be an amphib TF. Maybe even just as an accompanying supply boat.