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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

 
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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 8:55:08 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Ain't it nice to have a sub with working torps!
Looks like two hits in two attacks? Any bonus explosions?


There were explosions in the replay, but not sure that indicates anything extra like fuel or ammo storage explosions. I haven't seen a correlation that was not cable, but maybe I've not paid attention, either.

Either way, we're going after her, and if her speed is down at all that should help the chase and in any further contact.

if you remember the Yorktown took two in the deep South Pacific, and she managed to get through hordes of IJN subs to make it back to PH, so there's no guarantee of getting another shot.


If there was any fuel or ammo explosions it will be listed in the CR.

And if you remember I lost the York to only 2 TTs recently...so nothing is given beforehand.



I hadn't remembered from seeing it in turn, but now that I've got the report, here it is!! Fuel storage explosion!!!

So that'll surely add some reduced speed, extra fires and more float damage. Looking good.

Here is the CR:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sept 30, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Sabang at 33,70

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Haruna
BB Kongo
CA Furutaka
CA Chokai
CA Atago
CS Chitose
DD Hagikaze
DD Arashi
DD Hamakaze
DD Naganami
DD Tatsuyuke
DD Inazuma
DD Kasumi
DD Yamagumo

Allied Ships
SS Truant

Fuel storage explosion on CV Kaga
SS Truant launches 6 torpedoes at CV Kaga
Truant diving deep ....
DD Tatsuyuke fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Inazuma fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Kasumi fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Yamagumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamagumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamagumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yamagumo attacking submerged sub ....
DD Yamagumo fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1051
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 9:51:10 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Sept 29 - 30, 1942


SUBS: The Swordfish gave the first indication that the intel from a few days ago might actually pay off when on the night of the 29th it launched at two TFs, including the CA Takao. All missed.

Then on the 30th Truant comes through on the SIGINT tip in a big way! They're having a bit of a party at Station Hypo HQ in Honolulu! Now 6 subs within a two day travel to Sabang will be on the hunt, with more piling on from 4-5 days away. I just had a thought that Nick could stash her at the absolute closest port on one of the islands off the coast of Sumatra. I'll head that way with one US sub as well.

INDIA: At last Nick sends in protection for his troops in the clear and the two sweeps and one bombing run meet heavy LR CAP of Oscars and Zeros. The P-38Es that I have left cut through the Oscars, but not enough so that the bombing run is safe. Loses on the day are about even, but we lose some B-25C and P-40K that I don't want to be without right now. Sweeps are off for tomorrow, then I may bring in more reinforcements, as it's a good place to sweep where he's away from radar coverage.

Bellary had indeed been vacated at least for now. I'll head in with armor and see if this is real, or if it's some kind of trap where he rails in a division or two after we get to the city.

CENT PAC: The mini-KB bugged out and shipping runs resume to the Gilberts. Some stuff is being flown in to Ocean, and I'll risk a convoy soon with some surface protection. Wildcats now have drop tanks as of Oct 1, so I can just barely LR CAP Ocean as well.

SO PAC: Our CV TF moving up through the New Hebrides nearly suffers the same fate as Kaga when the I-10 is sighted by escorts new Luganville. I'll pull this back to avoid search if possible, and also to mis-direct another subs in the area. I'm curous how Nick will react, as the TF has a 4/4 DL, but also he got the report of what ships are here from the sub, and with the CLAA it's obviously a CV TF. He can't know how many though, and so risking anything less than the full KB will be suspect. As long as there is no definitive intel this could be great and give a lot of possibilities to the use of surface ships in the Solomons. I could even risk a dash for Tulagi since I have a full division prepped and some AP/AK ready to go at its base in Suva. In a week I could invade both Lunga and Tulagi.

I'll at least get this idea moving and prepare what I can to see how Nick is moving in the background.

The Cavalry has made it fully onto Rekata Bay, and I think it's best not to strike now, but to build a few forts and wait to see how the next week plays out. The Kaga hit changes a lot and the CV sighting for the Japanese also means he has to really think before sending out BBs and valuable surface ships to the Southern Solomons. I've got three cruiser TFs and the CV TF in the area so could tangle with just about anything as ing as the main KB is in the Indian Ocean. Here we go!

CHINA: The first DA by the troops in the Chikhiang hex is a bit too code to a 1:1 for my comfort, but the Japanese take worse casualties that include 50 vehicles destroyed or disabled. I've got another unit still arriving, so hopefully that will tip the next attack more in our favor. Also, the best part of this one was that it didn't reduce forts. At forts three this is a tough place to attack and bombing is not too effective. With each loss of a fort it'll get a lot easier.

SIGINT: The China HQ is being at Henyang makes me think he doesn't plan to go to the mountains just yet,but will focus on Kweiyang and that route. Not that this will help the defense much, but good to know, anyway.

China Expeditionary Army is located at Hengyang(80,53).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sept 29, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Sabang at 33,70

Japanese Ships
DD Harukaze
DD Fumizuki
DD Kamikaze

Allied Ships
SS Swordfish

SS Swordfish launches 2 torpedoes at DD Harukaze
DD Harukaze fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Kamikaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kamikaze attacking submerged sub ....
DD Kamikaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Kamikaze is out of ASW ammo
DD Kamikaze fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Sabang at 33,70

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
DD Ariake
DD Hatsuharu
DD Takanami
DD Katsutade
DD Tadeshiwa
DD Hayate
DD Oite

Allied Ships
SS Swordfish

SS Swordfish launches 4 torpedoes at CA Takao
DD Katsutade fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Tadeshiwa fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Hayate fails to find sub and abandons search
DD Oite fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chihkiang (78,50)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 34119 troops, 458 guns, 1132 vehicles, Assault Value = 1256

Defending force 40185 troops, 145 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1264

Japanese adjusted assault: 1098

Allied adjusted defense: 1300

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1183 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 199 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Vehicles lost 55 (1 destroyed, 54 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1403 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 121 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
18th Tank Regiment
34th Division
17th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
17th Division
9th Tank Regiment
13th Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
13th Army
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
25th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
23rd Group Army

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Sept 30, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 1st Raiding Regiment, at 55,32 , near Patna

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 32
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 73

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 15
P-40K Warhawk x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-40K Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-25C Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Raiding Regiment, at 55,32 , near Patna

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 32
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 23

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38E Lightning: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Raiding Regiment, at 55,32 , near Patna

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 32
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 14

Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Vanua Lava at 121,149

Japanese Ships
SS I-10, hits 5, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA San Francisco
CA Salt Lake City
CA Pensacola
CLAA San Juan
CLAA San Diego
CLAA Atlanta
DD Meredith
DD Bancroft
DD Lardner
DD Duncan
DD Laffey

SS I-10 is sighted by escort
I-10 diving deep ....
DD Bancroft fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Lardner attacking submerged sub ....
DD Bancroft attacking submerged sub ....
DD Lardner attacking submerged sub ....
SS I-10 eludes ASW attack from DD Lardner
DD Duncan fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Duncan attacking submerged sub ....
DD Duncan fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Air osses for the 30th aren't terrible, but it's been impossible to get a MB pool of anything lately. I have to use them to bomb troops, and this is just going to happen a bit I guess.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/7/2014 10:52:35 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1052
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 9:53:41 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Get used to your bomber pools being empty.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1053
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 10:01:25 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Get used to your bomber pools being empty.


Especially with PDU-off!

I do have some plans to conserve, and I'll be using some planes that in a PDU-on game I wouldn't probably choose. Hopefully the diversity of a PDU-off game works to my advantage there, needing to use everything at least a bit.

One good things is that my pilots pools are burgeoning right now. Combat has been limited, but I'm getting some good stores built up at least.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1054
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 10:34:00 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I don´t think PDU ON or OFF will make much of a difference. In our game ALL my MB and HB pools was empty.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1055
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 11:22:29 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I don´t think PDU ON or OFF will make much of a difference. In our game ALL my MB and HB pools was empty.


I haven't said much about my plans regarding bombing. I've got to keep Nick off balance as I think he's a better Japanese defender than I ever was, and I can't simply bomb every turn, even facing A6M and Ki-43 for much of the game. I have to keep him guessing, keep him shifting and off balance.

My usage will be less than was common for the Allied bombers in our game, and I'll be trying to use the bombers more in smaller packages spread over many targets, not usually multiple days in a row for the same target. There will be exceptions of course, but that is the loose plan. Less usage, hitting around the big bases and not taking them on unless it's absolutely necessary. I tried it once already to see mainly just how bad it would be, and it was pretty bad.

This all could change as I move forward and discover that doesn't work, but that's the general idea now. We'll see. I could be at 0 in the pools for the entire game too!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1056
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 2:25:31 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Get used to your bomber pools being empty.


Especially with PDU-off!

I do have some plans to conserve, and I'll be using some planes that in a PDU-on game I wouldn't probably choose. Hopefully the diversity of a PDU-off game works to my advantage there, needing to use everything at least a bit.

One good things is that my pilots pools are burgeoning right now. Combat has been limited, but I'm getting some good stores built up at least.


Yes, really requires a bit more attention to detail but in the end I think it is more of a nightmare for Nick.

_____________________________

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1057
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 4:52:30 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		Allies do not get a free lunch with PDU-OFF. It hurts the Allies, no question. But I also think it hurts Japan much more. The impact to Japan:
--Oscar remains primary IJA fighter for most of the war
--Sonia remains in service with many units
--Several fighters which are PDU-ON mainstays, like Tojo, George, are much less important, and can only be used by a handful of units
--HELEN is barely used; most MB units are stuck with un-armored Sally
--Production is much, much more fragmented and complicated

I think it's more realistic, but defintely Japan hurt more than Allies

_____________________________


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Post #: 1058
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 5:23:24 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Allies do not get a free lunch with PDU-OFF. It hurts the Allies, no question. But I also think it hurts Japan much more. The impact to Japan:
--Oscar remains primary IJA fighter for most of the war
--Sonia remains in service with many units
--Several fighters which are PDU-ON mainstays, like Tojo, George, are much less important, and can only be used by a handful of units
--HELEN is barely used; most MB units are stuck with un-armored Sally
--Production is much, much more fragmented and complicated

I think it's more realistic, but defintely Japan hurt more than Allies


And it makes a successful first 6 months of war so much more important. with PDU on Japan can still undertake strong operations in all 42 and has a dominant airforce, not throughout the map, but at the point of choice, in 43. with PDU off, once the zero becomes outclassed (so fairly quickly), Japan is stuck, can't do much offensively with his airforce and has already a hard time defending his bases. If he has managed 6 strong first months were he bottled up the central plains, occupied norther Australia and properly garrisonned SOPAC, well he can from then on somewhat compensate with the general slowdown effect on operations that PDU off brings. But if his first 6 months have been lacklustre... summer 42 is not a nice experience already.

Here Greyjoy got unlucky/failed in China, got stuck too far forward in India (and got very unlucky with utterly trashed production) and has left the SRA dangerously exposed already, with a negligent SOPAC... This will make for a painful game.... with PDU on japan can still right a ship in the second half of 42, without.. gulps...

_____________________________

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(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 1059
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 6:04:38 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

And it makes a successful first 6 months of war so much more important. with PDU on Japan can still undertake strong operations in all 42 and has a dominant airforce, not throughout the map, but at the point of choice, in 43. with PDU off, once the zero becomes outclassed (so fairly quickly), Japan is stuck, can't do much offensively with his airforce and has already a hard time defending his bases. If he has managed 6 strong first months were he bottled up the central plains, occupied norther Australia and properly garrisonned SOPAC, well he can from then on somewhat compensate with the general slowdown effect on operations that PDU off brings. But if his first 6 months have been lacklustre... summer 42 is not a nice experience already.

Here Greyjoy got unlucky/failed in China, got stuck too far forward in India (and got very unlucky with utterly trashed production) and has left the SRA dangerously exposed already, with a negligent SOPAC... This will make for a painful game.... with PDU on japan can still right a ship in the second half of 42, without.. gulps...


These are a lot of assumptions above about my opponents force compositions and capabilities that I've not discussed here. I hope they are conjecture and not from his AAR. I will assume they are simply your thoughts on the game, but the part on the SRA is odd for me to read because I've not mentioned it since Java fell and I have no idea what he has there or not. It's certainly not 'exposed' with the KB sitting off of Sumatra!

He has not yet failed in China, for sure. He's had a few tough attacks, but so did I in my several Japanese games, and still made very good progress there. What may hurt him is not the distance travelled but the supply and resources consumed to do it. He's flying a lot of missions, bombarding and attacking a lot there.

He didn't occupy the deep Indian area much and only had to retreat (successfully, I might add, without major loss of troops or equipment) to a more defensible position once the Allies got strong enough to contest. He's far from done there if he wants to stay, and until the Allies can successfully make amphibious landings in Ceylon and behind him in Burma or the Andamans, India continues to be a source of HI, supply and extra oil. He's spent a lot but has also defended well when challenged and at this point is certainly more powerful there still. That's where you'll find the Tojos.

So Pac is open, but if he picks his spots, doesn't go all in and fight for it all, this could be an advantage for Japan. So Pac is what cost Japan too much in the actual war, and bled them of good pilots and men. It costs to fight so far from home, and he's smart in my opinion not to have built it up. It's experience, not negligence.

So I can't say yet what direction this game will go, and I have ultimate respect for my opponent who has shown tenacity, skill and a rare ability to 'read the leaves' and make the right call at the right time in playing Japan before. PDU-off will be hard on his side, but it will also mean that I'll be using FM-1/2 on my CVEs (which nobody ever does!), and P-40s and P-39s in 1944. The P-38s that are restricted remain that way and are lost, so I only get the very limited production runs (which total 104 airframes to date). By the time I'll have an advantage in the air, the Allies always have an advantage in the air, and I'll need it!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to veji1)
Post #: 1060
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 7:40:43 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
What may hurt him is not the distance travelled but the supply and resources consumed to do it. He's flying a lot of missions, bombarding and attacking a lot there.


+1: It is so easy to use too much air power in China, because pretty soon it is the only place Japan can use bombers without suffering hideous losses to flak and growing American/British air power.

PDU Off: Sonia isn't bad in China, Burma as a very short range recon plane. I like it there for that, as it frees up the longer legged recon to watch other areas.

I think where PDU off might hurt Japan the most is in night fighters although this is purely a swag...



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 10/7/2014 8:47:47 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1061
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 8:26:31 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
What may hurt him is not the distance travelled but the supply and resources consumed to do it. He's flying a lot of missions, bombarding and attacking a lot there.


+1: It is so easy to use too much air power in China, because pretty soon it is the only place Japan can use bombers without suffering hideous losses to flak and growing American/British air power.

PDU Off: Sonia isn't bad in China, Burma as a very short range recon plane. I like it there for that, as it frees up the longer legged recon to watch other areas.

I think where PDU off might hurt Japan the most is in night fighters although this is purely a swag...



The Sonia also uses much less supply to do essentially what a 2E does in China; get lots of hits on defenseless troops and bomb airbases to kill supply. I use the Lysander in a similar way now, and the recon is great with them, if short legged.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1062
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/7/2014 11:16:42 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
My usage will be less than was common for the Allied bombers in our game, and I'll be trying to use the bombers more in smaller packages spread over many targets, not usually multiple days in a row for the same target. There will be exceptions of course, but that is the loose plan. Less usage, hitting around the big bases and not taking them on unless it's absolutely necessary. I tried it once already to see mainly just how bad it would be, and it was pretty bad.


I am curious how this strategy will work for you. I am taking notes!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1063
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 8:00:01 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
My usage will be less than was common for the Allied bombers in our game, and I'll be trying to use the bombers more in smaller packages spread over many targets, not usually multiple days in a row for the same target. There will be exceptions of course, but that is the loose plan. Less usage, hitting around the big bases and not taking them on unless it's absolutely necessary. I tried it once already to see mainly just how bad it would be, and it was pretty bad.


I am curious how this strategy will work for you. I am taking notes!


Me too!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1064
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 8:31:58 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Oct 1 - 2, 1942


SUBS: The subs around Rekata Bay have been doing their job, trying to hit the DDs that have been the only traffic coming in to bombard.

Around Sabang there is no sign of Kaga or any of the KB. Vanished. I sent one sub to Siberoet with it's port 1, but no sign of anything there. Maybe he turned SE toward Soerabaja, or maybe she makes a decent speed still and he's beaten me into the straits. The US fleet subs are almost as fast as Kaga to begin with, so I doubt that. I guess she could have beaten us to Sabang though, and disbanded there. That would have been my choice, being on his side. He can then bring in LBA and take his time getting her to Singers.

INDIA: Troops have started moving forward from Benares. I've got about 7 AA units moving with around 2k AV toward Patna. This will hopefully let me know if Nick plans to stay and fight in India or if he's willing to pull back rather than risk holding out. No major air strikes are planned against heavily defended targets, but a strike is heading fro some troops I see moving along the coast road, hopefully in strat mode.

CENT PAC: A few troops flown into Ocean Island. Other big shipments heading to the Gilberts. The IJN CVs are sitting near Bouganville, just hanging out. I'm risking some fast transport to Ocean but nothing major yet.

SO PAC: Tagula Island is nearing a level 1 airfield. Rekata almost has forts 1 built. The same small level bombing is happening daily, but I don't have a cactus air force. Yet.

CHINA: The Japanese try another DA and this time knock a fort off of Chikhiang down to forts 2. That's not good, but they did take much heavier losses. It seems there are plenty of recouped IJA units to transfer in though, and I'm sure he feels the same about the Chinese.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 1, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Chihkiang (78,50)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32351 troops, 458 guns, 1131 vehicles, Assault Value = 1067

Defending force 45246 troops, 188 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1375

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 990

Allied adjusted defense: 2221

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1274 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 201 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 13 (2 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Vehicles lost 77 (6 destroyed, 71 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1260 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 66 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Assaulting units:
17th Division
12th Tank Regiment
17th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
34th Division
13th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
23rd Tank Regiment
18th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
13th Army
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
25th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
23rd Group Army

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Nothing. Weird.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/8/2014 9:33:22 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1065
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 1:34:09 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
What may hurt him is not the distance travelled but the supply and resources consumed to do it. He's flying a lot of missions, bombarding and attacking a lot there.


+1: It is so easy to use too much air power in China, because pretty soon it is the only place Japan can use bombers without suffering hideous losses to flak and growing American/British air power.

PDU Off: Sonia isn't bad in China, Burma as a very short range recon plane. I like it there for that, as it frees up the longer legged recon to watch other areas.

I think where PDU off might hurt Japan the most is in night fighters although this is purely a swag...




A lot of Japanese players bomb "just for the hell of it" Bombing missions burn supply and supply is important to Japan. I wonder if bombing the snot out of Chinese units in strong terrain is worth the long term cost?

The Allies on the other hand can pretty much bomb away as long as their pools are healthy.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1066
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 7:10:32 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
What may hurt him is not the distance travelled but the supply and resources consumed to do it. He's flying a lot of missions, bombarding and attacking a lot there.


+1: It is so easy to use too much air power in China, because pretty soon it is the only place Japan can use bombers without suffering hideous losses to flak and growing American/British air power.

PDU Off: Sonia isn't bad in China, Burma as a very short range recon plane. I like it there for that, as it frees up the longer legged recon to watch other areas.

I think where PDU off might hurt Japan the most is in night fighters although this is purely a swag...



A lot of Japanese players bomb "just for the hell of it" Bombing missions burn supply and supply is important to Japan. I wonder if bombing the snot out of Chinese units in strong terrain is worth the long term cost?

The Allies on the other hand can pretty much bomb away as long as their pools are healthy.



I did a lot of bombing in my first Japanese game in China, and the cost is real. I decided to look it up and do some calculations. This is based on the most recent turn, and just the bombing in China. The figures below just add onto the main costs of maintaining an attacking army in China, when even a resting division costs 1,500 supply/month to keep up.

The supply costs are here as stated by Alfred in Logistics 101:

(D.2) Cost of air missions

Each sortie flown consumes supply. Lack the requisite supply, the air mission is not flown. The actual supply cost depends on the type of mission flown and the type of plane as follows:

• Offensive Mission flown by a Level Bomber, the cost is (Maximum Load/1000) per plane
• Offensive Mission flown by a Dive Bomb or Torpedo, the cost is 1 supply point per plane
• Other missions such as Search and CAP expend only 1/3 of a supply point per plane

Hence a 12 plane Liberator squadron sent to bomb an airfield will consume 96 supply points. A USMC torpedo squadron of 18 Avengers will consume 18 supply points.

These are the loads for the most common Japanese bombers used in China:

Sally/Helen - 2205
Betty/Nell - 1764
Lily - 881
Sonia - 450
Ann - 992
Ida - 552

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 04, 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A6M3 Zero x 32/3 = 10.66

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 39 x 1.764 = 68.796
G4M1 Betty x 11 x 1.764 = 19.40

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 18x 1.764 = 31.752

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 3/3 = 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 22 x 2.205 = 48.532
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 72 x 2.205 = 158.76
Ki-49-Ia Helen x 53 x 2.205 = 116.865

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 11/3 = 3.667
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 29 x 0.881 = 25.549

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 25 x 0.881 = 22.025

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 27 x 1.764 = 47.628

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 18 x 1.764 = 31.752

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 14/3 = 4.667

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 27 x 2.205 = 59.535

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL SUPPLY COST FOR SWEEPS & BOMBING - 10/04/42 = 650.588

x30 = 19,517.64



The replacements costs are another thing altogether. Once combat gets heavier this really starts to impact forward areas for Japan, and it's one of the main things that drains supply, forces more to be shipped out, and has a lot of impact. I seem to remember that there is a cost for repair of damaged planes too, but can't seem to find that. Does anyone know for sure?

(D.4) Cost of replacements

The basic supply cost for a LCU replacement device is the load cost.

For air units, the supply cost for each replacement airframe depends on the type of airframe:

• 12 supply points for fighter, fighter bomber
• 15 supply points for dive bomber, torpedo bomber, float plane, float fighter
• 18 supply points for night fighter, recon
• 30 supply points for heavy bomber, medium bomber, light bomber, attack bomber, transport, patrol


Based on the most airframes claimed lost so far, here are some calculations of cost for replacements (but this doesn't include of course air groups upgrades costs):

Ki-21-IIa - 267 x 30 = 8,010

G4M1 - 243 x 30 = 7,290

Ki-43-Ic - 168 x 12 = 2,016

D3A1 - 162 x 15 = 2,430

Ki-15-II - 156 x 18 = 2,808

Ki-48b - 148 x 30 = 4,440

H6K4 - 126 x 30 = 3,780

B5N2 - 110 x 15 = 1,650

Ki-46-II - 106 x 30 = 3,180

Ki-21-Ic - 91 x 30 = 2,730



< Message edited by obvert -- 10/8/2014 8:13:50 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 1067
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 7:37:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		For most Allied players and even a lot of Japanese players the figure of ~600 supply/day for bombing might not seem like much.

I then looked at what Japanese held China actually produces. It's not a lot. Only 1,466 supply/day currently.

If I'm conservative and I say he has 30 division equivalents in China now, at 50 supply/day, that's already 1,500 supply.

So the combat and the bombing should be running him a healthy deficit that has to be shipped in.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1068
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 7:54:19 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

For most Allied players and even a lot of Japanese players the figure of ~600 supply/day for bombing might not seem like much.

I then looked at what Japanese held China actually produces. It's not a lot. Only 1,466 supply/day currently.

If I'm conservative and I say he has 30 division equivalents in China now, at 50 supply/day, that's already 1,500 supply.

So the combat and the bombing should be running him a healthy deficit that has to be shipped in.


But in what way is it a problem to ship in this amount of supply. It is a bit of a drain but in no way critical...

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1069
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 10:07:07 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

• Other missions such as Search and CAP expend only 1/3 of a supply point per plane



Nice comprehensive post.

I like the bit above that I highlighted making the supply cost equal to run an Emily as Judy at normal ranges.

It is has been a while since I looked at Captain Crufts Hive AAR, but he was very quiet in China, well, everywhere really and I think he had banked incredible amount of supplies and resources (fuel, oil) for the end game...then the game ended before the end.

I think the cost of taking China in supplies is very large, but then again you get rewarded pretty well too in a much stronger strategic map. Especially if you take it all.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1070
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/8/2014 11:34:46 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		The supply usage is not a fraction. It is rounded up. 18 Bettys = 36 supply, not 31.something...

This is actually why I have expanded some industry in China from the very early days of the war. Light industry in particular. Yes, it takes 3 years to "make it back", but, it lessens the supply I need to ship in from Japan by several hundred per day. That's significant, and we all know that China will still be in Japanese hands come summer/fall of 1944 (the breakeven point).

It's only 550 days to break even if you expand HI.

I did a mix of both.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 1071
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 1:52:52 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

For most Allied players and even a lot of Japanese players the figure of ~600 supply/day for bombing might not seem like much.

I then looked at what Japanese held China actually produces. It's not a lot. Only 1,466 supply/day currently.

If I'm conservative and I say he has 30 division equivalents in China now, at 50 supply/day, that's already 1,500 supply.

So the combat and the bombing should be running him a healthy deficit that has to be shipped in.


But in what way is it a problem to ship in this amount of supply. It is a bit of a drain but in no way critical...


Not in 42, but later it can be critical. It's just one of many drains on the Japanese economy, and the real costs aren't actually calculable (by me at least) since they include the daily bombardments and dozens of DA/SAs by several large armies. At some points when I was doing this I had 2 TFs on CS convoys to Shanghai and another 2 going to Hong Kong delivering 25-30k each trip.

Wiping China and getting the industry of the central plains can really pay this back, but I'm hoping he won't get that so that it remains a big deficit.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 1072
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 1:55:55 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The supply usage is not a fraction. It is rounded up. 18 Bettys = 36 supply, not 31.something...

This is actually why I have expanded some industry in China from the very early days of the war. Light industry in particular. Yes, it takes 3 years to "make it back", but, it lessens the supply I need to ship in from Japan by several hundred per day. That's significant, and we all know that China will still be in Japanese hands come summer/fall of 1944 (the breakeven point).

It's only 550 days to break even if you expand HI.

I did a mix of both.


Increasing some LI makes sense. Definitely in Northern China, like Peiping. Out of the range of the B-29s once they get going in India/Burma.

The HI not as much since China only produces a small amount of fuel, so that may have to be shipped in.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1073
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 3:00:24 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The supply usage is not a fraction. It is rounded up. 18 Bettys = 36 supply, not 31.something...

This is actually why I have expanded some industry in China from the very early days of the war. Light industry in particular. Yes, it takes 3 years to "make it back", but, it lessens the supply I need to ship in from Japan by several hundred per day. That's significant, and we all know that China will still be in Japanese hands come summer/fall of 1944 (the breakeven point).

It's only 550 days to break even if you expand HI.

I did a mix of both.


Increasing some LI makes sense. Definitely in Northern China, like Peiping. Out of the range of the B-29s once they get going in India/Burma.

The HI not as much since China only produces a small amount of fuel, so that may have to be shipped in.


That isn't a problem since fuel gets shipped to, or past, China anyway. And the engine doesn't care where HI is made, so China is as good a spot as any.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1074
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 6:11:54 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The supply usage is not a fraction. It is rounded up. 18 Bettys = 36 supply, not 31.something...

This is actually why I have expanded some industry in China from the very early days of the war. Light industry in particular. Yes, it takes 3 years to "make it back", but, it lessens the supply I need to ship in from Japan by several hundred per day. That's significant, and we all know that China will still be in Japanese hands come summer/fall of 1944 (the breakeven point).

It's only 550 days to break even if you expand HI.

I did a mix of both.


Increasing some LI makes sense. Definitely in Northern China, like Peiping. Out of the range of the B-29s once they get going in India/Burma.

The HI not as much since China only produces a small amount of fuel, so that may have to be shipped in.


That isn't a problem since fuel gets shipped to, or past, China anyway. And the engine doesn't care where HI is made, so China is as good a spot as any.


One thing I found in my one long game, (which is a very small sample size but I've seen this possibility in other AARed games), was that in the DEI the extra HI factories might in some locations keep producing after the oil/fuel lanes are cut off to the North. I had Singers making 50 HI and a few places in Java that just kept producing as they were never bombed out.

Very different if the DEI is taken, and every opponent will play it differently. I just like that as an option so I'll always build any extra HI down there from now on.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 1075
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 2:31:24 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Oct 3 - 4, 1942


SUBS: Still no sign of anything near Sabang. The Kaga has vanished, but there is no rise in VPs to show it was sunk. I think she's escaped.

INDIA: A massive move from Benares and a smaller one from Gorakhpur are not met with any direct response yet, but troops of some kind are poised to move out of Patna. If this is a retreat then I will have achieved the aim of the op before even starting. I'll keep moving forward and planning some para-drops further up.

On the other side Bellary is still vacant and Manglalore is repaired, ready for aircraft. I'm getting the sense, just a feeling, Nick might just be retreating from India. Maybe the hit on Kaga had something to do with it?

Along the coast we bomb shipping engineer Coy that's going somewhere.

CENT PAC: The forays to Ocean go through with no response. Once I can get some PBYs operating there I'll feel much better about the entire area and what is potentially on the horizon.

SO PAC: Nick begins bombing smaller bases with a lot of IJN bombers. Not much damage done, though. Rekata Bay gets a 4 plane Aussie Cat group and now I'l be able to see just that bit farther.

CHINA: The bombing around Kweiyang intensifies and then there is a DA on the 4th. It gets a 1:2 but the Japanese take almost no damage while the Chinese are struggling to hold on. I can't really take much more of the bombing and hope to hold anywhere in x2 territory, so I've made a choice to defend the air in China. Supply has been going up lately, and there are three centers now that can operate fighters. Changsha, Kunming and of course Chungking. I've flown in four groups to LR CAP the troops near Kweiyang for the 5th.

The moves currently happening in India could begin to open up a path to the mountains, and if this happens I'll finally be able to add supply over the hump. That would make the air force more sustainable, but for now I'll see how it goes.

My Lysander unit was finally caught by zeros and destroyed mercilessly near Kweiyang. My own fault as I didn't turn them off after getting some recon.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Oct 4, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 73,49 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 9669 troops, 200 guns, 734 vehicles, Assault Value = 506

Defending force 41091 troops, 285 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1042

Japanese adjusted assault: 256

Allied adjusted defense: 667

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
917 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 82 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 17 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

Assaulting units:
7th Ind.Tank Brigade
4th Tank Regiment
Guards Tank Division
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
34th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
21st Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




One good thing about the recent bombardment and small actions is that a lot of ship crews are now gaining experience much more quickly. The Australia is looking pretty good, even at night.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 10/9/2014 3:32:56 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1076
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 4:47:50 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Watch it when retreating. You won´t believe how fast overstacking can burn ALL the supply in the hex. It can very quickly snowball out of control and turn into an avalanche of retreats. Once that happens there is no recovery.


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1077
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 5:51:09 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Watch it when retreating. You won´t believe how fast overstacking can burn ALL the supply in the hex. It can very quickly snowball out of control and turn into an avalanche of retreats. Once that happens there is no recovery.



Do you mean in China?

I'm not really retreating anywhere, yet. The only places I've had to finally move I managed to get out by my own design rather than being forced to go. Right now the retreats that could occur wouldn't really hurt as the stack one hex outside of Kweiyang is right at the 50k SL max but the Kweiyang hex is at around 30k, and it's being reduced to around 15k. So if he pushed me back it wouldn't be overstacked by much and the roads are good so it could be fixed in two days. At Chikhiang it's much the same, and the good roads make it a short lived situation.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1078
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 5:56:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Watch it when retreating. You won´t believe how fast overstacking can burn ALL the supply in the hex. It can very quickly snowball out of control and turn into an avalanche of retreats. Once that happens there is no recovery.



Do you mean in China?

I'm not really retreating anywhere, yet. The only places I've had to finally move I managed to get out by my own design rather than being forced to go. Right now the retreats that could occur wouldn't really hurt as the stack one hex outside of Kweiyang is right at the 50k SL max but the Kweiyang hex is at around 30k, and it's being reduced to around 15k. So if he pushed me back it wouldn't be overstacked by much and the roads are good so it could be fixed in two days. At Chikhiang it's much the same, and the good roads make it a short lived situation.


Yes, in China. Looking at the CR you will retreat from 73,49 shortly whether you want to or not. Sounds like you got it covered though.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1079
RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 10/9/2014 6:00:05 PM   
leehunt27@bloomberg.net


Posts: 533
Joined: 9/6/2004
Status: offline 		Quick note on the bombing conversation: I've noticed in many games players bomb far too much, and then even if successful, don't take operational advantage. What good is it for a Japanese player to use up supply, Ops losses bombing a Chinese unit to 90 Disruption and 70 fatigue if he doesn't storm the hex and then move forward to take a key city?
I'd say in one game I played about 50% of the Allied player's bombings were really just nuisance, though they cost him a lot of Ops losses. They may have weakened an island garrison by 5% or something, but really did nothing substantial in the long run.

_____________________________

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 1080
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