RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

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RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/10/2014 9:58:24 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Miri

Has this oil not been repaired or is this just my residual and incomplete info about the base?

Hasn't been repaired. As far as I know, this is always accurate after a few days...

That's what i thought. What do you mean 'after a few days?'

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1291

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 12:11:51 AM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Miri

Has this oil not been repaired or is this just my residual and incomplete info about the base?

Miri starts with Oil at 150(150), it takes time and a lot of supply to repair the "damaged" 150. Same at Brunei with lower figures - something like 30(30).
I think they were trying to show wells started by Royal Dutch Shell Co. , but not yet producing.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1292

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 2:01:21 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Miri

Has this oil not been repaired or is this just my residual and incomplete info about the base?

Hasn't been repaired. As far as I know, this is always accurate after a few days...

That's what i thought. What do you mean 'after a few days?'

I've noticed from bombing Magwe that I'll get, say, 7 Oil hits. The next day I check, and the Oil at Magwe is reported as only 1-2 lower than it was before. Over the course of a few days, even without more raids (and no fires, as Magwe has no Manpower and I didn't bomb Manpower in any case...), the number of functional Oil centers will drop a bit more. So I always keep an eye on it for a few days, and whatever number it's at after a while is what stays.

It's also how I now that MM hasn't repaired damaged Resources at Sapporo from my raid, and how I know that I didn't burn down any Oil centers there (it's back to displaying 6, which means 5).

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1293

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 2:14:51 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Curious why he hasn't fixed all of that oil in a year? It should be much farther along than that if he was trying. Is there a dearth of supply with all of the China and India ops going? Is oil less important than those things?

Without the Lanchow oil to date, and with only an extra bit from the Ledo oil, he still wouldn't really want to forego repairing any available oil source. The 135 points here still to be fixed is a lot of oil.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1294

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 2:30:50 PM

Andav

Posts: 474
Joined: 5/8/2007
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Hi Overt,

I do not repair the oil at Miri mainly because of the small port size. There are enough other places with larger ports to haul fuel/oil from that I have not repaired Miri. The supply cost to repair is pretty high. I do expand the port and setup enough shipping to keep the levels down. I have no idea if this is the smartest thing to do but it is the course I have taken.

Thanks for the AAR. I visit daily and enjoy both sides so I don't make comments.

Walter

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1295

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 3:52:17 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Curious why he hasn't fixed all of that oil in a year? It should be much farther along than that if he was trying. Is there a dearth of supply with all of the China and India ops going? Is oil less important than those things?

Without the Lanchow oil to date, and with only an extra bit from the Ledo oil, he still wouldn't really want to forego repairing any available oil source. The 135 points here still to be fixed is a lot of oil.

I think he's making a mistake in not repairing the oil. Granted, it's a big investment of supply, but at the same time, what other sources of oil does Japan have access to that are so centrally located and sheilded from Allied attack (provided you garrison it to prevent sub raids!)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Miri

Has this oil not been repaired or is this just my residual and incomplete info about the base?

Hasn't been repaired. As far as I know, this is always accurate after a few days...

That's what i thought. What do you mean 'after a few days?'

It's also how I now that MM hasn't repaired damaged Resources at Sapporo from my raid, and how I know that I didn't burn down any Oil centers there (it's back to displaying 6, which means 5).

Of course I haven't - the stuff from China more than covers the deficit! I've enough resources in the Home Islands to last me till '45!

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1296

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 4:33:54 PM

Bullwinkle58

Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Of course I haven't - the stuff from China more than covers the deficit! I've enough resources in the Home Islands to last me till '45!

This AAR is starting to look like the Swiss Embassy . . .

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1297

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 4:41:32 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Curious why he hasn't fixed all of that oil in a year? It should be much farther along than that if he was trying. Is there a dearth of supply with all of the China and India ops going? Is oil less important than those things?

Without the Lanchow oil to date, and with only an extra bit from the Ledo oil, he still wouldn't really want to forego repairing any available oil source. The 135 points here still to be fixed is a lot of oil.

I think he's making a mistake in not repairing the oil. Granted, it's a big investment of supply, but at the same time, what other sources of oil does Japan have access to that are so centrally located and sheilded from Allied attack (provided you garrison it to prevent sub raids!)?

It's too bad I can't burn it down with my Marines.

Look at it this way. Each point of Oil is essentially 1 point of Supply. Use the port at Brunei, also - Oil/Fuel will flow there, it's only 1 hex distant even if there is no road. So you should spend that 150,000 supply at Miri. After 150 days, you're fully repaired, so sometime around mid-May, 1942. It takes 1000 days to "break even" on this supply expenditure, per point of Oil repaired. So the first point repaired breaks even on day 1001, and the last point on day 1151. You don't actually break even on the final point of repair until January, 1945, but you break even on the first point 150 days before that, and every point after that is extra. You may not be able to access Miri until this break even point, but you'll get close enough that it's worth the gamble, IMO.

I think there may be an argument for only partially repairing it, but it's not what I do.

Miri's not a bad little airbase either, if your opponent comes up through the DEI.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Of course I haven't - the stuff from China more than covers the deficit! I've enough resources in the Home Islands to last me till '45!

I just check periodically to confirm you aren't doing anything stupid

.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 11/11/2014 5:42:20 PM >

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1298

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 5:35:12 PM

BBfanboy

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From: Winnipeg, MB
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Further to you comment Lokasenna, if HI in Japan/Indochina/Manila is having trouble producing because of oil/fuel, the extra point of oil produced and shipped to where needed instantly provides a point of supply production and HI production (assuming resources are adequate). This makes the payoff much sooner than the total payback, IMO.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1299

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 5:37:47 PM

Lowpe

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My rule of thumb is repair oil if you can control it for six months or more. If you can't protect it, don't fix it.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1300

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 5:38:30 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

Hi Overt,

I do not repair the oil at Miri mainly because of the small port size. There are enough other places with larger ports to haul fuel/oil from that I have not repaired Miri. The supply cost to repair is pretty high. I do expand the port and setup enough shipping to keep the levels down. I have no idea if this is the smartest thing to do but it is the course I have taken.

Thanks for the AAR. I visit daily and enjoy both sides so I don't make comments.

Walter

Thanks for popping in! I'd always assumed any oil is good oil for the Japanese. I've always repaired whoever I could and shipped it out with little TK. It seems to work well enough, and it will flow to Brunei as well.

I'm trying to 'read' his economic status as best I can, and little things like this might give clues to what is happening, what the priorities are over there, and what I might expect for the next few years.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Andav)

Post #: 1301

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 5:41:30 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Curious why he hasn't fixed all of that oil in a year? It should be much farther along than that if he was trying. Is there a dearth of supply with all of the China and India ops going? Is oil less important than those things?

Without the Lanchow oil to date, and with only an extra bit from the Ledo oil, he still wouldn't really want to forego repairing any available oil source. The 135 points here still to be fixed is a lot of oil.

I think he's making a mistake in not repairing the oil. Granted, it's a big investment of supply, but at the same time, what other sources of oil does Japan have access to that are so centrally located and sheilded from Allied attack (provided you garrison it to prevent sub raids!)?

This is close to my thinking. I've adopted an HRs to mitigate the fairly easy destruction of oil centers, which means I can only bomb them with 4E using manpower, so my choices will be more limited for a while.

With CVs though I can hit anything at any time!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 1302

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 5:43:52 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Further to you comment Lokasenna, if HI in Japan/Indochina/Manila is having trouble producing because of oil/fuel, the extra point of oil produced and shipped to where needed instantly provides a point of supply production and HI production (assuming resources are adequate). This makes the payoff much sooner than the total payback, IMO.

No supply is created from refineries in DBB as I understand it. So this makes it a tougher choice, but oil is oil. When Japan doesn't have it they can't make supply with HI either.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1303

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 6:04:52 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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Dec 11 - 13, 1942

SUBS: The IJN got a glimpse of the air combat TF with 4 CV and 2 fast BB in it near Masirah!! This may not be all bad since there were no torpedo strikes, as it has to keep him honest in the IO knowing the US CVs are there.

INDIA: In India the main Allied army near Patna/Ranchi moved down the gray road toward Ranchi and tried a quick, over-stacked DA. Not sure if it's the poor Allied leadership or the overstocking this time, but the attack got a 1:1 in spite of a massive majority in troops, and took much heavier losses. Still, this caused a major reorganization of the Japanese side, and hopefully made sure not much will be able to reinforce Madras. I'll stay and dig in, keep bombarding when I can, although the first results are not good. I need to get the experience on these units up, and any supply the Japanese have to sue is good.

CENT PAC: Air strikes against Nauru still meet difficult opposition, seem to always find poor weather, and get very few hits on the fields. I'll keep it up, but naval bombardments seem the most effective means to wear this base down.

CHINA: The kind of tank armies operating in China right now are devastating. Won't be able to hod long in x2, but hopefully x3 will offer some help.

OZ: Still walking.

SIGINT: It's looking like he'll defend a bit farther back, on the Rabaul line across to Umboi, in So Pac. No other reason to have an RF (AT gun) unit here.

10th RF Gun Battalion is located at Umboi Island(100,125).
51st Construction Battalion is located at Umboi Island(100,125).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 11, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Masirah at 26,8

Japanese Ships
SS I-24, hits 4

Allied Ships
DD Nicholas
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina
DD Buchanan
DD Mahan
DD Caldwell
DD Farenholt

SS I-24 launches 2 torpedoes at DD Nicholas
DD Mahan fails to find sub and abandons search

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 26th Indian Division, at 52,31 , near Ranchi

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 93 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 45
G4M1 Betty x 45
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 42

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied ground losses:
30 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
43 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 150th RAC Regiment, at 52,31 , near Ranchi

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 90
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 58
Ki-48-IIa Lily x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 4 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 destroyed by flak
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 1 damaged
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied ground losses:
48 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
31 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
28 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 52,31 (near Ranchi)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 97282 troops, 1378 guns, 1917 vehicles, Assault Value = 3266

Defending force 31941 troops, 372 guns, 203 vehicles, Assault Value = 794

Allied adjusted assault: 1324

Japanese adjusted defense: 1131

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2288 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 109 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 50 (2 destroyed, 48 disabled)
Vehicles lost 29 (2 destroyed, 27 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2510 casualties reported
Squads: 115 destroyed, 259 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 46 disabled
Engineers: 21 destroyed, 35 disabled
Guns lost 80 (18 destroyed, 62 disabled)
Vehicles lost 84 (32 destroyed, 52 disabled)

Assaulting units:
2nd British Division
Kowloon Brigade
84th Indian Brigade
637th Tank Destroyer Battalion
255th Armoured Brigade
50th Tank Brigade
26th Indian Brigade
23rd Indian Division
762nd Tank Battalion
6th Australian Division
150th RAC Regiment
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
70th British Division
7th Australian Division
26th Indian Division
1st USMC AA Battalion
2/9th Field Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
93rd Coast AA Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
69th Coast AA Regiment
260th Coast AA Regiment
251st Coast AA Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
1st Indian Light AA Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
36th Division
8th Division
2nd Air Defense AA Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
22nd Ind.AA Gun Co
23rd Fld AA Gun Co
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Army
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 12, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 52,31 (near Ranchi)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1602 troops, 146 guns, 134 vehicles, Assault Value = 2889

Defending force 44624 troops, 506 guns, 245 vehicles, Assault Value = 1075

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 14 (11 destroyed, 3 disabled)
Vehicles lost 7 (6 destroyed, 1 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 13, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 74,48 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7826 troops, 156 guns, 408 vehicles, Assault Value = 905

Defending force 43109 troops, 283 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1103

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Assaulting units:
12th Tank Regiment
19th Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
9th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
1st Tank Division
18th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
24th Chinese Corps
14th Chinese Corps
52nd Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 52,31 (near Ranchi)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1566 troops, 139 guns, 131 vehicles, Assault Value = 1805

Defending force 44791 troops, 507 guns, 245 vehicles, Assault Value = 1096

Japanese ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 12 (5 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Assaulting units:
23rd Indian Division
762nd Tank Battalion
150th RAC Regiment
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
7th Australian Division
255th Armoured Brigade
6th Australian Division
70th British Division
2/9th Field Regiment
251st Coast AA Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
69th Coast AA Regiment
6th Medium Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
260th Coast AA Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
1st USMC AA Battalion
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
36th Division
8th Division
48th Division
2nd Mortar Battalion
22nd Ind.AA Gun Co
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
23rd Fld AA Gun Co
2nd Air Defense AA Regiment
2nd Army
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel better now about the decision to back off near Nauru. This could have been a tough battle, most likely resulting in a good few CVE lost at this point.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/11/2014 7:44:41 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1304

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 6:35:16 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Going back to my comment, my numbers are off by a factor of 10. In the "good" direction - I was counting each Oil center as producing 1 point per day, of which .1 gets turned into Supply via refineries and .9 via HI production... that's not the case. It's 10 points per day, so in DBB each Oil center = 9 points of potential supply. Per day. I knew something was off when I was doing those numbers earlier.

So divide that 1150 by 9 and you get 128 days for DBB "break even" on the final point. That's way less. Really, it's somewhere around 1075.5 divided by 9 (averaging time for first day and time for last day, as your first points repaired will be producing a surplus) which is 120 days. So even now, he could repair and still get a benefit from doing so, beyond simply breaking even on the supply expenditure.

In stock, it's only 100 days per point to break even on the supplies to repair it. That's an even better "deal" than expanding HI (550 days) or repairing damaged HI (500) on a per point basis.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 11/11/2014 7:36:09 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1305

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 7:27:10 PM

Andav

Posts: 474
Joined: 5/8/2007
Status: offline

I figured I was probably wrong about Miri. We are into April 1944 in my DBB game and I have not yet run out of places to pull fuel or oil so far. The Home Islands have not been dry of fuel either. Oil has run out in the home islands fairly regularly over the last several months. At the rate witpqs is sinking tankers, I will run out of those first probably.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 1306

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 7:56:16 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Curious why he hasn't fixed all of that oil in a year? It should be much farther along than that if he was trying. Is there a dearth of supply with all of the China and India ops going? Is oil less important than those things?

Without the Lanchow oil to date, and with only an extra bit from the Ledo oil, he still wouldn't really want to forego repairing any available oil source. The 135 points here still to be fixed is a lot of oil.

I think he's making a mistake in not repairing the oil. Granted, it's a big investment of supply, but at the same time, what other sources of oil does Japan have access to that are so centrally located and sheilded from Allied attack (provided you garrison it to prevent sub raids!)?

This is close to my thinking. I've adopted an HRs to mitigate the fairly easy destruction of oil centers, which means I can only bomb them with 4E using manpower, so my choices will be more limited for a while.

With CVs though I can hit anything at any time!

Destroying oil with raids on manpower might not be the best way to go if you're wanting to make destroying the oil harder. Lokasenna was able to knock about 200 points off the refinery and 140 points off the oil when he bombed Palembang's manpower centers with the B-17s from the Philippines and the Dutch and British trash flying very low - the vast bulk of the damage was caused by a firestorm that burned for a few days afterwards.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1307

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 9:03:47 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Further to you comment Lokasenna, if HI in Japan/Indochina/Manila is having trouble producing because of oil/fuel, the extra point of oil produced and shipped to where needed instantly provides a point of supply production and HI production (assuming resources are adequate). This makes the payoff much sooner than the total payback, IMO.

No supply is created from refineries in DBB as I understand it. So this makes it a tougher choice, but oil is oil. When Japan doesn't have it they can't make supply with HI either.

Not saying the refinery produces supply, but HI does, so you start to get payback on the investment in oil and you get HI points to make stuff.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1308

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 9:16:00 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Further to you comment Lokasenna, if HI in Japan/Indochina/Manila is having trouble producing because of oil/fuel, the extra point of oil produced and shipped to where needed instantly provides a point of supply production and HI production (assuming resources are adequate). This makes the payoff much sooner than the total payback, IMO.

No supply is created from refineries in DBB as I understand it. So this makes it a tougher choice, but oil is oil. When Japan doesn't have it they can't make supply with HI either.

Not saying the refinery produces supply, but HI does, so you start to get payback on the investment in oil and you get HI points to make stuff.

Sorry. Misread. Yes, I see we're on the same page.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1309

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 9:23:28 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Curious why he hasn't fixed all of that oil in a year? It should be much farther along than that if he was trying. Is there a dearth of supply with all of the China and India ops going? Is oil less important than those things?

Without the Lanchow oil to date, and with only an extra bit from the Ledo oil, he still wouldn't really want to forego repairing any available oil source. The 135 points here still to be fixed is a lot of oil.

I think he's making a mistake in not repairing the oil. Granted, it's a big investment of supply, but at the same time, what other sources of oil does Japan have access to that are so centrally located and sheilded from Allied attack (provided you garrison it to prevent sub raids!)?

This is close to my thinking. I've adopted an HRs to mitigate the fairly easy destruction of oil centers, which means I can only bomb them with 4E using manpower, so my choices will be more limited for a while.

With CVs though I can hit anything at any time!

Destroying oil with raids on manpower might not be the best way to go if you're wanting to make destroying the oil harder. Lokasenna was able to knock about 200 points off the refinery and 140 points off the oil when he bombed Palembang's manpower centers with the B-17s from the Philippines and the Dutch and British trash flying very low - the vast bulk of the damage was caused by a firestorm that burned for a few days afterwards.

I've been on the end of some very big manpower raids wiping out industry, oil and airframe factories. It works well for sure.

Some bases with oil though don't have manpower. Magwe, for instance, is off the plate for LBA. If I can get there with CVs though, I can do what I like. Most oil centers are near the coasts (Ledo and Lanchow being medium sized exceptions) and so I could eventually take those out. Once CVs can get there the transport of oil/fuel should be in doubt though as well.

The big ones on Sumatra and Java though will be in range earlier.

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Post #: 1310

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/11/2014 9:48:59 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

knowing the US CVs are there

to paraphrase Jango Unchained: "You had the KB's interest......Now you have it's attention" If it ain't there now it certainly will be soon. plan accordingly

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Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1311

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 8:00:04 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

knowing the US CVs are there

to paraphrase Jango Unchained: "You had the KB's interest......Now you have it's attention" If it ain't there now it certainly will be soon. plan accordingly

Yes.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1312

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 8:03:36 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
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AA guns

So. If the 90mm M1A1 stops production in 5/43, what replaces it?

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 1313

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 1:42:49 PM

Alfred

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The 90mmM2DP.

Alfred

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1314

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 1:46:52 PM

leehunt27@bloomberg.net

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The Japanese player should definitely repair Miri's oil center- it doesn't take much for other oil centers to be threatened and you end up needing every barrel you got towards the end.

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John 21:25

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Post #: 1315

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 5:26:19 PM

obvert

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Joined: 1/17/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The 90mmM2DP.

Alfred

Thanks Alfred. I suspected this would be it but wanted to make sure.

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1316

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 6:06:22 PM

obvert

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Dec 14 - 17, 1942

SUBS: Lots of IJN sub activity around Nauru and the I-3 is hanging out on the SE OZ coast. no hits either way.

INDIA: On the 17th, after digging in near Ranchi, the Allied army finally puts together a good arty bombardment.

CENT PAC: Tried for some tranports at Kusaie with 2 DDs sprinting from the Gilberts, but they moved out to one hex away, we didn't react, and the next day somehow they eluded us again. Oh, well. The second duo of DDs that were aiming to go up to Roi Namur after another TF were LR CAPed and attracted 9 Bettys which got flamed. It'll be tough to keep his planes on LR with no escort as we get closer.

The flak and weather are keeping our bombers from doing much of anything at Nauru. Over three days the two B-25 groups got a total of 5 runway hits and 3 on the airbase hits. The B-17s are only slightly better. This is certainly not the kind of effectiveness I found against my bases in a stock game!!

Four DMS managed to clear 49 mines in the face of CD gun fire from the base forces.

SO PAC: Tulagi is a level 3 port and field now, and Lunga has jumped to a level 4 field. I'll start feeling out next moves here with recon and some light bombing.

CHINA: The Japanese air forces pound troops near Kweiyang. Yuck.

OZ: Seeing some Japanese recon on Ceduna, but not sure if he's noticed the troops walking to Kalgoorie yet. No action taken at least.

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AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 15, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Jaluit at 135,122

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 9

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed

No Allied losses

CAP engaged:
VMF-122 with F4F-4 Wildcat (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 8000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 16, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 180 encounters mine field at Nauru Island (127,128) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

25 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DMS Hovey
DMS Wasmuth, Shell hits 1
DMS Chandler
DMS Zane, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

21st Special Base Force firing at DMS Hovey
DMS Hovey firing at 21st Special Base Force
DMS Wasmuth firing at 21st Special Base Force
21st Special Base Force firing at DMS Wasmuth
21st Special Base Force firing at DMS Chandler
DMS Chandler firing at 21st Special Base Force
DMS Zane firing at 21st Special Base Force
21st Special Base Force firing at DMS Zane

49 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Nauru Island at 127,128 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

6 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CA Australia
CL Perth
CL Achilles
DD Morris
DD Walke
DD O'Brien
DD Lansdowne

Japanese ground losses:
146 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 17
Port hits 8

Seagull V acting as spotter for CA Australia
CA Australia firing at 21st Special Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 17, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Nauru Island at 127,128

Allied Ships
CL Trenton
CL Detroit
DD Shaw
DD Lang
DD Wilson

Japanese ground losses:
109 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 6
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 15

CL Trenton firing at Nauru Island
OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for CL Detroit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 52,31 (near Ranchi)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 56867 troops, 935 guns, 1036 vehicles, Assault Value = 1860

Defending force 50745 troops, 582 guns, 322 vehicles, Assault Value = 1391

Japanese ground losses:
317 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 11 (4 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
16 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
7th Australian Division
255th Armoured Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
6th Australian Division
762nd Tank Battalion
150th RAC Regiment
23rd Indian Division
70th British Division
69th Coast AA Regiment
77th Coast AA Regiment
251st Coast AA Regiment
2/11th Field Regiment
134th Field Artillery Battalion
260th Coast AA Regiment
1st USMC AA Battalion
1st USMC Field Artillery Battalion
6th Medium Regiment
2/9th Field Regiment
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
1st Division
8th Division
48th Division
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
23rd Fld AA Gun Co
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
2nd Army
22nd Ind.AA Gun Co
2nd Air Defense AA Regiment
21st Medium Field Artillery Battalion
9th RF Gun Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Judging from latest recon I'd say Madras has 2+ divisions now. Could be to tough to crack with what I'm bringing, but I can at least invest and stop his industrial production there.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 11/12/2014 7:07:04 PM >

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Post #: 1317

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 6:23:08 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The 90mmM2DP.

Alfred

Thanks Alfred. I suspected this would be it but wanted to make sure.

Tracker will usually tell you which device is the upgrade.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1318

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 7:24:58 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

The 90mmM2DP.

Alfred

Thanks Alfred. I suspected this would be it but wanted to make sure.

Tracker will usually tell you which device is the upgrade.

I'm not running tracker in this game! Or combat reporter, or anything. Not because I don't like them. Just did a reinstall before the game and never took the time to set it all up again.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 1319

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjo... - 11/12/2014 9:07:27 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
I'm not running tracker in this game! Or combat reporter, or anything. Not because I don't like them. Just did a reinstall before the game and never took the time to set it all up again.

The joys of playing Allies.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 1320

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