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I like this idea. - 2/14/2003 7:14:21 AM

Buzzard45

Posts: 364
Joined: 1/11/2003
From: Regina, Canada
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RobW
[B]How about making it more complex - a league system (or number of leagues) that way it is easier for inexperienced players like myself to find opponents during the tournament (ie they are already decided). Depending on the number of people wanting to play you could have multiple leagues - top 2 from each go through after ecah person in the league plays the other once (or twice) into a knock out phase. [/B][/QUOTE]

It could be set up like a curling bonspiel. A-event losers go to B-event. B-event loser go to C-event. C-event losers go to D-event. D-event losers are out. Everyone starts in A. Finals are A against C B against D winners play off. This way all players are envolved for the longest time and have a chance. Only exception is that A event winner needs a double knock-out.

I like Rbrunman's idea that all player change countries. Opponents can be set by round number. i.e. Round 1- Everyone plays German vs Soviets. Player one picks date and points, player two picks side.(most even way, like kids cutting a choclate bar- cutter doesn't choose). That way all games have even chance and skill level is across the board not just on as one nation. You will be surprised at how much you will learn by playing your traditional opponent. We all know that "what and when" you pick often decides the battle before it begins. And the Brits ain't so bad. I win with them all the time. OKay not ALL the time but lots.

RED: If you need a volunteer to keep score with this type of layout. I'll be there.

Please count me in on the tourney.

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Post #: 31

- 2/14/2003 8:26:21 AM

VikingNo2

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I would like to enter, the switching of countries is a good plan in my opinion. I liked the Major and minor country blind draw of last time, also the there should be a set point range like from 4k-7k (just an example).

H2H and 7.1 shouldn't be mixed in my opinion either, just have a tourney in both.

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Post #: 32

a beginner tries his luck :p - 2/14/2003 8:30:33 AM

BlueLavender

Posts: 102
Joined: 8/30/2002
From: Singapore
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can me as a beginner sign up also ? :)

90% chance, I'll be the first round casualties , but I do want to try.. :)

if allowed, then I vouch for H2H, and I go for... Japan (well, since nobody has yet signed up with Japan as country of choice :p)

BL

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Post #: 33

- 2/14/2003 8:44:13 AM

Hades

Posts: 565
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Texas
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Am I too late to sign up.
I just got SPWAW downloaded. 8 days :mad: :mad:

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Post #: 34

- 2/14/2003 9:13:50 AM

red

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The idea of the previous champoinship was to keep overhead low and don't get confused. I don't mind somebody managing a more complex setup but then you'd have to be available to do so throughout the tournment. We can introduce the A-B-C-D system if we agree on game completion time, otherwise it may become too dragged out. Also we could try a tryouts/playoff system. You get 1 point for a win in tryouts. Play 5 short games so your max points is 5. Whoever has 3 points (>50%) advances to playoffs.

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Post #: 35

- 2/14/2003 10:48:46 AM

Buzzard45

Posts: 364
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From: Regina, Canada
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]I'm in.

Suggestions:

Depending on how many people sign up, we should have strict time tables for finishing the games. e.g. If you have 30 days to finish a game, then on the last day you have to end the game and the one with the highest point total moves on.

Also, if there is no contact heard for 2 to 3 days then a warning post should be put in the DAR forum and then there is 24 hours to respond with a turn or an "I'll get the turn to you in xx.." or you forfeit. The reason for this is that the WC Champion should be someone who is reliable, not only a great player (V2 is a great example in this regard and is also deserving of the title for this fact).

These kind of simple rules can put us on a schedule so we can know that on December 15th, 2003 we will have a winner (or whatever date we choose).

Should we allow any sized games so long as the players know they are limited in time or should we make everyone play the same poiints (e.g. 5000).

I also think, this time we should make people play different countries. I mean, you may be awesome playing the Russians, but if you suck at everything else, are you really the best player? I think you should be prohibited from playing the same country twice in a row.

Just my thoughts... [/B][/QUOTE]

30 days sounds about right. Judge your points accordingly.

With 16 players and second knock-out for the winner of A event, means 6 play periods. 8 games played simultanious. Up to 32 players means only an addition play period. (so 7 months) With a grace day or two its still done by xmas. Winner based on points. Players can exchange passwords to verify damage points. Forfeits for non-play or non-response. I suggest month ends as easy to remember stop dates. First period gets 5 weeks if we start this weekend.

VikingNo2 "I would like to enter, the switching of countries is a good plan in my opinion. I liked the Major and minor country blind draw of last time, also the there should be a set point range like from 4k-7k (just an example)."

How did the blind draw work? Or do you think that a mirrored format(reversed sides played at the same time) of pre-determined countries would make sense? H2H or 7.1? not both.

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Post #: 36

- 2/14/2003 4:41:33 PM

sandman20

Posts: 848
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From: Finland
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How many players are actually needed?
If I counted it right, there's 16 players in now.

rbrunsman
AngryDeemon1
Rokondo
sandman20
CPT Shoe
M4 Jess
Brutto-Bob
RobW
mlomax
3/2 ACR
Gary Tatro
dodger
Shiner
VikingNo2
Hades
BlueLavender

Sorry, if I didn't notice someone...;)

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Post #: 37

Signing Up - 2/14/2003 4:47:25 PM

Ironfist

Posts: 126
Joined: 3/22/2002
From: Cincinnati,Ohio.
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I would like a second shot at the World Games, Having my tanks shot out from under me the last tourney. I would like a second chance. I prefer Germans or Finland as a minor country. Either spwaw or H2H is fine with me. I will say that I wont play as Germany past 1944 and No air units this time around.:eek:

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Post #: 38

- 2/14/2003 6:38:01 PM

Scharfsch�tze

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From: Germany
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I�m in!

Of, course, I�ll stick to Germany. LEt�s hope I won�t encounter too many per-turn VH�s in combination with M4 105�s and �zookas this time...

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Post #: 39

- 2/14/2003 7:50:15 PM

Belisarius

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I think I'm compelled to enter this contest, since I didn't the last time. Hey, I must try at least. :D

What about the organization? I guess an open tournament is easier to handle, but then again, league play might prove more interesting. Let's say that the top 10 seeded players (based on WC '02 results) won't get into play until the first round of games is settled?

Another thing - standardized games? E.g.

20 turns
meeting engagements
-41: 4000p
-43: 6000p
-45: 8000p

10% arty, 5% OBA ?? (in any case no more that 5% OBA - arty does not make one great :p )

I'm in. Germans, ofcourse, 2nd pick would be Finns :cool:

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Post #: 40

- 2/14/2003 8:49:34 PM

VikingNo2

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I would like to see no per turn Vhexs, everyone please chime in on this one.

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Post #: 41

- 2/14/2003 8:50:55 PM

RobW

Posts: 296
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From: Newcastle - UK
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ok, silly question whats a per turn vhex? is this one where you gets points for each turn you hold it?

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Post #: 42

- 2/14/2003 9:26:47 PM

VikingNo2

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Thats correct my good man

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Post #: 43

- 2/14/2003 9:27:38 PM

RobW

Posts: 296
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From: Newcastle - UK
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see, I have learnt something from letting you beat me!

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Post #: 44

Re: Vhexes - 2/14/2003 9:31:55 PM

Buzzard45

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There are some hexes that count victory points per turn. Points per turn hexes should only be allowed in Delay or defend. Since this will likely be all meeting engagements points per turn should be banned.

I'd like some feedback on True Rarity On. It stops the "100 AT's in jeeps" concept. Yep, you might get short changed but so will the other guy.

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Post #: 45

My two cents - 2/14/2003 9:46:44 PM

VikingNo2

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I don't mind rarity on

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Post #: 46

- 2/14/2003 10:18:38 PM

sandman20

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Rarity on, I agree that too.

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Post #: 47

- 2/14/2003 10:38:04 PM

Stonefire

Posts: 29
Joined: 10/23/2000
From: Denmark
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If it's not to late I would like to sign up.

I prefer H2H but I have 7.1 too.

I will take any country but prefer:

ANZAC
Japan
or as a special suicide mission

Italy

Regards

Stonefire
Viborg
Denmark

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Post #: 48

- 2/14/2003 11:12:56 PM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
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I'm all for rarity ON.

Bel: OBA = On Board Arty, right? (it could just as easily = Off Bd. Arty) I like that idea too. That's how Gary eliminated me (I couldn't do anything about the continuous rain of US 4.2 in. mortars :mad: :mad: :mad: )

I also like the buy point limits you suggest. I am more interested in reading DARs about matches that are similar to games I am playing. Reading about a 12K game is hard to compare to your own 4K game. i.e. I want to see what others do given the same resources I had to deal with.

Are we all agreed to my suggestions about forfeits if no word is heard for 3 days + a warning day posted in the DAR Forum? I know everyone has good intentions in signing up, but we need to keep the tourney moving and it is a certainty that personal lives will get in the way of at least some people who have signed up.

Also, I seriously think people should not be allowed to play the same country two times in a row. Being good at three countries would be even more impressive, but 2 is fine with me. e.g. The guy who takes the US/Germany the whole time certainly has an advantage over everyone else. (I don't care for US v US or German v German battles myself)

I also agree about the per turn VH games. They should not be a part of this tourney.

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Post #: 49

I for one disagree. - 2/15/2003 1:05:07 AM

Gary Tatro

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]I'm all for rarity ON.[/B][/QUOTE]

I have played some games where it just became rediculous. I would rather that we have a rule saying that all players should consider taking a balanced force. I do not take a over predominate force in one thing no matter what Viking or Rbrunsman might suggest. I give them my password at the end of the game and they can look. Reinforcements is different your request what you need to meet the threat of your opponent.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]
Bel: OBA = On Board Arty, right? (it could just as easily = Off Bd. Arty) I like that idea too. That's how Gary eliminated me (I couldn't do anything about the continuous rain of US 4.2 in. mortars :mad: :mad: :mad: ).[/B][/QUOTE]
RB this is not true all of my artillary was on board. You could have targeted it with your artillary if you had wanted. The continuous fire was due to an ammo depot. As far as rarity 4.2 mortor are a zero. I purchased one company which was within the 10% limit we set.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]
I also like the buy point limits you suggest. I am more interested in reading DARs about matches that are similar to games I am playing. Reading about a 12K game is hard to compare to your own 4K game. i.e. I want to see what others do given the same resources I had to deal with..[/B][/QUOTE]

I agree that same point games for everyone would be more interesting but I would warn you against setting them to low, one mistake and your cooked.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]
Are we all agreed to my suggestions about forfeits if no word is heard for 3 days + a warning day posted in the DAR Forum? I know everyone has good intentions in signing up, but we need to keep the tourney moving and it is a certainty that personal lives will get in the way of at least some people who have signed up..[/B][/QUOTE]
It is unfair and unrealistic to require people to replie so often. Sometimes things come up in life that no one can predict. JJ or any number of Americans could be called in for service in 48 hours. I think with e-mail you can keep your opponent informed of what is happening. So if it has been 2 weeks and you have not got an e-mail from your opponent then I would think you have grounds for forfeiture. On the other hand if I e-mail you and say I am going away for 4 days I do not think I should have to forfeit my game.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]
Also, I seriously think people should not be allowed to play the same country two times in a row. Being good at three countries would be even more impressive, but 2 is fine with me. e.g. The guy who takes the US/Germany the whole time certainly has an advantage over everyone else. (I don't care for US v US or German v German battles myself).[/B][/QUOTE]

I completly disagree. All this will do is tell you who has the most time to play SPWAW and we allready know that that is JJ. So I have spent my time playing one or two countries that I like. And have gotten really good at playing one. Should I be penalized for this. This is suppose to be the World Cup. In this respect I thought each person was suppose to chose a country that would be the one they would like to represent. As for US/Germany combo I again disagree. Yes US has streangths but it also has many weeknesses. Play against it before 42 and the US oob is pretty bad. The Germans are good but all of their stuff is very expensive compared to everyone else. So I think we should rely on the point system developed with SPWAW. I think it works very well and do not think that you should try to fix something that is not brooken.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]
I also agree about the per turn VH games. They should not be a part of this tourney. [/B][/QUOTE] Ok I agree with this. :) :) :)

And RB as far as the reason you and I lost the WC was not to any of the above it had to do with the our orignial BAD PURCHASES, you with Ski infantry :) and me with M3's instead of M4's :(

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Post #: 50

Schedule (or new format) - 2/15/2003 1:13:39 AM

mogami

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Hi, Just kicking around a few ideas. I have to wait for a CD, Jess sent me to arrive. I'll run the Italians.

If we get enough players make Divisions of 4 players. Each plays the other teams in Div twice. Most points win Division and goes to playoffs.

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Post #: 51

- 2/15/2003 1:14:23 AM

VikingNo2

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From: NC
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Hey its not allot of time, its speed baby:D :D

I Never watch the replay, except when playing Gary, you would be suprized how much that speeds the game. And that whole # * thing it just slows things down.

The time thing is an issue I already know I will be gone allot this year. But if I can just get to a internet cafe

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Post #: 52

Oh Yeah! - 2/15/2003 1:30:59 AM

ThomasBELL123

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I'll take a stab at it.

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Post #: 53

- 2/15/2003 4:18:55 AM

rbrunsman

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Gary, what I meant about not hearing from someone for 3 days and then giving a 24 hour warning before forfeiture was not intended to mean you have to get a turn out every 3 days. I meant just plain not hearing from someone and not knowing what's going on. As an example: V2 and I just last week got crossed up on whose turn it was and a week went by before V2 asked me for the turn. If you have constant communications going then you always know where you stand in the game and valuable time isn't wasted. There is a 30 day time limit per round, after all. If I'm going on vacation this year, I should tell my opponent I'll be gone for a week and that wouldn't be considered grounds for a forfeit. If you get called up for active duty and won't be able to reach the internet, then I think you would have to forfeit in the interest of getting on with the rounds.

As for On Board Arty, I think it was implied in Bel's statement that the reason On Board Arty is so powerful is that you can use ammo dumps and continuously reload them. Off Board Arty has the inherent limitation that you can't reload it so you have to be more judicious with your use of it. (Quoting Bel: "Arty does not make one great. :p ")

As for playing more than one country. If someone has to play only one, then I guess that's OK, but I'll be switching countries to Axis or Allies in order to be the opposite of my opponent.

And, I lost to V2 primarily because we played a low point value, late war H2H match (my first) with me as Germans (a heavy disadvantage, all would agree, I'm sure). (Not to mention I played poorly :o ). My loss to you certainly wasn't helped by learning the hard way that ski troops can't close assault, but I would mostly place it to the fact of your mortars landing every turn throughout the match with US speed and precision.

Gary, I hope you don't feel like I've personally attacked you. I can only provide my thoughts based on my experiences in the first WC. So, since I didn't really lose to anyone else, my thoughts on improving the next one are mostly based on that loss. I can't really gripe about the wins I had can I? :)

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Post #: 54

- 2/15/2003 6:40:38 AM

Belisarius

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Yes, rb, that's my point. :) But... on the other hand, onboard arty is always within reach for countermeasures. Offboards are untouchable, in particular when you play Germans since their guns are outranged by virtually every other nation it seems ("#�"#%&).
Then again, offboards are prone to tea breaks... :rolleyes:

I'd even accept a total of 5% arty (not counting AA and AT). After all, this IS the World Cup. :p

For Rarity, I say NO! If you want arguments, check any reply Goblin has made on this issue. As unrealistic as rarity OFF can be, so is rarity ON. I mean, come up short-handed on frickin' MG's just because you had some mounted in your scout cars??? C'mon! That's not even the same ball park!

Bel says: Rarity OFF. :cool:

(other issues: c&c on? yeah, if everybody does it. mines? yea, engineer laid at least)

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Post #: 55

- 2/15/2003 6:47:14 AM

dodger

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About arty, 5-10% should be the limit, as long as you only count stuff that can fire indirectly as arty (assault guns in german army did belong to the artillery troops, but they still don't fire indirectly in this game, hence they're not arty in my opinion).

About C&C, some are used to play with it, some arent. But everyone knows how to play without it. I suggest C&C off unless both parties agree to it being on.

For that matter, I suggest everything that the two players agree to, to make their game more enjoyable, is OK. No matter what the tournament rules say. If they decide to flip a coin instead of playing, fine by me.

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Post #: 56

- 2/15/2003 7:02:20 AM

CPT Shoe

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5% arty limitation (Combined on and off board) not including AA and AT. .. Does that include small mortars??

Points limits between 5000 and 10000 sound good. 8000 is a nice number to come up with a well rounded force.

I don't have any problems with time limitations mentioned in the thread...Bottom line is open communication is the key!

I don't think that playing only one country is a handicap, unless someone starts stipulating "I'll play American only after winter of 44", or "I'll be Germans only earlier than 43". Don't know what the answer is, but there has to be some kind of balance. Maybe you have to play both sides in the same time period against the same opponent, but then that opens up how to decide who wins if you split games.

Once some kind of quorum has been reached, are the conditions of the WC matches going to be agreed upon?

Don't you just love how each new post opens up more questions and makes a simple concept difficult to execute.

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Post #: 57

- 2/15/2003 7:20:39 AM

Belisarius

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPT Shoe
[B]5% arty limitation (Combined on and off board) not including AA and AT. .. Does that include small mortars??
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'd say no, since many armies have 50mm mortars as platoon heavy weapons. Makes it too difficult to calculate total points.

I'd say "arty" counts as 75mm and up, although I'm inclined to limit the size of U.S. armies to <60mm for arty. (because those 60mms of theirs are a) quick on response b) accurate to the point) Whatever. :rolleyes: Light mortars should not count towards your arty points.

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Post #: 58

- 2/15/2003 8:25:58 AM

VikingNo2

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I believe you should count it all, the 50mm Russian is a very good item, not counting it and playing against a Russian opponent would give you a rude suprize, I know the 50mm German isn't very good but I feel it would be better to just say 10% arty to keep things firing constently you need a Ammo dump or ammo trucks they are expensive and good targets.

H2H makes the 60mm US much more expensive. In H2H Germany's Arty is actually cpeaper than the US it makes things much more interesting

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Post #: 59

- 2/15/2003 12:32:26 PM

stevemk1a

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If it's not too late, I'd like to offer myself up as cannon fodder...

My .02 is that Nationality is a big factor ... I think a little 'wriggle room' should be involved ... not just one choice of Nat. for every game.

I would propose no Air elements unless both sides have them ...

I would like to clarify if the 5% to 10% arty point limits apply only to the tubes or do they apply to the puchase of FO's, munitions, and prime movers also ... I don't think the limit should apply to the light mortars >60mm that are organic to various formations.

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