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RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 5:52:35 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Again, thanks again everyone for the encouragement! Feel a lot better today! Got to sleep through the entire night with just one wake up time! Havn´t slept this much in over a year I think.

I´m so used to being exhausted I keep forgetting I am...

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 8/20/2014 8:54:32 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 901
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 8:11:00 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Something Perhaps?
______________________________________________________________________________


------------------------
Update
------------------------
Here is the current situation. I managed to get 1350 AV off (minus the NZ BDE that was already there). Now I just need to make sure I kick Tom off Nadi quickly before he can send more troops in. The NZ BDE + 24th RGT and 7th Marine and two Artillery units are moving out as we speak. This have the added bonus of dumping Suva back under the SL.

The Marines got most of their heavy equipment off but both IDs are lacking quite a lot of their heavy equipment. Mostly guns and support. This will of course lessen their staying power but Tom can´t keep the KB stationed outside Suva forever. In about 15 days the upgraded subs with radar will arrive in the area.

I should have supply for about a month. All my APDs are heading towards Pago Pago and I hope I may be able to ship more in via FT. DMs are on its way and will drop a minefield at Nadi first and then Suva.

I´m going to try real hard not to show Tom the two IDs´on Suva. I should be able to reform the 1st Marines in about a 3 weeks. That would increase my staying power by a lot. Hopefully I can entice him into a premature counter invasion. Or perhaps even trigger the Samoans operation. He might believe I´ve overextended and moved the Pago Pago forces forward. Optimally I wold like to pull out the 6th Marine so I can reform the 2nd Marines on Pago Pago. Not going to do that yet though. Its a bit of a mess in general but nothing catastrophic yet.


------------------------
Japanese response
------------------------
Will be interesting to see how Tom responds to this. I´m pretty certain he was sure of being able to capture Suva via Nadi without interference. Possible using the troops prepping for the Samoans (48th + 16th ID). No doubt he will do the usual JFB response to everything in 42: Sortie the KB + Navy. I´ll just try and stay away from that and watch him burn the fuel. The big question will be if he tries to counter invade or deem it not worth the effort.

I am a bit exposed but having the Samoan stronghold on my right flank makes me feel pretty secure for now. Won´t be 100% comfortable before I can reform the 1st and 2nd Marines though. I also need more AA at Fiji as most of it went to OZ.

------------------------
Allied Navy
------------------------
I don´t have much in terms of surface power in the area. The CAs are pretty much all tied up with the CVs and the BB are too slow and drink too much fuel. They will leave for Christmas with the transports. What I do have is the Allied CV fleet backed up by the Indomitable and Formidable (527 CV capacity). Illustrious have just left Balboa with 2 CLAAs and 6 DDs.

I think in terms of number of planes we are pretty evenly matched right now. But my pilots are not up to par and I´m still flying devastators. Not going to be looking for a fight but I think Tom has to be careful not to pick a fight where I can get assistance from LBA and he can´t.

I also have probably 80% of the Silent Service in SOPAC. They are now either getting radars installed or on their way to get it. I decided to do this since I was simply not getting any attacks in. They should be back into position in 15-20 days.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 8/20/2014 9:11:32 AM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 902
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 10:30:02 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		SOPAC - May 22nd.
______________________________________________________________________________

Now this was an interesting turn. And some very strange happenings.

------------------------
The IJN
------------------------
Now this is extremely odd. First of all...almost..almost...

quote:

Sub attack near Lord Howe Island at 106,170

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga
CA Tone
CS Chiyoda
DD Kagero
DD Maikaze
DD Hayashio
DD Yukikaze

Allied Ships
SS Grayback

SS Grayback launches 6 torpedoes at CV Kaga


Looking at the screen in the bottom smoke is clearly visible. I would assume this means he has run them at Full Speed for at least two turns. He is not out of the woods yet as the area is swarming with subs...we shall see if we might get lucky tomorrow.

Now the big "what the heck"? As can been seen in the screen. Half of KB actually turned SW and headed back toward NZ. This might be a response to my CA TF being spotted by a sub float planes West of Tasmania last turn. The other half moved toward Noumea but is listing as moving SW. Did he refuel and head straight back or is it simply faulty NavS and he is still moving towards Noumea?

This led me to move my TFs back towards Fiji a couple of hexes. I´ll hang around and see where he goes. CV fleet should refuel tomorrow and be joined by the Brit CVs. I increased the CAP over Suva to 100 Fighters.

Also some interesting events at Brisbane...

quote:

Ground combat at Brisbane (96,160)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 31565 troops, 320 guns, 183 vehicles, Assault Value = 902

Defending force 60070 troops, 1327 guns, 1011 vehicles, Assault Value = 1525

Japanese adjusted assault: 300

Allied adjusted defense: 566

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4941 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 459 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 95 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 69 disabled
Guns lost 58 (4 destroyed, 54 disabled)
Vehicles lost 57 (29 destroyed, 28 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
600 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 62 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 33 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 33 (4 destroyed, 29 disabled)
Vehicles lost 36 (2 destroyed, 34 disabled)


Very risky move by Tom and luckily it didn´t work. I considered a counter attack but my troops are simply too disrupted. Will leave the coast nex turn luckily.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 903
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 10:39:57 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Good search. I suspect Mr. Kane is unwilling to engage in a general carrier clash at this date where you have some access to land based air and he does not and he is so far from good ports.

The subs can't make him feel good either...how many did he spot?

My guess is he is writing off Suva...

Nice fight in Brisbane....




(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 904
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 10:48:38 AM   
JocMeister

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Good search. I suspect Mr. Kane is unwilling to engage in a general carrier clash at this date where you have some access to land based air and he does not and he is so far from good ports.

The subs can't make him feel good either...how many did he spot?

My guess is he is writing off Suva...

Nice fight in Brisbane....



As usual ALL of them have a 10/10 DL...

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 905
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 11:24:44 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Smoke on his CVs means he has run them hard for too long and sys damage is over 10.

Suva - Maybe take your unloaded troops and spread them out on xAKs to allow faster unloading. Have just enough ships in a TF that it can dock to speed up unloading. Place your best trained ASW air group there with very short range(4 hexes = 2 for ASW). I would expect multiple subs to head to the port and hexes off Suva in the next few days.

Avengers - Your CVs should be looking better with these guys coming on line.

_____________________________


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Post #: 906
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 12:14:22 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		How strong are you at Samoa?

Personally I wouldn't come at you at Fiji, but go ahead with the planned op on Samoa which would bracket and isolate your position on Fiji.

Your opponents actions would seem to argue against his making a very reactionary move on Fiji.

Watch your back.



_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 907
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 1:08:40 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Suva Part 2 - There are too many small bases off Suva for you to defend. If I was Mr Kane, I would land a division at Nadi to ensure you cannot take it. Then, land at two or three bases off Suva and build them up to size 2 to 4 AFs to isolate Suva. Later, I would capture Suva. He has the time.

_____________________________


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Post #: 908
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 1:29:01 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How strong are you at Samoa?

Personally I wouldn't come at you at Fiji, but go ahead with the planned op on Samoa which would bracket and isolate your position on Fiji.

Your opponents actions would seem to argue against his making a very reactionary move on Fiji.

Watch your back.



I would say I´m in a reasonable position at Samoa. Of course if Tom throws everything and the kitchen sink at me he will get it. But that can be said for every place on the map barring the WC and perhaps PH.

I have 780 AV at Pago Pago level 5.58 forts.
280 AV on Savaii Forts 5.33. Forts
60 AV and Upolo level 2.56 Forts

Only prep I have gotten via SIGINT is the 48th for Pago Pago and the 16th for Upolu. I have 300 AV on its way for Upolo but if he goes now they won´t get there in time.

I´ll keep my eyes open for a dash towards the Samoans.

< Message edited by JocMeister -- 8/20/2014 2:47:36 PM >

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 909
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 1:39:25 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Suva Part 2 - There are too many small bases off Suva for you to defend. If I was Mr Kane, I would land a division at Nadi to ensure you cannot take it. Then, land at two or three bases off Suva and build them up to size 2 to 4 AFs to isolate Suva. Later, I would capture Suva. He has the time.


Well, he have to land next turn because I will recapture Nadi by then (I hope).

I agree he might try and recapture Suva but if I can evict him from Nadi he will have to wait for proper prep. That will buy me time. Time to dig in, bring in more troops and expand AFs. I´ll try if possible to put small units on the surrounding Islands.

I have to fight somewhere!

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 910
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 1:59:22 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Got the turn from the 24th back. KB and all shipping in the Tasmans Sea simply disappeared. Worried me a bit that he somehow eluded the CATs from NZ and went due East and are now unseen somewhere in hole between NZ and Tahiti.

Stepped up the search even more. Can´t keep up forever though as flying on extended range is taking its toll.

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 911
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 2:20:38 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Could he have disappeared due north? But plan for the worst!

This is when Japan is dangerous...

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Post #: 912
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 2:42:54 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Indeed. I hate not knowing where the KB is or going...and moving at full speed + 7 hexes of strike range he has a very long reach...

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 913
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 3:00:03 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Indeed. I hate not knowing where the KB is or going...and moving at full speed + 7 hexes of strike range he has a very long reach...


It looks to me like he plans a big raid on either Melbourne or New Zealand. Possibly for VPs?

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 914
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 3:05:02 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Indeed. I hate not knowing where the KB is or going...and moving at full speed + 7 hexes of strike range he has a very long reach...


It looks to me like he plans a big raid on either Melbourne or New Zealand. Possibly for VPs?


No VP for New Zealand that way (except for ship and planes).

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 915
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 3:08:09 PM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Lurking here with interest. Tough choices in front of you I think. I wonder what Nemo might do ? ( He took over an Allied Game sorta like this once.The AAR is still around )

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3310813&mpage=1&key=

What`s the current date BTW ?

< Message edited by Richard III -- 8/20/2014 4:41:13 PM >

_____________________________

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¯ Leo Tolstoy

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 916
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 3:09:24 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
It looks to me like he plans a big raid on either Melbourne or New Zealand. Possibly for VPs?


Certainly a possibility! I guess Melbourne would be the target if that is the case since he can reach Sydney from Brisbane using LBA.


(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 917
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 5:05:05 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Lurking here with interest. Tough choices in front of you I think. I wonder what Nemo might do ? ( He took over an Allied Game sorta like this once.The AAR is still around )

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3310813&mpage=1&key=

What`s the current date BTW ?


Welcome!

We are just a couple of days shy of June 42!

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 918
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 5:25:48 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

We are just a couple of days shy of June 42!


Bet you're drooling for some P-40Ks. And to think how much you dissed them in your obvert game.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 919
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 5:44:34 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
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From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Bet you're drooling for some P-40Ks. And to think how much you dissed them in your obvert game.


I´m drooling for P38s and P47s! But I´ll take P40Ks too...

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 920
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 6:01:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		May 25th -42
______________________________________________________________________________

More to the confusion!

------------------------
China
------------------------
Tom has cleared out the Changsha basin. First units have reached Chungking where I decided to hold with 1700 AV. I can still pull out to the south. At least for now. Bombers have already started wrecking havoc on the troops. Despit level 6 forts I´m suffering a couple of hundred losses each turn. No AA present...at was destroyed in the rout. I have 20 supply in the base... some units have a little supply but most have 0.

------------------------
SOPAC
------------------------
I might have gotten a whiff of the KB this turn. If it is the KB he has moved North indeed. I´m starting to lean towards the idea that he will actually go ahead with the Samoan operation. Starting to worry I may have missed a lot of units that are prepping and whatnot.

If he does I will lose Upolo. Savaii will be touch and go will I feel confident Pago Pago can withstand anything less then 3 IDs. I hope a combination of forts and terrain (Jungle x2) will lessen the effects of bombardments.

Question, does Japan have enough AE/AKEs to rearm a couple of BBs at level 1 port? If not he will have to head back to Noumea to rearm.

I wouldn´t mind 2-3 more weeks to allow more troops to arrive though...

Fiji are back in allied hands for now.

quote:

Ground combat at Nadi (131,160)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 10091 troops, 131 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 460

Defending force 1756 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 59

Allied adjusted assault: 225

Japanese adjusted defense: 15

Allied assault odds: 15 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Nadi !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
215 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
91 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Assaulting units:
7th Marine Regiment
24th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
102nd Cmbt Engineer Regiment
641st Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
8th NZ Brigade

Defending units:
64th Naval Guard Unit


Forts at Suva reach 5. I´m sending some engineers to Nadi right away to quickly get at least some forts up. Now I need some luck and pray that Tom doesn´t have a massive hammer prepped and ready for Nadi and/or Suva.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 921
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 6:16:32 PM   
offenseman


Posts: 768
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Sheridan Wyoming, USA
Status: offline 		It is very possible that he has AKEs able to rearm BBs. There are plenty of those ships available and they take only a few weeks to convert.

_____________________________

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Post #: 922
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 6:27:05 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		I usually convert 6 Lima Class xAKs to AKEs within the first week. They will help.

_____________________________


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Post #: 923
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/20/2014 6:32:51 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline 		The fact Nadi had only a single naval guard unit tells me that Japan is probably not really interested in Fiji. Given the situation in Australia I think you can bank on the KB being restricted to supporting the Aussie forces and limited raiding; supporting another major invasion is out of the question. Honestly he's probably more concerned about you setting up defensive positions in the New Hebrides like Tanna than the other way around.

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Post #: 924
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/21/2014 4:41:03 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info on the AKEs. Thats a bit worrying. But in my experience even using a great number of AE/AKEs rearming 4-6 BBs will take a couple of turns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

The fact Nadi had only a single naval guard unit tells me that Japan is probably not really interested in Fiji. Given the situation in Australia I think you can bank on the KB being restricted to supporting the Aussie forces and limited raiding; supporting another major invasion is out of the question. Honestly he's probably more concerned about you setting up defensive positions in the New Hebrides like Tanna than the other way around.


Yeah, I found that odd. The only thing that makes sense is if he intends to knock out Pago Pago first and then take Suva/Nadi at his leisure.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 925
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/21/2014 5:31:30 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
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From: Konin, Poland, European Union
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Thanks for the info on the AKEs. Thats a bit worrying. But in my experience even using a great number of AE/AKEs rearming 4-6 BBs will take a couple of turns.


My experience is different.
Usually i was able to rearm 4BB TF in single day using 3 AKE (Lima class), and it was after bombardment mission.



_____________________________

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Post #: 926
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/21/2014 6:18:04 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Thanks for the info on the AKEs. Thats a bit worrying. But in my experience even using a great number of AE/AKEs rearming 4-6 BBs will take a couple of turns.


My experience is different.
Usually i was able to rearm 4BB TF in single day using 3 AKE (Lima class), and it was after bombardment mission.


Ouch, that doesn´t sound good for me!

(in reply to koniu)
Post #: 927
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/21/2014 6:43:41 AM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Japanese plans
______________________________________________________________________________

I´m getting more and more confused about Toms intentions. I´ve been pouring over Intel Monkey trying to find a clue but I come up short.

------------------------
Samoans
------------------------
-I have the 48th planning for Upolo
-16th + 14th Army HQ and 2 Heavy Artillery units planning for Pago Pago.
-2 Artillery units planning for Savaii. Possibly an ID planning for here as well.

All these are fairly recent in SIGINT. The earliest one is on the 14th Army HQ on the 30th April. I hope that means they have some time before fully prepped. One of the Artillery units prepping for Pago Pago was found by SIGINT moving to Rabaul last turn.

Question for the JFBs: How much would be reasonable to expect him to be able to lift in one go? Can he lift 3 IDs + support troops this deep in SOPAC? Would it be reasonable to expect him to wait for a full prepp before trying to land? Personally I have bad experiences trying to land semi prepped when enemy troops are present on the landing site. Thoughts and experiences from JFBs on this?

------------------------
Western OZ
------------------------
-4th ID + 10th Guards Mixed BDE planning for Perth

------------------------
IDs unaccounted for
------------------------
-2nd ID (last seen on Java)
-33rd ID (last known location 33/B at Noumea)
-55th ID (never found, probably not rebuilt)
-56th ID (last seen on Java)

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 928
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/21/2014 6:49:14 AM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

The fact Nadi had only a single naval guard unit tells me that Japan is probably not really interested in Fiji. Given the situation in Australia I think you can bank on the KB being restricted to supporting the Aussie forces and limited raiding; supporting another major invasion is out of the question. Honestly he's probably more concerned about you setting up defensive positions in the New Hebrides like Tanna than the other way around.


Yeah, I found that odd. The only thing that makes sense is if he intends to knock out Pago Pago first and then take Suva/Nadi at his leisure.


He could also be trying to get your attention in the wrong area, allocate some Divs to prep for the area, land a sacrifice which attracted your Cv's and a couple of Divisions only to land elsewhere.

His Divs preppped for the SOPAC area could be second wave of an invasion where lack of prep pts doesnt hurt. Have you seen any sigint for "minor" ports where he can easily pick up the port then land his second wave easily.

I could be totally wrong.


_____________________________

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(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 929
RE: Japanese land in OZ!! - 8/21/2014 7:44:56 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Japanese plans
______________________________________________________________________________

I´m getting more and more confused about Toms intentions. I´ve been pouring over Intel Monkey trying to find a clue but I come up short.

------------------------
Samoans
------------------------
-I have the 48th planning for Upolo
-16th + 14th Army HQ and 2 Heavy Artillery units planning for Pago Pago.
-2 Artillery units planning for Savaii. Possibly an ID planning for here as well.

Well you've detected 4 units prepping for Pago Pago. What do they have in common? NONE of them have any AV. Moreover, prepping army HQs won't really have any real sort of impact on the battle making the prep near meaningless...except in giving away your intentions. If you ask me it seems the Pago Pago preparations are just a ruse. In fact they all might be ruses as prepping is really only important if you have to make an opposed landing which is only necessary for Pago Pago. I mean the IJN landed a naval guard unit in Fiji no problem; why would need to prep for Savaii? Most likely he started prepping all these units for Fiji and Samoa to distract you from the main event in mainland Australia. Certainly seems to be working as well.

(in reply to JocMeister)
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