RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series?

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RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 3:21:36 AM

Mad Russian

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From: Texas
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3 of the original developers have also posted in support of continuing the series. It is my understanding that Matrix owns the Panzer Command series. Which means they can do what they like with it.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 61

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 4:30:12 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

1310 have viewed the thread and 17 voted for a new title,17 out of 1310 views,pretty good

I'll try again to explain how value is determined from a forum like this (this is always subjective, but reality is this is how most companies operate) in
regards to supporting a software project presentation.

1) The # of views has zero value.

2) The # of replies has limited value, more specifically.

3) What a company looks for are replies it "values" (using its own subjective criteria), these can be pro or con or whatever info the company uses
to make its choices. Looking for replies with depth is more than just counting words, you have to make a judgment on buyers intent, toss out obvious duplicates etc...

A poor data collector will allow his or her biases to come into the equation. Having two or more people crunch the numbers is normal to give the best info to the powers that be.

_____________________________

Flipper

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 62

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 5:24:41 AM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
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i'll put my ten pence in then

making it is one thing, selling it is another, it will only happen if it makes business sense and everyone needs to at least cover costs, making money is a totally different ball game.

same engine, then some new maps, code and scripts, new music and icons and your sorted, quick turnaround, could be done with a smaller team and budget...

new engine, totally new code and all new maps and music and icons, needs more investment, wargames don't sell in the volumes that other types of stuff do, and tend to only be single format release with the odd exception of a few ports / conversions, so caters for a single market with a limited audience, i'd love to see and play any new wargame from any time zone / erra tbh

as i play from rome and before to future space battles and like and love them all equally, but also i'm a realist too and know that if it doesn't make business sense then it won't happen no matter how many votes it's get, replies either, maybe put money upfront may help as then you have already bought it so will support it approach seems to be working now days with some games, and also makes sense to me but can be risky if it falls flat on it' face as then you have, and are left with, nothing

< Message edited by zakblood -- 6/24/2014 6:26:58 AM >

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 63

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 9:15:21 AM

aaatoysandmore

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Just ignore the naysayers like Flip and Baird and post your own "opinions" and thoughts on a new Panzer Command. Erik or Iain never said anything about value of our comments nor that they ignored them or didn''t pay attention to them. So, until they say something in the like of Flippers comments I'd just ignore them. Every forum has it's trolls yah know.

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 64

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 12:25:14 PM

bairdlander2

Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Just ignore the naysayers like Flip and Baird and post your own "opinions" and thoughts on a new Panzer Command. Every forum has it's trolls yah know.

Right,exactly what you are doing,being a troll,now if you had any common sense,you would realize after 1400+ views of your request,AND having already been given a response from Eric on the 4th post AND the fact that a mere 18 people out of 1400+ who viewed the thread are interested in another PC title,maybe you should accept the fact that only a small minority are interested in another PC title,perhaps you should try crowd funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_fundingfor your goal.This thread should be moved to where it belongs,in the PC forum,not taking up valuable space here in the general discussion forum.

Ikaw ang gaggo.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 6/24/2014 1:40:40 PM >

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 65

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 12:52:29 PM

vonRocko

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1400+ views doesn't mean 1400 different people viewed it. It's probably the same 50 or so people making multiple views.

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 66

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 2:45:13 PM

dazoline II

Posts: 400
Joined: 11/5/2007
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In my opinion the value in Panzer Command is its open based data model in XML. and with that the potential ability to integrate with other games of different levels. Imagine if you will a game like WITE exporting a battle in XML where there is some type of standardized format for the units and situation described and being able to import the results in a similar standardized way. You can the build an integration coupler that takes that base XML and changes it into a format that Panzer Command can read. Now you can play at the operational level, export information about a specific battle, play it out at the tactical level and reintroduce the results to the operational level game. This could be truly revolutionary in gaming as it breaks down the ability to play from strategic down to a tactical level and break developing it into manageable chunks. A gaming company with sufficient vision could put out a whole series of games based on this interconnection, create itself community good will in introducing standardized ways to describe OOB's, situations and maps not to mention revenue from each game.

_____________________________

Moscow by winter? Only if you send Fast Heinz to Kiev.

(in reply to vonRocko)

Post #: 67

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 3:26:54 PM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Just ignore the naysayers like Flip and Baird and post your own "opinions" and thoughts on a new Panzer Command. Erik or Iain never said anything about value of our comments nor that they ignored them or didn''t pay attention to them. So, until they say something in the like of Flippers comments I'd just ignore them. Every forum has it's trolls yah know.

aaa, if describing me as a naysayer and/or troll is your way of saying "thanks" for trying to help Flipper, you're welcome.

All companies ask for input and it would not be politically correct for an employee (Erik or Iain in this example) to say ANY "input" a customer communicates was ignored (this is universal).
The reality is that upper management (the people who decide go/no-go on all projects) see only numbers (and select comments) after the data has been reformatted (data is ignored, crunched, massaged, manipulated etc.).

You can disagree and maybe your experiences in software development have been different. My thirty plus years in technology positions (Programming, Support, Operations, Integration, Project Management) and forty plus
as a gamer gives me the knowledge to understand how software companies operate. Luckily for me since this is of little value to you (IMO), it has provided a paycheck to support this aging Irishman. And to keep alive the hope
of winning a 100 million+ lottery someday. Which would allow me to buy the rights to the old Avalon Hill classic board games (Like D-day, Stalingrad, Waterloo etc.) and bring them to the PC.

Again I wish you luck, and Erik's response was a "win" since if there was no chance he would have said that or just not replied at all. So down the road anything is possible.

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Flipper

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Post #: 68

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 10:33:54 PM

Mad Russian

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Matrix also knows who each one of those views belong to. Which means they can break down the numbers to the exact number of gamers that have looked at this thread and who they are.

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 69

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/24/2014 11:47:15 PM

Kanov

Posts: 312
Joined: 5/21/2012
From: M�xico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dazoline II

In my opinion the value in Panzer Command is its open based data model in XML. and with that the potential ability to integrate with other games of different levels. Imagine if you will a game like WITE exporting a battle in XML where there is some type of standardized format for the units and situation described and being able to import the results in a similar standardized way. You can the build an integration coupler that takes that base XML and changes it into a format that Panzer Command can read. Now you can play at the operational level, export information about a specific battle, play it out at the tactical level and reintroduce the results to the operational level game. This could be truly revolutionary in gaming as it breaks down the ability to play from strategic down to a tactical level and break developing it into manageable chunks. A gaming company with sufficient vision could put out a whole series of games based on this interconnection, create itself community good will in introducing standardized ways to describe OOB's, situations and maps not to mention revenue from each game.

I like how this sounds.

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Hard-core Spectre

(in reply to dazoline II)

Post #: 70

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/25/2014 4:08:04 AM

Ratzki

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That would be a huge leap forward Kanov but we would probably have a better chance at getting another PC as is then something with this kind of cross game compatability.

I think that PC missed, not because of any great failing in the gameplay, most of the shortcommings could be fixed. It is the competition that exists at this game scale that is the biggest cause of lack of intrest. I have stated before that the PC tank to tank battles are probably second to none in feel and overall fun, but there is CMx2, CC and APOS at this same scale and the competition here is fierce. PC needs to stand out from the rest in order to carve away a profitable slice of the pie. There is not a good game out there at platoon level. There are loads of battalion and company level games and there are the above mentioned squad level games, but where are the computer games that are at the same level as the Panzer Grenadier board games? Would the game have an audience for issuing orders to platoons yet seeing the action down to individual squads. I would hate to lose Mobius' rules as they are sound. I have toyed with the rules on tabletop and feel that they might translate well to one notch up the command scale. Even PC in it's present form almost would play better at this scale, change nothing but some commands and have the player order the HQ platoon to move or fire and let the AI position the individual squads in the platoon. The big thing is you don't have to spend the big bucks on exploding buildings and other graphics upgrades that would be needed at squad level in order to compete, the bulk of the money would be used to improve the interface and the workings behind the "what you see" graphics.

My 2 cents worth.

(in reply to Kanov)

Post #: 71

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 1:09:59 AM

Mobius

Posts: 10339
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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
This thread should be moved to where it belongs,in the PC forum,not taking up valuable space here in the general discussion forum

Right, where valuable space is taken by such monumental topics like 'World cup', "What music are you listening to', and 'Australian beauties'.

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 72

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 2:19:01 AM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ratzki

That would be a huge leap forward Kanov but we would probably have a better chance at getting another PC as is then something with this kind of cross game compatability.

I think that PC missed, not because of any great failing in the gameplay, most of the shortcommings could be fixed. It is the competition that exists at this game scale that is the biggest cause of lack of intrest. I have stated before that the PC tank to tank battles are probably second to none in feel and overall fun, but there is CMx2, CC and APOS at this same scale and the competition here is fierce. PC needs to stand out from the rest in order to carve away a profitable slice of the pie. There is not a good game out there at platoon level. There are loads of battalion and company level games and there are the above mentioned squad level games, but where are the computer games that are at the same level as the Panzer Grenadier board games? Would the game have an audience for issuing orders to platoons yet seeing the action down to individual squads. I would hate to lose Mobius' rules as they are sound. I have toyed with the rules on tabletop and feel that they might translate well to one notch up the command scale. Even PC in it's present form almost would play better at this scale, change nothing but some commands and have the player order the HQ platoon to move or fire and let the AI position the individual squads in the platoon. The big thing is you don't have to spend the big bucks on exploding buildings and other graphics upgrades that would be needed at squad level in order to compete, the bulk of the money would be used to improve the interface and the workings behind the "what you see" graphics.

My 2 cents worth.

This is where I ask you if you've looked at Flash Point Campaigns: Red Storm. (Shameless promotion of another game I'm on the development team for.)

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 73

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 2:33:15 AM

MrsWargamer

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It is enough to say, that if I am in the mood for a game that is rendered in the fashion of 3d at this scale, I will be playing my Panzer Command and not the competition's product.

It would be nice if there was additional content for the game.

The people in a position to use that comment, can make what they wish of it.

If nothing ever gets produced, I certainly won't be in a position to buy it :)

(in reply to Mad Russian)

Post #: 74

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 3:39:00 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
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From: The Nutmeg State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
This thread should be moved to where it belongs,in the PC forum,not taking up valuable space here in the general discussion forum

Right, where valuable space is taken by such monumental topics like 'World cup', "What music are you listening to', and 'Australian beauties'.

This post did make me LAUGH!!!

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Flipper

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Post #: 75

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 4:27:35 AM

aaatoysandmore

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Joined: 9/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander
This thread should be moved to where it belongs,in the PC forum,not taking up valuable space here in the general discussion forum

Right, where valuable space is taken by such monumental topics like 'World cup', "What music are you listening to', and 'Australian beauties'.

I'm with you there Mobius, at least it's about wargaming an a desire for a wargame.

(in reply to Mobius)

Post #: 76

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 4:40:09 AM

bairdlander2

Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
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..

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 6/26/2014 6:20:24 AM >

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 77

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 4:46:35 AM

bairdlander2

Posts: 2264
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There are dozens of titles sitting in the "dustbin" forum as you call it that need patches and support more than we need another PC title.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 6/26/2014 7:51:41 AM >

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 78

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 10:42:22 AM

MrsWargamer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

There are dozens of titles sitting in the "dustbin" forum as you call it that need patches and support more than we need another PC title.

In fairness, some of the titles in the dustbin have more worth than some of the new titles. But equally so, some of the titles in the dustbin are in the dustbin because they have no real worth to anyone any more and no one is willing to discard them entirely.

I recently succeeded (finally) in getting Steel Panthers 3 Brigade Combat to run on a Windows 8.1 equipped laptop made in the last 5 years. Frankly I never expected it to happen. Well in fairness, I merely sat here while my buddy used Teamviewer and went in and made it work for me :)

The point being, I plan to play a lot of it now that I can. Because it was, and still is, the only platoon level simulation that I care about. The graphics are fine, the game is fine, and nothing has come along to replace it that is better. And that includes John Tillers Campaign Series which I consider not it's equal. I have that as well by the way.

There are some games I want to see get more exposure, and there are some games that can go away, and stay gone away. Understandably, my list might differ from yours.

If Gary were to see Steel Panthers World at War re enter the limelight, and not require a complicated install process needing some impressive geek skills to cope with getting it running reliably and not subject to peculiar difficulties (currently it seems the Arty screen is now broken), I dare say 80+% of the games on sale here would immediately no longer interest me much.

But there has to be money in it I suppose. I will never likely know, and I doubt we are ever going to get told, whether there was ever a cent of actual real profit off of the Steel Panthers Mega Campaigns experience here. All that bandwidth expended in providing the core game wasn't free. My telling Gary I'd gladly pay for a properly functional recreation of essentially the same game, even if built on entirely new code (because even I know the current code has been beaten on as much as it is going to be beaten on), will only go so far.

How many people lined up to buy a game, is critical mass?
If I state I will make a payment of 100 bucks, are there enough of me to make it worth it?
is 1000 of me, really just not enough cash. Considering that 100k won't buy you everything eh.

Oh well, I will sleep ok if there is to be no more Panzer Command in the future.
I have gone without in a variety of wargames that faded too soon before.

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 79

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 11:00:38 AM

dazoline II

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Yes there are Baird and as their self appointed champion you can make a thread about each one of them if you like. Why crap on someone else's favourite?

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Moscow by winter? Only if you send Fast Heinz to Kiev.

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Post #: 80

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 3:18:07 PM

aaatoysandmore

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dazoline II

Yes there are Baird and as their self appointed champion you can make a thread about each one of them if you like. Why crap on someone else's favourite?

I think he's a combat mission fan is why.

(in reply to dazoline II)

Post #: 81

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 4:13:22 PM

Kanov

Posts: 312
Joined: 5/21/2012
From: M�xico
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

There are dozens of titles sitting in the "dustbin" forum as you call it that need patches and support more than we need another PC title.

quote:

have also posted in support of continuing the series. It is my understanding that Matrix owns the Panzer Command series. Which means they can do what they like with it.

Yeah what's up with that?, there are several abandoned games here, looks very bad from a client POV.

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Hard-core Spectre

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Post #: 82

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/26/2014 6:29:25 PM

Mobius

Posts: 10339
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kanov

quote:

have also posted in support of continuing the series. It is my understanding that Matrix owns the Panzer Command series. Which means they can do what they like with it.

Yeah what's up with that?, there are several abandoned games here, looks very bad from a client POV.

Who are these 'clients' of which you speak?

Matrix actually owns the source code unlike most of their games which they are partners with the developers who own their source code. So with very little investment things can get done. They can take as much time as they like doing it, no development team is going to starve in the mean time.

< Message edited by Mobius -- 6/26/2014 7:30:51 PM >

(in reply to Kanov)

Post #: 83

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/27/2014 12:12:03 AM

bairdlander2

Posts: 2264
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From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
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I think he means consumers/customers,not clients.

(in reply to Mobius)

Post #: 84

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/27/2014 2:33:22 PM

Mad Russian

Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline

I will say that all this discussion is causing at least a slight stir in the universe. Keep adding more names to those interested in seeing another game in the system and it may happen. Or an expansion of what has already been laid out might happen.

Or BOTH!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

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Post #: 85

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/27/2014 2:52:13 PM

vonRocko

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Count me in. I like PC and would buy any updates, expansions, or new games.

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Post #: 86

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/27/2014 5:01:02 PM

oldspec4

Posts: 746
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Count me in. I like PC and would buy any updates, expansions, or new games.

I also would be interested in the same..

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Post #: 87

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/28/2014 12:47:36 AM

aaatoysandmore

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
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Keep adding those numbers baird at least more are interested and that's a good thing. Tell your friends and again tell those on steam (if you use steam) to come here and voice their opinions. The more the merrier we accept all.

(in reply to oldspec4)

Post #: 88

RE: What's happened to the Panzer Command series? - 6/28/2014 1:30:42 AM

Agathosdaimon