RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses

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RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 5:08:34 AM

Spidey

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So I went back to an empty sandbox game, added some mirror copy planets, and tried out what happened if I simply had one pair build a growth base and the other not build it. All my passenger ships are hyperdrive-free, so they're stuck in my homeworld system which should, theoretically speaking, shut down emigration effects. And the effect is, while not really huge so far, at least quite impossible to miss. The two colonies that have a growth base have grown about 50% over approximately three years while the two without growth bases have grown 30% in the same period. I'll let them keep at it for a few more years to see if they reach steady growth percentages and then I'll bump them to 500 mil each and see how long it takes them to get to, say, 5 billion.

But the point to take away from this is that growth bases, meaning barebones star bases with a med and rec facilities, do buff growth a bit, and since there's really no such thing as "too much" growth, the best approach seems to be a relatively quickly construction of these bases.

(in reply to necaradan666)

Post #: 31

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 7:46:18 AM

Tcby

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKUOB8MN4Kc

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RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 9:16:04 AM

Bingeling

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Joined: 8/12/2010
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Spidey: If you obsolete all the passenger ship designs, you are sure there is none built and no migration.

Some resources influence growth too, right? Make sure they have the same cargo, and that nothing is mined. I have not messed with the editor enough to know if this is easily fixed. The colonies should be true clones in resources in cargo and on the colony.

(in reply to Tcby)

Post #: 33

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 5:31:52 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

quote:

2a. The reason to build the bases is that you get development bonuses from having a base with recreation and medical facilities. Meaning the colony will grow faster and start paying taxes sooner.

Do you have any data on this, Shark? Because I've never managed to observe much of a growth difefrence between colonies with and colonies without rec and med facilities.

Other than my experiences no definitive proof. I have noticed that a happier population gets its growth rate increased. You'll also get more migration to a happy, healthy planet, if you accept other race families.

Plus there is the fact that you will eventually want something built to get those bonuses, so I just set it up to be taken care of automatically at colonization. Just keeping it simple.

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Post #: 34

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 5:35:45 PM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spidey

So I went back to an empty sandbox game, added some mirror copy planets, and tried out what happened if I simply had one pair build a growth base and the other not build it. All my passenger ships are hyperdrive-free, so they're stuck in my homeworld system which should, theoretically speaking, shut down emigration effects. And the effect is, while not really huge so far, at least quite impossible to miss. The two colonies that have a growth base have grown about 50% over approximately three years while the two without growth bases have grown 30% in the same period. I'll let them keep at it for a few more years to see if they reach steady growth percentages and then I'll bump them to 500 mil each and see how long it takes them to get to, say, 5 billion.

But the point to take away from this is that growth bases, meaning barebones star bases with a med and rec facilities, do buff growth a bit, and since there's really no such thing as "too much" growth, the best approach seems to be a relatively quickly construction of these bases.

Responded to the other quote before seeing this one. I'm glad you had the patience to actually put this to the test and get a definitive answer.

Happy planets grow faster.

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Post #: 35

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 5:37:11 PM

Shark7

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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Spidey: If you obsolete all the passenger ship designs, you are sure there is none built and no migration.

Some resources influence growth too, right? Make sure they have the same cargo, and that nothing is mined. I have not messed with the editor enough to know if this is easily fixed. The colonies should be true clones in resources in cargo and on the colony.

He removed hyperdrives from all designs and updated them, from what I gather, making sure there were no designs capable of leaving the home system.

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RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 6:23:01 PM

Gregorovitch55

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That's wicked, Spidey. The law of compound interest would suggest building such a base on a new colony asap is the best policy.

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Post #: 37

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/28/2014 6:37:34 PM

Bingeling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Plus there is the fact that you will eventually want something built to get those bonuses, so I just set it up to be taken care of automatically at colonization. Just keeping it simple.

Are they automatically built on conquest, and rebuilt if they are destroyed?

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Post #: 38

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/29/2014 12:06:24 AM

Shark7

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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Plus there is the fact that you will eventually want something built to get those bonuses, so I just set it up to be taken care of automatically at colonization. Just keeping it simple.

Are they automatically built on conquest, and rebuilt if they are destroyed?

Unfortunately its only on colonizing, any planet you conquer will have to be built manually. Perhaps something we should ask Elliot for?

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Post #: 39

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 6/29/2014 12:55:38 AM

CyclopsSlayer

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Joined: 2/11/2012
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YMMV

What I do is build a single mega-SpacePort over my Home world. Usually 24+ Construction Yards, and 2x Docking ports as yards. Huge Fuel reserves. All my labs are centered there. This Port will contain all my empires scientists, so I make sure to build all the R&D Wonders there.

On the active military fronts I will order a version of the SpacePort, but without the Labs. NEVER more than 1 of these for every 20 additional worlds in my empire. Older, backfield SpacePorts I may even decommission and replace with a Starbase or Defense Base. This keeps construction centralized where desired and concentrates resources where needed. Where or when possible built at a site where there is a hub of trade routes.

The standard Research base designs I delete so if I am using the AI to any degree the Private Sector doesn't even become tempted to build one of these farces.

Over each colony I build a Starbase, limited in Size. Containing just the minimum to defend and allow the colony to prosper.
Typically; (built in this order)
- 10-15 Fighter Bays (depending on the aggression in that arena)so that even incomplete the Fighters will launch when the base is fired upon.
- 15 Shields
- 40 Armor
- Rec/Med/Commerce facilities
- 10 Fuel Cells
- The required Reactors, Energy Collectors(!), Docking Bay, Single Cargo hold, Life Support, Hab Modules, ECM (no ECCM)
- Almost never any guns at all. And when I do, the longest range stand off weapons I have.
- An alternate design includes Long Range Scanners, these are only used as needed to extend coverage and not in general as a rule.

Too many ports will scatter construction across your empire, spread your resources to worlds that have no need for them and in general serve to confuse the Freighter AI if shortages arise.

(in reply to necaradan666)

Post #: 40

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/2/2014 2:12:11 PM

AstroCat

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If you didn't want to mess with ship design too much, couldn't you just us a "resort base" above each colony?

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Post #: 41

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/2/2014 8:08:51 PM

Keston

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Joined: 5/7/2010
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Lots of useful info in this topic! Thanks.

A question - if a facility over a planet (base/port) accesses the planet's resources (presumably through a space elevator) does it need any more than the mandatory minimum fuel cells or cargo bays to operate? Just the basics listed above and whatever weapons and reactor power are needed?

So is it that Fuel Cells for bases are just to stock up fuel beyond what the planet would stock anyway? to stock up

That the Small/Medium/Large name and not actual size is what matters to freighter supply is very useful.

Is the advantage of a Defensive Base with Commerce Med etc. that the AI won't divert goods and fuel to it (and does a cargo bay or fuel cells serve any purpose at all)? I was hypothesizing that in a battle the base might have supply from the planet cut off.

(in reply to AstroCat)

Post #: 42

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/2/2014 8:48:29 PM

Shark7

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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

If you didn't want to mess with ship design too much, couldn't you just us a "resort base" above each colony?

technically, yes that would work, I believe it has both the medical and recreation modules.

But...imagine the advertisements:

Come visit Cosmos 1 today. Take in the breath-taking sight of the smog filled skyline as you watch the poor, destitute factory workers as they labor away their miserable lives! That's right, come to the Cosmos 1 Resort Casino today!

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 7/2/2014 9:51:03 PM >

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RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/2/2014 11:04:48 PM

AstroCat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: AstroCat

If you didn't want to mess with ship design too much, couldn't you just us a "resort base" above each colony?

technically, yes that would work, I believe it has both the medical and recreation modules.

But...imagine the advertisements:

Come visit Cosmos 1 today. Take in the breath-taking sight of the smog filled skyline as you watch the poor, destitute factory workers as they labor away their miserable lives! That's right, come to the Cosmos 1 Resort Casino today!

lol!

I believe it has the commerce module as well. It pretty much seemed like everything most people were saying you should do all in a nice preset package deal.

Think of it as a strip mall/dock/port/vacation spot etc... in space for the colony... or perhaps its more like Elysium! Depends on your empire. :)

< Message edited by AstroCat -- 7/3/2014 12:06:14 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/3/2014 3:31:14 AM

aaatoysandmore

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quote:

ORIGINAL: necaradan666

You keep saying starports instead of star bases... Way to confuse the guy haha

No kidding, I thought one had to be built on a planet and the other one in space for tourist attractions. The one above a planet does all your ship buildings and the one in space does the luxury tourist stuff?

(in reply to necaradan666)

Post #: 45

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/3/2014 4:06:48 AM

Aeson

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quote:

The one above a planet does all your ship buildings and the one in space does the luxury tourist stuff?

Resort bases are the luxury tourist traps. Starbases are generic do-what-you-want-with-this space stations, while starports are the standard shipyards that go over your colonies.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 46

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/3/2014 10:58:36 AM

AstroCat

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Is there any difference in using a star base or a resort base above your non-Starport colonies?

Is there any reason not to just use the resort design base for your colonies?

Or should I copy the resort base design but then change it to a straight up star base because of how the AI will treat it?

< Message edited by AstroCat -- 7/3/2014 12:52:52 PM >

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RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/3/2014 1:14:24 PM

Aeson

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Resort bases are potential destinations for passenger ships carrying tourists. You might prefer to have tourists going to resort bases at scenic locations rather than over some random colony, so that's a potential downside. I don't know that scenery bonuses affect the income from the station, though, aside from affecting how popular the destination is.

(in reply to AstroCat)

Post #: 48

RE: Final Word: Starports vs. Starbses - 7/3/2014 2:10:06 PM

AstroCat

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Yeah I think because of the AI "plans" it would be best to start with a resort base, copy it, then with the new design, change into a Starbase AI plan, tweak some components, and there you go. A fast and separate colony starbase.

I had been building small starports on all colonies but after reading all this I think I'm going to try another approach. I don't want to micromanage all my designs at this point, maybe later.

Clusters will get a Large starport at some major colony.
Individual colonies within the clusters will get my custom paired down Starbase.

I'll build default research/mining/resort/defense bases as appropriate, for now.

< Message edited by AstroCat -- 7/3/2014 4:48:51 PM >

(in reply to Aeson)

Post #: 49