RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A)

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/26/2014 7:13:39 PM

Cribtop

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Yes, it would have been difficult to explain to the Emperor! Operating KB in divisions was part of the original deception plan, but it is not my style to do it that way. I agree with Shattered Sword that there are two types of objectives in the Pacific War - those worthy of using all the Japanese carriers and those worthy of using none of them.

PS - I'm not worried about Singers. We have all the divisions for that op safely ashore and marching toward the objective. Malaya's survival is beyond the help of the Allied Navies. Palembang is a different matter.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 9/26/2014 8:14:48 PM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/26/2014 9:19:22 PM

temagic

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I think it is a sound strategy to keep the KB united. Consider adding a CS or two for ASW also. (I know they drop the ax speed of the TF by 1 kt, but I think they are gold worth). I haven't read Shattered Sword. Is it a good book?

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Post #: 212

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/27/2014 2:08:37 AM

Cribtop

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I very much recommend Shattered Sword. Great book that explains a lot about Japanese doctrine and why they really messed everything up at Midway.

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Post #: 213

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/27/2014 2:44:16 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I agree with Shattered Sword that there are two types of objectives in the Pacific War - those worthy of using all the Japanese carriers and those worthy of using none of them.

Agreed ... I'm either all in or I fold ...

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 9/27/2014 3:45:15 AM >

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Post #: 214

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/27/2014 3:41:39 AM

Cribtop

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January 5, 1942

16th Army

It appears the enemy carriers have retreated to Soerabaja. Needless to say, we are on hold in this AO until KB unifies and enters the fray here.

KB-3 replaces air group losses at Babel. In looking over the air groups, even Soryu's Vals still had more than half its pilots remaining. Things really could have been a lot worse.

25th Army

DA 67, 87 (near Jesselton), odds 4:1, one enemy LCU retreats into the mountains, casualties 106(5) vs nil.

DA Beaufort takes the base with 19:1 odds, 1 LCU surrenders, casualties 230(12) vs nil.

DA Kuala Lumpur takes the base easily with 1390:1 odds, 3 enemy LCUs surrender, casualties 2699(231) vs 143(1). This opens up the good roads and rail lines to Singapore.

Ulan Melintang is occupied by row bicycle.

15th Army

DA 56, 52 (near Pegu) destroys an enemy LCU with 67:1 odds, casualties 500(56) vs 44(0). This action officially cuts the rail line between Rangoon and the rest of the world. These force will move to isolate Rangoon while additional units seize the now abandoned Pegu.

China

DA at the key 83, 45 hex results in a 1:2 attack, casualties 2548(28) vs 887(45). Most of our losses come from two armored car units in the hex that we will remove. There is no supply malus this time for the KMT. Our artillery will pound away here while we shift in fresh units to try for a breakthrough.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 9/27/2014 4:44:28 AM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/28/2014 11:36:20 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I agree with Shattered Sword that there are two types of objectives in the Pacific War - those worthy of using all the Japanese carriers and those worthy of using none of them.

Agreed ... I'm either all in or I fold ...

That's a great way of looking at things. You guys just changed my thinking...

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Created by the amazing Dixie

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Post #: 216

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/28/2014 6:59:29 PM

Cribtop

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January 6, 1942

In which the first invasion of the �real plan� falls on its face.

Subs

No contacts but our subs off Pearl spot a convoy and we will try for an intercept. We are using a �scissor� patrol pattern with our subs and seem to be getting good results. It will, however, soon be time to recall most subs, refuel and divide them into commerce raiders and local subs used primarily to support operations by forming picket lines.

SE Fleet

We are moving to support numerous invasions in this AO, but KB 1 and 2 need to RV with the fleet oilers first. Today, we try a small invasion at empty Kavieng but are jumped by Vindicators out of Rabaul. For reasons unknown, the LRCAP from our CVEs doesn�t show up, so we suffer one transport sunk and one probably mortally wounded. Very frustrating because the unescorted Vindicators would have been easy pickings for our Zeros.

Still, this won�t stop us at all. Invasion forces for Manus, Shortlands and Rabaul are either loading or en route. KB will shepherd them home as it swings to the DEI to solve the Palembang problem.

14th Army

Mauban occupied.

DA Clark Field takes the base from the one remaining defending unit with 5:1 odds, casualties 1272(92) vs 9(0). There are now 9 enemy LCUs trapped in Bataan with the balance in Manila. We will seize Subic Bay and Bataan first to allow for bombardments of Manila.

China

DA at an empty Kanshien takes the base.

We SA over a river to clean up a straggling unit, odds 86:1, casualties 980(66) vs 13(0)

At the all-important 83, 45 we BA while resting and gathering supplies. However, by e-mail Michael indicates that the last attack came close to breaking the defenders here and apparently he was serious as we notice a move arrow. The enemy is trying to retreat toward Ankang. So far recon shows nothing behind this first roadblock, so a breakthrough could be very good for us. We order a DA for tomorrow to take advantage of the fact that movement will eliminate the forts of any units trying to retreat. Meanwhile, reserve troops are ready to pour through the gap and supplies are unloading at Hankow.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 9/28/2014 8:00:53 PM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/28/2014 10:23:44 PM

Cribtop

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January 7, 1942

Breakthrough in China seems imminent.

Subs

ASW assets harass I-153 near Pamekasan but don�t hit. No doubt this ASW campaign is underway because air search out of Sinkawang has detected enemy CVs at Soerabaja and Michael wants to protect his carriers.

It appears that the convoy near Pearl was just ASW ships.

ASW PBs harass O-16 near Saigon.

5th Fleet

An enemy surface force consisting of CLs Phoenix, Honolulu and several DDs make short work of a PB on picket duty SE of Adak Island. We are scrambling a CVL and a group of cruisers to beef up this AO. At this point Cribtop HQ�s only objective is to land base forces and to take Ulak Island, but even these efforts are endangered by this enemy force.

SE Fleet

KB 1 and 2 are refueled and KB-3 is rapidly inbound. We will move within range of Rabaul�s Vindicators tomorrow and destroy them if they try anything. Meanwhile, invasion TFs sortie for Rabaul, Manus and Shortlands.

Wewak invaded and will fall next turn.

14th Army

KB-4 is swinging around the north end of Luzon en route to RV with the rest of KB. Stupidly, we forget to change the settings for the Kates and they give away our position by pointlessly attacking enemy PT boats at Bataan.

16th Army

Batjan occupied.

25th Army

Marching past Kuala Lumpur. Should be to Johore very quickly now that we are on the good roads.

An alternative Palembang plan has taken shape. More on that as we implement it.

15th Army

DA takes an empty Pegu. We are carefully shielding the presence of the Imperial Guards division here from the enemy�s notice.

Rangoon is held by 1 LCU. We will recon bomb it tomorrow and seize the base soon.

Two regiments, 1 infantry and 1 cavalry, are almost to Toungoo.

China

KMT bombers hit our troops outside of Pingsiang.

An RSA (River Shock Attack) catches and destroys two straggler corps at 87, 45 (near Chengchow). Not a huge fan of destroying Chinese units, but these rear area types are annoying as they can cut rail lines.

DA 83, 45 achieves a 1:1, casualties 1148(8) vs 363(18). A few of our tank units are a bit worse for wear and will be put in reserve. However, it does appear the enemy is close to breaking here. We will attack again tomorrow and go with a maximum air effort that includes recently bought out Sallys.

Recon continues to show nothing behind the roadblock on the road to Ankang. It appears Michael is bringing forces from Ichang to try to attack the base of our salient. We have the bulk of 12th Army moving into position both to reinforce our offensive and to stop any such counterattacks. In fact, we would welcome KMT forces pushing into clear terrain. Michael�s e-mail communications indicate that his troops are close to collapse. Based on his efforts to withdraw and the AV shown during replays, this is not misinformation on his part.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 9/28/2014 11:27:02 PM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/28/2014 11:16:08 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
An alternative Palembang plan has taken shape. More on that as we implement it.

LA?

Heck with the SRA, go straight for the West Coast and the belly of the beast!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/29/2014 2:48:38 AM

Cribtop

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Crap, Lowpe, how did you know? Shhhhhh...

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/30/2014 3:17:58 PM

Kitakami

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Had not had the time to read through your AAR. You have done very well in China, your R&D looks good, and you got off the hook easy with CarDiv 3. You have avoided some of the mistakes I have made in my own game of BtS (which trails yours a bit... working on the Dec 24 '41 turn).
On the other hand, the SRA will take some effort, although it is also an opportunity to sink a good number of Allied combat ships. I will be waiting for your posts with anticipation.

Tenno heika banzai!!!

< Message edited by Kitakami -- 9/30/2014 4:22:23 PM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/30/2014 4:55:20 PM

Cribtop

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Thanks, Kitakami. I think it is easy to assume that BTS is a Japanese fanboy's dream with the new ships, planes and carriers. There is no doubt the IJN is more capable in the mod. However, it is easy to forget that the Allies get a much bigger boost than they do in Reluctant Admiral, with some nasty new ships and CVLs. Therefore, they can make a go of defending the DEI if they so choose, and it appears Michael has definitely so chosen.

It's up to me now to quickly seize Rabaul and the Solomons as KB sails by, then attend to business in the DEI quickly. Hopefully that business will include a few successful naval engagements. Of course, it's entirely possible Michael will see the full KB (6 CV plus 6 CVL) and head for the hills. The approach will be important!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 9/30/2014 8:27:25 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop
Of course, it's entirely possible Michael will see the full KB (6 CV plus 6 CVL) and head for the hills. The approach will be important!

Let him run...don't worry...you will get your chance off Los Angeles! Banzai!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/1/2014 7:44:48 PM

Cribtop

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January 8, 1942

SE Fleet

We pull KB 1 and KB 2 into range of Rabaul with high CAP hoping to draw the Vindicators, but they don�t show.

Wewak falls.

16th Army

Lautern falls to a paratroop assault. We will consolidate and seize Dili, which is empty per recon.

This is strictly an opportunistic move but it gives us an idea for how to seize Kendari despite the enemy CV threat.

Speaking of the Allied Death Star, after it was pinged by naval search at Soerabaja the carriers have withdrawn. Cribtop Intel is pretty sure they haven�t gone far, however.

25th Army

Port Swettenham is occupied as we march on to Singapore.

We have finally found a safe altitude from which to bomb Singapore�s airfield to retard fort construction. Amazingly, that altitude is 24,000 feet! Quite a noticeable difference in flak in DBB, eh?

15th Army

We SA stragglers near Pegu and force them to retreat again with 8:1 odds, casualties 137(8) vs nil. The RTA unit responsible for this attack will probably follow up down the coastal road to take a few bases still in Allied hands.

China

BA at 86, 43 (near Loyang) finds four previously defeated LCUs with a total AS of 17. DA tomorrow.

DA 83, 45 reverts to a 1:2, but casualties are 500(64) vs 1095(21). We are slowly grinding them down, and this is before the intervention of 2E bombers, heavy artillery, and our main infantry body, all of which will arrive soon. We can�t use our full strength at once due to stacking limits, but overall Cribtop HQ is pleased here.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/1/2014 8:15:25 PM

temagic

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Keep em coming Cribtop. (the udates that is) Love to read your AARs.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/1/2014 8:35:14 PM

Cribtop

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Thanks, Temagic!

January 9, 1942

Subs

I-6 misses an APD escorting what looks like a juicy convoy near San Francisco. Damn escort targeting routines.

SE Fleet

We order KB-3 to join with KB-1 and KB-2 tomorrow east of Rabaul. The invasion fleets for Rabaul, Manus and Shortlands are all closing on their targets. Once Rabaul hosts Nettys we have a plan to allow conquest of the rest of New Guinea and the Solomons under LBA cover. This will allow a unified KB (soon to include KB-4�s CVLs) to head for the DEI.

14th Army

Just waiting on an armored unit to clean up Subic Bay before marching on Bataan. Daily bombings of Manila are in progress to prevent forts.

16th Army

Djailolo occupied.

We add another IJAAF company to Ternate to help maintain nav search there.

Allied Carriers appear to be back at Soerabaja. Will they linger under naval search or pull back again?

15th Army

The march from Pegu to Rangoon begins. The base is only held by one LCU so this shouldn�t be a long campaign.

China

BA 83, 45 while we regain supply and await more troops. This shows that the enemy has now withdrawn two of the five LCUs formerly present. We should be able to oust the remainder in another 2 � 3 attacks.

DA of stragglers near Loyang forces 3 LCUs to retreat with 20:1 odds, casualties 1186(84) vs 32(0). One enemy unit stays in the hex to suffer again tomorrow.

Cribtop HQ is preparing to respond in case Michael attacks out of the hills near Ichang and Nanyang to try to pinch the base of our salient toward Ankang. We are actually hoping he exposes his troops in this manner.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 10/1/2014 9:36:24 PM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/1/2014 9:30:05 PM

obvert

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quote:

We have finally found a safe altitude from which to bomb Singapore�s airfield to retard fort construction. Amazingly, that altitude is 24,000 feet! Quite a noticeable difference in flak in DBB, eh?

First of all, I struggle with this 'we' thing and you're making me feel better about using it. It feels appropriate and somehow generous to say 'we' when referring to the forces I command in this game, and I balk at using only 'I' as a commander. Maybe it's that we really don't have ultimate control, and the the leaders, captains and other people we put into our forces feel like they're with us somehow, part of this story. Anyway, I like that you say 'we.'

DBB flak is really powerful. As the Japanese you'll have a lot of losses to flak and ops due to the flak. Even on the Allied side I feel it. At 24k you can't be doing much damage though. It's probably repaired and they still can build a bit. Just get there as soon as you can, and bring a hammer.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/1/2014 10:40:30 PM

Cribtop

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Yeah the we thing is a bit of a board affectation, but I've always felt a kinship with my virtual troopers and, in particular, with the characters I feature in the first person accounts. Further, since I say Cribtop HQ and Cribtop Intel, there is clearly some sort of internal structure going on. Finally, I'm quite mad.

As for damage, it isn't enough to close the airfield, but it is keeping it just damaged per recon flights, which is enough for me. As we (there I go, eh) get closer to Singers we'll fly lower and accept losses to up the damage factor. One thing, flak isn't like this everywhere, but where a player concentrates the guns, it can get ugly. This is how it should be.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/2/2014 2:28:53 AM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

First of all, I struggle with this 'we' thing and you're making me feel better about using it. It feels appropriate and somehow generous to say 'we' when referring to the forces I command in this game, and I balk at using only 'I' as a commander. Maybe it's that we really don't have ultimate control, and the the leaders, captains and other people we put into our forces feel like they're with us somehow, part of this story. Anyway, I like that you say 'we.'

The extent of nosism on the fourm is quite interesting.

For myself, it's the "editorial we". For Cribtop, I get the impression that it's the "royal we"...

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/2/2014 3:50:51 AM

Cribtop

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I'm not saying I once got crap from my tabletop buddies when I played Germany in a game about 19th/early 20th Century Imperialism and thoughtlessly entered "Dwain" in the space labeled "Country" or anything. Easy mistake, I said.

PS - I won the game!

PPS - Is there any such thing as a humble Texan?

PPPS - So far, Michael is doing well and increasing my sense of humility despite my intentional plan to play dumb. My concern is that I can't figure out a way to approach the DEI without being spotted, meaning KB will swing in there and restore order but won't bag much. I've considered Torres Strait, Ceram Sea, Celebes Sea and even South China Sea approaches but don't see a way to get through undetected.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 10/2/2014 4:54:27 AM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 2:13:04 PM

Kitakami

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Cribtop, do you really need to go in undetected? I know you will take some losses using the brute-force approach, but at this point I think you need to do just that. Seize the initiative! Concentrate forces in a way your opponent will back down (if he does, you conserve your own forces). Land several divisions in Java and/or Sumatra at the same time. Do not use a rapier... use a baseball bat.

Remember the Soviet saying during WWII: Quantity has a quality all of its own. Use your quantitative advantage now, before it is diminished. Otherwise, you will not take all you need to take, and that is the path to oblivion, especially in this scenario... one word of caution: how many days of Resources reserves do you have left in the Home Islands? That should help dictate the tempo of operations.

Banzai!!!

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 2:29:21 PM

offenseman

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I hesitate to offer constructive criticism based on an AAR because an AAR cannot show even a little bit of the total picture. That said... I agree with Kitakami, early Japan has a baseball bat and it needs to be used as a bat. Saving it for later means you will still have a bat, but then you find the allies have a much larger bat and several of them. May as well kick the crap out of whatever you want to while you can.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 2:51:01 PM

John 3rd

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Totally agree with the above Posts. You moved TOO slow and have allowed the Allies to concentrate. There is REAL DANGER here in Between the Storms. The Allies get way too many new flashy toys to add to their normal OOB.

Bring together everything and drive him. Reinforce your forward airfields, bring in plenty of mavis/Emily add in a good amount of Zeros and Netties then CRUSH HIM!

My .02...

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Post #: 233

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 5:09:44 PM

Cribtop

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The only concern about going in undetected is that he is likely to run if he sees the whole KB coming.

Also, I agree that in conventional terms I moved too slowly, but that was by design as I want to fight him rather than take territory or go for auto victory. I will confess that given Michael's historically conservative use of carriers I didn't expect him to concentrate a CV Death Star in the DEI, so kudos to him for doing that, but I'm not particularly concerned about him stopping me from obtaining my desired perimeter. My only worry is that I certainly planned to take Palembang by now.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 5:15:27 PM

Cribtop

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PS - I will say this: If I had it to do over again I would have put the whole KB against Manila, ignored Pearl, and then curb stomped the DEI. The upside of even a better than average PH strike (mine was arguably average with lower than expected BB sinkings but higher than expected damage to cruisers) is not enough in BTS to leave the capture of the DEI to KB-3 and KB-4 as they are obviously not enough to face the enemy carriers by themselves. Had I started in DEI I could have moved west to east to capture the perimeter. By starting at Pearl I am now trying to hastily and thus ineffectively move from east to west.

However, I will reiterate that I never planned on a big invasion of Oz or India. I want to get to the mid and late game because I've never done that and to see whether the increased juice in BTS (for example, can't wait for the carrier based Georges!) can forestall Japan's defeat enough to run out the clock.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 10/3/2014 6:17:08 PM >

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 5:42:15 PM

John 3rd

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Not a problem Cribtop.

I think you are basically building the case that this Mod is much more balanced with all the extra 'toys' the Allies get. One can still move forward, as the Japanese, but one has to be VERY CAREFUL due to the additional BCs, CAV/CLVs, and extra CVL the Allies gain early. It is not a steamroller--guarantee with Between the Storms.

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 5:58:55 PM

Cribtop

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I you can't be a good example you will have to serve as a terrible warning, eh?

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 6:01:53 PM

offenseman

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You are the people in charge (to continue your "we" reference)

Looking forward to seeing how it unfolds

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RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/3/2014 10:32:27 PM

JeffroK

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Its goods to see a game where players havent "played it to death" and show an incomplete knowledge of the other side.

About getting KB to the DEI, maybe split them a little bit and plan to merge closer to the target. (PS I dont know how strong the Allies are, might be dangerous)

Otherwise, go in strong but block the expected escape routes.

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(in reply to offenseman)

Post #: 239

RE: NFC East Showdown: Cribtop (J) vs nygiants59 (A) -... - 10/4/2014 12:40:38 AM

offenseman

Posts: 768
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Sheridan Wyoming, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Its goods to see a game where players havent "played it to death" and show an incomplete knowledge of the other side.

+1 Isn't that the truth.

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Sometimes things said in Nitwit sound very different in English.

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 240

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