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RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan) vs Mundy (Allies)

 
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RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/3/2014 6:05:14 PM   
KenchiSulla


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From: the Netherlands
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20-12-1941






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 31
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/5/2014 7:39:47 PM   
KenchiSulla


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Joined: 10/22/2008
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21 & 22-12-1941

It's a bit quiet while shipping moves back, reinforcements move up and new invasions are being planned. Tomorrow the walk into Singapore starts!

In the China area Mundy is fighting forward.. I'm taking some risks but I feel the Chinese are too inexperienced to really damage the IJA (and it will cost him a lot of PP if he wants to exchange commanders in all critical spots! From experience I know most are crap...).








Hong Kong shock attack.. One more time?

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 24691 troops, 326 guns, 180 vehicles, Assault Value = 590

Defending force 5811 troops, 111 guns, 64 vehicles, Assault Value = 84

Japanese adjusted assault: 525

Allied adjusted defense: 197

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
522 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 51 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
288 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 43 disabled
Non Combat: 33 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Vehicles lost 11 (11 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
38th Division
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Kowloon Brigade
1st Middlesex Battalion
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Rifles of Canada Battalion
102nd RN Base Force
Hong Kong Fortress


A6M2 vs H81

Several good pilots shot down but the H81s suffer more.. About 30 destroyed now... We need the air..

Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 3

Allied aircraft
H81-A3 x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
H81-A3: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
AVG/3rd Sqn with H81-A3 (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 25000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/5/2014 8:54:22 PM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 32
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/5/2014 7:59:22 PM   
Encircled


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Looking good

Not a right lot the allies can do apart from sortie the main Pacific fleet, which is a massive risk

Wonder if he will try to retake Wake?

_____________________________


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Post #: 33
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/6/2014 5:02:40 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
In terms of ships I think he could but Wake is an atoll and the allies would need a full division and full prep to take it in one go. Not to sure if he wants to try as it does not hold much more value then being a good search base..

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 34
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/6/2014 7:34:58 AM   
Encircled


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From: Northern England
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Very true

More and more AAR's involve a non-Pearl attack, and I guess the Allies are waiting for someone to come up with their own version of a plan that seriously inconveniences the Japanese player involving the US Navy

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Post #: 35
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/6/2014 7:34:01 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
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23-12-1941

A lot of bombing on Luzon, Singapore, China. Only one really noteworthy event so I'll keep it short for todays update

Ground combat at Hong Kong (77,61)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 21432 troops, 289 guns, 180 vehicles, Assault Value = 562

Defending force 5344 troops, 111 guns, 56 vehicles, Assault Value = 49

Japanese adjusted assault: 479

Allied adjusted defense: 89

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Hong Kong !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Walrus II: 5 destroyed
Vildebeest III: 2 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
197 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Allied ground losses:
5003 casualties reported
Squads: 158 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 447 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 28 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 114 (114 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 57 (57 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 5

Assaulting units:
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
66th Infantry Regiment
19th Ind Engineer Regiment
38th Division
20th Ind Engineer Regiment
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
2nd Mortar Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion

Defending units:
Kowloon Brigade
102nd RN Base Force
Rifles of Canada Battalion
Winnipeg Grenadiers Battalion
Hong Kong Fortress


< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/6/2014 8:34:51 PM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Encircled)
Post #: 36
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/7/2014 1:34:30 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
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From: the Netherlands
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24-12-1941






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 37
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/7/2014 1:38:36 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Burma




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 38
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/8/2014 7:59:48 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
25 & 26-12-1941






Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 45937 troops, 430 guns, 255 vehicles, Assault Value = 1418

Defending force 39671 troops, 358 guns, 169 vehicles, Assault Value = 572

Japanese adjusted assault: 1214

Allied adjusted defense: 559

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Singapore !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
982 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 158 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 30 disabled
Vehicles lost 62 (10 destroyed, 52 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
47443 casualties reported
Squads: 930 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2826 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 166 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 383 (383 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 114 (114 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 32

Assaulting units:
1st Tank Regiment
5th Division
18th Division
4th Division
15th Ind Engineer Regiment
4th Ind Engineer Regiment
23rd Ind Engineer Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Southern Army
25th Army
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment

Defending units:
27th Australian Brigade
SSVF Brigade
2nd Malay Battalion
1st Manchester Battalion
15th Indian Brigade
3rd Cavalry Regiment
6th Indian Brigade
2/17 Dogra Battalion
2nd Gordons Battalion
2nd Loyal Battalion
22nd Australian Brigade
1st Malay Battalion
5/14th Punjab Battalion
12th Indian Brigade
AHQ Far East
109th RN Base Force
109th RAF Adv Base Force
1st HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
Singapore Fortress
24th NZ Pioneer Coy
224 Group RAF
1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment
2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
Malayan Air Wing
2nd ISF Base Force
III Indian Corps
113th RAF Adv Base Force
Malaya Army
223 Group RAF
Singapore Base Force
137/155th Field Regiment


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/8/2014 9:00:48 PM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 39
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/9/2014 7:33:09 AM   
KenchiSulla


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Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
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27-12-1941






Soerabaja

After taking some damage to torpedo bombers the IJN aviators sweep Soerabaja with success..

Morning Air attack on Soerabaja , at 56,104

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 35 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18

Allied aircraft
B-339D x 7
CW-21B Demon x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-339D: 3 destroyed
CW-21B Demon: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet *

CAP engaged:
2-Vl.G.IV with CW-21B Demon (0 airborne, 6 on standby, 4 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
3-Vl.G.IV with B-339D (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
3e-1-VI.G.V Groep with B-339D (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/9/2014 8:45:26 AM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 40
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/9/2014 7:43:14 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Chengchow

A shock attack across the river from two sides is successful. Japanese take high disablements but should be able to shake most of the damage of in a week orso. I've got sufficient support in the area. There are now 120k Chinese troops (half battered) at Loyang.

Ground combat at Chengchow (88,44)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 57319 troops, 469 guns, 133 vehicles, Assault Value = 1753

Defending force 37570 troops, 198 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 916

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1907

Allied adjusted defense: 166

Japanese assault odds: 11 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Chengchow !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
5756 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 515 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 32 (1 destroyed, 31 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
17500 casualties reported
Squads: 481 destroyed, 43 disabled
Non Combat: 406 destroyed, 93 disabled
Engineers: 99 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 97 (78 destroyed, 19 disabled)
Units retreated 11
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
15th Division
36th Division
35th Division
3rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
32nd Division
101st NCPC Route Brigade
12th Army

Defending units:
40th Chinese Corps
15th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
3rd Construction Regiment
98th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
7th Construction Regiment
39th Group Army
24th Group Army
1st War Area
10th Chinese Base Force


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 41
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/9/2014 6:28:32 PM   
KenchiSulla


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Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
28 & 29-12-1941






Other news: The tank regiment at Moulmein is beaten back by 200 AV (including two Birmese brigades). Imperial Guards shock attack will go in tomorrow. Not entirely sure about it but it is a good chance to damage 1st Burmese division while is not yet combined.. Rangoon troop count is still high but low guns. Indian brigades landed here or perhaps something else? We'll see.. Probably not going frontal if he keeps it fortified. I've got other plans...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/9/2014 7:32:19 PM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 42
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/10/2014 12:24:03 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
30 & 31-12-1941 END OF MONTH

End of the month and time to post an overview of the current situation.

Burma








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 43
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/10/2014 12:39:08 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
China






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 44
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/10/2014 1:43:52 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
December submarine results

A bit disappointing but not really bad either.. He hasn't really challenged me yet though and now more and more submarines are being deployed in forward areas..




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 45
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/10/2014 3:43:38 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Malaya, DEI and Mindanao






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 46
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/10/2014 6:16:14 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
1-1-1942






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 47
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/15/2014 3:52:30 PM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
Nice to see someone still playing The Empire in a GC, with a very graphic & detailed AAR...

Capturing Singers in `41 is a very big deal IMHO. Good work !

Hope you don`t mind a few comments ? ( I`ll stay off Mundy`s AAR.)
In my last PBEM GC in a Scen. 2 with Beta the experienced Allied player did a very aggressive ( maybe even reckless ) forward defense in China, combined with moving everything not fixed down South and stacking at the +3 defensive hexs. I could not shift him even with 1.5:1 odds if he got to Lv. 3 forts.

He caused no end of problems with that, not the least of which was my inability to open the land oil route from Singers/Rangoon through South China into Fusan. That, along with an amazingly high levels of Allied sub successes ( I was losing a AK/Transport/Tanker a day in early `42) screwed the Imperial Game early on.

In retrospect I should have been much quicker to move all the Tank units out of the Manchukuo Army and combine them into large stack killer tank armies. I don`t know how DaBabes manages the fine details, but IMO China is a big deal for Japan, and if it no longer can be knocked out of the War ( as in the stock game ) it needs to be contained IMHO.

_____________________________

“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy

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Post #: 48
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/15/2014 4:07:29 PM   
HansBolter


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Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
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How is Australian air stationed at Japanese held bases?

In your shot of the DEI/Malaya there are green "air unit/s present" icons (meaning Australian air units) in both Palembang and Singapore which are Japanese held.

There are also tan/brown anchor symbols in both bases indicating the presence of British shipping in both ports.

How does this work?

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 8/15/2014 5:08:51 PM >


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 49
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/15/2014 6:55:42 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard III

Nice to see someone still playing The Empire in a GC, with a very graphic & detailed AAR...

Capturing Singers in `41 is a very big deal IMHO. Good work !

Hope you don`t mind a few comments ? ( I`ll stay off Mundy`s AAR.)
In my last PBEM GC in a Scen. 2 with Beta the experienced Allied player did a very aggressive ( maybe even reckless ) forward defense in China, combined with moving everything not fixed down South and stacking at the +3 defensive hexs. I could not shift him even with 1.5:1 odds if he got to Lv. 3 forts.

He caused no end of problems with that, not the least of which was my inability to open the land oil route from Singers/Rangoon through South China into Fusan. That, along with an amazingly high levels of Allied sub successes ( I was losing a AK/Transport/Tanker a day in early `42) screwed the Imperial Game early on.

In retrospect I should have been much quicker to move all the Tank units out of the Manchukuo Army and combine them into large stack killer tank armies. I don`t know how DaBabes manages the fine details, but IMO China is a big deal for Japan, and if it no longer can be knocked out of the War ( as in the stock game ) it needs to be contained IMHO.


Thanks for following. I've been slow with posting as most of my energy is now put into preparing a new push but I'll have more time next week. In general I think a forward defense in China is a mistake if the Japanese player knows how to push early. Mundy is executing a forward defense and he'll lose a lot of troops in the open plains east of Sian. I've got 4 tank regiments up North where I just secured Kiuchuan. One regiment is on the road to Lanchow and three are a few miles away from cutting the last road leading from Sian into the plains.. My intention is to cripple the Chinese army into a state where it no longer poses a threat. It should be mostly build from returning Corps, out of supply and out of antitank weapons.. I won't use a landbridge as I feel that is a bit to unrealistic. Tankers are the way to go and I am already taking measures to subdue submarines in the area...

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/15/2014 7:59:42 PM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 50
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/15/2014 7:04:47 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How is Australian air stationed at Japanese held bases?

In your shot of the DEI/Malaya there are green "air unit/s present" icons (meaning Australian air units) in both Palembang and Singapore which are Japanese held.

There are also tan/brown anchor symbols in both bases indicating the presence of British shipping in both ports.

How does this work?


I'm using a graphics mod. Green is the color for a Japanese held airbase. Allied airfields look like the attached example. Japanese shipping is also brown with a tiny rising sun attached to it..







Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 51
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/21/2014 4:16:17 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
2 - 11-01-1942

SITREP




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 52
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/21/2014 6:51:04 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
In general I think a forward defense in China is a mistake if the Japanese player knows how to push early. Mundy is executing a forward defense and he'll lose a lot of troops in the open plains east of Sian. I've got 4 tank regiments up North where I just secured Kiuchuan. One regiment is on the road to Lanchow and three are a few miles away from cutting the last road leading from Sian into the plains.. My intention is to cripple the Chinese army into a state where it no longer poses a threat. It should be mostly build from returning Corps, out of supply and out of antitank weapons.. I won't use a landbridge as I feel that is a bit to unrealistic. Tankers are the way to go and I am already taking measures to subdue submarines in the area...

There's no question that trying to dig into the open plains SE of Sian is ALWAYS a mistake for the Allies. But typically you shouldn't see the wheels coming apart for the Chinese this early but I can clearly see it.

If you ask me your strategy should be to advance on Sian from the eastern approaches while ignoring the Nanyang roadblock; pushing along that road is unnecessary. But rather than stopping at Sian you should move as quickly as possible into the road network in the 3x terrain leading toward Kienko. Even if your vanguard gets stalled (or even encircled) the heavy terrain in the area makes it highly unlikely for the Chinese to capitalize on the IJA being overextended here so it's fairly low risk. Once you have secured the approaches to Kienko (or even Kienko itself if possible) then worry about finishing off the Chinese you bypassed. The Chinese will not be able to hold a line here regardless of how long you give them to dig in so I say give him time to bring units to the front to be encircled and destroyed :)

Also whats up with the road at Ichang? Shouldn't it connect to base that is SW of it? On your map it looks like there is a gap in the road but I don't remember that gap in the stock map.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 53
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/21/2014 8:46:36 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli
There's no question that trying to dig into the open plains SE of Sian is ALWAYS a mistake for the Allies. But typically you shouldn't see the wheels coming apart for the Chinese this early but I can clearly see it.

If you ask me your strategy should be to advance on Sian from the eastern approaches while ignoring the Nanyang roadblock; pushing along that road is unnecessary. But rather than stopping at Sian you should move as quickly as possible into the road network in the 3x terrain leading toward Kienko. Even if your vanguard gets stalled (or even encircled) the heavy terrain in the area makes it highly unlikely for the Chinese to capitalize on the IJA being overextended here so it's fairly low risk. Once you have secured the approaches to Kienko (or even Kienko itself if possible) then worry about finishing off the Chinese you bypassed. The Chinese will not be able to hold a line here regardless of how long you give them to dig in so I say give him time to bring units to the front to be encircled and destroyed :)

Also whats up with the road at Ichang? Shouldn't it connect to base that is SW of it? On your map it looks like there is a gap in the road but I don't remember that gap in the stock map.


Yes, that is pretty much what I have in mind.

About Ichang, there should be a minor road there. Pretty sure it is a drafting error of the map maker...

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 54
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/24/2014 10:15:26 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
19-01-1942

Operation Obvious.... Undetected?






Morning Air attack on Colombo , at 29,48

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
29 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
No.232 (P) Sqn RAF with Hurricane IIb Trop (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 20000 and 25000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes


Morning Air attack on TF, near Colombo at 29,48

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N2 Kate x 13
D3A1 Val x 22

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
D3A1 Val: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA Cornwall, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
CM Abdiel
DD Tjerk Hiddes
DD Electra


Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Colombo at 29,48

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N2 Kate x 25
D3A1 Val x 41

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CM Abdiel, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tjerk Hiddes
AMc Tanjore, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/24/2014 11:18:24 AM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 55
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/24/2014 10:26:17 AM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Darwin

Or the killing of insignificant shipping (diversion for the Ceylon operation and just because I can....)

12-01-1942
Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 75,123

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N2 Kate x 37
D3A1 Val x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Parrott, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
CL Java, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
DD Paul Jones
xAP Glenapp, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
xAP Zealandia, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
xAP Stagen, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAP Van Heemskerck, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk


Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 76,124

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 110 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 46 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
B5N2 Kate x 39
D3A1 Val x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
AMc Kawi
xAKL Bintoehan
TK Augustina, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
AMc Aroe, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AMc Bantam, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AMc Gunbar, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AMc Beryl, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
AG Gemma
xAKL Wollongbar, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AMc Cheribon, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AMc Bogor
AG Willebrord Snellius, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


13-01-1942
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 11

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 29

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed


Morning Air attack on TF, near Darwin at 76,124

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 112 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 54
D3A1 Val x 59

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Java, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Paul Jones, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Parrott, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Glenapp, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAP Zealandia, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


15-01-1942
Afternoon Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 113 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30
B5N2 Kate x 59
D3A1 Val x 84

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
AG Gemma, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Rindjani, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AM Deloraine, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AG Deneb, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AM Cairns, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Smeroe, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AVP Reiger, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Ardjoeno, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ARD Soerabaja KM, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAP Van der Lijn, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Warrnambool, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
AS Platypus, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AVP Arend, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Paul Jones, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AVP Bellatrix, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Van Cloon, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
PC Zeeman, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires


16-01-1942
Afternoon Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 108 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32
B5N2 Kate x 59
D3A1 Val x 84

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 14 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
xAP Van Cloon, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AG Deneb, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AD Black Hawk, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAP Van der Lijn, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
ARD Soerabaja KM, Bomb hits 1
AG Canopus, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Ceram, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AM Colac, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AS Platypus, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AMc Alor, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AMc Djombang, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ARD Soerabaja Kv, Bomb hits 1
AM Ipswitch, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk


17-01-1942
Afternoon Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 112 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 41 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 32
B5N2 Kate x 59
D3A1 Val x 83

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 11 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
ARD Soerabaja KM, Bomb hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Holland, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAP Van Cloon, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
PC Zeeman, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Van der Lijn, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Gedeh, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AS Platypus, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
ACM Kangaroo, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
AG Deneb, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Djember, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
AD Black Hawk, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Enggano, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ARD Soerabaja Kv, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage




_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 56
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/24/2014 2:03:06 PM   
Richard III


Posts: 710
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
Deadly strikes. Terrible CAP showing by the P-40`s, even with FOW reports.

_____________________________

“History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

¯ Leo Tolstoy

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 57
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/24/2014 2:25:30 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
Usually I sweep before I strike so the 20 or so P40s at Darwin got hammered pretty bad..

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Richard III)
Post #: 58
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/24/2014 6:55:09 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
19-01-1942

A large amount of shipping leaves Colombo and slips by the Japanese carrier group but run into three Kagero class destroyers I had on station to guard the exit.. Some damage is inflicted for the loss of Shiranui

Night Time Surface Combat, near Colombo at 28,46, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Isokaze
DD Shiranui

Allied Ships
AM Romney, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Ballarat, Shell hits 1, on fire
PG Herald, Shell hits 23, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Halizones
xAKL Halvdan
xAK Demodocus
xAKL Marudu
xAK Masula
xAK Stanmore
xAKL Tatung
xAP Klang
xAP Kinta, Shell hits 1, on fire
xAP Ipoh
xAKL Circe
xAP Hong Kheng

Night Time Surface Combat, near Colombo at 28,46, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 1
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 2
DD Shiranui

Allied Ships
CVL Hermes, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1
DD Vendetta, Shell hits 1
DD Express, Shell hits 3, on fire

Night Time Surface Combat, near Colombo at 28,46, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Isokaze, Shell hits 1
DD Shiranui

Allied Ships
DM Stronghold
DD Isis
AS Lucia
CM Kung Wo, Shell hits 12, heavy fires, heavy damage
AG Haitan
AMC Kanimlba, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
AG Pangkor, Shell hits 1
xAKL Kuala
xAKL Larut
xAP Matang
AG Ban Hong Liong
AG Vyner Brooke
xAK Zannis Cambanis

Night Time Surface Combat, near Colombo at 28,46, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Isokaze
DD Shiranui

Allied Ships
ML No. 310, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
ML No. 311, Shell hits 3
MMS-51

Night Time Surface Combat, near Colombo at 27,47, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Maikaze
DD Isokaze
DD Shiranui, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Hobart
CL Enterprise
CL Glasgow
CL Capetown
CL Caledon
DD Vampire
DD Nestor
DD Napier
DD Tenedos
DD Electra
DD Encounter


Feeling a bit silly for engaging that much shipping with just three destroyers, the IJN follows..

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 59
RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 8/24/2014 7:02:36 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline
20-01-1942

TF 1 reacts to carrier... That is a surprise.. At first I think the TF commander is reacting to Hermes but no, another Brit carrier joins and merges itself with the large cruiser force covering the Colombo retreat... Right NEXT to my carriers.. The LBA now stationed at Trinco goes in first...

Morning Air attack on TF, near Trivandrum at 25,43

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 58 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 15

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 5
Sea Hurricane Ib x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

CAP engaged:
No.800 Sqn FAA with Fulmar II (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
No.880 Sqn FAA with Sea Hurricane Ib (1 airborne, 3 on standby, 2 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 28 minutes


The Japanese Naval air arm finds its mark...

Morning Air attack on TF, near Trivandrum at 25,43

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N1 Kate x 17
B5N2 Kate x 50
D3A1 Val x 32

Allied aircraft
Fulmar II x 4
Sea Hurricane Ib x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 4 damaged
D3A1 Val: 8 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar II: 3 destroyed
Sea Hurricane Ib: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CL Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Caledon, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
DD Napier
CL Hobart, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Capetown, Torpedo hits 1
CL Glasgow
DD Electra


The British strike is ineffective

Morning Air attack on TF, near Trivandrum at 26,43

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 12
Fulmar II x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged
Albacore I: 1 destroyed by flak
Fulmar II: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi


The Hobart shows on fire, heavy damage (some G4Ms attacked to no effect in the PM phase) from the one torpedo hit

This is not the only excitement.. Yorktown and Saratoga show up 10 hexes from Rabaul. I already spotted the pair yesterday but for some reason the G4Ms did not fly. I exchanged one of the squadron commanders and now they do go in... A fair amount of aircraft are lost but the Yorktown takes damage and will need to run south and find a shipyard. That is GREAT news!

Morning Air attack on TF, near Deboyne Islands at 105,135

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 63 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 29
G4M1 Betty x 36

Allied aircraft
F2A-3 Buffalo x 20
F4F-3 Wildcat x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed, 25 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F2A-3 Buffalo: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Helena
CV Yorktown, Torpedo hits 2
CV Lexington

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
17 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

CAP engaged:
VF-2 with F2A-3 Buffalo (0 airborne, 8 on standby, 8 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 13000 , scrambling fighters between 1000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 26 minutes
VF-42 with F4F-3 Wildcat (0 airborne, 11 on standby, 11 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 5 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000 , scrambling fighters between 2000 and 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers


I exchange the shot up 1/3 of the A6M2 group for a fresh one from Truk, just in case Yorktown stays in range.. 6 Submarines are vectored in...

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 8/24/2014 8:08:29 PM >


_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.”
¯ Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)
Post #: 60
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