RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan) vs Mundy (Allies)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan) vs Mundy (Allies)

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RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 10/28/2014 9:21:52 PM

KenchiSulla

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From: the Netherlands
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Yes Sangeli, you are right... Mundy is not helping his defense

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AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 91

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 10:04:17 PM

KenchiSulla

Posts: 2948
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From: the Netherlands
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We will play on but it is nice to see this screen for just this one time... It comes with a bit of music even!

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_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 92

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 10:06:48 PM

Lowpe

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Great job!

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/12/2015 11:07:03 PM >

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 93

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 10:18:07 PM

KenchiSulla

Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
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Points screen @ 1/1/1943

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 94

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 10:19:32 PM

GreyJoy

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How could you grab so many points for allied LCU destroyed?!

Man, i'm envyous

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 95

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 10:29:49 PM

KenchiSulla

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Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
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To be honest, Mundy is helping me there.. He gave up on China and I managed to take Chungking (after a failed counterattack by Chinese respawning corps).. I did nail the fuel and supply sources of China early so that did not help him... The experience the IJA has gained in China is scary, with many divisions in the 80s and 90s and most of the others in the low to high 70s....

I've also destroyed a couple of Commonwealth formations in India (70th UK, a couple of Indian divisions and the Australian divisions 6/7).

Ship losses (a bit of fog of war but I think it is pretty accurate, especially the warship losses) attached in text file

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 3/12/2015 11:32:33 PM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 96

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 11:27:52 PM

Sangeli

Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
To be honest, Mundy is helping me there.. He gave up on China and I managed to take Chungking (after a failed counterattack by Chinese respawning corps).. I did nail the fuel and supply sources of China early so that did not help him... The experience the IJA has gained in China is scary, with many divisions in the 80s and 90s and most of the others in the low to high 70s....

Now the question is what are you going to do with those units? So many possibilities at this point. Finish off India? Invade Australia? Take Pearl Harbor? I'm asking rhetorically of course because I read and comment in Mundy's AAR. But I feel safe in saying you should try something VERY ambitious at this point because why not? Likely you will never be in as strong of a position as Japan as you are right now.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 97

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/12/2015 11:45:46 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

How could you grab so many points for allied LCU destroyed?!

Man, i'm envyous

The ratio of LCU points is amazing!!!

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(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 98

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/13/2015 8:37:30 AM

GreyJoy

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Joined: 3/18/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

To be honest, Mundy is helping me there.. He gave up on China and I managed to take Chungking (after a failed counterattack by Chinese respawning corps).. I did nail the fuel and supply sources of China early so that did not help him... The experience the IJA has gained in China is scary, with many divisions in the 80s and 90s and most of the others in the low to high 70s....

I've also destroyed a couple of Commonwealth formations in India (70th UK, a couple of Indian divisions and the Australian divisions 6/7).

Ship losses (a bit of fog of war but I think it is pretty accurate, especially the warship losses) attached in text file

a couple of commonwealth formations? man, you bagged the 2 most experienced and strong AUS divisions, the 70th UK which is a very good one and 2 indian IDs?!?! That's quite a british stalingrad

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 99

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/13/2015 12:57:12 PM

MrBlizzard

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From: Italy
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Yeah a result gained without strategic points by airbombing, just using mere force

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Blizzard

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Post #: 100

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/13/2015 9:18:27 PM

KenchiSulla

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From: the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
To be honest, Mundy is helping me there.. He gave up on China and I managed to take Chungking (after a failed counterattack by Chinese respawning corps).. I did nail the fuel and supply sources of China early so that did not help him... The experience the IJA has gained in China is scary, with many divisions in the 80s and 90s and most of the others in the low to high 70s....

Now the question is what are you going to do with those units? So many possibilities at this point. Finish off India? Invade Australia? Take Pearl Harbor? I'm asking rhetorically of course because I read and comment in Mundy's AAR. But I feel safe in saying you should try something VERY ambitious at this point because why not? Likely you will never be in as strong of a position as Japan as you are right now.

The troops in China are crack but they are restricted. I simply won't be able to release them quickly enough to achieve a decisive advantage in India.. Right now I can comfortably hold what I've took there while keeping a reserve (I just pulled out a tank division out of Raipur so I have two of those ready for any contingency, and planning to buy the third one out of China as soon as possible). The allies are not strong enough to push me out but they sure as hell are able to block me (especially out in the clear with me not having A/S)..

Besides, what would I capture in India that I would need? It would just spread out my troops in clear terrain. There is nothing there for me.. I already am running danger low garrisons at some places (not just India). Right now I can afford it since I hold a carrier advantage but that also means I need to keep the carriers in a central position to react to any invasion attempt...

The way I play says a lot about me.. I don't mind taking calculated risks but there should be clear gains. I've rushed into two engagements with my carriers while dropping of escorts running out of fuel just to make an intercept. Both times I did good (one time controlled and one time with luck, meeting fast battleships in a surface engagement that my remaining escort managed to fight off). Sangeli, I'm not planning to attack just because I can.. I need a clear objective..

- Singapore early, because it opens up so many next steps
- Ceylon because Quixote showed me its importance in establishing sea dominance in the Bay of Bengal
- Into New Caledonia because of the victory points and strategic position
- China because of the victory points
- DEI because of the resources

I've gained a 5.5 to 1 advantage in VPs.... I've got a supply surplus that will only grow with China now under control, my fuel supplies are growing, my fleet is intact.... What now and why? I think I'm in a place where Japans leadership would have loved to be but I really do not know what to do with it except try to hold it and hope the allies give up because of casualties...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 3/13/2015 10:36:18 PM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 101

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/13/2015 9:40:31 PM

KenchiSulla

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I think I just summarized why Japan should never have gone to war...

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AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 102

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/13/2015 10:35:04 PM

jwolf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Now the question is what are you going to do with those units? So many possibilities at this point. Finish off India? Invade Australia? Take Pearl Harbor?

Attack Russia.

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 103

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/13/2015 11:33:21 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Now the question is what are you going to do with those units? So many possibilities at this point. Finish off India? Invade Australia? Take Pearl Harbor?

Attack Russia.

By Jove, he's got it! +1

_____________________________

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 104

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 12:27:10 AM

Lowpe

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Russia only if the Chinese Army can freely move to Manchuko, but there is nothing there for Japan really.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 105

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 12:58:50 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Now the question is what are you going to do with those units? So many possibilities at this point. Finish off India? Invade Australia? Take Pearl Harbor?

Attack Russia.

This might be the game to do it if you ever had a thought to try!

Well done so far.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 106

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 1:10:26 AM

Wuffer

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The only hex left on the map with some value is L.A... There is nothing left to conquer.

Yes, CF, you are absolutely correct, Japan should have never gone to war; no matter how carefully you plan, how stunning your victories - all your strategy is doomed by the inevitable outcome.
At least I had allways thought that - until this match...
I studied the ship losses, re-read the other AAR, looked at the battles... I can't help myself, but there is hope! :-)

You are right, being reasonable would be to turtle now of course, saving supply and to wait for the predictable next illprepared offensive with the usual predictable results... and repeat... and repeat again until the Sovjets are activated, but that's still a loong time. Yes, I have my doubts if the US could handle this alone. In other words, your strategy would be breaking his will to continue?

OTOH, you have sailed allready beyond any imaginable borders of the known WitP-World, it's all terra incognita now.
And, as I might add, this match has really abandoned any reasons now for being reasonable, too... :-)

Have you ever heart about the Israeli concept in war games?

The decision is up to you. Thx for sharing anyway. Well coordinated operations, excellent executed, a very deserved victory.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 107

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 4:47:41 AM

njp72

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Very impressive effort all round.

I agree, go into Russia and finish it off :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

Now the question is what are you going to do with those units? So many possibilities at this point. Finish off India? Invade Australia? Take Pearl Harbor?

Attack Russia.

This might be the game to do it if you ever had a thought to try!

Well done so far.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 108

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 7:29:46 AM

KenchiSulla

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From: the Netherlands
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Thanks for the encouragement guys, I'll have to sleep on it though :P

My brother used to be an officer in the Dutch defense force and he had some contacts with Israeli officers. I think the strategy is very aggressive because they have no space to retreat into while being surrounded by many potential enemies.. My situation in this game is a bit different

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to njp72)

Post #: 109

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 12:27:32 PM

Encircled

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Can you get enough troops and air and the support required to attack Russia?

Their supply situation isn't great to start with, and its shouldn't be too hard to cut them off from the map edge.

The KB and Mini-KB can screen against the Western Allies.

If (and its a massive if) you could do it in about a year, then you probably wouldn't lose much ground elsewhere due to your victories.

As has already been said, if anyone is going to go for Russia, this is about as ideal as it gets!

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Post #: 110

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/14/2015 3:19:47 PM

JocMeister

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Congratulations!

Quite an impressive feat!

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 111

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/15/2015 9:54:17 PM

KenchiSulla

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Thanks Joc!

To be honest, I would rather buy out the China divisions for defense and local offensives in India and perhaps another amphibious adventure. Attacking Russia would not have a real motive (other then I can so I will...). It's like opening a can of worms.. They are not tasty, you don't really want to eat it and in the end it will just be unpleasant

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 112

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/16/2015 6:48:02 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
Besides, what would I capture in India that I would need? It would just spread out my troops in clear terrain. There is nothing there for me.. I already am running danger low garrisons at some places (not just India). Right now I can afford it since I hold a carrier advantage but that also means I need to keep the carriers in a central position to react to any invasion attempt...

The way I play says a lot about me.. I don't mind taking calculated risks but there should be clear gains. I've rushed into two engagements with my carriers while dropping of escorts running out of fuel just to make an intercept. Both times I did good (one time controlled and one time with luck, meeting fast battleships in a surface engagement that my remaining escort managed to fight off). Sangeli, I'm not planning to attack just because I can.. I need a clear objective..

- Singapore early, because it opens up so many next steps
- Ceylon because Quixote showed me its importance in establishing sea dominance in the Bay of Bengal
- Into New Caledonia because of the victory points and strategic position
- China because of the victory points
- DEI because of the resources

I've gained a 5.5 to 1 advantage in VPs.... I've got a supply surplus that will only grow with China now under control, my fuel supplies are growing, my fleet is intact.... What now and why? I think I'm in a place where Japans leadership would have loved to be but I really do not know what to do with it except try to hold it and hope the allies give up because of casualties...

Well I wasn't suggesting that you attack without a clear objective but I certainly did imply that there are still targets worth attacking left that do have clear objectives.

I understand your calculus here but I think perhaps you don't consider the viewpoint of the Allied player enough in your decision making. Allied players are used to taking a beating early but come 1943 we are all looking to push the Japanese empire back regardless of how many beatings we have taken before. We all have LCUs in staging areas preparing to attack Japanese bases waiting for the right time to pull the trigger. At the same time it's fairly easy to forget that the Japanese are still capable of mounting amphibious attacks and that is certainly true in your case. The result is that many Allied units are positioned to be ready to load up quickly in ships but aren't necessarily in a good position to defend against an attack.

My suggestion to you is to evaluate where you think the Allies are planning on attacking, determine through recon which bases are the staging areas, and come up with a plan to isolate and eventually destroy those units. This isn't just about causing casualties; it's about establishing a psychological dominance over the Allies that they still need to be on the defensive even in places where they think they can attack. And also of course allied LCU replacements are slow to replenish so success today will still have payoffs in a year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder
To be honest, I would rather buy out the China divisions for defense and local offensives in India and perhaps another amphibious adventure. Attacking Russia would not have a real motive (other then I can so I will...). It's like opening a can of worms.. They are not tasty, you don't really want to eat it and in the end it will just be unpleasant

Yes, I agree with you here. Russia is a can of worms and could easily horribly backfire. What if Mundy is able to absorb the initial blow in Russia and actually mount some counterattacks here in 43? Better off using your units to destroy the remaining western Allies.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 113

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/20/2015 5:49:03 PM

KenchiSulla

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From: the Netherlands
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With Mundy out of town for a few days I've decided to work on a plan taking into account my naval and land superiority... How about an invasion of attached island group in late march 1943?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 114

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/20/2015 7:40:51 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

I've decided to work on a plan taking into account my naval and land superiority... How about an invasion of attached island group in late march 1943?

Gutsy, all right. It gives you a chance to inflict some significant naval losses on the Allies and buy yourself several more months of naval superiority. On the other hand, by late March the Allies, and the USN especially, have considerable new toys to play with (Radar, improved AA, etc.). It's a high-stakes gamble. I would check the land-based air the Allies have there; if there is just one major airbase it can be suppressed, but if there's more, you may find yourself in an interlocking-fire zone.

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 115

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/20/2015 10:11:19 PM

KenchiSulla

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I still need to recon the island. I've got the long range Dinah coming in to do so.. Looks like there are two airfields. Suva is a level 9 and Nadi is level 5. I'll need to transfer some ships from India for bombardement duty.. Eight battleships would be available, together with 7 fleet carriers, 2 smaller carriers, 4 light carriers and 4 Escort carriers (about 850 aircraft concentrated), nearly all cruisers and about 20 submarines.. The plan would be to take one of the nearby empty bases nearby so I can deploy support ships to reload ammunition and suppress allied air in the area...

The allies could bring about 4 fleet carriers, a couple of light carriers and a whole bunch of escort carriers and whatever surface ships he can throw at me... Its risky but if I execute this within the timeframe I have in mind it could work. After that he'll start to receive too many new ships...

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 3/21/2015 12:09:41 PM >

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)

Post #: 116

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/23/2015 12:19:15 AM

Sangeli

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Fiji is a good place to attack because of the empty bases nearby. But the fact Nadi is a level 5 air base is certainly going to help you. Allies can't defend both Nadi and Suva in strength and more than likely the majority of them are in Suva. Taking Nadi via amphibious invasion should be relatively easy and then you'd have an air base capable of basing Betties there. Allied naval intervention then becomes a lot more risky.

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 117

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/24/2015 7:36:19 PM

KenchiSulla

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First intel on Suva, provided by Dinah IIIs.. About 25000 troops and looking at the amount of shipping and air it will mostly be support. My estimate is division strength garrison. I'll try to snatch intel on the only other developed base in the area in the coming week...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to Sangeli)

Post #: 118

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/24/2015 10:20:54 PM

Wuffer

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that's the spirit (regarding the old Israeli training: the better you are, the worser they make it for you).

Certainly a high risk, even if you could keep the KB out of reach. OTOH, the psychological impact could be huge, even bigger than actual strategic gains. :-)

Where are his main supply and fuel hubs? Is Pago built up?
Did you want to stay or is this more a raid?

My biggest concern would be maskirovka; surprise must be on your side...

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 119

RE: DBB:C -Stacking to the limits / Cannonfodder (Japan... - 3/24/2015 10:36:05 PM

Sangeli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer
Certainly a high risk, even if you could keep the KB out of reach. OTOH, the psychological impact could be huge, even bigger than actual strategic gains. :-)

I think Suva is a relatively low risk operation if done correctly. Suva can be encircled with Japanese bases that can be taken without opposition as put Suva under a strong siege. The real downsides I see are the time, fuel, and supply investments to make it happen because Suva won't fall easily. Given Allied CV losses its hard to imagine any Allied naval counter-moves going well here. Perhaps the biggest danger is the Allies being able to establish a foothold in New Guinea with the KB far away at Suva. Crossing the Coral Sea is certainly a big challenge for the Allies but once it has been done it means Allied LBA can be leveraged to keep moving forward without CVs.

(in reply to Wuffer)

Post #: 120

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