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RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 5:32:44 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2616
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Heck of a battle J-S!!! Just caught up on the AAR - all I have to say is WOW!!! Once all the dust has settled, what do you think is the final damage/sunk for both sides?


No idea on damage ship withdrawals...I'd assume if its under 50 they'd be good

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 571
RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 5:35:31 PM   
witpqs


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From: Argleton
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quote:

question: do you know if damaged ships can withdraw out of theatre? or do I need to fix them before they leave?

Yes, there is a limit to the damage. It's in the manual and Alfred has answered this before too, but the best I remember is something like 100 combined damage. Whatever the actual number is, beyond that you must repair it.

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RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 5:55:43 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
Heck of a battle J-S!!! Just caught up on the AAR - all I have to say is WOW!!!


Hey, you've got your priorities wrong! Where is my turn? I don't need to remind you that we also have a heck of a battle going on right now, eh?

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Post #: 573
RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 6:46:28 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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From: Toronto and Lima
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

question: do you know if damaged ships can withdraw out of theatre? or do I need to fix them before they leave?

Yes, there is a limit to the damage. It's in the manual and Alfred has answered this before too, but the best I remember is something like 100 combined damage. Whatever the actual number is, beyond that you must repair it.


This is great news for the crew of CL Glasgow, as I was planning to send it in the British equivalent to operation "Ten-Go" had it be unable to withdraw


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Post #: 574
RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 6:51:37 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		And I need more help ...

Any advice on how can I get inside the Port Blair's?
I have many subs in the hex, but they are doing nothing... I understand that ports provide protection to disbanded ships; but Pto Blair is only level 2...

Should I try to get in and out of the hex repeatedly?




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< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/28/2015 7:56:59 PM >

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RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 6:56:21 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

Heck of a battle J-S!!! Just caught up on the AAR - all I have to say is WOW!!! Once all the dust has settled, what do you think is the final damage/sunk for both sides?


No idea on damage ship withdrawals...I'd assume if its under 50 they'd be good


Thanks!! I will be doing a summary soon; Steve (PresterJohn)just left on vacations, so turns will go very slow for the next week, thus I will have time to check #s

But really not too many Japanese losses:
Only 4 confirmed: CVL Shoho, DD Karii, DD Yudachi, PB Seki Maru, EDIT: DD Akatsuki confirmed on June 8th
Plus CL Kinu torpedoed and 2 more destroyers heavily damaged

BB Mutsu torpedoed twice, CVL Zuiho hit by heavy caliber, CA Mikuma too; these were damaged but will not sink



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/19/2015 2:30:30 PM >

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Post #: 576
RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 8:10:14 PM   
BBfanboy


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Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure subs can only hit ships at anchor in a level 0 or level 1 port base. Level 2 brings sub nets or something that prevents attack. Once they form a TF you can hit them. Best to stick in deep water next to the port hex. I have noticed that about 70% of the time a ship going to the port will end its movement in the hex next to the port, even though it should have had enough movement to enter the port. I think it is treated as "slowing down" for the port defences (like navigating sub nets?). Anyway, if he does not have good ASW air or ship defences, lurk.

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RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/28/2015 10:55:43 PM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget


quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer
Heck of a battle J-S!!! Just caught up on the AAR - all I have to say is WOW!!!


Hey, you've got your priorities wrong! Where is my turn? I don't need to remind you that we also have a heck of a battle going on right now, eh?


Yeah, yeah...needed a morale boost before I finished out the turn!

Will get it done tonight.

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Post #: 578
RE: 6th day: The Empire Strikes Back - 3/29/2015 12:05:46 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Allied naval loses (so far) on the Andaman Sea Battle:

Sunk:
CA Devonshire (39p), CL Newcastle (36p), CLAA Van Heemskerck (15p)
DDs Foxhound, Inconstant (6p each)
DD Arrow, DEs Pillsbury, Starling (5p each)

Moribund: These will sink in the next couple turns
BB Royal Sovereign (178p)
CL Hobart (28p)
DD Vendetta (5p)

Total victory points lost = 328

Severely damaged: These have a good chance of sinking due to damage or speed compromised
CV Formidable (179p)
CA Dorsetshire (40p)

Total Victory points including severely damaged: 547

Heavy Damaged: These have some chances to survive
CL Glasgow, DDs Nizam, Nestor, Fortune, Decoy,


So it is not looking pretty; should I start worrying about auto-victory in 1943? I know this requires a 4-to-1 and I am only at 2.62 but this includes some very inflated and wrong Japanese loses...



< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/29/2015 1:12:37 AM >

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Post #: 579
7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 12:54:41 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
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Status: offline 		On May 24th there was very little action:

- CL Hobart sunk due to flooding; this was expected.
- BB Royal Sovereign survived another day; Japan didn't try to kill it this turn
- DD Vendetta found a cruiser TF; and against all odds, it managed to escape
- I-27 torpedoed a xAK unloading fuel at Diego Garcia, xAK Neleus sank, but I-27 received a very damaging depth charge barrage, might not survive the long way home
- I-28 hit 4 times by retreating destroyers' DC
- Sealion missed against CL Kinu; this ship was torpedoed last turn.

More important; CV Indomitable received 24 Swordfish and 16 Fulmars; so it is slightly over maximum capacity (49/45). This gives it once again a credible striking capability to the fleet.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Car Nicobar at 34,62, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Kuma
CL Oi
DD Asashio
DD Michishio
DD Kasumi
DD Isonami

Allied Ships
DD Vendetta

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
Allied TF attempts to evade combat
Range increases to 21,000 yards...
Allied Escort TF evades combat


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Diego Garcia at 11,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-27, hits 15

Allied Ships
xAK Neleus, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
KV Freesia

SS I-27 launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Neleus
I-27 bottoming out ....
KV Freesia fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Freesia attacking submerged sub ....
KV Freesia fails to find sub, continues to search...
KV Freesia attacking submerged sub ....
KV Freesia fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Port Blair at 48,55

Japanese Ships
CL Kinu, heavy damage
DD Kiku

Allied Ships
SS Sealion

SS Sealion launches 4 torpedoes at CL Kinu
Sealion diving deep ....
DD Kiku fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kiku fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kiku fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kiku fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kiku fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Koggala at 31,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-28, hits 4

Allied Ships
DD Nizam
DD Encounter

SS I-28 is sighted by escort
DD Encounter attacking submerged sub ....
DD Encounter cannot establish contact with SS I-28
DD Encounter fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Encounter attacking submerged sub ....
DD Encounter fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Encounter fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub




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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 2:30:34 PM   
jwolf

 

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Status: offline 		Operation "run away" seems to be a success so far ... but with Ceylon in Japanese hands, where and how far do you need to go in order to be reasonably safe?

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 3:32:22 PM   
BBfanboy


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Status: offline 		Does Indomitable have enough ops points left to operate those aircraft? British carriers have so few of those!

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 8:35:24 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Operation "run away" seems to be a success so far ... but with Ceylon in Japanese hands, where and how far do you need to go in order to be reasonably safe?


I would say 12 hexes; better if it is more of course.

Search range/ naval attack range is deceptive; just because Mrs. Betty can do 17 hexes does not mean you will strike so far This was key to the "success" if we can call it that way, simply put, neither Pt Blair nor Victoria Point were in a position to provide a lot of support. Trincomalee was a non entity for most of the fight and from email exchanges, I know he did believe it was going to help.

So key lesson is to not put too much faith on the "wonder" range of Betties/ Nells for naval attack. Of course he just started to correct this later on, with Pt Blair now at level 3 airbase. A big challenge for Japanese players expanding ahistorically is that your naval search/ naval strike capability does not grow with the expansion; you have the same # of LBAs and patrols, while you now have a lot more water to cover. Just look at India; he will need Betties at Ceylon, Pt Blair, Calcutta and maybe Rangoon/ Victoria Point to guarantee a fully covered pattern.


EDIT: and where to go?? I will take all ships off map, heading to Mombasa, then I will sacrifice some virgins (very hard to find these day) to the sea god Cthulhu in hope there are no flooding events.




< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/31/2015 2:31:28 AM >

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 8:38:17 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Does Indomitable have enough ops points left to operate those aircraft? British carriers have so few of those!



It has enough OP points (only 44 expended), and surprisingly a full load of sorties; so it has not consumed any yet... which I interpret as spending only torpedoes so far.




And I am not too worried about not launching next turn; if anything they are moving faster than anybody else to Diego Garcia as they need fuel so they might not be in a position to launch against the Light cruiser TF

I will trade some damaged ships for keeping the surprise; the main reason being CVL Ryujo is unaccounted. I expect it to come sooner or later, better if he believes the British are defeated/ easy target.. Just imagine if I manage to surprise and sink Ryujo!

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< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/30/2015 9:43:57 PM >

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 10:43:24 PM   
witpqs


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Status: offline 		I didn't know that torpedoes were counted separately - I that a plane taking off with a torpedo counted as a torpedo and a sortie.

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/30/2015 11:43:12 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I didn't know that torpedoes were counted separately - I that a plane taking off with a torpedo counted as a torpedo and a sortie.


I thought it consumed both; but the snapshot is there; Indomitable had been at sea without any form of replenishment since the attacks

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/31/2015 12:43:58 AM >

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 3:17:38 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I didn't know that torpedoes were counted separately - I that a plane taking off with a torpedo counted as a torpedo and a sortie.


I thought it consumed both; but the snapshot is there; Indomitable had been at sea without any form of replenishment since the attacks

That is a head scratcher - it looks like Indomitable has somehow replenished sorties (the word I meant when I referred to Ops Points).
Maybe they transferred bombs from other carriers by high line!

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 4:16:34 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Good news is that I keep always around a month of past turns:

So I went back 3 days, before doing any rebase, just after the battles:

You can see that the sorties are at full while the torpedoes depleted.

Do you think this is a bug? should we ask if this is WAD?





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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 5:38:28 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Good news is that I keep always around a month of past turns:

So I went back 3 days, before doing any rebase, just after the battles:

You can see that the sorties are at full while the torpedoes depleted.

Do you think this is a bug? should we ask if this is WAD?





I can think of one possibility - on the last replenishment the port was too small or could not supply torpedoes, so the ship sailed without any, and the sorties were never used because the planes are all set to training! Don't roll your eyes , people have done that (but I'll never confess! ).
You can check the air unit settings quickly and then check the combat reports to see if there is any evidence that Indomitable's squadrons were in the fray. Sometimes weather keeps one ship from launching while others do, if they are in different TFs.

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 1:35:49 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		It was not the case because this was the RN carriers' baptism of fire. They never used torpedoes before

Moreover, I have the turns before each battle, and I can see how they looked before the battle and after each day

You can see it here:




May 18 (before engagements)
Formidable was at 45/45 torpedoes, 153/ 153 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/45 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

May 19
Formidable was at 45/29 torpedoes, 153/ 153 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/16 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

May 20
Formidable was at 45/21 torpedoes, 153/ 149 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/5 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

May 21
Formidable was at 45/21 torpedoes, 153/ 138 sorties
Indomitable was at 45/0 torpedoes, 225/ 225 sorties

I ordered Formidable to attack with bombs on the last day... this explains why the sorties got down, while Indomitable kept using torpedoes

Looks like you either expend torpedoes or sorties, but not both!





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< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 3/31/2015 2:55:55 PM >

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 3:23:53 PM   
witpqs


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Status: offline 		My suspicion is that it is WAD, but I've never heard of it before this so it might pay to pose the question.

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RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 5:57:09 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		so the "sorties" line reflect bomb ordinance, while the torp line tracks torpedo ordinance?

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Post #: 592
RE: 7th day: resting time - 3/31/2015 6:19:12 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

so the "sorties" line reflect bomb ordinance, while the torp line tracks torpedo ordinance?

So it would appear, but there should have been an AVGAS cost to the TB sortie, just as fighters that accompany a strike use sorties and CAP fighters use a portion of a sortie each to account for the fuel. I think the question should be put in the war room for the developers to explain what the design is.

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8th day: IJN submarines - 4/3/2015 1:43:52 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Both PresterJohn and I went on vacations this week; I am in Vegas! this of course meant that turns are a lot slower

But anyway, I finally got the turn, and it was almost good, as up until the end there was little to report.. however, submarine disaster; CV Indomitable, the "healthy one" that recently recieved the Fulmar/ Swordfish reinforcements, got torpedoes twice by I-164

This submarine tried earlier and got hit by DD Norman, it however managed to tried again and scored 2 crippling shots. I really hate IJN submarines I can have 10 submarines close to the enemy and they do nothing, while IJN subs are unstoppable really

Since only Hermes is now active, this will now be called "Operation sauve qui peut". All carrier TFs are moving at full speed to either Diego Garcia of Addu, they will unload planes, and then get off-map. Diego Garcia will have to act as "unsinkable carrier".. problem is it is still only level 1.95 I really hope it will reach level 2 tomorrow

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Diego Garcia at 17,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-164, hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Norman

SS I-164 is sighted by escort
DD Norman attacking submerged sub ....
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Diego Garcia at 17,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-164

Allied Ships
CV Indomitable, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
DD Norman

Ammo storage explosion on CV Indomitable
SS I-164 launches 4 torpedoes at CV Indomitable
I-164 diving deep ....
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Norman fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub





< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/3/2015 2:46:44 PM >

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RE: 8th day: IJN submarines - 4/3/2015 2:19:11 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
while IJN subs are unstoppable really

Ammo storage explosion on CV Indomitable



Oh sh**. Hate those @#$!$$! Jap subs.

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RE: 8th day: IJN submarines - 4/3/2015 6:25:17 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline 		Tough break on Indomitable - will she make it to port??

Bigger question is why your subs aren't making attacks. No necessarily successful attacks, but attacking none the less...
So, questions:
- are you using patrol zones? Think this helps reducing detection.
- what is the detect level on your subs? Move if detected.
- sub leaders aggressive?
- sub react level set to 1?

I noticed you have one TF with many subs - my hunch is that if this TF is detected, all the subs in the TF suffer.

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RE: 8th day: IJN submarines - 4/3/2015 10:19:00 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		It should arrive to Diego Garcia next turn (at full speed), unless there is another "incident"

And regarding submarines, it is not that I am not having attacks, it is just that due to bad luck the attacks had being failures or against convoys; while his are very effective always

- I am using patrol zones; although I might be keeping the zones too close (example attached)

- Right now looks like zero; although to be fair, since the last few turns he has disbanded all targets to Pt Blair

- sub leaders: attached in the example is the typical Dutch captain; I have tried to put better skippers for "S", Dutch or British submarines, I am not bothering yet with fleet boats due to torpedo fiasco.
Also, "best" Dutch skippers does not necesarily means "good"

And no, other than transport missions, or moving from west coast to PH, I always keep 1 sub per TF; I even tried 2-subs but I didn't see any main difference and went back to 1 per TF




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< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/3/2015 11:20:29 PM >

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finally the turn arrives - 4/7/2015 11:49:48 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
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From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		PresterJohn's vacations are over, and I finally got the turn back!!

Not a lot to report:
- Diego Garcia was mined. This is no longer an issue as I decided to skip it completely and just retreat directly to Mombasa (I will expand later)
- TK Esso Richmond lost torpedoed near the west coast... it was a very nice, tanker.. will be missed
- DD Vendetta sunk by 4 IJN destroyers
- Several air battles over Chungking: 9 Helen, 7 Oscars, 5 H81A3, 3 Lancers destroyed... this is bad news; as attrition will make him prevail on the long run
- BB Royal Sovereign is still used as bombing practice; it received more than 8 hits in total, but no penetration hits. Damage is so severe it should sink tomorrow


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Post #: 598
RE: finally the turn arrives - 4/8/2015 1:46:28 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		Damned I-164 really screwed everything!!

with Indomitable in working conditions and full of planes, I could had sunk his task forces

Without Indomitable, I can only run and hope for the best. This is tomorrow's plan:

I have a dozen Fulmars and a few Albacores on naval attack on Diego Garcia; I hope they do some damage, but the Fulmars are not trained in naval attack.

The only advantage I have is his lack of naval search capabilities; probably only short ranged FPs. and with some good luck weather will ground them




Tomorrow will be an interesting turn.. I hope it doesn't end too painful... Most likely scenario is Hermes and AKs going down, everybody else running away

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< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/8/2015 3:25:58 AM >

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9th day: Damned submarines scored again :( - 4/9/2015 12:19:08 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Status: offline 		Surprisingly the big enemy TF failed to get anything; was it low on ammo??

Anyway, the f-ing submarines kept doing wonders for Japan; this time it was Hermes turn they also put BB Royal Sovereign out of its misery; this was kind of expected, as Royal Sovereign was already a walking dead

I really hate Japanese submarines; they managed to put 4 torpedoes in 3 carriers in the last week!! but this was a good lesson; once the USN comes into play I will have some ASW TFs following carriers. And certainly it makes sense to avoid moving them too much until I have better ASW capabilities.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 27, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Little Andaman at 40,60

Japanese Ships
SS I-32

Allied Ships
BB Royal Sovereign, Torpedo hits 3, heavy damage

SS I-32 launches 6 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Diego Garcia at 12,62

Japanese Ships
SS I-160

Allied Ships
CVL Hermes, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Vampire

Ammo storage explosion on CVL Hermes
SS I-160 launches 6 torpedoes at CVL Hermes
I-160 diving deep ....
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Vampire fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 4/9/2015 1:19:57 AM >

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 600
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