RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-B Scen28

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RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 5:43:33 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

If the allies advance along multiple fronts, or along a broad front, i.e. such as the whole DEI, the Japanese must try to counterattack. I am not sure about a "Kentai Kessen," after early 43, but a counterattack of significant intensity. ...

If the allies try to come at Japan from only 1 avenue of attack, however, I do not think a large-scale couter-offensive is necessary.

Fair enough - great points.

I cannot actually say I have read an AAR where the Allies are limited to one corridor or even a narrow one; most everything I have followed has broad and multiple avenues of attack.

Disclaimer... I have only been around here a little over a year so I am only slightly more than a rookie.

But even on a broad basis advance I think this game has taught me a higher appreciation of the Kentail Kessen strategy / school of thought.

I was frankly very dismissive of Japanese Strategy as an amateur historian; now when I see recreated and personally recreate the situation I understand the sheer despair when your intelligence and estimates demonstrate that:

1) this time the Allies brought 4 Inf Divisions support and supply in 60 Ships and 10 Carriers

2) Next time they will bring even more...

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1621

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 5:45:19 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Macclan5, funny you should mention the right flank. Over time, I've watched a drawdown at Sorong. I have a task force headed that way now. I also have some paras prepped for the dot base that is adjacent. I will be attempting this without air cover. I know that Sorong's airfield is damaged, and has been for awhile. There is a nearby size 2 airfield on the east coast. A bit of a risk. This whole area has been quiet. I'm wearing down the enemy at Boela, slowly.

Taking Sorong will solidify the right flank, and make it possible to move to the east side of Mindanao, or towards Babeldaop. If I choose.

Hanging in on your every tactic

Your AAR is most informative, interesting... I really enjoy that I am able to put myself in your shoes and say...Hmmmm I bet he is doing X next

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1622

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 7:11:55 PM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

If the allies advance along multiple fronts, or along a broad front, i.e. such as the whole DEI, the Japanese must try to counterattack. I am not sure about a "Kentai Kessen," after early 43, but a counterattack of significant intensity. ...

If the allies try to come at Japan from only 1 avenue of attack, however, I do not think a large-scale couter-offensive is necessary.

Fair enough - great points.

I cannot actually say I have read an AAR where the Allies are limited to one corridor or even a narrow one; most everything I have followed has broad and multiple avenues of attack.

Disclaimer... I have only been around here a little over a year so I am only slightly more than a rookie.

But even on a broad basis advance I think this game has taught me a higher appreciation of the Kentail Kessen strategy / school of thought.

I was frankly very dismissive of Japanese Strategy as an amateur historian; now when I see recreated and personally recreate the situation I understand the sheer despair when your intelligence and estimates demonstrate that:

1) this time the Allies brought 4 Inf Divisions support and supply in 60 Ships and 10 Carriers

2) Next time they will bring even more...

The strategy was based upon Mahan's study of naval warfare. Mahan was the primary strategist of naval warfare for the 19th and 20th centuries: the naval Clausewitz. Whereas land warfare can often be a game of manuever and attrition, the same tactics that work in a land war are not as effective in a naval war. Destroying large numbers of naval assets quickly has always been the key to winning a naval war, since the time of the Roman-Carthaginian conflict. Rome simply does not win that conflict without a "Kentai Kessen:" two Kentai Kessens, in fact (one of which destroyed the Roman navy as well). The reason that the great battle is so important in naval conflict is that new fleets cannot be raised quickly like new armies. The ability to "follow up" a large naval victory is much greater because the victor has more time to exploit the victory. Also, because naval conflict is not centered on lines and is more fluid than land conflict, rear areas have never been secure while the enemy possesses any type of fleet. So the complete and immediate destruction of the enemy fleet is the key to all naval strategy. This was Mahan's theory, and there is much to it.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 4/7/2017 7:19:27 PM >

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 1623

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/10/2017 12:28:06 AM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

11 Oct 43

Most troops have already landed at Dadjangas. Some continue to land today, along with supply.

Sub Seadragon fires 2 torpedoes at big tanker TK Gen'yo Maru near Cam Ranh Bay, but misses. Sub Hake fires 2 torpedoes at big tanker Huzisan Maru near Cam Ranh Bay, but misses. Bad luck today.

Troops start to land at Cotabato. No interference here either. All that is here is I/81st Naval Guard Unit. Cotabato will be taken today by the 18th British Division, along with armor, engineers, AA, and XIV US Corps. A followup division will land in a couple of days, prepped for Cagayan. Carriers continue to cover Cotabato and Dadjangas.

11 P-38s sweep Cagayan, downing a few planes and losing a couple. Another 22 P-38s sweep, doing about the same. 5 B-17s then bomb Cagayan's airfield, doing almost no damage but destroying a couple of planes on the ground. 8 B-24s bomb, doing moderate damage and destroying about 5 planes on the ground. Finally, 34 carrier Hellcats sweep, downing about 10 planes for no loss. Nice to come in last, especially after the bombers.

Sorong is invaded. The landing occurs near the end of the day, so little is unloaded on day one. No APAs are being used here, just the standard xAPs. No interference today. Hope that continues, as there's no friendly CAP here.

I note that 143 bombers are spotted at Manila.

No turn from Walker until Wednesday at the earliest. I've plotted my normal work on the turn, but am holding the turn until Tuesday. I'll work on pilot training and other miscellaneous planning between now and Tuesday.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 1624

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/12/2017 4:32:56 AM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

12 Oct 43

Landing continues at Sorong. No interference. A couple of LSTs take some minor damage on the rocks. Using xAPs here, there's still troops to unload.

Landing also continues at Cotabato.

Near Taihoku, just to the northeast of Formosa, in the one shallow hex by itself, sub Tuna gets pounded by E boats, taking 2 depth charge hits and one mortar hit. Damage is just moderate though, and the sub should make it home.

Near Swatow, sub Sturgeon finds a big tanker convoy, and gets a torpedo hit on TK Tokuhei Maru. It's carrying oil and burning nicely now.

35 carrier Hellcats sweep Cagayan, and find a weaker CAP than recently spotted there. About 24 Zeros and 12 Oscars. Lots of enemy destroyed for little loss. Each day I've used a different rested fighter squadron for a sweep. While the enemy is attrited and tired, I bring fresh fighters. 8 B24s then bomb, doing light damage. Then 16 P-38s sweep, but get no result.

At Sorong, the 16th LRP Bde has mostly unloaded, but could use a day's rest to prepare, so no attack today. The attack at Sansapor, the adjacent dot base, turned out to be interesting when my paras dropped in. There was something there, which was unexpected.

Ground combat at Sansapor (83,107)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 278 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 19

Defending force 249 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15

Allied adjusted assault: 16

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 16 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Sansapor !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), leaders(+), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
68 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
503rd Parachute Rgt /1

Defending units:
I/84th Naval Guard Unit

The enemy was penalized for op mode. Did the unit just arrive? Or was it forgotten long ago? I'll never know. Regardless, the base is taken.

Cotabato is easily taken, destroying the tiny naval guard unit there. Troops head toward Cagayan.

And in the hex west of Malang, the Allies are successful. Malang is now isolated.

Ground combat at 54,105 (near Madioen)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 13496 troops, 120 guns, 409 vehicles, Assault Value = 561

Defending force 8030 troops, 61 guns, 31 vehicles, Assault Value = 83

Allied adjusted assault: 233

Japanese adjusted defense: 53

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2832 casualties reported
Squads: 85 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 121 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 17 (13 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 24 (22 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 4
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
86 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
50th Tank Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
17th Indian Division

Defending units:
38th Division
8th Tank Regiment
Southwest Area Fleet
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Units here will use the roads to move west, so they need to move back north first. No point in chasing the enemy through the bad terrain.

US carriers will move near Zamboanga, where invasion shipping is gathering. The next set of invasions is imminent.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1625

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/12/2017 5:33:44 AM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

I'm surprised at the lack of a defense on Mindanao. Mindanao is a very defensible position and redoubt: certainly moreso than southern Luzon. There are several good defensive positions with airfields that interlock: Surigao, Zamboanga, Cagayan, and Davao. Many of these are x3: all are at least x2 and there are good ports at Surigao, Davao, and Zamboanga for retreat. As the Japanese, I would defend Mindanao, with sufficient resources that if the allies chose to bypass it, I would make it a permanent thorn in their side.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1626

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 2:19:17 AM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Northern Mindano is defended. Davao is defended to some degree also. I landed at a couple of weakly held bases. Walker has had to worry about everything from Java to Sumatra to Borneo to the Philippines. He may be having trouble trying to garrison everything. I don't think he can.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1627

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 2:21:33 AM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

13 Oct 43

A good day for the Japanese. Risks are taken frequently. Sometimes there's a price to pay.

Landing continued at Sorong.

North of Japan proper, sub Cisco spots an xAKL task force, but elects not to engage.

North of Zamboanga, US subchasers pummel RO-112. The sub may not survive. It's obvious that Walker continues to use his subs in a barrier CAP manner, layering the approaches to where I may be heading next.

Near Pescadores, in a deep water hex, sub Sailfish spots a task force with xAKs and AK. 2 torpedoes hit xAK Sydney Maru, and set it on fire. It was carrying oil. Consider it sunk.

Near Laoag, sub Skipjack fires 2 torpedoes at tiny TK Shozui Maru, but misses.

During the night, 2 enemy task forces move into Sorong. Combat as follows:

First engagement:
Japanese Ships
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, Shell hits 2
DD Shimakaze
DD Suzunami, Shell hits 1
DD Hayanami, Shell hits 1
DD Oshio

Allied Ships
DD Ringgold
DD Schroeder, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Spence
DD Terry
DD Thatcher
DD Wadsworth

Second engagement:
Japanese Ships
CA Furutaka
CA Kako
DD Shimakaze
DD Suzunami
DD Hayanami
DD Oshio

Allied Ships
SC-635, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
SC-636, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
SC-640, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
SC-641, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

Third engagement:
Japanese Ships
CL Yura
CL Kiso
DD Fujinami
DD Michishio
DD Shigure

Allied Ships
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Wilson, Shell hits 1
DD Stuart, Shell hits 3
LST-16, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
LST-17, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
LST-18, Shell hits 21, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST-22, Shell hits 2
LST-24, Shell hits 1
xAP Alice Moller, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAP Empire Kumari, Shell hits 11, heavy fires
xAP Kutsang, Shell hits 20, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAP Tambua, Shell hits 24, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Limerick, Shell hits 17, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
820 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 30 destroyed, 68 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Most of the damage to the transports was done before the ships were underway. De Ruyter and the 2 destroyers didn't land a single shell. Several LSTs and xAPs had just left the area, having completely unloaded the day before. The stragglers were left, and left there too long. The base will still be captured, and friendly airpower will then be able to cover this area.

Dutch sub KXIII hit 3 mines at Merak, and sinks. I'm very careful with my subs. I knew that there were mines at Merak, and didn't have any subs patrolling there. But KXIII was on the wrong side of Sumatra when I reassigned most of the Dutch subs' home base to Soerbaja, and I missed that KXIII would be transiting Merak.

31 carrier Hellcats swept Cagayan. About 20 enemy planes destroyed, for the loss of a couple of Hellcats. Cagayan now has just a few damaged planes now. Adjacent Butuan now has over 70 fighters. I'll leave it along for now, while I concentrate on action not on Mindanao.

About 10 B-25s bomb Manokwari's airfield. They've been doing so for a few days, hoping to damage the airfield enough to keep Walker from using it to support Sorong. The airfield damage was in the 30's, but it wasn't enough. About 30 fighters are there now, and they ambushed the Mitchells, downing about 6.

Allied units attacked at mountainous Malang, at 1 to 2 odds, and the forts stubbornly remain at 3. About 200 enemy casualties, and 300 friendly. I'll rest and continue this attritional battle. The fight is wearing down the US 41st Infantry Division, and it will be of little use after this battle is over. My choice is to wear down the enemy or move to control all of the hexsides and isolate the enemy. But Malang is a base hex. I don't want Walker airlifting everything out during a prolonged siege.

Americal Division attacks again at Boela, getting just 1 to 4 odds. About 300 casualties for each side. Americal is now over half disrupted. I'll rest a couple of days and repeat. Another long attritional battle.

As for today, the Marine division at Zamboanga did not load completely. Most of the support and vehicles did not load yet. I'll load for another day, and then head to the next invasion locations. US carriers move a bit but stay adjacent to Zamboanga.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by apbarog -- 4/13/2017 2:23:43 AM >

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1628

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 2:26:35 AM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Northern Mindano is defended. Davao is defended to some degree also. I landed at a couple of weakly held bases. Walker has had to worry about everything from Java to Sumatra to Borneo to the Philippines. He may be having trouble trying to garrison everything. I don't think he can.

Hence the advantage of widening your avenue of attack through Java. Nevertheless, Mindanao is well positioned to support all these areas really is the central junction of this whole region. If I defend anything at all here as Japan, I defend Mindanao with sufficient supplies to create a redoubt if the allies bypass it.

Southern Luzon is indefensible, but at the same time, the allies are vulnerable there without Mindanao. If they bypass Mindanao for southern Luzon, their troops and bases will be in open terrain, with the Japanese troops and bases in the rugged terrain of northern Luzon and Mindanao. Small SCTFs or bombardment TFs of CLs and DDs present a real problem to bases in clear terrain in southern Luzon, especially if those TFs can come from several directions and use paths of approach on both sides of the Luzon.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1629

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 1:31:53 PM

jwolf

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline

I don't think those Japanese victories will stop you, or even delay things much, but they did succeed in making your operations more expensive.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1630

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 3:34:30 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
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Honestly, this has no effect at all. I'm about to capture Sorong. Losing a few xAPs and SCs makes no difference. I've lost few during the war so far. Losing APAs is a different matter.

Speaking of APAs, I forgot to mention APA American Legion. It was involved in the original Java invasion, and was badly damaged, with FLOT over 80. It had been stuck at Timoeka since then. I moved an ARD to Timoeka, and an AR, but the repair was painfully slow. Over a week per point. So last week I took a chance and tried to move it to Darwin. It could only move one hex per day. I had repaired all of its SYS damage, so I thought that it might work. It made it to two hexes from Darwin, where it sank. I know that it would have been out of the war for a considerable time, but I do enjoy trying to save the badly damaged ships. This was a case of losing a valuable ship.

Remember CV Lexington? It was damaged about the same time, spent some time in Australian ports repairing SYS damage, and then slowly traveled to the US. It's still on the West Coast, and has about 30 days of repair to go. But it's a survivor. Just one CVE lost so far. No CVs or CVLs lost for the good guys.

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1631

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 3:53:44 PM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

No CVs or CVLs lost for the good guys.

Japan has lost no CVs or CVLs?

This is a very remarkable game, and you have done an admirable job. I was thinking how much ground you have taken in 1943. If this were Oct. 1944, you would be on track for a marginal victory. To have done so much by 1943 can only be considered a decisive allied victory- no matter the score. Barring disproportionate losses, the allies do not have a numerical advantage in anything until early 1943. So with only 8 or 9 months of the advantage, you have taken back 50% or more of Japan's early war gains.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 4/13/2017 4:00:50 PM >

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1632

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 4:18:01 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

The good guys are whatever side I'm playing! :)

I'm showing that Japan has lost carriers Kaga, Akagi, Shokaku, Hiryu, Soryu, and Junyo. BB Nagato is listed sunk also, but it could have been just badly damaged in the August raid of Babeldaop. Japan has lost 6 heavy cruisers and 6 light cruisers, and 25 DDs.

The Allies have lost no CVs or CVLs. One CVE was lost. One fast US BB lost, 4 slow US BBs lost (one at PH), along with BBs Warspite and Revenge. One US CA, one Brit CA, and one Australian CA lost. 3 US CLs lost, 2 Dutch CLs, and 2 Brit CLs. 10 US DDs lost, 2 Australian DDs, 2 Brit DDs, 2 Dutch DDs, and one French DD.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1633

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/13/2017 4:20:55 PM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

The good guys are whatever side I'm playing! :)

I'm showing that Japan has lost carriers Kaga, Akagi, Shokaku, Hiryu, Soryu, and Junyo. BB Nagato is listed sunk also, but it could have been just badly damaged in the August raid of Babeldaop. Japan has lost 6 heavy cruisers and 6 light cruisers, and 25 DDs.

The Allies have lost no CVs or CVLs. One CVE was lost. One fast US BB lost, 4 slow US BBs lost (one at PH), along with BBs Warspite and Revenge. One US CA, one Brit CA, and one Australian CA lost. 3 US CLs lost, 2 Dutch CLs, and 2 Brit CLs. 10 US DDs lost, 2 Australian DDs, 2 Brit DDs, 2 Dutch DDs, and one French DD.

In an earlier PBEM (not the one that I am playing now against 821Bobo), the allies lost more than this in the first week of the war... jajaja.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1634

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 12:53:08 AM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

He lost 5/6th of the original KB, which explains why you have had the green light to move the Allied cause ahead by a year.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1635

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 2:38:53 AM

apbarog

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Status: offline

14 Oct 43

A good day for US sub Balao. It spots an xAK task force near Phuket, Thailand, and hits xAK Izumo Maru with 2 torpedoes. Sinking sounds. Later in the night it engages the same task force, and hits xAK Akasi Maru with 2 torpedoes. Again, sinking sounds. Nice work.

Sub Barb, near Biak, spots one of the Sorong task forces retiring to the ENE. The enemy appears to be heading towards Saipan, not Truk or Babeldaop. Saipan is a huge base, with over 100 ships spotted in port recently. But it's a long way from Sorong. Interesting. Saipan is way out of position to contest anything that I have planned.

At Kusaie Island, southeast of Truk, 3 US destroyers move in at high speed. A couple of ships had been spotted here. Destroyers Chauncey, John Rodgers, and Stevens finds and sinks xAK Atlantic Maru, and probably sinks patrol boat Nanrei Maru. Just a nuisance raid in a quiet sector.

At Christman Island in the Indian Ocean, a task force had been spotted. I suspect that a part of an infantry division may be getting evacuated. I sent sub Sargo in to investigate, and it got hammered by destroyer Mutsuki in the shallow water. Sargo should make it to Denpassar and survive.

Near San Jose, south of Palawan, RO-40 is hit several times by US subchasers. It may sink. Subchasers here are working the enemy sub barrier CAP. Lots of big friendly ships moving through the area today.

Sorong is attacked. Casualties are favorable, with unfavorable odds and forts. It will fall, just not right away.

Ground combat at Sorong (82,107)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4570 troops, 26 guns, 76 vehicles, Assault Value = 191

Defending force 4126 troops, 22 guns, 45 vehicles, Assault Value = 65

Allied adjusted assault: 51

Japanese adjusted defense: 83

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
421 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 11 (4 destroyed, 7 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
138 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 20 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled

Assaulting units:
18th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
16th LRP Brigade
1st AmphTrac Engineer Battalion
27th Base Maint Engineer Battalion

Defending units:
Kure 2nd SNLF
33rd Infantry Rgt /1
54th Construction Battalion
110th Ship Eng Coy
7th Air Div /1
109th JAAF AF Bn /1

Today is the day for the next big invasions. Palawan is the target. Troops will unload at both bases on the island. Enemy defenses are unknown but believed to be light. A division plus support will hit each base. Carriers support. We're getting close to Manila, and can't rule out a big response from there. Over 150 bombers spotted at Manila. APAs will unload as quickly as possible and retire to Balikpapan and Samarinda, where the troops for the next invasions await. The next jump is even bigger, and more dangerous. But one thing at a time.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 1636

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 6:40:11 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

15 Oct 43

Active US subchasers hunt between Zamboanga and Palawan. Several RO subs are hit. Later, more hits are achieved by carrier air ASW.

Near Laoag, sub Sawfish gets a torpedo hit on TK Nisshin Maru #2. Probably not enough to sink the tanker, as it was empty.

After a long quiet period in the Solomons, I'd noticed a drawdown in enemy fighter strength at Rabaul. I try my first fighter sweep here, and it goes badly. 22 P-40Ks sweep, and find 42 Oscars, 42 Nicks, and 9 Tonys. I didn't expect the Warhawks to do well, but wanted to mix up the fighters and altitudes. The Warhawks went first, and most were destroyed, downing no enemy planes. 22 P-47s went next, and did well, downing about 15 enemy and losing about 4.

Then the real action began.

Lots of enemy land based air attacked the invasion shipping at Taytay in the morning, and, to a lesser extent, the carriers covering the landings one hex away in the afternoon.

Round 1:
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 13
D4Y1 Judy x 18
G4M1 Betty x 18

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 5
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
FM-1 Wildcat x 19
F6F-3 Hellcat x 120

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 5 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA Cornwall

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp

Round 2:
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 22
B6N1 Jill x 27
G4M1 Betty x 44

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5
FM-1 Wildcat x 12
F6F-3 Hellcat x 89

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 27 destroyed, 5 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CA Cornwall
CA Minneapolis
DD Guest
CA Canberra, Torpedo hits 1 (FLOT in the 30's)
DD Cushing
DD Walke

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
5 x B6N1 Jill bombing from 12000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Round 3:
Japanese aircraft
D4Y1 Judy x 18

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 1
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
FM-1 Wildcat x 8
F6F-3 Hellcat x 69

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y1 Judy: 9 destroyed

No Allied losses

In the afternoon, the carriers are targetted. Round 4:
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
A6M5 Zero x 3
B6N1 Jill x 2
G4M1 Betty x 22

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
FM-1 Wildcat x 14
F6F-3 Hellcat x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
B6N1 Jill: 1 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

Round 5:
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 56
B5N2 Kate x 18

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
FM-1 Wildcat x 22
F6F-3 Hellcat x 203

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 6 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Round 6:
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 11
P1Y1 Frances x 25

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 9
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
FM-1 Wildcat x 19
F6F-3 Hellcat x 194

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 4 destroyed
P1Y1 Frances: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVE Sangamon

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P1Y1 Frances bombing from 15000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Round 7:
Japanese aircraft
B6N1 Jill x 15
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 21

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 4
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
FM-1 Wildcat x 9
F6F-3 Hellcat x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N1 Jill: 6 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
AKA Centarus
DD Guest
CA Cornwall

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B6N1 Jill bombing from 12000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Round 8:
Japanese aircraft
B6N1 Jill x 13

Allied aircraft
Sea Hurricane Ib x 6
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
FM-1 Wildcat x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 155

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N1 Jill: 7 destroyed

No Allied losses

Total enemy air losses are about 250. Total US carrier air losses are about 15. One Allied cruiser moderately damaged but will survive. With US carriers 8 hexes from Manila, and all carrier air restricted to range 7, I didn't waste any naval strikes going to Manila, and into a very heavy CAP. The mission was to protect the landings, and that was successful. The Marines completely unloaded in the afternoon at Puerto Princess, and almost completely unloaded at Taytay. The bases should fall quickly, and all shipping will leave immediately. APAs will head back to Borneo and load for the next big invasion, Luzon.

Back on Java, the 5th Chinese Corp and the 50th Tank Brigade capture Madioen, now defended with weak remnants of units defeated earlier elsewhere.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1637

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 6:46:53 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Region Summary: Burma

The Allied offensive, however limited, has taken Cox's Bazar, and the capture of Akyab is imminent. The offensive will pause there. Chinese divisions moved to threaten Myitkyina awhile ago. Walker reinforced here with a reserve that I knew from SigInt was in the Burma plains. The reinforcements weren't sent to Akyab, which was my objective.

Air power has destroyed most of the oil at Magwe. Enemy fighters have generally been withdrawn from the area. Burma was set to go quiet after the capture of Akyab.

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1638

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 6:51:16 PM

jwolf

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline

quote:

APAs will head back to Borneo and load for the next big invasion, Luzon.

I see you don't believe in wasting any time!

Great job by your carrier CAP at Palawan. Looks like you will invade Luzon about a year ahead of historical!

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1639

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:02:41 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Thanks jwolf. The challenging part was getting all of the units to Borneo without hopelessly overstacking Balikpapan. At one point, I had 120,000 troops there, when the stacking limit is 90,000. Samarinda has about 50,000 now and is increasing. It's limit is 100,000 I believe.

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1640

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:03:25 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Region Summary: China

China has been quiet for a long time. Walker made some limited efforts at bombing China industry. I responded by bringing in Chinese, Brit, and US fighter squadrons.

Supply is the name of the game in Allied China. I've managed to keep most units in supply, but supply is low. Chungking has about 12,000 supply. Some bases, like Kukong, have none. I'm flying lots of C-47s from Ledo, but when I see thunderstorms, I rest them. And there are lots of thunderstorm days.

The most interesting development with China, for me, was the 5th Chinese Corp. At the beginning of the war, this corp is broken down into many sub units. These sub units are some of the very few Chinese units that are not permanently restricted. (Remember, this is a DBB game. May be different than a stock game.) I spent the political points on these sub units as quickly as I could. Many had to march clear across China, but I got all of them to and through Burma before Burma was cut off. One sub unit remained, and it was able to be completely extracted by C-47s. All sub units then traveled to India, combined as a corp, and then rested and took on reinforcements. For a long time.

As I had decided not to make a major push through Burma, I chose to send this corp with many other units to Australia. Moving a Chinese unit out of theater was my action that made me most uncomfortable in the game. It didn't seem to fit a reasonable type of game that I like to play. But I certainly wanted to use this monster, and it wasn't going to be in Burma. I justified this to myself by promising that this corp would eventually be used in an amphibious landing on the Chinese mainland. As such, although currently being used on Java, it is prepping for Hong Kong. A direct landing on Hong Kong. I couldn't justify what I did with this corp to Walker, but I do so now. I thought an amphibious liberation of Hong Kong by a Chinese unit would be interesting to see. I may have abused history by using this corp in Java though.

The Hong Kong invasion would be timed at or about the time of a Formosa invasion.

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1641

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:10:20 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Region Summary: Java

Malang is isolated but stubbornly defended. I was trying to reduce the defenses with a US division, but losses are high, and the division is getting wrecked. I decided to switch plans and move units to control the hexsides, and keep just enough units there to hold the siege.

Madoien was just captured. The next position of strength is the dot base in the woods west of Tjepoe. The enemy tank division is there but may be withdrawing. Ships in small task forces continue to come and go at Batavia. It is unknown which direction troops are heading. Every base taken by the Allies is a future bomber base in range of Palembang and Singapore.

I'll take what I can capture here, but the Chinese corp and 2 Indian divisions are slated for landings in China, and will be removed from the line for this when appropriate, even if all of Java is not cleared at that point.

I'm already making use of Soerabaja's shipyard. Mostly for a sub or two. Nothing big. Don't want to draw too much attention to the port.

I believe that enemy troops at Christmas Island (IO) are being removed.

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1642

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:14:22 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Region Summary: The Marshalls and Gilberts

Since the capture of Tabiteuea long ago, this area has remained quiet. Limited US recon has shown weak enemy defenses at Tarawa and Makin. I bomb these islands once in a long while. I could have cleaned up this area but decided to just skip it. Going around it to supply Australia hasn't been a problem. (This is a DBB-B game. If it were a DBB-C game, things might be different)

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1643

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:19:49 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Region Summary: The Solomons and New Guinea

Mostly quiet. I just swept Rabaul for the first time, and there's still 100 enemy fighters there. Down from 200 though.

I've extracted lots of units from this area. The only division in the area is at Milne Bay. Earlier plans included an invasion of Kavieng and the base just east of Rabaul, with the hope of isolating Rabaul completely, but not invading it. I cancelled this plan and sent the divisions to Darwin, where they were reassigned other targets.

Small US units were on the move in the mountains of New Guinea to keep the enemy units isolated. Movement southwest out of Madang had been noted, and all Walker had to do to free his units was control the hexside of the contested hex west of Wau.

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1644

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:29:12 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Region Summary: The Philippines

Landings on Palawan just occurred and will be successful. Enemy air at Manila has been reduced with the unsuccessful strikes that just occurred. Enemy units on the northwest part of Mindanao are being isolated. 2 divisions at and near Cotabato will move to Cagayan. A division is moving toward Davao from Dadjangas.

Landings at Batangas and Lucena, south of Manila, are next. A division plus lots of support is prepped for both, and other units will followup, including 2 other divisions set for Manila. This fight will not be quick. Manila already has over 40,000 men, and will certainly be where the line is held. The island of Busuanga will be taken, with its size 3 port. It could be useful for damaged ships.

As such, I have 2 divisions and support prepped for Bataan. This will then threaten Manila from the north. Clark may or may not be reinforced at this point.

Then I'll make another landing at Lingayen, northwest of Clark. A division and lots of support are prepping.

I don't know if this will be enough to conquer Luzon, but it will certainly cause chaos for the defense of Manila. Manila is the objective. All of Luzon will follow.

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1645

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 7:35:43 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

Here's the points page.

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(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1646

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 8:07:04 PM

apbarog

Posts: 3769
Joined: 5/23/2002
Status: offline

And now the game must end.

Walker and I have discussed the game situation, and have mutually agreed to end the game. As I've said before, playing this game for me is all about the journey, not the destination. It's always a sad day when a game ends, regardless of who "wins".

We started this game in August 2014. It's been a fun ride. This was my first game in AE as the Allies, at least one that went on longer than a month. I learned a lot from the experience. I learned that, for me, playing as the Allies is much easier on an emotional level than playing as the Japanese. Losing at battle or a carrier isn't desirable, but as the Allies, it probably doesn't matter in the long run. With decent play, the Allies are going to "win". As the Japanese, it's more emotionally taxing to lose a battle or carrier. Your assets are limited. You have to make the most of them while you have them, and when they can have an impact. It's a very different mindset.

At this point in our war, the Japanese are in a very bad situation, and it was about to get worse. Allied subs, based at Balikpapan, are roaming the South China Sea. Tankers with oil and fuel for the Home Islands are being sunk regularly. With Palawan about to fall, the South China Sea will be wide open to Allied ships. Getting fuel and oil to Japan is about to get much more difficult. And that is if there is any oil and fuel to ship. With bases opening up on Java, Palembang is threatened. Northern Borneo is already close to Allied bases. Not a good outlook for the Japanese.

As I just posted, Luzon was going to be the next target, followed by Formosa and a landing at Hong Kong and possibly Chinese bases just north of Formosa. The Hong Kong landing's purpose was going to be to open up a supply pipeline to the rest of China. Then the troops can upgrade and reinforce, something that I've not done due to supply considerations. The associated landings east of Hong Kong were not to be exploited. They would have been just to create a threat, and hoped to cause a general withdrawl to the east. Troops were prepping already for all of these targets.

I will allow Walker to read this thread shortly. He may post here also, if he chooses. We could continue this discussion and maybe learn a few things why things were done as they were, and what we were thinking at certain points.

I'd like to learn if the Japanese divisional losses in India and New Guinea had any effect on setting up defense elsewhere. Was there a unit shortage for where Walker would have liked to defend?

Finally, I'd like to thank Walker for his dedication to the game. I always hope for a "gentleman's game", where the game engine isn't exploited, and actions taken are fairly reasonable. Not a duplication of history, but an alternate reasonable conduct of the war. Something where I can still relate the game to actual events, despite the events varying from history. Walker has always been considerate and dependable and is an ideal person to play the game. When you make a long term commitment, and easily spend over 1,000 hours playing, you want someone like Walker as your opponent.

Thanks to all of you who have posted here, and all of you who just read the thread. I hope that my day-to-day postings have given some incite into how I play the game, good and bad. There's always more to learn, and I'll do so again with another game. Probably sooner rather than later.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1647

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 8:53:20 PM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

And now the game must end.

Walker and I have discussed the game situation, and have mutually agreed to end the game. As I've said before, playing this game for me is all about the journey, not the destination. It's always a sad day when a game ends, regardless of who "wins".

We started this game in August 2014. It's been a fun ride. This was my first game in AE as the Allies, at least one that went on longer than a month. I learned a lot from the experience. I learned that, for me, playing as the Allies is much easier on an emotional level than playing as the Japanese. Losing at battle or a carrier isn't desirable, but as the Allies, it probably doesn't matter in the long run. With decent play, the Allies are going to "win". As the Japanese, it's more emotionally taxing to lose a battle or carrier. Your assets are limited. You have to make the most of them while you have them, and when they can have an impact. It's a very different mindset.

At this point in our war, the Japanese are in a very bad situation, and it was about to get worse. Allied subs, based at Balikpapan, are roaming the South China Sea. Tankers with oil and fuel for the Home Islands are being sunk regularly. With Palawan about to fall, the South China Sea will be wide open to Allied ships. Getting fuel and oil to Japan is about to get much more difficult. And that is if there is any oil and fuel to ship. With bases opening up on Java, Palembang is threatened. Northern Borneo is already close to Allied bases. Not a good outlook for the Japanese.

As I just posted, Luzon was going to be the next target, followed by Formosa and a landing at Hong Kong and possibly Chinese bases just north of Formosa. The Hong Kong landing's purpose was going to be to open up a supply pipeline to the rest of China. Then the troops can upgrade and reinforce, something that I've not done due to supply considerations. The associated landings east of Hong Kong were not to be exploited. They would have been just to create a threat, and hoped to cause a general withdrawl to the east. Troops were prepping already for all of these targets.

I will allow Walker to read this thread shortly. He may post here also, if he chooses. We could continue this discussion and maybe learn a few things why things were done as they were, and what we were thinking at certain points.

I'd like to learn if the Japanese divisional losses in India and New Guinea had any effect on setting up defense elsewhere. Was there a unit shortage for where Walker would have liked to defend?

Finally, I'd like to thank Walker for his dedication to the game. I always hope for a "gentleman's game", where the game engine isn't exploited, and actions taken are fairly reasonable. Not a duplication of history, but an alternate reasonable conduct of the war. Something where I can still relate the game to actual events, despite the events varying from history. Walker has always been considerate and dependable and is an ideal person to play the game. When you make a long term commitment, and easily spend over 1,000 hours playing, you want someone like Walker as your opponent.

Thanks to all of you who have posted here, and all of you who just read the thread. I hope that my day-to-day postings have given some incite into how I play the game, good and bad. There's always more to learn, and I'll do so again with another game. Probably sooner rather than later.

Too bad. I can see why Walker would want to give in, however. The situation is deteriorating badly and quickly for Japan. I reread much of this AAR the past two or three days to try to glean something about what went wrong for Japan, and I did notice a distinct lack of ground units in the correct locations. I got the sense, trying to place myself in Japan's position as I followed through from the beginning, that Walker gave up some time ago and that he stopped moving many units and doing much of the rear area stuff some time ago.

A good game, and it is nice to get a game past 1942.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1648

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 9:06:48 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Very well played, congratulations!

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1649

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/14/2017 9:34:21 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

Many thanks to you for a very good AAR and congrats on your campaign!

Kudos to Walker for sticking it out after his carriers were lost. As you pointed out, a very hard thing for a player who knows how much they are needed to stem the Allied tide.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1650

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