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RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 12:17:29 AM   
T Rav

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		Two things.

First: Thanks Cap for a thoroughly enjoyable AAR. I check it every day after work.

Second: Ranger Joe I couldn't agree more about the M2HB (Ma Deuce). Puts the point on the phrase "If a hammer won't fix the problem, get a bigger hammer." And your right, it's heavy!

T Rav

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2971
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 12:32:04 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: T Rav

Two things.

First: Thanks Cap for a thoroughly enjoyable AAR. I check it every day after work.

Second: Ranger Joe I couldn't agree more about the M2HB (Ma Deuce). Puts the point on the phrase "If a hammer won't fix the problem, get a bigger hammer." And your right, it's heavy!

T Rav

How does the M2HB compare to the MG42?

(in reply to T Rav)
Post #: 2972
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 1:18:44 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: T Rav

Two things.

First: Thanks Cap for a thoroughly enjoyable AAR. I check it every day after work.

Second: Ranger Joe I couldn't agree more about the M2HB (Ma Deuce). Puts the point on the phrase "If a hammer won't fix the problem, get a bigger hammer." And your right, it's heavy!

T Rav

How does the M2HB compare to the MG42?


Having fired the MG42 (but not the M2), I can say that the MG42 is comparatively lightweight. Even in its HMG mounting, I still think the M2 has it beat in terms of weight.

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2973
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 4:12:36 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: T Rav

Two things.

First: Thanks Cap for a thoroughly enjoyable AAR. I check it every day after work.

Second: Ranger Joe I couldn't agree more about the M2HB (Ma Deuce). Puts the point on the phrase "If a hammer won't fix the problem, get a bigger hammer." And your right, it's heavy!

T Rav

How does the M2HB compare to the MG42?


Having fired the MG42 (but not the M2), I can say that the MG42 is comparatively lightweight. Even in its HMG mounting, I still think the M2 has it beat in terms of weight.


The MG42 equivalent would be something like the M60m the MG42 weights about 25 1/2 pounds and fires a 7.92 by 57 mm cartridge. Something like a 30 caliber high powered deer rifle. The standard Nato round is 7.62 by 51mm which is a .308 inch bullet.

The M2HB weighs about 84 pounds without the tripod and about 128 pounds with the tripod. It fires a 12.7 by 99 mm or a 50 caliber bullet. Think elephant gun. The bullet has 14,000 foot pounds of energy coming out of the muzzle. The ball round will go through about 3/4 inch of armor, the armor piercing round will go through about 2 inches of armor. A sniper firing a 50 caliber sniper rifle using the same cartridge put a bullet through a cinder block wall and killed three men behind the wall.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2974
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 11:22:46 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: T Rav

Two things.

First: Thanks Cap for a thoroughly enjoyable AAR. I check it every day after work.

Second: Ranger Joe I couldn't agree more about the M2HB (Ma Deuce). Puts the point on the phrase "If a hammer won't fix the problem, get a bigger hammer." And your right, it's heavy!

T Rav

How does the M2HB compare to the MG42?


Having fired the MG42 (but not the M2), I can say that the MG42 is comparatively lightweight. Even in its HMG mounting, I still think the M2 has it beat in terms of weight.


The MG42 equivalent would be something like the M60m the MG42 weights about 25 1/2 pounds and fires a 7.92 by 57 mm cartridge. Something like a 30 caliber high powered deer rifle. The standard Nato round is 7.62 by 51mm which is a .308 inch bullet.

The M2HB weighs about 84 pounds without the tripod and about 128 pounds with the tripod. It fires a 12.7 by 99 mm or a 50 caliber bullet. Think elephant gun. The bullet has 14,000 foot pounds of energy coming out of the muzzle. The ball round will go through about 3/4 inch of armor, the armor piercing round will go through about 2 inches of armor. A sniper firing a 50 caliber sniper rifle using the same cartridge put a bullet through a cinder block wall and killed three men behind the wall.


Aye. I've fired the Barrett M82A1 before too. It's like a whole 'nuther animal. The MG42 cartridge is no big deal. The selective fire M82A1 *hurts* to fire. Not in the shoulder with recoil, but with your face so close to the combustion chamber of the weapon, that large a volume of powder ignited smacks you in the sinuses, in the nose and eyes when you fire. You can feel your face deforming a bit and it's literally like somebody slapped you across your face.

But the penetrating power of the .50 round makes it almost worth it. I've shot through minivan engine blocks and steel tire axles / hubs. Makes it worth it.

_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2975
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 2:15:58 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		The heavy MGs were used in WWI for indirect fire - i.e. they fired over a hill to rain their heavy bullets on the enemy rear areas. I assume that a spotter balloon/plane or Forward Observation Officer was used to call in the fire and direct corrections, but even if they didn't, making the enemy rear echelons take cover instead of operating freely could slow the support to the front and add to the general misery of trench warfare. The ballistic arc range of an HMG was about twice the range of a MMG.

What no one has mentioned about the MG42 was its incredible rate of fire. Canadian soldiers fighting in Normandy commented that when their men got hit by one, it was usual for three or more bullets to hit the same man. The disadvantage for the Germans was that they had to bring a lot of ammo to the weapon; not good for an army short on vehicles.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2976
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 2:22:44 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		That is probably why the MG42 in the MMG/HMG support role had a soldier with a horse and cart.

quote:

Medium machine gun fire support role
The MG 42 mounted on the Lafette 42 tripod

In the German heavy machine gun (HMG) platoons, each platoon served four MG 34/MG 42 machine guns, used in the sustained fire mode mounted on tripods.[19] In 1944 this was altered to six machine guns in three sections with two seven-man heavy machine gun squads per section as follows:

Squad leader (NCO) MP40
Machine gunner (private) MG 34/MG 42 and pistol
Assistant gunner (private) pistol
Three riflemen (privates) rifles
Horse leader for horse, cart and trailer (private) rifle

The optimum operating crew of an MG 42 in its medium machine gun role was six men: the squad leader, the machine gunner who carried and fired the gun, the assistant gunner/loader who carried the tripod, and three riflemen who carried ammunition, spare barrels, entrenching tools, and other items.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_42

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 2977
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 2:48:00 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		Remind me never to get in a firefight with anyone on this forum.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2978
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 2:52:16 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Well, we aren't even talking about the *big* stuff yet, Zilch. This puppy has a kick!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2979
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 2:54:49 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		A nice looking toy, a PAK 75mm if I am not mistaken.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2980
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 2:57:47 PM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Well, we aren't even talking about the *big* stuff yet, Zilch. This puppy has a kick!




I repeat myself - never, ever get in a firefight...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2981
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 3:27:20 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Well, we aren't even talking about the *big* stuff yet, Zilch. This puppy has a kick!




I repeat myself - never, ever get in a firefight...





Then don't get her mad:






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2982
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 4:27:05 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

A nice looking toy, a PAK 75mm if I am not mistaken.


Aye. PaK40, HV 75mm. One of the only genuine live-firing guns of that ilk left. Got to fire it (twice!) a couple years back. I'm the sucker firing it (and nearly getting concussed) right behind the crew shield.

ETA: That kinetic penetrator makes a mess out of a minivan engine compartment, I'll tell you what.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 2/13/2020 4:28:37 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2983
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 4:53:40 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Well, we aren't even talking about the *big* stuff yet, Zilch. This puppy has a kick!




I repeat myself - never, ever get in a firefight...





Then don't get her mad:









With that outfit it is hard to carr canceled.

_____________________________

There is no point in believing in things that exist. -Didactylos

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2984
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 5:01:47 PM   
Voltreffer


Posts: 32
Joined: 2/13/2020
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		What in the world is happening with that mag? Looks like a golden 30 rnd mag strapped perpendicularly to a 15? rnd mag (looks a little too big to be a 10 rnd).

(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 2985
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 5:20:59 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltreffer

What in the world is happening with that mag? Looks like a golden 30 rnd mag strapped perpendicularly to a 15? rnd mag (looks a little too big to be a 10 rnd).


Looks like a magazine cover with a connection to a pistol grip connector. Pull off the black magazine cover, remove the magazine from the black magazine cover and you're ready to go. A way to carry an unloaded weapon and functional magazine (20 round) on the weapon.

_____________________________


(in reply to Voltreffer)
Post #: 2986
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 9:43:34 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Wonder where she straps the bayonet ...

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2987
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 10:19:55 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Wonder where she straps the bayonet ...


Maybe up her thigh?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 2988
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 11:00:22 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		What rifle?

Took me 20 minutes to see the rifle, 1 sec to figure what it is.
Allows a unloaded weapon, yet mag can be loaded in a flash.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2989
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 11:08:16 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Wonder where she straps the bayonet ...


In eam vaginam.

Latin 101

Latin - Vagina

English - "sheath" or "scabbard"

_____________________________


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 2990
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/13/2020 11:35:22 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

What rifle?

Took me 20 minutes to see the rifle, 1 sec to figure what it is.
Allows a unloaded weapon, yet mag can be loaded in a flash.







Dang, missed it.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 2/14/2020 12:09:47 AM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 2991
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 12:25:34 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Romani ite domum

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2992
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 12:57:25 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Romani ite domum



eh? Is that for me?

I am not Romani.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2993
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 1:15:12 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Romani ite domum


eh? Is that for me?

I am not Romani.

Et tu can say that again.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 2994
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 2:15:25 AM   
T Rav

 

Posts: 387
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		OK, now three things:

1. Cap, sorry to continue the hijack, but it does show that I read your AAR everyday.
2. Concur with all things said by Ranger and CB about the M2, MG42 and M60.
3. Lastly, I truly laughed when I read Zorch's response about a firefight!

T Rav

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 2995
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 2:54:38 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Think of the effect of all of these posts on your enemy, wondering what you are up to!

BTW, I never fired the PAK 40 but I did get to fire a few rounds from a M2 and a M60. Besides BB guns!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to T Rav)
Post #: 2996
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 1:46:08 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		*********January 20, 1943(e)************

New Guinea and the Sundas of all sizes: Sorong gets the treatment.

quote:

Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 45

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
45 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 22810 feet *



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 27,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
A6M3a Zero x 26

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x A6M3a Zero sweeping at 21000 feet


(in reply to T Rav)
Post #: 2997
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 1:46:53 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
A6M3a Zero x 45
G3M3 Nell x 37
G4M1 Betty x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 4

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2998
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 1:47:36 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
A6M3a Zero x 14
G3M3 Nell x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M3 Nell: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x G3M3 Nell bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Sorong , at 82,107

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 5

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 2999
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 2/14/2020 1:54:26 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Not sure what happened here. Ambon is too far away for Kates and s is Ternate. Must be a carrier attack but with land based Zekes joining in.

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Taberfane at 82,117

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31
A6M3a Zero x 21
B5N2 Kate x 8

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 3
F4F-4 Wildcat x 39
SOC-1 Seagull x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 3000
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