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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense

 
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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 2:43:30 PM   
Nico165b165


Posts: 419
Joined: 1/28/2007
From: Mons, Belgique
Status: offline 		Weekly turn, yes. But the difference between d-day and rest of the week exists.

Look at the d-day campaign starting position : the units prepping with the amphib tf are the 6 one who historically landed on d-day.

This demonstrate what the devs intend to represent with the invasion module : the scope is what happens in the first day of an invasion.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 5:23:15 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		I think the issue is the capacity of the Amphib HQs. If the capacity were a bit more like 1 div ( well reinforced, so 4 regts including armour plus Div assets) this might be better. This means 5 Ampibs to do D day, rather than the current 3 doing it easily, and 5 doing twice as much. The follow up wouldn't be affected.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 7:10:09 PM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		If the capacity is tweaked downward, some change to the AI will have to be made as well. Any landing of four or so divisions will be annihilated instantly.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 7:28:58 PM   
MisterBoats

 

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quote:

It is a weekly turn for this game. With one day turns you could be a lot more precise on what the allies could land and with what the germans could respond with. Sure there were just 6 on June 6th, but that is just 1/7th of the time involved.


After a few GC's, that's my conclusion about it. I've been used to playing other Normandy simulations, comprised of daily or hourly turns. I had to completely reconfigure my thinking for WITW. They key is to maximize the violence post-landing. It feels like shoveling sand at the beach at times, but that's historically accurate. Sooner or later, the enemy (German) line will break. I understand how exasperated Eisenhower felt by July of '44.

< Message edited by MisterBoats -- 1/15/2015 8:29:30 PM >

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 8:05:25 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
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Status: offline 		Perhaps if he didn't have Montgomery promising that every operation of his was going to be "the Breakout," he would have slept a little better.....though I heard that Irish driver of his helped with that.....lol

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 10:34:43 PM   
MisterBoats

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		True, but Monty took a flawed plan, turned it into a good one, and saw it through to completion. I can't blame him for occasional over confidence. The American commanders were just as bad about that.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/15/2015 11:47:07 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
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Status: offline 		Monty's "overconfidence" was legendary and public....it was a close-run thing that he didn't get fired after Goodwood.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 6:28:40 AM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline 		Guys, can we lay off the reflex Monty bashing. I am more am more than willing to have a debate on generalship, and Monty had his flaws, but for some reason many history forums end up doing it. If you have a serious point to make please do so, but what has he to do with the game mechanics in this thread?

There is probably an interesting social history study as to why he attracts so much more ire than generals who were equally flawed but maybe less prominent. Anyone for a discussion on Patton? Far more like Montgomery in ratio of military prowess to personal flaws than most people would admit. And don't start me on Bradley...

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 7:57:07 AM   
MisterBoats

 

Posts: 121
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I meant only to say that I understand how hard it must have been for Eisenhower to see the campaign stalled, week after week. I won't mention his name, but the English general made the victory possible.

It relates to the thread in that I have been shut down near the beaches several times. That's okay -- it's the way it was. A long battle of attrition follows the landings, and the length of that battle decides the future course of the campaign, to some extent. The rapid, massive reaction of the AI seems a bit much, but it's something to be studied and to be prepared for.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 8:50:46 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		Ive had 2 runs at DDay.

One with a solid Allied push out of the Bocage but a new German line on the Seine, the other just about gout smashed back into the Channel!

Seems to be a sweet point where the balance swings either way.

IMVHO, the Axis overreact, no doubt about it being THE INVASION, no forces held back to counter FUSAG. Might make for a good GAME but its very hard to get a real WW2 1944 feel about it.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 9:38:49 AM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Would it then be possible to take advantage of said "over-reaction" of the AI to land a second invasion - which would be the reverse of history, but might make an interesting strategy.....probably wouldn't work against a human opponent, but it may take the stuffing out of the AI.

Back to the testing lab for me, it looks like (or as others would call it - my computer).



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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 7:55:30 PM   
ratprince


Posts: 326
Joined: 3/15/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		Ive done just that Paulus in five of my AI campaigns.

Somehow the AI has enough troops regardless to masively hem you in at every beach head. They just appear out of thin air from the far reaches of the Reich presumably..hehe..

Ive done second invasions in Netherlands, Calais, Northern Germany, two in Brittany,Picardy simulateously, another in Southern France, etc..etc.. all over the place as tests. No matter where you land, and with how much and when, {done early as March 44 invasions} the AI gets a massed wall of troops in at least level one and two forts.

IMO, currently, there is no real way a 4-6 division landing, a la history, will even have a slim margin of succeeding let alone surving on the beaches. Could be my ability certainly, but I am getting a really good grasp of the game.

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 8:52:29 PM   
Smirfy

 

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Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		You just dont feel like the Western allies, you dont feel that there is any mechanic in game that can delay or interupt a response. The movement of reserves feels more World War One than Two. The fact that there is absolutely no allowance for ULTRA in game when in reality the allies had every division bar one, I believe one pinned in Western Europe is beginning to grate. Not to mention every resistance movement in Europe sending you information. Reading Speer's letters to Hitler on the bombing of the fuel plants crediting the Allies with almost supernatural source of espionage makes me feel like a blind man taking swipes with a stick rather than having any grand strategy.

In the turns after the landing do the Taskforces provide gunfire support?

< Message edited by Smirfy -- 1/16/2015 10:00:47 PM >

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RE: Comical and disturbing german beach defense - 1/16/2015 8:58:00 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline 		"In the turns after the landing do the Taskforces provide gunfire support?"

yes i believe. Iam seeing navel guns in combat reports.


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