Slitherine

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Sucks having 1200 bombers in the 8th sitting on the runway doing nothing... Thats potentially a lot of VPs missed every turn. Hopefully its fixed in the next patch.

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

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Sucks having 1200 bombers in the 8th sitting on the runway doing nothing... Thats potentially a lot of VPs missed every turn. Hopefully its fixed in the next patch.

Flight forming fix should help to make bigger strikes, but weather rolls are still there and many groups may fail to fly. You should try to pick shorter range target.

Sorry to hear on your immersion issue with WITW, which is quite strang as your AAR is one the most entertaining threads at least on WITW forum.

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

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Thoughts on the game so far. (Second impression)
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Realized something last night as I heard the email notification beep. I realized I didnīt want to stop playing my WitE AI game and do my WitW turn. It kind of caught me off guard. Why donīt I rather do a MP WitW turn then continuing on my WitE AI game? Especially considering Iīm only on T10 and getting thoroughly whooped around by the Axis AI.

It got me thinking. The realization of the the first "why" was quiet easy: Iīm not having very fun with WitW. The second "why" is harder though. Why am I not having much fun?

Last couple of years I spent all my spare time dedicated to playing 3 AE PBEMs. One of them went the entire distance to mid 45 which is no small feat considering what a mammoth game it is. I lay awake at night thinking about the game. Mentally approaching every possible move/counter move, operations in the planning, the last turn, the next turn and so on. I even woke up in the middle of the night on a workday to go up and look at the turn. Mind you I have two kids under 3 years so sleep is usually my number one priority!

I would never ever consider going up in the middle of the night for a WitW turn. I donīt even think about the game when Iīm not playing. Oddly enough I find myself reading through the entire WitE forum. Old AARs and threads about this and that. I even thought about the game when I was on my way to leave my daughter at daycare this morning. Should I move the newly formed 25th Army to Leningrad or keep them around Moscow? I have never done that when it comes to WitW.

Giving it a lot of thought I think I finally figured it out. I donīt feel connected to WitW. I donīt feel like Iīm fighting to win a war. I donīt care about getting to Berlin before the Russians do, or to liberate Paris. Or France for that matter. I donīt care about Italy. I donīt care if I lose 700 planes in a single week. I do care about one thing though:

VPs.

And in that lies the biggest problem with the game for me.

When Iīm playing AE I feel like Iīm rewarded for doing something that helps the war effort. I might shoot down 35 unescorted Betties trying to disturb my evacuation of Luzon. Or the Stingray putting two torpedoes into an unsuspecting Japanese tanker traveling in the South China Sea. Or the 1st and 2nd Marines recapturing Noumea from the 33rd Japanese ID. I also get punished by doing something that hurts the war effort and prolongs the war. Having the Yorktown sunk by a Japanese Sub outside Tarawa. Or having some of the Australian army bypassed and cut off in the Solomons... Or having a big chunk of the Indian army cut off around Calcutta in 42.

Now, whats the difference then? In AE you play to win the war and VPs are awarded accordingly. In WitW you donīt play to win the war but rather to get the points. I realize not everyone works like this but I do. And its ruining the game for me. When I play WitE I get that "feeling". I want to keep playing and get to Berlin eventually. The same drive that kept me playing some 1300 turns of AE. I wanted to win the war and lay Japan in ruins. In WitE I want to get to Berlin and win the war.

In WitW I couldnīt care less about the war. And that for me is the biggest failure of the game.

And there we have the third "why". How come I donīt care about the war in WitW? Not an easy answer. I think the question may have many answers. A part is the VP system. A part is the game and where the game is happening...

To be continued...

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City VP's should be the 98% of the points.
Subs and V's also need to be part of the over all picture as the impact was real, but can't be done in this game not yet anyways 2%

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ORIGINAL: Pelton
1. Your not getting to Berlin not even close to it, so I can see why you don't think about it
2. If you like a real game of WitE I love to play you and no your not going to get near Berlin

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ORIGINAL: Seminole

What's the skinny on this bug?

If I just dropped 5 temp ports on mainland Italy and they didn't get any supply during the next logistics phase should I presume it is this bug?

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ORIGINAL: JocMeister

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Thoughts on the game so far. (Second impression) Continued...
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I donīt want to turn this post into another monologue about the VP system. But bear with me...

Besides the things I mentioned earlier about my dislike for certain aspects of the VP I think there is a bigger overall problem. Its connected to why I donīt care about the war but I do care about the VPs.

The VP system is like its own entity working outside the game itself. It has no real bearing or impact on the game besides deciding who wins or not. So you either play the game or you play the VP system. They are not a working together but rather against one and other. Or two different games. The "VP system" vs. "The Game".

Take the U-boat/V-Weapons for example. You only bomb them because you get a penalty within the VP system if you donīt. They have no real effect on the war at all. Its just numbers. There is nothing there to connect the VP penalties to the game. I can think of several small things that could have been done to make it feel more "real" and less abstract.

Combat losses. Same thing. Its just numbers within the VP system. Sure its a reflection on the losses you take on map. But it doesnīt effect the war one bit. In many cases its actually doing the opposite of what is happening within the game. Did you just surround and destroy 3 SS divisions? In "The game" this is a great victory that will seriously hurt the Axis player. But in the "VP system" its a loss. Huh?

Iīve seen people justify the VP system as a reflection of the political situation. If that was true how come some of the biggest political events of the war is hardly giving any VP points at all? Liberation of Paris and Rome. Surrender of Italy? For that you get a drop of VPs each turn. No big award, no headlines in the newspaper. Not even a popup. And my poor pilots? Apparently these poor bastards are considered expendable while the grunts on the ground is of major concern to the politicians? It makes no sense?

Bombing VPs. Same thing here. Only numbers. (feel free to correct me here if Iīm wrong. Some speculation on my part). As far as I can tell (based on my limited experience) the only thing that can actually effect the outcome of the war is manpower. All other things are plentiful. Germany wonīt run out of oil/fuel or anything else needed in the war effort. So you donīt bomb to weaken Germany. You bomb to gain VPs. Now if you really do wanted to bomb something that could effect Germany you donīt get any points for that. Aircraft factories or AFVs donīt give you any points in the "VP system". Huh?

Garrison VPs. Again. Absolutely no bearing on "The game" whatsoever. The Axis player has to meet them or get slapped with a massive VP penalty in the "VP system". But failure to meet them hardly does anything on map. Some rail damage which would be totally ignored if it wernīt for the VP penalties. Yet there are tremendous VP losses connected to this. Makes no sense.

All this things taken together makes me feel disconnected from the game. The VP system is a game within the game. And if you want to play MP you will have to play the VP system or lose. I realize (again) that not everyone works like this but I do. But when I play the VP-system it takes all the focus from the game.

I should be worried about my poor bomber crews getting shot down like flies but Iīm not because its not costing me anything. Same mechanic makes the Axis player do crazy attacks regardless of losses. Not to halt the WA advance or cover a retreat or anything remotely related to the war. He will do that just to incur VP losses in the VP system. Playing the VP system rather then the game. Why does the Axis player send most of the Luftwaffe to Hamburg in 43? Not because he wants to cover his U-boats because the war effort needs them. But because he is playing the VP system. Why doesnīt the WA player land in Italy? Because he is playing the VP system. The list is endless.

In the end all these big and small pieces kills the immersion for me. A VP system should be a reflection on whats happening in the game. It should be there in a background as a reflection on how the war is going.But its not in WitW. Instead it takes a front seat and dictates "the game". Its intrusive and it shouldnīt be like that.

In the end this probably isnīt the game for me. Its a shame because I badly wanted it to be.

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Testers probably restarted games so often that they didnt get that far.

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ORIGINAL: JeffK

Testers probably restarted games so often that they didnt get that far.

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ORIGINAL: meklore61

No Love?

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You are not making the case for me to geed WitW, but I am patient and look forward to some continuous improvement. I am hoping you change your mind with a successful d-day in France.

What is your setting for WITE? I started back up a pbem against my son (now that his schedule eased a little), but I think versus the AI is the better game as you can watch the AI attack and do their turn.