RE: Operation Weserübung

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RE: Operation Weserübung - 4/21/2015 7:54:27 AM

Jagdtiger14

Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
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I think a well timed CW invasion in 1941 when Germany is embroiled in a Barbarossa...S/O'41? Leave enough juice ready to assist the US in the Med for when ever they enter the war.

I did this in one game as the CW and did fairly well (took Norway), although I was stopped in Denmark and never took Copenhagen. The US player was playing stupidly in Morrocco, where he got bogged down and kept spending my supply units (Axis had Gibraltar and we had a hard time keeping things in supply). I wanted him to focus on Scandinavia/France/Baltic...but NOoooo. I had ideas about trying to take Sweden and Finland if I had major US commitment (the US came in very early that game...M/J of '41).

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Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to tom730_slith)

Post #: 31

RE: Operation Weserübung - 4/24/2015 1:37:05 PM

Palle

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Just a correction, the French troops deployed to Narvik was anything but "Dad's Army"; it was the 13e Demi-Brigade de Légion Étrangère and Chasseurs Alpins. Highly professional troops I would say. It is pretty difficult to find any more so and harder than the legionnaires- even if they had just come from the desert to below zero degrees.

(in reply to tom730_slith)

Post #: 32

RE: Operation Weserübung - 4/24/2015 1:50:19 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palle

Just a correction, the French troops deployed to Narvik was anything but "Dad's Army"; it was the 13e Demi-Brigade de Légion Étrangère and Chasseurs Alpins. Highly professional troops I would say. It is pretty difficult to find any more so and harder than the legionnaires- even if they had just come from the desert to below zero degrees.

warspite1

1. As I made clear in my post, the comments were no reflection on the troops assigned to carry out this ...ahem..."plan".

2. Within the force, there were - on both the British and French side - professional soldiers. Sadly, the presence of a few professionals does not make up for: the deficiencies in planning (a total lack thereof), equipment (or lack of and lack of the right equipment), size of force (totally inadequate), objectives (undefined or not properly defined), air cover (too little, too obsolete) and composition of force (not enough trained, experienced troops). It was these things as a whole that makes them "Dad's Army" or "General Goofy goes to war" or whatever other title one may wish to give such a pathetic enterprise, rather than the shortcomings (or otherwise) of any individual unit.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 4/24/2015 5:11:02 PM >

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(in reply to Palle)

Post #: 33

RE: Operation Weserübung - 6/1/2015 12:17:35 PM

TeaLeaf

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I always take Norway for its resource.
That 1 resource can be defended well enough if need be. If Germany, I am not much interested in the Northern parts of it, as it is difficult for Germany to get supply to this area. Although, if it is deemed necessary, Mannerheim could reach quite far into the Northern parts of Norway. If the Finnish resource is to be protected (and Murmansk to be cut or taken), Germany needs that man in the north anyway.
Come to think about it, German units may move and -more importantly- trace supply through Sweden (but not end a movement step there). I never tried this but I think this means that Von Leeb, if moving along the Swedish border, can trace to the Swedish railways and then through Sweden via the Baltic Sea back to Germany.

If Germany can effectively protect Petsamo and Knaben, those two resources are worth/producing ~75BP for Germany throughout the game. Equivalent of 25INF units. That is worth some effort, I'd say. Not sure what exactly, but Germany can place a few units Around Knaben/Oslo and also replace Mannerheim in the North with Von Leeb and a few additional German units. My guess is that Murmansk will also be in big trouble..
The downside is ofc very obvious: CW merchant fleet will be reinforced.

Now, as to how to grab Norway. This is very easy, since Norwegian notional units will defend with '0' factors during the surprise impulse. Norway must therefore set up in Oslo or it will be taken in the surprise impulse. A bit of planning ahead and a couple of Para's and subsequently flown in reinforcements (MTN or DIVs) goes a very long way to begin with. A few LND may be necessary later on and so may shore bombardment, so a combined action sometime during the turn is recommended. Preferrably during the surprise impulse to also make use of the AMPH as well. BTW, Germany should go from the Baltic Sea. Their invasion forces are just too exposed in the Nort Sea.

Usually the CW is too busy in France, collecting its forces from all around the globe, protecting their convoys and sending units to Africa/Mediterranean to have a meaningful force ready to react to Norway being usurped. Even if they react, what can they gain in Norway? Germany should have the resource and the CW gets a port with a few units (Narvik?!) at best.
After Norway is conquered, the CW will have trouble invading Norway untill their first AMPHs arrive. The CW then has a choice: attacking Persia + Iraq or attacking Germany in Norway. P+I will cost Germany an oil and delivers a lot more oil to the CW and it remains to be seen if a relatively small CW force is able to take the Norwegian resource away from Germany, and it isn't even an oil resource.

My perspective of the pros and cons and ins and outs of this operation

. If the CW, I would let them bastards have Norway as I would be too preoccupied with fighting in the med and preparing to take Persia + Iraq (as soon as the US is in the war to not jeopardize its entry)...

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 34

RE: Operation Weserübung - 6/1/2015 3:48:56 PM

AlbertN

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I don't think the issue is very early in the war but as much as Norway can easily get turned into a land-carrier for Strat Bombers of the Allies for example, or Tacs to help a landing in Denmark at short range; or to go in the Baltic flying from there.
Norway, on top of that, turns into a place you need to dedicate troops to defend the resource as well - and to quell partisans down.

Timing would also be rather relevant as it would strip assets from main theathers such as France for example; or Spain / Russia later on.

(in reply to TeaLeaf)

Post #: 35

RE: Operation Weserübung - 6/1/2015 4:57:54 PM

Jagdtiger14

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From: Miami Beach
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If as Germany you want to undertake this strategy...I highly recommend it be done after the fall of France. Also, going forward you will need a fairly good defense (include Denmark) since this area then becomes a big target for the WAllies in 1942. Hopefully the units you are using to take Norway and hold it will not impact your activities in the Med/Balkans/Spain (I consider these areas of greater importance)...prior to a '41 Barb (if '41 Barb is your plan).

Its an interesting concept, and I would love to play either side some day in trying this out.

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(in reply to AlbertN)

Post #: 36