RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J)

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RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 11:54:54 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Captain Haggard-

That makes sense.

I must have translated 5 hexes a turn to 5 knots.

In the future I will try to set forth the right knot speed.

Your pal,

-Terry

< Message edited by Rio Bravo -- 9/8/2017 11:55:46 AM >

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to CaptHaggard)

Post #: 1831

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 12:04:53 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Whether by design or your bad luck your opponent has held off on anything but "tickler" raids....my hunch is that you are in for "fire and fury", or whatever the leader of free world calls it. This could mean hundreds of planes in single strikes. I wonder whether kamikaze triggers now or after feet hit the ground?? Likely the latter. Make sure your CAP is as ready as it can be. There are better advisors than me on this...make sure your higher altitude performers are used accordingly, with lower set lower. Stagger your patrol levels regardless. Set your range to short, at least over CVs. Designate LRCAP over any transport TFs. Hopefully the fatigue is not already high...bad time for me to tell you to rest them.

pontiouspilot-

I agree.

El Lobo is not going to tolerate the Allies landing at Takao, Formosa, Pescadores, and possibly Amoy, China unopposed.

El Lobo is going to come at the Allies with everything he has and he has LBA Georges and Franks, LBA bombers, his carriers and the bulk of his Surface Combat ships.

I think the landings will prevail.

I think the Allies will pay a heavy toll for the landings.

My best hope is that the Allies can inflict some damage to El Lobo's war mongers.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 1832

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 12:09:44 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Pretty sure Kamikazes do not trigger before Jan. 1, 1944.

BBfanboy-

I agree.

Allied boots hitting the turf at Takao, Pescadores, and possibly Amoy will trigger the early release of Kamikazes.

But, like you, I think the earliest the Kamikazes can fly will be January 1, 1944.

I know El Lobo. As soon as he has an opportunity to hit the Allies with Kamikazes, he will.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1833

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 12:46:04 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

The Emperor Has Landed

El Lobo phoned me last night.

He had a safe flight from Thailand and landed in San Francisco yesterday.

He will be busy during the next couple of weeks as he has some stateside matters to check off his "To Do List," and he has friends that he wants to spend time with in the Bay Area.

El Lobo plans to visit Captain Haggard and the Adjutant (Hag's wife) in Sanoma on the 20th and 21st of September.

Captain Haggard will ride with El Lobo to Grass Valley on the 22nd of September. The three of us will spend some quality time together on the back deck to consume some spirits, address and resolve current world problems, laugh too much, and try hard not to divulge too many War in the Pacific secrets. Hag will probably stay at my home for the 22nd and 23rd of September. El Lobo plans to stay at my home for two weeks or longer.

Accordingly, for a brief period of time, we won't be doing a turn a day. El Lobo said it would be a couple days before he can get the turn to me. After that, turns on a daily basis will be hit and miss depending on El Lobo's schedule and our consumption of alcohol.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1834

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 3:45:15 PM

pontiouspilot

Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline

Enjoy a nice California pinot with your opponent for us spectators!

(in reply to CaptHaggard)

Post #: 1835

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 7:16:32 PM

CaptHaggard

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Captain Haggard-

That makes sense.

I must have translated 5 hexes a turn to 5 knots.

In the future I will try to set forth the right knot speed.

Your pal,

-Terry

No big deal, Admiral. Just thought I'd point it out.

The real point is, we're almost there, mate!

Hag

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1836

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/8/2017 7:31:42 PM

CaptHaggard

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Enjoy a nice California pinot with your opponent for us spectators!

PP�

If the empties on Rio's kitchen countertop number less than a dozen by the time I leave, I will feel I failed...

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 1837

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/19/2017 1:49:40 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

I spoke with El Lobo on the phone yesterday and learned why El Lobo hasn't sent a turn for the past couple weeks.

He said he has analysis paralysis.

He isn't sure exactly where the Allies intend to land so he can't make up his mind where to fly his LBA.

*chuckling*

El Lobo and Captain Haggard are scheduled to arrive at my home on Wednesday, the 20th of September, 2017.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to CaptHaggard)

Post #: 1838

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/21/2017 9:22:52 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

El Lobo and Captain Haggard's visit to Grass Valley has been revised.

El Lobo is presently visiting Captain Haggard and the Adjutant (Hag's wife) in Sanoma.

El Lobo plans to arrive in Grass Valley on September 23rd and plans to stay at my home for two weeks or longer.

Captain Haggard plans to arrive in Grass Valley on September 29th and will probably stay a couple days.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1839

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/22/2017 1:57:19 AM

Bif1961

Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline

I started the wild fires in CA to make him move faster and send you a turn tell me if it works.

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1840

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/22/2017 12:41:07 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

I started the wild fires in CA to make him move faster and send you a turn tell me if it works.

Bif-

You better seek a good hide-out as you are going to have half the state gunning for you. *chuckling*

I think it is going to be a tough sell convincing El Lobo to finish a damn turn.

I have been advised that both Captain Haggard and he have each purchased a large bottle of Saki. I already told them that I am sticking with tequila and scotch and to hell with that rice wine.

Last year, El Lobo surprised us by staggering out to the back deck one dark night wearing a WWII Japanese fighter-pilot hat. I can't wait to see what these two come up with this year.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Bif1961)

Post #: 1841

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/22/2017 2:06:40 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

I have been advised that both Captain Haggard and he have each purchased a large bottle of Saki. I already told them that I am sticking with tequila and scotch and to hell with that rice wine.

A little editing in order for that word/name. Saki was the pseudo-Indian pen name for Rudyard Kipling when he wrote "The Jungle Book". Note that the Japanese would pronounce that as sack-ee. Sake is the rice wine common to Japan, pronounced sack-ay.

Warning - do not buy the cheapest sake that you can find. As one friend of mine put it, it tastes like it was filtered through the used socks of the entire IJA!
The difference is in the milling of the rice kernels and addition of fruit flavors. Cheap sake has almost no milling so you get the taste of the husk and all. Can you imagine corn husks being used in making corn whiskey?

Good sake has at least the husks milled away and the very best sake has all but the endosperm (the little plant that is the living part of the seed) milled away - i.e. most of the starchy part of the rice. I like the ones that have a plum flavor. These types of sake are expensive so you sip them for enjoyment of the taste as opposed to trying to get drunk on them. A good mid-level sake is gekkeikan "Black and Gold" - in a black bottle with gold lettering.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1842

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/22/2017 3:16:36 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
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Status: offline

Thanks for that mini lesson BB!

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1843

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 9/29/2017 3:52:04 PM

Rusty1961

Posts: 1219
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline

Yes, good sake lesson!

Also, what became of your opponent?

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 1844

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/1/2017 7:50:24 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

Progress Report

Regarding

El Lobo's Vacation

El Lobo arrived at my home on September 22rd. We smoked weed, drank 3/4 of a bottle of tequila, caught-up on what each of us had been doing the past year since his last visit, and laughed until we went to bed around 4:30 a.m.

The next few days we alternated days between no intoxicants to being hammered.

Neither El Lobo nor myself experienced a hangover. However, the worst was still to come.

Captain Haggard arrived around 3:00 p.m. on September 29th. Within fifteen minutes, Captain Haggard had a glass of red wine in hand and ushered us out onto the back deck. We quickly resolved all the current World Affair problems to efficiently dispose of such trivial matters so that we could concentrate on important matters such as smoking weed, drinking wine, shooting shots of tequila, trash talking each other and all of you, and laughing to the point that at times it took a while to complete any given sentence. Captain Haggard managed to cook and serve us a three course dinner over a three or four hour period commencing around 7:00 p.m. (we were already a bit hammered). The first course was salmon seasoned over a four day period and I believe cr�me cheese on some sort of dark Rye bread. About 90 minutes later, Hag served us shrimp crab-cakes with his own concocted sauce (We were substantially hammered). About 90 minutes later, Hag served us filet mignons with a salad made by the Adjutant (Hag's wife) and transported to Grass Valley via a Hellcat (we were completely destroyed). El Lobo and Captain Haggard emptied 3 1/2 bottles of wine, El Lobo had a shot of tequila from the fresh bottle Hag had brought for us, and I finished draining the tequila past the half-way point. El Lobo and I also smoked weed. We went to bed at around sunup at which time Hag was struggling to open the closet door by the front door of my home. "I asked, "What are you doing?" Hag replied, "Going to bed." I said, "You might try the back bedroom."

Last night, El Lobo and Captain Haggard said they got quite happy emptying a bottle of Sake. I smoked a bit of weed. We crashed relatively early, about 1:00 a.m.

Captain Haggard left this morning around 9:00 a.m. El Lobo will head back to the Bay Area on October 4th and he flies back to Thailand (his home) on October 6th.

September 22, 1943 Turn

El Lobo advises that he will finish the September 22, 1943 turn and get it to Hag and me prior to leaving for Thailand.

As of September 21, 1943, the Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet is 4,520 miles northwest of Pearl, 1,320 miles northwest of Guam, and 320 miles from its destination one hex due west of Pescadores. The Allies are on schedule to invade Takao, Formosa and Pescadores on September 24, 1943, and possibly Amoy as well (Operation John B. Hood).

Attached as a link below shows the exact location of the Invasion Fleet on September 21, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rusty1961)

Post #: 1845

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/2/2017 7:10:44 PM

CaptHaggard

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline

As usual, Admiral Bravo's hospitality was impeccable.

Other than a few barbed asides, we all really never spoke of our death-struggle in WitPAE. I gushed forth wa-ay too many sea-stories from my dung-water Navy days�this during ex-Marine Rio's awesome multi-media presentation of El Lobo's (Army) and my service. El (in possession of elevated battle accomplishments) was much more restrained�to maintain, I suppose, that eerie implacability typical of your Emperor of the mysterious Far-East.

(Every year�to keep the party rolling, you see�we each give a dissertation in the drunken dead of night).

Good times: the neighbors' spirit of outrage over three old dudes yucking it up on the deck to all hours has been quelled; Rio & I didn't once threaten each other with fisticuffs, so that record of longevity is mercifully at an end; I don't remember trying to go to my bedroom through the hall closet, but I have a perfectly reasonable explanation which I plan on sharing real soon.

Meanwhile, I'm cursed with having to wait a whole year for another one of Rio's taco salads...

Thanks for everything, Admiral!

< Message edited by CaptHaggard -- 10/2/2017 8:48:28 PM >

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1846

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/9/2017 12:27:47 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

The War Resumes

1.) El Lobo arrived safely at his home in Thailand.

2.) El Lobo sent Turn 655 (the September 22, 1943 Turn) and I have returned the same to him.

3.) As of September 22, 1943, the Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet is 4,720 NW of Pearl, 1,520 miles NW of Guam, and 120 SW of its destination one hex due West of Pescadores.

4.) The Allies will invade Takao and Pescadores (and possibly Amoy) on September 23, 1943.

Attached as a link below is a map of the vicinity of Formosa as of September 22, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to CaptHaggard)

Post #: 1847

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/10/2017 3:17:44 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

September 22, 1943

News Flash

Raging wildfires in the vicinity of the Napa-Sanoma area prompt Captain Haggard and the Adjutant (Hag's wife) to prepare for possible evacuation of their home.

Highlights for Today

1.) "Tiny Bubbles" sung by Don Ho as Allied Fletcher DDs sink 4 Japanese minor ships near Takao.

2.) "Fireworks Over Pescadores" is sung by The Andrew Sisters as 47 Japanese aircraft are destroyed and 4 damaged in exchange for 9 Allied aircraft destroyed and a CVL is set on fire.

3.) "Almagan Flames" is sung by Bing Crosby as 23 Allied aircraft are destroyed and 2 damaged in exchange for 1 Japanese E-Boat being heavily damaged.

Synopsis of Combat Action for Today

1.) Near Takao (hex 84,64) Allied Fletchers have excellent night vision:

Japanese Losses

DMS W-16; 10 shell hits; sunk.
ACM Ratzo Rizzo (aka Ransom Maru); 2 shell hits; sunk.
CM Kamane; 1 torpedo hit; sunk.
CMc Ma 3; 25 shell hits; sunk.

Allied Losses

None

2.) Near Naha (hex 93,68) Captain Haggard's Submarine SS Barb puts a torpedo into an El Lobo transport:

Japanese Losses

xAK Brasil Maru; 1 torpedo hit; on fire.

Allied Losses

None

3.) Near Pescadores (hex 86,62) Japanese Aircraft attack Allied Invasion Fleet:

Japanese Losses

5 destroyed and 2 damaged (G4M1 Betty)
6 destroyed (B6N2 Jill)
7 destroyed (Ki-84a Frank)
4 destroyed (Ki-45 KAIa Nick)
8 destroyed and 2 damaged (B5N2 Kate)
5 destroyed (N1K1 George)
5 destroyed (Ki-44-IIa Tojo)
5 destroyed (Ki-49-IIb Helen)
2 destroyed (Ki-48-Ib Lily)

Allied Losses

1 destroyed (F4F-4 Wildcat)
5 destroyed (FM-1 Wildcat)
3 destroyed (F6F-2 Hellcat)

CVL Hermes; 1 bomb hit; on fire.

4.) Japanese bomb Chungking setting hundreds of thousands of fires and crippling Manpower and the runway-of-no-return.

5.) Near Almagan (hex 110,98 Allied Bombers whistle smoke and flames:

Japanese Losses

E W-28; heavy fires; heavy damage.

Allied Losses

7 destroyed (SBD-3 Dauntless)
6 destroyed (SBD-5 Dauntless)
10 destroyed and 2 damaged (TBF-1 Avenger)

Attached below as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 22, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1848

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/10/2017 4:31:47 PM

pontiouspilot

Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline

Tell the Captain not to leave the bridge until every bottle of wine is saved!

Still no IJN planes....if smart they climb all over you during egress. Keep an eye on your sortie level if flying lots of missions. Dammed embarrassing having defenceless CVs cause sortied out.

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1849

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/10/2017 4:54:58 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Tell the Captain not to leave the bridge until every bottle of wine is saved!

Still no IJN planes....if smart they climb all over you during egress. Keep an eye on your sortie level if flying lots of missions. Dammed embarrassing having defenceless CVs cause sortied out.

pontiouspilot-

Actually, Captain Haggard is on top of it and advised me yesterday that he had planned to pack a couple bottles of wine.

So far only the carrier fighter aircraft are flying CAP and LRCAP. It is my understanding that flying CAP and LRCAP do not effect the number sorties fighters can fly.

We did see IJN aircraft near the Bonin Islands but so far in the vicinity of Formosa, we haven't seen Japanese Carrier aircraft. I suspect the Allies will encounter them soon!

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 1850

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/10/2017 6:37:56 PM

CaptHaggard

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline

Gentlemen,

I haven't carved my way through this much smoke since my parents' cocktail parties... in fact, I'm hearing distant echoes of Sinatra's "Swinging Lovers"... don't get me wrong, I'm happy that WWII crowd had so much fun, but jeez�I'd watch Basil Rathbone's Sherlock Holmes on the Late Show... as he'd disappear into fog-shrouded London alleys I'd think of my living room... pretty sure stunted-growth cost me my NBA career, at least when the NBA was full of people who couldn't jump...

So, anyhow, because of the smoke I can't see the flames on the hillside at this point, but I think the fire crews have corralled the lower hotspots... visibility may be 200 yards at this point... cooler, though, and no wind here in the valley... good news...

Thus far we are fortunate and still in the home... PP: I inquired about the 14' refrigerated rental trucks so as to carry the whole cellar, but it was an exercise in futility because at that point their was no way out of town to go pick it up... very Dien Bien Phu-esque, surrounded and every road cut.

Okay: I recall a month of so ago I was on the verge of puking with nerves about this invasion and that's a long time to "verge", but here we finally are: D-Day x 3�Takao, Pescadores & Amoy.

While I am not looking forward to wading into 600 mines tonight/tomorrow�not to mention the rest�that's what's on the menu.

But Amoy. Egads, this whole aspect makes me run for the gin. I don't worry about landing the Marines in Amoy, but what happens after that?

Here we have a replay of sentiments that we first saw for the Marianas invasions, which, at one point, I freely admit I thought ill-advised�if not entirely insane. And we know how that went. (As I always tell the Adjutant, "I'm happy to be wrong�hey, if you were me, you would be too")

... Carving through China with 5 Marine divisions and rescuing Chungking... well, it's no time to be less than optimistic and for Rio's sake, I'm trying... no bad vibes here... it is thrilling & crazy & fraught with jeopardies... and we're almost there.

Special Correspondent F. Q. Bloomquist-Rose, of SPECOP Haggard Group, will land with the 1st Marine and will issue communiques throughout the march to Chungking.

Kindly forgive the blather, which I blame on rogue particulates,

Hag

< Message edited by CaptHaggard -- 10/10/2017 6:41:02 PM >

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1851

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/10/2017 7:14:46 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

If the plan is to land five Marine Divisions and march to Chungking, say goodbye to them. That is a huge salient with lots of bases requiring garrison and roads and railroads to protect. Once the Marines are cut off from their supply they will be a problem for Chungking, not saviours. You will need a LOT of good units to follow up from the Amoy landings and protect or expand the salient. Hundreds of Thousands of tons of supply will have to be brought in by ship.

And the enemy can rail in reinforcements and supply from all over Asia. This is not the few isolated islands you took in the Marianas.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to CaptHaggard)

Post #: 1852

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/10/2017 8:05:35 PM

CaptHaggard

Posts: 191
Joined: 3/8/2016
From: Sonoma, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

If the plan is to land five Marine Divisions and march to Chungking, say goodbye to them. That is a huge salient with lots of bases requiring garrison and roads and railroads to protect. Once the Marines are cut off from their supply they will be a problem for Chungking, not saviours. You will need a LOT of good units to follow up from the Amoy landings and protect or expand the salient. Hundreds of Thousands of tons of supply will have to be brought in by ship.

And the enemy can rail in reinforcements and supply from all over Asia. This is not the few isolated islands you took in the Marianas.

BB�

Since I'm a sub/ASW guy, I should point out that I am not responsible for the words that issue from my mouth regarding ground ops, plus my thought processes are under assault from rogue particulates... I believe the idea is to have the Chinese help quite a bit, so it's not like a thin patrol from 4th Cavalry carving a path over mountains and deserts through legions of Kiowas to the homesteaders without outside help... the rear/supply lines will of course have to be secure. Such a landing will probably draw some of the Japanese armies currently choking Chungking... so we await events and their impact on further events... we await as well as Admiral Bravo's clarifications, since he's the only one in here that's wearing combat boots, not boondockers

Your slightly inebriated friend, Hag

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1853

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/12/2017 12:11:28 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

If the plan is to land five Marine Divisions and march to Chungking, say goodbye to them. That is a huge salient with lots of bases requiring garrison and roads and railroads to protect. Once the Marines are cut off from their supply they will be a problem for Chungking, not saviours. You will need a LOT of good units to follow up from the Amoy landings and protect or expand the salient. Hundreds of Thousands of tons of supply will have to be brought in by ship.

And the enemy can rail in reinforcements and supply from all over Asia. This is not the few isolated islands you took in the Marianas.

BBfanboy-

I haven't advised The War College in detail regarding Operation Culpepper Cattle Company (i.e., the Marines March on Chungking) because until today, I wasn't sure that Takao and Pescadores could be captured without the Marines.

In a few days I will try to provide details regarding Operation Culpepper Cattle Company.

Perhaps after you have more details regarding Operation Culpepper Cattle Company, your concern regarding elimination of the Marines will be substantially alleviated.

As always, I appreciate your comments.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1854

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/12/2017 12:49:33 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

September 23, 1943

Operations Bottle, Cork, and John B. Hood

1.) The Allies invade Takao, Pescadores, and Amoy this date.

2.) Allied recon reveal the following Japanese assets at the following locations:

Takao: 4 Units; 7,700 Troops; 130 Guns; 15 AFV; 27 Fighters; 1 AP in port; and 2 ships in TFs.

Pescadores: 5 Units; 7,780 Troops; 65 Guns; and 2 AFV.

Amoy: 2 Units; 4,620 Troops; 26 Guns; and 0AFV.

Taichu: 10 Units; 480 Troops; 71 Guns; 36 AFV; 24 Fighters; 37 Bombers; and 9 Auxiliary Aircraft.

Taihoku: 2 Units; 1,880 Troops; 32 Guns; and 0 AFV.

Chochow: 1 Unit.

3.) The Allies bombard Takao, Pescadores, Amoy, and Taichu this date.

4.) The Allied Assault Value and Supply allocated for the following locations are as follows:

Takao: U.S. Army Infantry; U.S. Army Tank Battalions; and supporting units: 1,200 AV and 569,898 Supply.

Pescadores: U. S. Army Infantry; U.S. Army Tank Battalion; and supporting units: 793 AV and 210,485 Supply.

Amoy: USMC Infantry; USMC Tank Battalions; and supporting units: 3,100 AV and 737,674 Supply.

A map showing the present location of the Allied Invasion Fleet and the vicinity of Formosa is below.

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1855

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/12/2017 7:14:05 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

September 23, 1943

Highlights for Today

1.) The vast majority of the Combat Action today was either at or in the vicinity of Saipan, Takao, Taichu, Pescadores, and Amoy.

2.) Day two of Operations Bottle (the invasion of Takao), Cork (the invasion of Pescadores), and John B. Hood (the invasion of Amoy) resulted in Japan winning at sea (sinking and damaging numerous Allied ships) and resulted in Japan inflicting substantial casualties on Allied troops whereas the Allies won the battle in sky.

3.) Only one capital ship was damaged today; an Allied BB took three shell hits.

4.) The U.S. Army landed at Takao and Pescadores and the U.S. Marines landed at Amoy.

5.) Not too surprisingly (as El Lobo is no doubt flying his aircraft in China south to meet the Allied threat at Amoy) Japanese Aircraft did not bomb Chungking. Japan did bombard Chungking and inflicted 300 Chinese casualties.

6.) Exclusive of the losses at Chungking, the losses for both sides today are summarized below along with the attached entire Combat Report for September 23, 1943.

Summary of Losses for Today

Ship Losses

8 ships sunk and 2 ships damaged (Japan).

3 ships sunk and 33 ships damaged (Allies).

Aircraft Losses

39 aircraft destroyed and 195 aircraft damaged (Japan).

16 aircraft destroyed (Allies).

Troop Losses

827 casualties (Japan).

8,104 casualties (Allies).

Japan Ship Losses

AK Sakaru: sunk.
xAP Tango Maru: sunk.
xAP Kasado Maru: sunk.
xAK Tacoma Maru: sunk.
xAK Kank Maru: sunk.
xAK Hiyoshi Maru: sunk.
xAK Hino Maru: sunk.
xAK Matsue Maru: sunk.
xAK Yae Maru: on fire; heavy damage.
TK Kumanoyama: heavy fires; heavy damage.

Allied Ship Losses

BB Royal Sovereign: 3 shell hits.
DMS Lamberton: 1 shell hit.
DMS Long: on fire.
DMS Chandler: on fire; heavy damage.
DMS Perry: heavy fires; heavy damage.
DMS Dorsey: heavy fires; heavy damage.
AM Herd: on fire.
AM Tumult: on fire; heavy damage.
AM Direct: heavy fires; heavy damage.
YMS-148: heavy fires; heavy damage.
YMS: 219: heavy fires; heavy damage.
YMS 272: heavy fires; heavy damage.
YMS-242: heavy fires; heavy damage.
YMS-274: heavy fires; heavy damage.
APA Harris: 1 mine hit.
xAP Mariposa: on fire.
xAP President Fillmore: on fire.
xAP President Taylor: on fire.
xAK Andrew Furuseth: 1 mine hit
xAK Steel Worker: 1 shell hit.
xAK Russell A. Alger: 1 shell hit.
xAK San Gabriel: 1 shell hit.
xAK Ohioan: 2 shell hits.
xAK Cape May: 2 shell hits.
xAK Steel Navigator: 2 shell hits.
xAK San Simeon: on fire.
xAK Conrad Korhs: heavy fires.
xAK Amos Kendall: heavy fires.
xAK Irenee Du Pont: heavy fires.
xAK Cleveland Abbe: heavy fires.
xAK Robert H. Harrison: heavy fires.
xAK Leland Stanford: heavy fires.
xAK Ellenga: heavy damage.
xAK Garamula: sunk.
xAK Mormaegull: sunk.
xAK Steel Voyager: sunk.

Japan Aircraft Losses

1 damaged (Ki-49 IIb Helen).
2 destroyed (G3M3 Nell).
2 destroyed and 15 damaged (B5N1 Kate).
2 destroyed and 19 damaged (B5N2 Kate).
4 destroyed and 28 damaged (N1K1-J George).
5 destroyed and 38 damaged (Ki-45 KAIa Nick).
6 destroyed and 22 damaged (G4M1 Betty).
18 destroyed and 72 damaged (Ki-84a Frank).

Allied Aircraft Losses

1 destroyed (Martlet IV).
1 destroyed (Spitfire VC Trop).
2 destroyed (Kittyhawk IV).
3 destroyed (P-40N5 Warhawk).
4 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).
5 destroyed (F4U-1 Corsair).

Best Regards,

-Terry

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1856

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/13/2017 9:31:23 PM

pontiouspilot

Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline

I read the full report...it didn't seem that bad. When and where will the other shoe fall? No sign of IJN?

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1857

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/14/2017 5:01:33 AM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

I read the full report...it didn't seem that bad. When and where will the other shoe fall? No sign of IJN?

pontiouspilot-

I agree, it wasn't that bad. It could have been much worse and still might get much worse. As with the Marianas, I simply want to unload the troops and get back to Guam and Pearl as quickly as possible...for now.

The last sighting of the IJN was off the Bonin Islands a few days ago. I had thought that El Lobo would have the KB trailing the Invasion Fleet and that his carriers would have launched his dive bombers by now.

The Allies will bombard Taichu and Takao again on the 24th (next turn); hoping to destroy damaged Japanese aircraft on the ground.

El Lobo didn't send Turn 657 to Hag this morning. Now that he knows where the Allies landed, he is probably going to take a couple days to decide what he wants to do.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 1858

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/14/2017 4:09:26 PM

pontiouspilot

Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline

Maybe egress through South China Sea?? That might avoid the confrontation...if that's what you would prefer.

(in reply to Rio Bravo)

Post #: 1859

RE: THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J) - 10/16/2017 6:12:15 PM

Rio Bravo

Posts: 1794
Joined: 7/13/2013
From: Grass Valley, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Maybe egress through South China Sea?? That might avoid the confrontation...if that's what you would prefer.

pontiouspilot-

I don't think that egressing through the South China Sea would be the best route for the Invasion Fleet to return home. It would just take longer. The problem is that El Lobo could just track down the Fleet as it will be moving slow due to the speed of the transports.

Though I would prefer to fight his carriers down the waves of time, without being encumbered by protecting transports, if El Lobo wants a sea battle now, he won't get away unscathed.

Best Regards,

-Terry

_____________________________

"No one throws me my own guns and tells me to run. No one."

-Bret (James Coburn); The Magnificent Seven

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 1860

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