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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBrown(A) - No Bill Pls

 
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 7:08:58 PM   
vicberg

 

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Yes, I'm talking about the 350 monthly replacement rate.

I don't know. The Chinese seemed pretty combat effective to me, in spite of supply(-) coming up and no disruption penalty and 90% over-stacked.

I'll be fine. This just brought back all the reasons I stopped the game. Wonderful naval and air systems and a very questionable ground combat system, which is far, far too bloody and extreme for a single day of war. "Hey guys, attack today and I'll know you'll be tired so go to the beach and take the next couple of days off. We have some keggers setup there. There's volleyball nets next to the keggers", which is exactly how battles play out in this combat system all because disruption/fatigue/casualties are way too high for a single day of battle.


< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/17/2015 8:10:47 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 7:33:57 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

I don't know. The Chinese seemed pretty combat effective to me, in spite of supply(-) coming up and no disruption penalty and 90% over-stacked.


Rule of thumb, a unit with no supply will always be able to use 25% of it's AV in battle. So yes, even though the Chinese may not have supply, their strength will always be a minimum of .25 times the AV total.

I agree, the land model isn't the greatest. Learn it, know it, live it.


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(in reply to vicberg)
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 7:38:48 PM   
vicberg

 

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Yep, realizing that. Would love to halve the effects of combat for a single day and leave the supply costs the same. This would bring this entire china theater back to reality as well as bringing some reality to the land combat model in general. It's taken 500k of supply to get this far in my game. Would I do it if it took 1 million? Probably not. Plus with this game as FOW heavy as it is, it really needs a probe attack.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/17/2015 8:39:31 PM >

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 7:40:13 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon
There is so much confusion regarding river crossings. Let me try to help.

Thanks. It nagged me that something was wrong in my understanding after I posted the comment )

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg
I don't know. The Chinese seemed pretty combat effective to me, in spite of supply(-) coming up and no disruption penalty and 90% over-stacked.

Just bomb and wait. Not all of them are at zero supply yet. Plus morale will go down the drain eventually w/o supplies and under fire.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 7:59:38 PM   
vicberg

 

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June 28th, 1942

I launched a ground bombardment against Chungking with 180 bombers. I did a massive 200 casualties. So, the level 6 forts are protecting the entire 300k of troops there.

I have 6 Sentai in Hankow, 4 Sentai in Wuchang, 2 Sentai in Changsha and 2 Chutai in Kweiyang. That's potentially 300 bombers, but not ever quite that much do to losses and repairs. They will all continue their bombardments of Chungking while my army repairs. There's also another 5 Sentai out of Takao that will bombard Wenchow.

9 divisions are all pretty much smashed as a result of the last attack. More reinforcements moving to the area, but I'm really not convinced much can be done for Chungking or Wenchow either. I killed too many Chinese units too quickly and they are all magically popping up in Chungking. 30 corp multiplied by 200-300 AV each (1/3 of their potential) = 6000-9000 AV not including forts. Once forts are built up you can't dismantle them from the air. The only way is to launch very bloody ground attacks against them. No way. If I attempt to conquer China again (which is doubtful), I'll need to make sure to not destroy Chinese units along the way. Wenchow is playing out very similar to Chungking. Same things have been happening. He's been over-stacked at Wenchow by 25% the entire game but it hasn't had an affect. Stacking limits haven't been programmed very well throughout the game and it's really showing.

So, live it, love it (NOT) and move on. At this point, I'll move off divisions Chungking to support the 25th and defend the nearby bases. Same with Wenchow. Let him come out. If he comes out, I'll have a chance to smash his units from the air and on the ground. The 1st and Second Armored divisions are available now. I'll assemble them in Kweiyang and most likely send them both to Burma. Chungking and Wenchow will both become containment.

The ground combat system wins.


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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 8:15:54 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg
I launched a ground bombardment against Chungking with 180 bombers. I did a massive 200 casualties. So, the level 6 forts are protecting the entire 300k of troops there.

Bombing is not for casualties, but for supply exhaustion hitting the airfield. Can be done using crappy obsolete planes too. Forts were 9 in some of the sieges in the AARs, still defenders will bite the dust eventually against smaller force.
quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg
At this point, I'll move off divisions Chungking to support the 25th and defend the nearby bases. Same with Wenchow. Let him come out. If he comes out, I'll have a chance to smash his units from the air and on the ground.

I'd say you will be better off by having some IDs left in Chungking and Wenchow hexes with taking control of all the hexsides, so that Chinese are completely surrounded, can't be in rest mode and can't have freedom of movement so you dont have to have defences all over the neighborhood. Your IDs can get to 4+ forts plus hex defence bonus, so it's very dodgy for Chinese to try attacks given their supply situation, even with vast numerical advantage. Wenchow can also be bombarded from the sea with whatever surface ships available with no risk and very modest fuel costs

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 10:42:01 PM   
Lowpe


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Everyone that has taken Chungking has overcome the exact problems you outline. High forts. Respawning infantry. Better prep.

And yet somehow, we were able to do it. You can do it too.

300 bombers causing 200 losses sounds about right given the paucity of information you have provided. You should be able to bomb at 7K. You will increase the losses as the defenders deteriorate. Increasing damage is also a function of your game play: air hq? adequate runways and aviation support, short distance, generous supply, good leaders, good pilots, high detection level, good weather (very iffy around Chungking).

You seem intent on knocking the game engine instead of understanding it and working with it. If you don't understand the game mechanics and adapt your tactics accordingly, you are in for a long disappointing road -- especially as Japan.






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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 11:10:49 PM   
witpqs


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In case you aren't yet - recon Chungking too to help your bombers (and ground attacks).

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/17/2015 11:17:46 PM   
vicberg

 

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1) Bombing runs at 6k, been at 6k since beginning of game.
2) Doing recon on Chungking, lots of it and have been
3) Good Air Support and Air HQ
4) Best leaders I have (not saying much for Army)
5) Pilot quality isn't great (about 65 average)

My rants about the engine are over. Don't like it, but have to live with it. I'll take advice and leave divs in Chungking and keep at it until it's starts degrading.

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/19/2015 5:28:32 PM   
Blind Sniper


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Great AAR Vic, and I hope to give you a challenge in our game too!

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/20/2015 2:26:33 AM   
vicberg

 

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Thanks Ale!

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/20/2015 6:33:08 PM   
vicberg

 

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July 5th, 1942

Just outside of Kunming

25th Army continues it's push. 1st and 2nd Armored Divisions are coalescing at Kweiyang. 25th Army is now pushing on remaining two Chinese Cities between it and Burma. More divisions are moving on Changsha, though I'm already close to stacking limits there. Daily bombardments are taking out 5-10 air supply per day. No idea how much that translates to.

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18135 troops, 340 guns, 457 vehicles, Assault Value = 611

Defending force 43776 troops, 70 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 561

Japanese adjusted assault: 482

Allied adjusted defense: 163

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
192 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 44 (2 destroyed, 42 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
12392 casualties reported
Squads: 474 destroyed, 24 disabled
Non Combat: 705 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 24 (24 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 19
Units destroyed 1




< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/22/2015 3:36:12 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/22/2015 2:21:27 PM   
vicberg

 

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July 9th, 1942

25th Army Continues it's Push to Burma

One City remains between the 25th Army and Burma which is good because Mitchells came out of Ledo and attacked the airfield at Myitkyina. I don't think I can ever remember the spelling of that base and I've done nothing with it. Tsyyung fell today and the remnants of that Chinese Army won't be able to stop the 25th. First Tank Division is about to form in Kweiyang and I'm going to send it to Chungking. Probably another week of before having 100% prep for Chungking and I pulled out about 10 heavy Arty from Manchuko. They will take a week or two to get to Chungking.

Ground combat at Tsuyung (68,46)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 17800 troops, 341 guns, 393 vehicles, Assault Value = 578

Defending force 39506 troops, 105 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 630

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 756

Allied adjusted defense: 109

Japanese assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tsuyung !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
379 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Allied ground losses:
14365 casualties reported
Squads: 132 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 816 destroyed, 12 disabled
Engineers: 25 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 26 (25 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 16
Units destroyed 5

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/22/2015 3:35:28 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/22/2015 8:10:17 PM   
vicberg

 

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July 12th, 1942

China

25th Army closes in on the last Chinese City between it and Burma and air sweeps from Burma chased away everything from Ledo. It pays to have numbers in a given theater. The 11th, 1st and 23rd Armies maneuver the beat up divisions into garrison duty and I'm moving strong divisions into Chungking. 1st Armored Division is days away from being formed. Still not seeing any degradation of Chinese troops in the city. If the next attack is another disaster, I will switch gears to containment.

Aleutians

He's firing up some activity there, so I've decided to mount my first real operation of the war. 3 IDs are prepping and I'll be focusing down to Cold Bay. Going to put this issue to rest once and for all. 4 CVs are 3 days away from being upgraded and then it will commence.

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/23/2015 9:23:57 PM   
vicberg

 

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The 1st Tank Div has been formed and is in route to Chungking. The 2nd Tank Div has part of it in Burma now, so I'm debating on whether to send it to Chungking or leave it in Burma.

Now, I'm not sure what the indicators are for degradation of his troops in Chungking. I'm noticing that casualties are increasing with ground strikes and artillery. But it's not a huge increase. It's gone from about 200 to now about 400+. But still a lot less than the 300k of troops there.

I'm just about finished surrounding the city. Last unit is moving in. Once 1st Tank and the heavy arty are in the city, I'll launch my attack. Still not sure if it's premature or not. Everything is near or at 100% prep.

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/23/2015 9:36:13 PM   
witpqs


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The best indicator that I've heard of is lack of any big AA guns firing. I'm not sure if the small stuff ever stops firing - someone else might know? Next up would be the supply(-) in the combat report.

The devices destroyed in combat is also partly a reflection of the percentage of devices that are disabled. AFAIK the more devices disabled the more likely one is chosen as a casualty and destroyed (instead of an operational device being disabled).

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 1:17:11 PM   
vicberg

 

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July 24th, 1942

Debacle
There's some real strangeness within this game, a sort of, what were they thinking. In an effort to surround Chungking, I put a AV 27 garrison unit into cross over the river in the last hexside that I don't control. That caused a shock attack because I haven't cross that hexside yet.

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 118597 troops, 1153 guns, 105 vehicles, Assault Value = 3444

Defending force 235804 troops, 752 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6919

Assault collapses, survivors seek cover

Japanese ground losses:
768 casualties reported
Squads: 37 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (5 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
487 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

SoPac
Yesterday, I detected a TF about 10 hexes off Noumea and got a fish into a CL. Today, they make a run at Noumea and my CL SCTF intercept. I lose and yet again, my planes with good supply, good leaders and all assigned to the same HQ in the same hex, do not fly. What does it take to get stuff to do what you want in this game? Sacrifice more chickens? Oh both of these combats where within 2 hexes of Noumea and yet, planes don't fly.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Isle of Pines at 115,161, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara
CL Isuzu
CL Kiso
CL Ishikari, Shell hits 2
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hatsuharu
DD Kikuzuki

Allied Ships
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 1
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Selfridge, Shell hits 3
DD Mayrant

And another
Day Time Surface Combat, near Isle of Pines at 115,162, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 2
CL Kiso, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Ishikari, Shell hits 5
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 2
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatsuharu, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 4
DD Ralph Talbot, Shell hits 1
DD Selfridge, Shell hits 1
DD Mayrant, Shell hits 1, on fire


< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/26/2015 2:32:37 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 1:23:30 PM   
vicberg

 

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And another fun game mechanic

2 days ago, I detected 2 TFs on the bases circled in white. Not much recon, but I went ahead and put some Vals out of Suva onto Naval Attack. Both hexes have Allied fighters and I got hammered again losing about 10 of the Vals plus another 6 operation losses. Since you can't control where Naval Attacks are going to occur, the only way to manage these types of CAP traps is to have enough fighters to sweep both possible locations, right?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/26/2015 2:24:28 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 1:28:23 PM   
vicberg

 

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And Pilot Training Weirdness

And here's another thing I've been struggling with. When you set to Escort (30%)/Training(30%) you are training you Air Rating. That's good.

However, when you set to Naval Attack/Training (30%), it goes to general training, which seems to me to be a waste. WTH? So the only way to do naval training (since little has been happening in this game for 8 months now) is to put them at 100% Training/Naval Attack in order to bump up naval torp/bombing rating, but then they can get surprised or aren't ready for a naval battle if something happens and you don't reset the mission from training to naval attack.

Am I missing something?

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/26/2015 2:30:33 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 1:36:30 PM   
Yakface


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

July 24th, 1942

Debacle
There's some real strangeness within this game, a sort of, what were they thinking. In an effort to surround Chungking, I put a AV 27 garrison unit into cross over the river in the last hexside that I don't control. That caused a shock attack because I haven't cross that hexside yet.

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 118597 troops, 1153 guns, 105 vehicles, Assault Value = 3444

Defending force 235804 troops, 752 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6919

Assault collapses, survivors seek cover

Japanese ground losses:
768 casualties reported
Squads: 37 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 14 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 13 (5 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
487 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

SoPac
Yesterday, I detected a TF about 10 hexes off Noumea and got a fish into a CL. Today, they make a run at Noumea and my CL SCTF intercept. I lose and yet again, my planes with good supply, good leaders and all assigned to the same HQ in the same hex, do not fly. What does it take to get stuff to do what you want in this game? Sacrifice more chickens? Oh both of these combats where within 2 hexes of Noumea and yet, planes don't fly.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Isle of Pines at 115,161, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara
CL Isuzu
CL Kiso
CL Ishikari, Shell hits 2
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hatsuharu
DD Kikuzuki

Allied Ships
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 1
DD Ralph Talbot
DD Selfridge, Shell hits 3
DD Mayrant

And another
Day Time Surface Combat, near Isle of Pines at 115,162, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 2
CL Kiso, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Ishikari, Shell hits 5
DD Umikaze, Shell hits 2
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatsuharu, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kikuzuki, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Newcastle, Shell hits 4
DD Ralph Talbot, Shell hits 1
DD Selfridge, Shell hits 1
DD Mayrant, Shell hits 1, on fire




For $#!($ and giggles use and HQ unit instead of a combat unit to close river crossing hexsides, or an arty unit (along with bombardment by units already in the hex. Had to outlaw both those in my last game

(in reply to vicberg)
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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 1:49:46 PM   
vicberg

 

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I'll do that.

I know what's going on with naval training. The code checks if the group has two missions and if the training % is set, then it sets the training to general (because there's 2 missions involved).

The defect is that the code is thinking that REST is a second mission (which it isn't, it's a default mission if you aren't doing anything else. it should say, no mission or something like that) and is therefore putting it into general training. So Naval Attack/Rest with a training % causes General Training. That's a defect. I'm surprised it was never fixed and maybe because there's a work around (just set primary to training and secondary to Naval Attack). But that's not a good work around, IMO.

The code should exclude REST as a second mission. So if you have two REAL missions and you set a training %, it goes to General Training. If your secondary mission is REST and you set a training %, then it sets the training to the primary mission.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/26/2015 3:39:51 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 2:04:25 PM   
vicberg

 

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Are there any active developers working on this game? I've heard MichaelM, but I've also heard that he's not around much anymore. I have some time right now and might offer pro bono for some of this.

This is too large of a game for these types of things to go on. The planes not flying, ok. Could have been weather (light rain) or bad dice rolls. I get that. But the training is simple fix. You can't set planes to naval attack because they won't fly if nothing is happening and won't train up. You can't set them to naval attack/training because you get general training which is a waste because the code is thinking that REST is a secondary mission and it isn't. So you have to micro-manage naval attack training. You need those sentai close the front to hopefully defend, but you can't just put them at naval attack for extended periods because they won't train, so you have to set to 100% training to get any training and they can now get surprised. This is a kinda major defect in my mind.

It's also becoming clear why Japanese players don't get a historical perimeter and defend. These types of issues put this type of strategy at a disadvantage. You have to push in order to get your all important naval attack bombers trained up. You need enemies. Otherwise, you have to set to training as primary mission and possibly get surprised or forget to micro-manage. I had 2 netties on naval attack and a zero sentai on escort out of Noumea. But I had other sentais of Vals/Kates within range, but they were set to 100% training. Also, I have Vals in Suva, but I can't use them because they could go after the cap traps and get nailed again because you have no control over what they attack. Serious limitations I'm starting to see with a defensive strategy in this game. The work around is you have to conquer enough surrounding bases to remove possible cap traps. Right now, my situation around Suva is untenable.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/26/2015 4:02:46 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 3:16:05 PM   
vicberg

 

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Ack, I'm starting to lose faith in this game again. The level of micro-management needed to work around some of the mechanics is getting to be just too much.

1) This naval attack training issue is major in my mind and really makes a defensive strategy difficult. Difficult to train up the all important naval attack pilots. Even more important with Carriers and Carriers at sea. Probably why my air losses overall have been so high is because of the challenges with training in general.
2) Lack of control over what you want planes to launch against. Cap Traps and the air mechanics have made bombers and escorts very vulnerable. Sweeps are mandatory but sweeping against multiple bases takes time to wear down and while that is going on, makes bases vulnerable to shore bombardment raids or even invasions. I don't remember this as being so dramatic 5 years ago. It seems to be now.
3) Rivers/Shock Attacks/Hexside control....nuff said.
4) Defensive CAP or trying to defend a multiple interlocking bases close together is difficult at best and the best answer I received was to go on the offense. Perhaps it's just crappy Japanese radar that prevents multiple bases from supporting each other.
5) Variable is the name of this game.

Starting to look to me that a defensive game isn't possible within the game mechanics. Offense offense offense and then stall the Allies as long as possible for defense.



< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/26/2015 4:17:00 PM >

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RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 4:18:27 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Hang in there.

Most of those things you dislike like training will soon become like breath. Something you do but doesn´t really pay attention to...the other things..well you get used to them too. Its just part of the game and the same troubles/issues are also plaguing your opponent. Try to see it more of a game and less as historical enactment and much of the bothers go away. At least they did for me.

Regarding defensive CAP there are some things to consider. Radar seems broken when it comes to offensive sweeps. I havn´t looked closely into this and it might just be a display error in the replay/CR. You can set up mutually supporting CAP in two ways. Either set CAP with a range or LRCAP specific bases from afar. Its not 100% though. Lots of checks to pass. As you also noticed there are dangers with doing pretty much anything in the air. Go sweeping and you might be caught on the ground and mutually supporting airfields are a very tough nut. It can be done but requires a lot of commitment and effort. IMO a good thing. The air war is pretty much the most complex part of the game. But its also the must fun part once you get the hang of it.

Shore bombardment is extremely powerful because CD guns and mines are so ineffective they hardly matter. But this is also true for you opponent. As with most things it goes both ways. So you can use that to you advantage too.

Personally I would like to see some adjustments to the game and some things fixed that isn´t working properly or is out of balance. But I´ve given up on that. You will have a much more enjoyable experience if you just accept that things are they way they are and it won´t change.

As I said. Hang in there and don´t give up. Focus on the things you enjoy.

PS. Defensive game is very much possible. The Allies do it for half the game and the Japanese for the second half!


< Message edited by JocMeister -- 8/26/2015 5:20:34 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 414
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 4:25:08 PM   
Simonsez


Posts: 110
Joined: 12/7/2011
Status: offline
(Pulls out personal soap box ad stands on it....)

Who said combat was easy? Who said orders are always carried out to the last letter? Who has perfect knowledge about how much is where and when? None of your complaints are game enders in any way shape or form and while maybe annoying, should not shake your faith in this wonderful game. A game of this scale and detail cannot possibly be perfect, nor should it be.


1) This naval attack training issue is major in my mind and really makes a defensive strategy difficult. Difficult to train up the all important naval attack pilots. Even more important with Carriers and Carriers at sea. Probably why my air losses overall have been so high is because of the challenges with training in general.

Do you think the Japanese or the Allies thought training up experienced pilots was easy? If anything, the game greatly simplifies this process. Attrition rate in pilot training was fairly high. For the US in WW2, the training attrition rate was nearly 40%. These men flew in unproven planes at the edge of design limits in some fo the most horrendous flying conditions that could ever be conceived, with very little margin for safety.

2) Lack of control over what you want planes to launch against. Cap Traps and the air mechanics have made bombers and escorts very vulnerable. Sweeps are mandatory but sweeping against multiple bases takes time to wear down and while that is going on, makes bases vulnerable to shore bombardment raids or even invasions. I don't remember this as being so dramatic 5 years ago. It seems to be now.

Where's the risk if the code always allowed you to magically avoid a cap trap? Is the opponent just s** out of luck if he plans a good cap trap? Are orders always clearly understood and always carried out to the last detail? No commander ever sought out glory in combat or ordered massive daylight bomber raids against heavily defended targets?

3) Rivers/Shock Attacks/Hexside control....nuff said.

Aside from airborne assaults a beach landing or river attack are the most complicated forms of land attack to carry out. There is a reason they were over planned and required significant investment in men, equipment, supplies and special training.

4) Defensive CAP or trying to defend a multiple interlocking bases close together is difficult at best and the best answer I received was to go on the offense. Perhaps it's just crappy Japanese radar that prevents multiple bases from supporting each other.

Bingo here. The Japanese were at a distinct advantage in detecting raids and coordinating response. This was in general very difficult in the PTO. Coordinated CAP was much more effective in the ETO where you had large concentrations of aircraft, AAA and radar/listening posts that were all interconnected by reliable communications and a near perfect understanding of local weather conditions. This did not exist anywhere in the PTO.

5) Variable is the name of this game.

Hammer meet nail.....live it, love it, embrace it. This is what makes this game so enjoyable.

(Steps down from soap box)

_____________________________

Simonsez

It's a trap!

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 415
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/26/2015 4:28:06 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline

(in reply to Simonsez)
Post #: 416
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/27/2015 12:35:51 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline
I'll stick with it. This game is a huge time commitment and it can be frustrating to find out the hard way what strategies work and don't work. So I'm readjusting and moving forward. It is a damn good game. I just expect it to be perfect I guess.


(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 417
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/27/2015 12:45:35 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline
July 26th, 1942

Aleutians

This is my first real operation after the initial expansion. The KB with 9 Carriers and 6 Light Carriers (in 3 cardivs) is 80 miles off Adak. Bill has been doing daily bombardments against Adak every day for weeks now. I get my first air victory in the last few months. Initial objectives are Ummak, Dora Habor and Cold Bay. Depending on success and extra fuel, I may push to Kodiak. Multiple invasion fleets, 3 infantry divs and a large surface fleet led by the Yamamoto are in route.

Morning Air attack on 82nd Naval Guard Unit, at 162,52 (Adak Island)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34

Allied aircraft
B-26 Marauder x 24
B-26B Marauder x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-26 Marauder: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
B-26B Marauder: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
80 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

And Again

Morning Air attack on 82nd Naval Guard Unit, at 162,52 (Adak Island)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 31

Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-26B Marauder: 4 destroyed

China

Chungking is now fully isolated. I'm seeing my first evidence of degradation of Chinese troops as his AV is going down for the first time. I'm waiting on 11 heavy artillery from Manchuko about 5-6 days out. I have a few units still not at 100% prep, so I'll be patient. Once the heavies get into Chungking, I'll bombard it for another week and then launch another attack. Paoshan fell so that's the last Chinese city along the Burma road which is now open. Th 25th Army will do some mop up after Chungking falls and then move into Burma.

Ground combat at Chungking (76,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 109017 troops, 1081 guns, 105 vehicles, Assault Value = 3472

Defending force 234205 troops, 745 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6811

Allied ground losses:
170 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 22 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/27/2015 2:18:39 PM >

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 418
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/27/2015 6:08:56 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

I'll stick with it. This game is a huge time commitment and it can be frustrating to find out the hard way what strategies work and don't work. So I'm readjusting and moving forward. It is a damn good game. I just expect it to be perfect I guess.


Good to hear!

(in reply to vicberg)
Post #: 419
RE: Did I wake that giant AGAIN? vicberg(j) vs. BillBr... - 8/28/2015 1:34:02 PM   
vicberg

 

Posts: 1176
Joined: 4/19/2008
Status: offline
July 28th, 1942

SoPac

Finally starting to see some success in the air. It's not stunning but I lost less than him and that's a victory the way the air war has gone for me. I checked the maneuver ratings of the planes and my planes are far more maneuverable at high altitudes. Starting to understand air mechanics a bit better.

Morning Air attack on Tongatapu , at 138,168

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 25
P-400 Airacobra x 13
P-40B Warhawk x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 3 destroyed

And another

Japanese aircraft
A6M3b Zero x 23

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 15
P-400 Airacobra x 9
P-40B Warhawk x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3b Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 3 destroyed
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 2 destroyed

And a 3rd

Japanese aircraft
A6M3b Zero x 15

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 7
P-400 Airacobra x 3
P-40B Warhawk x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3b Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-400 Airacobra: 1 destroyed
P-40B Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x A6M3b Zero sweeping at 31000 feet *

Aleutains

Umak has been built up to a 5 airfield. Same with Dora Harbor. Coal and Dutch Harbor haven't been touched. For right now, the plan is to secure both islands and Cold Bay, isolate Dutch Harbor and let land based air take over. Use surface to remove the CD guns and Dutch and invade Dutch. Kodiak, Seward and Anchorage have been built up and with 3 JP divs, it's very tempting to push into Alaska. The problem is that my logistics aren't the best, so fuel and supply would take time for a sustained operation like this. Also, the KB would be needed for Kodiak and Anchorage. Right now, the KB can leave after the airfields at Umak and Dora Harbor have been secured. Choices, Choices...If I don't push down to Alaska, the plan is to have the KB steam to Truk and then down to SoPac. I've realized that when defending, if the Allies have more bases against a particular base, it opens up opportunities to attack. So I'll need to take Tongatapu and those bases around Suva. Fuel is the major concern for me as always.

< Message edited by vicberg -- 8/28/2015 2:35:55 PM >

(in reply to JocMeister)
Post #: 420
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