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RE: Campaign for South Vietnam

 
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RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 8:12:41 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Turn 3 March 1965: III Corps and IV Corps

1: The VC Bn that took Cam Lanh last turn moves out of the loose cordon around it and heads northeast into the marshes. The Rangers that had been blocking to the north trail it
until another Ranger company airmobs in to form another cordon. The 7th ARVN division artillery and HQ reoccupy Cam Lanh and are in position for the bulk of its arty to engage
the VC. The furthest rangers are out of range of defensive support though and will have to rely on air support if attacked.

Early attacks show that the VC bn here only have about half strength remaining after the damage done to it last turn. Even though I did not bring up the nearby infantry
from the 7th ARVN (I wanted them located so they could react back towards Moc Hoa or the central delta) I will try to finish this unit off if preparatory fires go well. In the
end the Bn is destroyed but for some reason there is no advance and the hex is not converted. It will convert automatically next turn for being in my uncontested zone of control
but that will be after pacification checks and VP awards. At least I suffered no loss.

2: The remnants of two VC companies turn out to total less than a company and are easily killed but they just would not fold to an RBC. It may have cost me a single squad. Many
of the units involved here in Long An last turn lifted out early to Long Khanh province there are still six maneuver units tied down for the turn. Once I saw how weak the VC were
I could have lifted the Marines out and replaced them with some ranger companies. (Airmobile movement is awesome. Even after multiple combat rounds you can be very mobile
as long as you are lifting units that have not moved or attacked yet. In a perfect world you should keep some kind of airmobile reserve to take advantage of opportunities or to fix
disasters or things you just overlooked until late.) I felt that the rangers were needed where they were however so I sucked it up.

3: In Long Khanh province it took a bit of searching from the first units to lift in before I found the VC unit. I could not get good enough intel to determine its size so it took
even more patrolling to make sure that it had not split up. No artillery is available so I had to rely on air attacks to attrite the VC before attacking them. This was the focus of
almost all air not bombing the NVA this turn. Results were poor and in the end I decided I did not want to risk the likely exchange rates involved in an attack to finish them
this turn. I take consolation in the fact that none killed here next turn will go to Curt’s replacement pool.

4. About half the 173rd Abn Brigade arrives at ports near Saigon along with their skeleton helicopter unit. A battalion of these and a battalion of MPs move to bolster the
defenses of Saigon. Saigon has four battalions and the Chief of Staff unit to defend its self. It is proof against anything except a multi-regimental attack. This early in
the game that’s not coming before I can react. I still need to replace the screen I like to keep around the city. That and part of the interior defenses have been pulled
away to the fighting in Long An and Long Khanh.






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< Message edited by Narses -- 6/23/2015 9:28:58 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 31
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 9:35:58 AM   
Hyding

 

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Joined: 2/8/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

The level of detail in your reporting is outstanding and I highly
encourage you to continue. The war is more real when you
know the details. Thanks.


Thanks Larry. I have had some other posts and some PMs and emails so I guess my rambling is acceptable.
Actually for all you do keeping the forum active and for all the AARs/tests you do I would do it just to entertain you.

If Curt runs this long enough I might actually get half-assed at screenies.

Curt's next move will put us back at a 12 turn separation between game and AAR. That is a separation I am comfortable with maintaining.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 32
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 10:07:18 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		The deployment in this area has changed so much by turn 15 that I'll share this.








Throughout much of their range my heliports overlap each other and those areas of overlap have much greater lift available. Eventually as more lift units and replacements arrive they will be distributed to provide more uniform coverage, provide surge potential and to fill in any gray areas around the border regions.

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< Message edited by Narses -- 6/23/2015 11:29:18 AM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 33
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 10:36:56 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Limited sealift (and a missed click on the 173rd HQ) have left a bn of the 173rd its HQ/arty, the armored cav troop and the 3rd Marine armored bn still awaiting transport out of country.

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 34
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 11:07:04 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		On turns two and three my air assistant was turned on. I have never used it before from 2007 till now. I actually could not figure out why my air units kept wanting to attack Hanoi. I would turn the attacks off but every attack phase some more of them would try for a run. I managed to miss shutting down one attack each turn. On the bright side I sweep the MIGs aside and they are now a non issues for a bit. On the other hand the AAA hit the attacking aircraft pretty hard. The numbers involved were small but several air units drop into reorg. My F-111 and the SVAF C-119s are hurt and neither get any replacements for quite some time. Once I figure out what was going on (with Curt's gracious help) I make certain that will not reoccur..

The losses were small but it seems like the air units I would least want to send "downtown" were the ones that the air assistant would send.

< Message edited by Narses -- 6/23/2015 12:12:14 PM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 35
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 11:15:00 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		I was hoping Curt would send me a turn yesterday for my birthday but no such luck.

Just wanted to post something to get rid of the 666 post views. Clean up my luck before combat resolutions ya know.

< Message edited by Narses -- 6/23/2015 12:16:43 PM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 36
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 1:30:43 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Happy birthday William. And I wanted to discuss something you said about the
heli-lift and reinforcements. You said you wanted to distribute the helicopters
and the reinforcements uniformly so that the coverage was distributed evenly
across the country-side and I'm wondering if you might want to use a different
distribution coverage plan. I'm thinking that you might want to beef up those
high traffic areas at the expense of those out-of-the-way places that never
see much action. Like the areas where the VC sneak across the border from
the Ho Chi Minh trail to those emplacements closer to the border that are
easy to take down. So that some areas have more lift than some other areas.
I'm thinking it's justified. Just a thought.

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RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 6:01:24 PM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Let me point out that I said MORE uniform coverage. Perfect uniformity isn't really achievable or as you point out even desirable.

What I do want is the ability to move a purely airmobile force that can create a secure and airtight airmobile envelopment of a NVA or VC regt. That takes at least six battalions and at least some supporting artillery. A force like that will be needed whether the regt stays intact or splits apart. The ability to move at least one fire brigade like this almost anywhere in the country without preparation is an essential goal for me. There has to be something left over for other operations at the same time. As of turn four I can do that through much of the country but large areas can only be covered by brigade+ lift. For now that is sufficient since I have tried to make sure the areas with lower lift capacity are in areas with low threat or that can rely on a lot of units using conventional movement. An example of this is northern I Corps. With no overlap covering this area I sent the lift unit with the largest lift capacity here. This would still be insufficient to react to NVA regts and activity at multiple location simultaneously. This is a small operating area however and will tend to have a high density of US and ARVN units. Units in Quang Tri City can use conventional movement to reach almost anywhere in Quang Tri and Thau Thien provinces. Extra lift here is more often needed to save readiness/supply burn or to envelop really large (divisional) concentrations of enemy.

I do want the regt busting fire brigade lift to become the uniform MINIMUM lift though almost the entire country. The 12th Avn arrives with six lift units. These vary in lift capacity from 400+ to around a 1000 lift points (yeah my helicopter lift exceeds my sealift at this point in the game). I'm not going to get into the exact amount and location of my lift but....Four of these units and the slowly growing 17th lift are for general area coverage. The other two are for flexibility and to cover areas of high need. Since I invested so much in getting lift (it cost as many commitment points as all the US ground units I have committed so far) it will seldom be a problem it is the troops to lift that is an issue. For the near future by the time I can mass the troops to take advantage of increased lift I can have the lift in place to move them. At least the extra lift makes the ARVN marines and para more useful than they would have been with the limited early lift in versions 4.0 and 5.0.


< Message edited by Narses -- 6/23/2015 7:50:14 PM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 38
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 7:22:00 PM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		A little more esoteric stuff about airmobile lift in this scenario.

Some of these points are assumption based on experience if anyone know better please share.

It is only about 160 hexes from the DMZ to the bottom tip of An Xuyen province. Since transport helicopters have an operating range of 40 hexes. They can provide lift in a circle 80 hexes across. So theoretically two heliports could provide lift to the entire country (the whole hexes to the east and west screw that up). I have never quite gotten the size of units lifted and the lift available to total up exactly when I try to track it like I can with sea and air movement. It is always close though. Does anyone know if there is there another factor (like range actually carried) that factors in or was I just guesstimating wrong.

In addition a lift unit can lift a unit 40 hexes away and then move it 40 hexes further for a total range away from the copters base of 80 hexes. Of course since the copters can only go 40 hexes to pick it up next turn for a return trip. The ground unit will have to walk halfway back to the Avn unit unless another avn unit is available to provide lift or and unit moves in provide lift. You can move units outside your range to pick them back up. More often you see units moving from areas of high lift to areas of low lift and having to shuttle back.

Other than where to place the lift units here are some points you might want to consider in managing your lift capacity.

1. You do not choose which avn units provide lift for any particular airmobile move. The system does that.

2. I am fairly certain ground units draw lift from the closest lift unit first (have not adequately tested).

3. If you plan on moving lift units do it before any lifts are made. Once a lift unit is used it cannot move that turn. Also if it moves it cannot provide lift.

4. Make it a habit to move units with only one possible source of lift first. You don't want a unit with multiple lift sources in reach to use the last of a another units lift when the other unit has only one source of lift.

5. Make priority moves first. Don't get caught moving a unit back for 3 extra points of supply and not having the points to garrison a city or cut off the VC. Except the first turn or so I don't see anyone using a calculator to figure ALL of their lifts so play smart just in case. You will quickly develop a sense for this.


< Message edited by Narses -- 6/27/2015 6:31:29 AM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 39
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/23/2015 7:47:29 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Hey General: how about a sentence or two about your overall strategic plans for the entire country? You know,
how you expect the game to unfold as the years pass.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 6/24/2015 7:11:23 AM >

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RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/26/2015 1:15:00 PM   
Hyding

 

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Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		TURN 4 April 1965

The Monsoon begins.

EEV TOTAL: 14 EXPECTED INCREASE: None
VICTORY TOTAL: +1 Free World Allies
PACIFICATION VPs TOTAL: FWA 3/NLF 2 THIS TURN: FWA 1/NLF 1
ACTIONS DURING NLF REPLAY: 112
DMZ
This area brings about the first meeting of the US and the NVA regulars. I initiate no ground combat in game terms but for the troops involved in the patrolling/contacts that make the zones of control and spotting work it was combat enough.
During the NLF turn a NVA regiment clears Dong Ha. It remains in Dong Ha (which has no VP value). This will help Curt pressure my river line more by providing spotting for his artillery than from any ability to punch through with ground attacks. All three regts of the 308th NVA were spotted moving into the area during the NLF turn. They were not all identified but those are the only units they could be at this point. So Curt definitely has the potential to launch a damaging attack if he can find an exposed unit. This could be an expensive proposition if I have enough air units set for CAS. More likely the units will just provide a safe area and spotting for the divisional artillery while they get several turns of hex conversions in Quang Tri.

The artillery unit itself is the real threat. He makes any ground action against the infantry regts a very expensive proposition within his range. The 308th divisional arty has 81 artillery weapons that can total 1750 artillery factors. It starts at half strength but it is the only unit pulling from the 12 replacements a turn and should be approaching full strength. My operations around NVA units are always guided by finding out if there is artillery in the area and what its tube strength is. These units can punish me hard and relatively safely. This and their ability to influence both offensive and defensive operations makes them my highest priority targets in a turn almost without exception.

Below is a game start image of the 308th HQ/divisional artillery.





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< Message edited by Narses -- 6/26/2015 3:02:54 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/26/2015 1:23:21 PM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		1: With the unit at Dong Ha spotting the 308th arty hits the 3rd Regt of ARVN’s 1st Division. At the start of my turn the unit is still down 27 rifle squads and 15 105mm cannon. That last is particularly telling. The ARVN 1st is the only ARVN division with field guns assigned to the regiments. It makes the 1st stronger in ground combat but these guns won’t perform counter-battery when shelled. The infantry regts in this division become an even more valuable target than they would otherwise be.
The 1st ARVN is outgunned on its own and even if my air and other assests can give me a favorable exchange rate Curt is obviously willing to except it with his higher replacement rates. If nothing else he can draw airpower away from the guerilla war heating up further south.

2: I begin operations to address the 308th. It is a turn or two earlier than I would have liked. The 3rd Marines now have 7 maneuver bn in I Corps but two of these have already been involved in operations further south and the armored bn is still awaiting transport. Still tackling an NVA division is not a one turn project for me at this stage so I start developing the NVA position. Initially a single company copters into the blue circle. I knew there would be a unit to the NE but the one to the north was a bit of a surprise. Having found all the infantry units of the 308th my plans change. Originally I had intended for another company to use some combination airmobile and ground movement to enter Con Thien and search for the 308th’s arty and the regts I just located. It would then either hold there or withdraw west depending on what it found. As much as I want to find the arty this turn I am afraid putting US troops behind his infantry will just cause him to withdraw slightly. I’m afraid I can’t bring up enough troops to guarantee encircling and holding the two full strength regiments together. I want him to stay on this river line. So I abort the deeper moves.

Having decided not to go fishing behind his infantry I have to decide what to do with the company I used for my initial recon. I want the NLF arty to attack me not the ARVN. This is to save the 105s I mentioned earlier and other reasons. A single company might evaporate in one round under the massed guns or it might get RBC’d and still leave the NVA multiple combat rounds to attack the ARVN. This operation is about providing relief to the ARVN as well as preparing the 308th for destruction. Once I decided to stay and reinforce the hex I decided to just put in a battalion. Strong enough to survive but if I can induce a ground attack he will definitely stay and shell this hex instead of the ARVN. One battalion staring down two NVA regts and massed artillery. If he stays I’m getting what I asked for in more ways than one.

The 3rd Marine divisional artillery entered the fray last turn without fully stocking up once getting in-country. It withdraws to higher supply areas to rearm. It is replaced however by artillery units of its 3rd and 4th regts. This will at least give me parity in arty weapons (in arty units) if not shell weight. Air units pound the western NVA regts with most of them breaking off before the turn end to guarantee they are available for CAS in Curt’s turn there will be no interdiction on turn 5 all CAS. The ARVN and 3rd Marine guns fire throughout the turn but the 4th regt prepares for defensive support before turns end. The cruiser force again withdraws out or range after providing some support.

The fresh NVA in the west are reduced to around 2/3 strength with the westernmost drawing less fire and being a little better off. The 36th NVA regt at Dong Ha is closer to 1/2 strength after two turns of loving attention from the Navy and Marines.





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< Message edited by Narses -- 6/26/2015 3:14:21 PM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 42
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 6/26/2015 5:20:38 PM   
Hyding

 

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Joined: 2/8/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Hey General: how about a sentence or two about your overall strategic plans for the entire country? You know,
how you expect the game to unfold as the years pass.


I'm going to try to address this with as little reference to the pacification VPs and EEV clock as possible because I realize I will probably be doing that to death in other posts (they are important).

First of all the NFL player cannot be forced out of the game other than by breaking a player's spirit (it is a long game). Since Curt has a proven record of finishing this beast I have to realize that no amount of early success will clinch the game for me. The game is structured to cause a US withdrawal at some point. This version has taken some steps to both make this more likely and likely to occur sooner (commitment costs have been raise as a whole and favorable EEV modifiers can only be reached at 60vp instead of 40v0). This means that the FWA player must always play the game with the expectation that ARVN will have to go it alone at some point.

TO make sure ARVM has the most units and most replacements possible when the US leaves the I will try to take casualties with US forces instead of ARVN at every opportunity. It is true that the US units are more mobile and are 100% certain to be active each turn but they are going to leave at some point. Every time the US takes a loss instead of ARVN the ARVN endgame strength has essentially been increase by that much.

By the same token I want to maximize the losses of the NLF player. Every NFL squad I can eliminated while the US in on the board is one that won't be around when the war becomes a purely Vietnamese affair. The problem is that I have to force the NFL to fight to produce these casualties. There is really only one way to do this.

BY WINNING THE PACIFICATION FIGHT. The NLF can lay low when the US has too much power on the board but he cannot ignore the free VP the Free World Allies get for the pacification and security programs the game assumes are going on. In addition if the US player can get a 60+ VP and keep it his time on the map is greatly extended. So as much as the US should hate spending commitment points he wants to spend enough to keep the NLF from interfering with the pacification program.

Whenever possible I will use air or artillery to do the actual killing. Ground forces will have the role of reconverting hexes and finding, fixing and holding any NFL units in country. US ground forces will of course have to attack to clear areas in a timely manner and they will have to hold the most vulnerable positions to spare ARVN casualties but their role is intended to be more of "hold them by the nose" while the heavy firepower "kicks them in the ass".

< Message edited by Narses -- 6/26/2015 10:28:14 PM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 43
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/2/2015 9:06:17 PM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Turn 4 April 1965
Delta North

A new VC Bn appears NW of Cam Lanh. It attacks across the river targeting the northernmost ARVN Rangers that had just completed mopping up the previous VC unit in the area. The Rangers are not dug in but the river and apparently some defensive air support allow them to hold with little or no loss. The VC withdraw NE into the marshes and disappear. I am going to let him go unpursued. The results he got against the rangers this turn might discourage him but there may be another VC Bn nearby from Kien Toung province this turn or next to help him. I’m also not ready to convert VC territory here that I do not have the resources yet to regularly contest. The rangers have already lifted out this turn since they are needed elsewhere to free up regular ARVN units for regimental sized action to the south. I do not want to pull any of the nearby 7th division troops from their garrison positions or burn their supplies in an inconclusive action. I need all my limited air assets in higher priority actions elsewhere. It all adds up to no pursuit here this turn. I also don’t want any CAS diverted next turn defending small ranger units when it may be needed for NVA and VC regimental sized attacks elsewhere.

The ARVN 7th division arty has used almost all supply and needs to replenish. Unfortunately for it and its nearby bns this is a low supply area. I will wait for the VC to reemerge in my territory and when hopefully more airmobile troops are available for use here.

It was still a smart little attack by Curt. The ARVN rangers do not reconstitute and receive very limited replacements. It was a chance to hurt or destroy a valuable (but small) unit. There were no vulnerable cities in reach as alternate targets. The attack also has the potential to distract resources form other larger scraps in other areas.







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< Message edited by Narses -- 7/3/2015 3:10:08 AM >

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Post #: 44
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/3/2015 4:32:05 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		Turn 4: April 1965 Monsoon turn

End of US turn

Central Delta

The blue ovals are areas where the 9th and 21st ARVN conducted operations and engaged VC units in turns one and two (Jan/Feb 1965). The red ovals are areas where the VC converted hexes this turn. The two eastern most were converted by a VC Regiment that moved from north to south. It showed up repeatedly during the replay and would have been easy to track playing with either procession on or procession off. The more westerly hex conversion was made by a political section. A battalion from the 9th ARVN runs the tiny pol section down and eliminates it in some combination of RBC or combat. That will turn out to be the last simple elimination I will get against a pol section for quite some time.

The regiment started within a couple of hexes of Cam Tho. Cam Tho however is always well defended. It is the only allied supply center south of the Mekong and tends to draw units to its vicinity to replenish. In addition it is the major heliport south of Saigon and one of only two bridges across the Mekong is located in an adjacent hex. It is also a central area for dispatching airmobile or ground units around the Delta. I knew the only VC regimental size force appearing early in the delta was due to appear near here soon (multi-battalion groups are possible however). For these reasons and the need to resupply after early actions most of the 9th ARVN had begun shifting in this direction. Most of the 21st ARVN had taken up garrison positions or remained in or east of Chuong Thien to monitor the residual VC and keep them from converting hexes in Kien Gang province. So there were several bns of the 9th located along the road from Chuong Thien City and Cam Tho. One bn ran down the pol section and the others along with the divisional arty pursued attacked the VC regt from the north. They were joined by one bn from the 7th ARVN which happened to be passing through while headed to a garrison city to the NW. By running south the VC gained distance from the pursuers and converted a hex in a second province. They were cut off to the south by 21st ARVN Bns which had been garrisoning multi-VP point cities along the coast since my earliest moves. No airmobile was needed to complete the encirclement but the Marine brigade coptered in and reformed as a brigade to add punch and to allow the regulars to form a compete regiment in another hex.
I tried to use as little air as possible during prep but since this hex had a better chance to score for Curt than the NVA to the north I was going to give it priority of fire if needed. In the end 10 bn equivalents against 3 and the final impulse fire from the division arty let me clear the regt out with the loss of about a bn worth of ARVN.

The red line south of T2 indicates hexes converted by the Chuong Thien VC. This did not show in the replay and escaped my attention. A hex is converted in Bac Lieu as well as Chuong Thien by this group of VC. I thought in versions of the scenario before 4.0 and 5.0 units that converted hexes would always show in the replay. That could be a false memory but it led me to being a bit complacent for the first few turns until I realized that it is definitely not true in 5.0.





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< Message edited by Narses -- 7/3/2015 5:50:10 AM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 45
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/3/2015 4:39:47 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Narses
I thought in versions of the scenario before 4.0 and 5.0 units that converted hexes would always show in the replay. That could be a false memory but it led me to being a bit complacent for the first few turns until I realized that it is definitely not true in 5.0.

What was the symptom that showed you that there was a problem? Did you not see the units passing through or entering the hex?
Is there a bug with the exe that needs to be fixed here?

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 7/3/2015 5:40:34 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 46
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/3/2015 5:03:48 AM   
Hyding

 

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Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Narses
I thought in versions of the scenario before 4.0 and 5.0 units that converted hexes would always show in the replay. That could be a false memory but it led me to being a bit complacent for the first few turns until I realized that it is definitely not true in 5.0.

What was the symptom that showed you that there was a problem? Did you not see the units passing through or entering the hex?
Is there a bug with the exe that needs to be fixed here?


I'm not sure that there is a PROBLEM but there is a difference. In truth I did not note this in version 4.0 that came with TOAW 3.4. My play with that was limited. It is not that easy to notice when playing with possession not shown. Curt elected to play this game with possession visible. When important areas I knew were clear suddenly show VC control I will know if it was in the replay or not. I track the replay very closely. After it surfaced more than once I started rechecking the replays. NLF units can convert hexes without becoming visible in the replay or becoming visible in the Allied turn.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 47
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/3/2015 5:15:46 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		I guess we just have to patrol a bit more and look harder for clues.

So far I have only noted this with guerilla units and not NVA regulars. I just assumed it was a change in spotting introduced in TOAW 3.4





< Message edited by Narses -- 7/3/2015 6:21:10 AM >

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Post #: 48
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/3/2015 6:28:24 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 39932
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Narses
So far I have only noted this with guerilla units and not NVA regulars. I just assumed it was a change in spotting introduced in TOAW 3.4

That's my understanding. So when I'm moving the VC units I'll move it one hex and then switch to a different unit any different unit and then switch back to my original VC unit and I notice that it WILL have converted the hex. Then I move it another hex and do the same
thing........that way I can "document" my trail. I'm thinking it only converts the hex it stops movement in.

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Post #: 49
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 7/3/2015 11:52:56 AM   
Hyding

 

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/8/2008
Status: offline 		TURN 5: May 1965……Monsoon turn
EEV TOTAL: 14…….EXPECTED INCREASE: None
VICTORY TOTAL: +2 Free World Allies
PACIFICATION VPs TOTAL: FWA 4/NLF 2……….. THIS TURN: FWA 1/NLF 0
ACTIONS DURING NLF REPLAY: 48
DMZ End of NLF Turn

Actually the EEV total has just increased to 14. I spent the last point committing the 3rd Brigade of the US 82nd Airborne Division (another independent bde). It arrives this turn and boards ships for II Corps. I probably should have committed it a turn sooner there was room at the stateside shipping port. That way it could have already been building up its supply and readiness even if shipping was not available. I delayed to give myself one more turn to consider where to deploy it in SVN and to give myself another turn to consider bringing in one of the independent brigades with more armor. The 3/82nd mirrors the 173rd Abn Bde in structure. Four airmobile infantry bn, a ranger company, an armored cavalry troop, a skeleton formation of lift copters and the HQ/arty unit with 18 105mm guns. I have now completed my planned early buildup mentioned in my pregame notes with the projected units. I have saved two EEV points by not starting the EEV clock by spending 15 commitment points on turn one and by not triggering the early commitment penalty (so far).

The NVA shell my most advanced marine battalion for three combat rounds. Two of the NVA regiments then RBC it in turn with each causing a company to evaporate. The last marine company withdraws south of the river with about 90% of the battalion's rifle strength missing. I’m sure I have had a US battalion destroyed in a single turn playing this scenario before but I can’t recall it. It certainly was not full strength if it happened in another game. Curt did not have to move his arty or infantry and basically got an extra impulse out of the turn. Another company could have been saved if the unit had retreated towards its HQ and a supporting bn retreat towards a supply points seems to have taken precedence. I should have put another bn on the river line to guarantee the survivors a quicker way out.

There are essentially no replacements available for the marine heavy rifle squads. Since the remaining company is so very fragile I go ahead and disband it. At least this way it can contribute something to other damaged units.





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< Message edited by Narses -- 7/3/2015 1:00:09 PM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 50
RE: Campaign for South Vietnam - 10/22/2015 9:14:30 PM   
Tcao

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 10/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Narses

Yes the ARVN rangers, the marine division and the para division are airmobile. In the next 5 turns of the game those units are the only way I can keep my head above water. Buying the 12th Avn units lets me use them to the fullest starting on turn 4 and really from turn 3 since I used them mostly near where I first placed some 12th Avn units when they first arrived. Without the 12th Avn lift capacity will only grow a little by about 110 pts a turn.

In this fantastic scenario, most of the US Army Inf Bn, Marine Bn and all of the ARVN Ranger, marine, Para are airmobile.
But they are different with each other. I noticed the OOB of ARVN Para and US army regular inf bn contain some 4.2 inch mortar, default TOAW equipment setting describe 4.2 inch mortar as "airmobile/need transport",
so if you drop these units off the helicopters, the MP will immediately become 0, you can only transport these units to the destination but can't attack or dig in at the same turn.

US marine, airborne, air cav and ARVN marine do not have the same problem, the largest tube they have is 106mm RR (which don't need land transport to move) in their OOB.




< Message edited by Chicom Redneck -- 10/22/2015 10:15:43 PM >

(in reply to Hyding)
Post #: 51
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