RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Scourge of War: Waterloo >> RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable?

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RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/12/2015 8:44:56 AM

JamesLxx

Posts: 79
Joined: 12/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oho

I see almost only line formation when AI controlled troops move around on the battlefield. This results after 10 Minutes of almost each scenario (sandbox or waterloo) in overlapping lines, battalion lines changing forming rings(!), and wheeling when engaged very often. This really kills immersion for me and makes the game not at all enjoyable to play.
Question: Can I change the AI behaviour by modding so that it uses column in division almost all the time, only when very close to the enemy it tries to form a line, can I prevent it from wheeling too?
If so: is there a release date for the modding-tool already. Until then I think I have to put the game on the shelf.
Can you somehow confirm that with the deveoping team?

I totally agree with oho's original post. Its the over reaction of individual regiments which causes the tangled and crossed confusion with regiments wheeling at amazing speed every minute. Ask yourself - Is this a realistic portrayal of a Napoleonic battle? You've got to imagine what it takes to move masses of men: the inertia of large formations - they are not as instantly responsive in real life as they appear to be in this game. The basic SOP of any Napoleonic officer was to maintain formation at every level.

When SDK comes out hopefully this over reactivity can be resolved, because I too cant take it seriously in its present state.

(in reply to oho_slith)

Post #: 31

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 10:54:25 AM

oho_slith

Posts: 60
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline

Thanks, finally someone sees the major issue of this game like me. There are many very good features, but these overlapping lines should be solved. I tried to take comand and move a battalion manually in column by division into shooting distance, but it automatically moves into line formation and only after it starts firing. This was often not the case on the battle field and staying in column of division perhaps resolves the issue of overlapping lines because there simply is more space to manouver. I will ask if that can be modded in the NSD forum too.

(in reply to JamesLxx)

Post #: 32

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 10:58:20 AM

pjsynnott

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/4/2005
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Agreed, formations do seem to have a bit of an ADHD problem when it comes to maintaining their shape, even allowing for the chaos and confusion of the battlefield.

(in reply to oho_slith)

Post #: 33

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 11:57:38 AM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I agree all the video from the time shows how disciplined the formations were...oh wait...there is no video. I am just curious how anyone can make a judgement on something like formation status. I can understand the sorrow and wailing about uniforms and weapons, and even what a formation looked like, but how does anyone have a basis for complaining about someone else's modeling of how the formation reacts in battle?

(in reply to pjsynnott)

Post #: 34

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 1:35:02 PM

JamesLxx

Posts: 79
Joined: 12/12/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

I agree all the video from the time shows how disciplined the formations were...oh wait...there is no video. I am just curious how anyone can make a judgement on something like formation status. I can understand the sorrow and wailing about uniforms and weapons, and even what a formation looked like, but how does anyone have a basis for complaining about someone else's modeling of how the formation reacts in battle?

A basis for complaint? Well...simple common sense is my immeadiate reaction!

Ok you mentioned Video. Just watch any video of a large scale reenactment and try to imagine the formations behaving as they do in the game. Prahaps any reenactors here could comment on the actual practicalities of wheeling a regiment large angles every 30 seconds while engaged with the enemy.

< Message edited by JamesL -- 6/14/2015 2:35:43 PM >

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 35

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 2:07:10 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
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Reenactments are COMPLETELY different than a real battle for fear of life and limb is close at hand. I'm just saying there sure is a lot of gnashing of teeth over an opinion on a game that can be purchased or not about something that no one alive really knows much about.

(in reply to JamesLxx)

Post #: 36

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 7:08:11 PM

oho_slith

Posts: 60
Joined: 1/1/2006
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thewood1: do you think battalions could march through each other - in line - while turning - without getting totally in disorder. They are NO marching bands that train a manouvre crossing formations on a football field for many years

Don't you think the officers will try to keep enough space between the battalions to avoid this situation. That's why they created formations like column of division, column of platoon, which makes sense in my eyes.
Here is webside with some explenation and pictures, perhaps that helps:
http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleonistyka.atspace.com/infantry_tactics_4.htm

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 37

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 7:11:28 PM

zakblood

Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
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great link ty, some good info there and some interesting info on Rifles

< Message edited by zakblood -- 6/14/2015 8:12:07 PM >

(in reply to oho_slith)

Post #: 38

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 7:43:20 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
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Still didn't see any video from 1815.

(in reply to zakblood)

Post #: 39

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 8:18:54 PM

76mm

Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1
Still didn't see any video from 1815.

You're seriously suggesting that just because we don't have video of something we can't draw any conclusions about how things should have--perhaps must have--worked in days past?

Anyone who has drilled with troops, even in modern day ceremonial drills, can attest that it is not easy to control large bodies of men in formation--in the chaos of combat, I would suspect (notwithstanding the lack of video confirmation) that it would be more difficult, not less.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 40

RE: Dissapointed of formation, moddable? - 6/14/2015 8:38:56 PM

pjsynnott

Posts: 45
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

Still didn't see any video from 1815.

There are plenty of first-hand accounts from 1815, though, and also drill books and tactical diagrams. I don't recall reading any which describe how battalions twitched this way and that unable to decide which way to face or about battalions constantly getting under each others' feet. Nor do I recall reading such descriptions in any of the histories I've read. In the interests of the pursuit of truth, though, I'm happy to be stand corrected if provided with appropriate references.

To be serious, I think this may also be in some part down to some tweaking that needs to be done to formations, and also perhaps poor generalship on the part of AI sub-commanders, and also players themselves, myself included. Maybe if we were more careful not to present open flanks to the enemy in the first place, there wouldn't be so many opportunities for confusion to arise about which way to face.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 41