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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: OT-Rising Sun

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RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/15/2015 4:35:55 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

For those that care

http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika

It's odd that the swastika was an ancient India (as in Asia) symbol of good luck and still is. I wonder if that history for the 45th is mistaken. The swastika can be seen on headstones etc. from India and the Nazis took it as an Aryan symbol for that reason.

The swastika design is used in Native American pottery works as well. Hopi, IIRC. Not sure which predated which. I doubt there was a great cultural legacy between Hopi and (eastern) Indian cultures. This design may very well represent independent cultural development and legacy.

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(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 31

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/15/2015 7:40:19 PM

geofflambert

Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline

You just never know everything. We know the Vikings were here before Columbus, and we know the Chinese very well might have been before that. We know the Roman Empire had communications of various sorts with the Far East. If the North American swastika looked like an Asian one, it's probably no coincidence (IMO).

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 32

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/16/2015 12:22:07 AM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

For those that care

http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika

quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
It's odd that the swastika was an ancient India (as in Asia) symbol of good luck and still is. I wonder if that history for the 45th is mistaken. The swastika can be seen on headstones etc. from India and the Nazis took it as an Aryan symbol for that reason.

It's a case of parallel evolution. I have heard speculation that it may be evidence of visitors to the west coast of North America from Asia. In any case, the same symbol shows up in both places before the Age of Exploration.

In any case, symbols only have power when people give them power. You could show up at protest rallies with a flag with an abstract squiggle on it and you would just be the weird guy with the weird flag unless the protestors decided to rally around that symbol, then the abstract squiggle would become the symbol that signifies the movement.

As wargamers, we see a rectangular box with an oval in it and another with an X in it and we think: armor unit and infantry unit. They have meaning to anyone who knows much about military matters because they have become fairly common in that world. To someone with little knowledge of that world, they mean nothing. I asked my SO what a rectangle with an oval inside meant and she was stumped. She didn't have a clue. She doesn't know much about military stuff, so she had never encountered the symbol and it had no meaning to her.

Bill

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WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to geofflambert)

Post #: 33

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/17/2015 6:05:37 PM

rockmedic109

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline

I am not a fan of any such bans. Any ban will eventually lead to more items being banned. Soon, things with only a tenuous connection to the offensive actions will be banned.

Eventually deniers will begin to show up. And without evidence to the contrary because such evidence is banned, the deniers will be able to gain more converts.

And once again, a human culture will not have learned from history and be doomed to repeat it.

(in reply to wdolson)

Post #: 34

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/17/2015 7:13:27 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

This one is for Warspite:

If wars were won by feasting,
Or victory by song,
Or safety found,
by sleeping sound
How England would be strong!
But honour and dominion
Are not maintained so,
They're only got by sword and shot
And this the Dutchmen know!

The moneys that should feed us
You spend on your delight,
How can you then,
have sailor-men
To aid you in your fight?
Our fish and cheese are rotten,
Which makes the scurvy grow
We cannot serve you if we starve,
And this the Dutchmen know!

Our ships in every harbour
Be neither whole nor sound,
And when we seek to mend a leak,
No oakum can be found,
Or, if it is, the caulkers,
And carpenters also,
For lack of pay have gone away,
And this the Dutchmen know!

Mere powder, guns and bullets,
we scarce can get at all;
Their price was spent in merriment
And revel at Whitehall,
While we in tattered doublets
From ship to ship must row,
Beseeching friends for odds and ends
And this the Dutchmen know!

No King will heed our warnings,
No Court will pay our claims
Our King and Court for their disport
Do sell the very Thames!
For, now De Ruyter's topsails
Off naked Chatham show,
We dare not meet him with our fleet
And this the Dutchmen know!

warspite1

I am afraid it's meaning is lost on me. I gather this is something to do with the navy's defeat at the hands of the Dutch fleet in the Medway, but I am afraid the words kind of fly over my head. Sorry.....

warspite1

Care to enlighten me Cannonfodder?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 35

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/17/2015 10:51:08 PM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

For those that care

http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika

I've been to OKC many times for work, and just about every trip I find time to visit. I've seen it many times and I'll go again. Its a good little museum.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 36

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/17/2015 11:51:48 PM

Reg

Posts: 2787
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: NSW, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

This one is for Warspite:

If wars were won by feasting,
Or victory by song,
Or safety found,
by sleeping sound
How England would be strong!
But honour and dominion
Are not maintained so,
They're only got by sword and shot
And this the Dutchmen know!

The moneys that should feed us
You spend on your delight,
How can you then,
have sailor-men
To aid you in your fight?
Our fish and cheese are rotten,
Which makes the scurvy grow
We cannot serve you if we starve,
And this the Dutchmen know!

Our ships in every harbour
Be neither whole nor sound,
And when we seek to mend a leak,
No oakum can be found,
Or, if it is, the caulkers,
And carpenters also,
For lack of pay have gone away,
And this the Dutchmen know!

Mere powder, guns and bullets,
we scarce can get at all;
Their price was spent in merriment
And revel at Whitehall,
While we in tattered doublets
From ship to ship must row,
Beseeching friends for odds and ends
And this the Dutchmen know!

No King will heed our warnings,
No Court will pay our claims
Our King and Court for their disport
Do sell the very Thames!
For, now De Ruyter's topsails
Off naked Chatham show,
We dare not meet him with our fleet
And this the Dutchmen know!

Rudyard Kipling

_____________________________

Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 37

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/18/2015 12:31:32 AM

Justus2

Posts: 729
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

For those that care

http://45thdivisionmuseum.com/Swastika

I've been to OKC many times for work, and just about every trip I find time to visit. I've seen it many times and I'll go again. Its a good little museum.

It is a neat museum, visted years ago when my unit was attached to 45th Brigade (the successor unit) for an exercise. Some moving photos and stories of when they liberated one of the concentration camps (I think it was Dachau).

_____________________________

Playing/Learning Shadow Empire

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 38

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/18/2015 1:52:47 AM

MrKane

Posts: 790
Joined: 3/9/2013
From: West Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Haiti, 1791-1804
Lost. French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare: �When in doubt, send an ally.�

Well, a lot of Poles died there, however most of them joined Haitians and help them fight off France occupation forces :D
Poles always fight for freedom and mostly on loosing side. This was one of very few episode in our military history that we actually won :D

Those Poles who did not joined Haitians were captured by British and become RN sailors.
Only a few have return to Europe.

< Message edited by MrKane -- 7/18/2015 2:52:28 AM >

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)

Post #: 39

RE: OT-Rising Sun - 7/18/2015 2:53:45 AM

Justus2

Posts: 729
Joined: 11/12/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrKane

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Haiti, 1791-1804
Lost. French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare: �When in doubt, send an ally.�

Well, a lot of Poles died there, however most of them joined Haitians and help them fight off France occupation forces :D
Poles always fight for freedom and mostly on loosing side. This was one of very few episode in our military history that we actually won :D

Those Poles who did not joined Haitians were captured by British and become RN sailors.
Only a few have return to Europe.

MrKane,
Your description of Poles fighting for freedom reminded me of a quote I saw when I was in Poland training with 10th Armored Cav Bde. I spent two months in Swietosow, then deployed to Afghanistan with them. They had a memoral to GEN Maczek on their base, and his quote was:
"The Polish soldier fights for the freedom of all nations but dies only for Poland"
(Looked it up to get the wording right). Very interesting story learning about him while I was there, and the pride of the Polish Soldiers in their heritage.

_____________________________

Playing/Learning Shadow Empire

(in reply to MrKane)

Post #: 40