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RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/23/2017 10:52:37 PM   
darbycmcd

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 12/6/2005
Status: offline 		CR, I agree. It is disgusting that we are subject to a majority opinion that wants to maintain monuments to a treasonous secession movement which had as its genesis the perpetuation of slavery. Minority people, such as african americans, must live under the unblinking eyes of statues which were for the most part put up in the Jim Crow era as expression of the intolerance and hate you mention. The battle is lost... for the Lost Cause dead-enders.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 181
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/23/2017 10:53:16 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've talked and typed way too much today. Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too much. I've irritated myself.

Cortisone cream is good for that.


Please, no more dangly-bit allusions.

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Post #: 182
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/23/2017 11:03:21 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

CR, I agree. It is disgusting that we are subject to a majority opinion that wants to maintain monuments to a treasonous secession movement which had as its genesis the perpetuation of slavery. Minority people, such as african americans, must live under the unblinking eyes of statues which were for the most part put up in the Jim Crow era as expression of the intolerance and hate you mention. The battle is lost... for the Lost Cause dead-enders.

Dont forget to burn the books.

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Post #: 183
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 5:58:05 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Dont forget to burn the books.

Oh, that has already begun. But that they do as silently as they can since here they fear public opinion.

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Post #: 184
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 6:14:09 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

CR, I agree. It is disgusting that we are subject to a majority opinion that wants to maintain monuments to a treasonous secession movement which had as its genesis the perpetuation of slavery. Minority people, such as african americans, must live under the unblinking eyes of statues which were for the most part put up in the Jim Crow era as expression of the intolerance and hate you mention. The battle is lost... for the Lost Cause dead-enders.
warspite1

So I ask again, where does it end and who, on this faux moral crusade to re-write our past, actually decides? What do you do about slave owners like George Washington? Why are Lee, Nelson, Columbus proposed as fair game if Washington isn't? Have you read some of Washington's comments on his slaves? Just try and follow this nonsense down its logical path (as logical as this gets - which isn't very) and see where we end up.

Still it will create lots of employment - think of all those street names, buildings, warships that need re-naming. That'll keep the map makers busy - and boy will Wikipedia need a lot of new contributors.

Problems that remain in society don't get fixed by re-writing history. They get fixed by confronting the past, recognising the journey and striving to get where we want to be.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/24/2017 4:19:49 PM >

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Post #: 185
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 6:32:37 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

Looks like you can add Christopher Columbus (mean to indigenous people) and Ulysses S. Grant (anti-Semite) to the list of "symbols of hate".

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/christopher-columbus-statue-new-york-city-could-be-considered-removal-n795316?cid=par-xfinity_20170823


Dear Lord...


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 186
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 6:46:23 AM   
Amoral

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/28/2010
Status: offline 		It's a false dilemma to say the US had to either invade Japan or nuke Japan. Japan would have surrendered if offered even semi-reasonable terms.

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Post #: 187
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 7:01:07 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Amoral

It's a false dilemma to say the US had to either invade Japan or nuke Japan. Japan would have surrendered if offered even semi-reasonable terms.

What evidence is there for that? I just watched a documentary on the development and use of the atomic bomb which said that even after the second (Nagasaki) bomb the hardliners in the Japanese Cabinet wanted to fight to the death. They even wanted to defy the emperor's speech. There were just enough that wanted to obey the emperor to decide to surrender if the Allies would allow the emperor to remain head of state. Surrender was supposed to be unconditional but Truman accepted the emperor remaining condition and ended the war - the implication being that if he stuck to "unconditional surrender" the Japanese would have fought on. Even without the A-bomb air raids were devastating Japanese cities and killing tens of thousands. I don't see "ready to capitulate" as a sure thing without the bomb.

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Post #: 188
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 7:04:22 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		I hope there are no statues or monuments or public buildings dedicated to the memory of Oppenheimer, Truman etc....



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Post #: 189
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 1:16:39 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

CR, I agree. It is disgusting that we are subject to a majority opinion that wants to maintain monuments to a treasonous secession movement which had as its genesis the perpetuation of slavery. Minority people, such as african americans, must live under the unblinking eyes of statues which were for the most part put up in the Jim Crow era as expression of the intolerance and hate you mention. The battle is lost... for the Lost Cause dead-enders.
warspite1

So I ask again, where does it end and who, on this moral crusade to re-write our past, actually decides? What do you do about slave owners like George Washington? Why are Lee, Nelson, Columbus proposed as fair game if Washington isn't? Have you read some of Washington's comments on his slaves? Just try and follow this nonsense down its logical path (as logical as this gets - which isn't very) and see where we end up.

Still it will create lots of employment - think of all those street names, buildings, warships that need re-naming. That'll keep the map makers busy - and boy will Wikipedia need a lot of new contributors.

Problems that remain in society don't get fixed by re-writing history. They get fixed by confronting the past, recognising the journey and striving to get where we want to be.




Considering the capital of the country they "govern" is named after Washington, imagine the consequences. Maybe they can rename it Freedom Fries, D.C. That seemed to work well before.

Mike


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Post #: 190
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 1:18:24 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		I, personally, think it's absolutely ridiculous to have statues of men that tried to destroy our nation, on "gov't" property.

I don't care if Robert E. Lee was for or against slavery, I don't care if he was a good man or a bad man by todays or 1860s standard of judgement. In my opinion, the man was a traitor, nothing more nothing less. As as a result, not one single gov't penny or parcel of gov't land should should have his (or any other Confederate leader) image, likeness, bust, statue etc. on it... unless it's in a museum or a history book.

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Post #: 191
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 1:18:59 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darbymcd

CR, I agree. It is disgusting that we are subject to a majority opinion that wants to maintain monuments to a treasonous secession movement which had as its genesis the perpetuation of slavery. Minority people, such as african americans, must live under the unblinking eyes of statues which were for the most part put up in the Jim Crow era as expression of the intolerance and hate you mention. The battle is lost... for the Lost Cause dead-enders.





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Post #: 192
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 1:36:14 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I, personally, think it's absolutely ridiculous to have statues of men that tried to destroy our nation, on "gov't" property.

I don't care if Robert E. Lee was for or against slavery, I don't care if he was a good man or a bad man by todays or 1860s standard of judgement. In my opinion, the man was a traitor, nothing more nothing less. As as a result, not one single gov't penny or parcel of gov't land should should have his (or any other Confederate leader) image, likeness, bust, statue etc. on it... unless it's in a museum or a history book.


This is the crux, that all the "Washington, Jefferson . . ." apologists miss. The Confederacy was a traitorous enterprise. It was never a nation (see USSC decision.) The officers of the CSA, especially Lee, were traitors by the plain wording of the US Constitution. Put the statues in museums, with plaques explaining they were traitors. Get them off public streets and out of public parks.

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The Moose

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Post #: 193
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 1:49:38 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		For the sake of forum peace just drop this topic. Nothing good will come out of it.

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Post #: 194
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 2:32:34 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		We should not hide reality. Some (not all - some) who want to remove or change various icons are very bigoted in various ways but seem to pushing for some sort of false purity, almost as though it justifies their own bigotry. What will come of doing so is worse bigotry and extremism as reasoned perspectives are replaced by emotional lynch-mobbing. I will shut up now.

Condoleezza Rice on Slave Owner Statue Purge: ‘It’s a Bad Thing’
“I’m a firm believer in keep your history before you,” Rice answered. “And so, I don’t actually want to rename things that were named for slave owners. I want us to have to look at these names and recognize that they did.”
http://www.thewrap.com/condoleezza-rice-denounces-tearing-down-slave-owners-monuments-its-a-bad-thing/

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Post #: 195
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 2:47:36 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If we applied scripture, we would by acclamation take down the monuments, recognizing that they are "stumbling blocks" to a meaningful percentage of our population.

But that wouldn't be a solution. There will be no satisfying the grievance movement until everything is torn down and there is a new form of government rooted in something - mob rule, pure democracy, anarchy, libertarianism, or something. And eventually, like all forms of government (democracy, republic, socialist, communist, fascist), wealth and power will accrue to a small percentage smart enough, strong-willed enough, selfish enough, or lucky enough to thrive. And the process would be repeated.

America, warts and all, has the freedom of movement to go up or down, depending on hard work, smarts, athleticism, luck, good looks, whatever. We are not bound hard by chains in our social class. We have been a mobile nation...and that trend has increased over time, as minorities have become more and more part of the mainstream classes and wealth classes. We have lots of warts, but I prefer imperfect freedom to imperfect totalitarianism or imperfect mob rule.

We would do well to emulate Lincoln's "with malice towards none, with charity for all" sentiment. But that's not where we're heading.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 196
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 3:13:50 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		This is gonna get locked, folks. Move along.

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Post #: 197
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 3:21:40 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I, personally, think it's absolutely ridiculous to have statues of men that tried to destroy our nation, on "gov't" property.

I don't care if Robert E. Lee was for or against slavery, I don't care if he was a good man or a bad man by todays or 1860s standard of judgement. In my opinion, the man was a traitor, nothing more nothing less. As as a result, not one single gov't penny or parcel of gov't land should should have his (or any other Confederate leader) image, likeness, bust, statue etc. on it... unless it's in a museum or a history book.


This is the crux, that all the "Washington, Jefferson . . ." apologists miss. The Confederacy was a traitorous enterprise. It was never a nation (see USSC decision.) The officers of the CSA, especially Lee, were traitors by the plain wording of the US Constitution. Put the statues in museums, with plaques explaining they were traitors. Get them off public streets and out of public parks.


Yes, but the American Revolution was a traitorous enterprise.

Famous people get the monuments.

Almost every single individual that has ever had a monument erected to him or her
Is a Son of a Bitch in one area or another. It is almost an historical requirement because
Famous people are often complex like that.

The problem is where does it end? What is the next step? I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?

My ancestors fought for the south. In your book they were all traitors. When the war was over they returned to their homes and farms and had children. In your book they were they still traitors even after they took the oath of allegiance. I’m a direct descendent of those people. I have their DNA in my body and bloodstream.

You could say without reservation that I’m a living monument to those traitors and slave owners.

There are direct descendents of Jefferson and Lee living in our country.
There are black people living in America that have Thomas Jefferson’s DNA in them.

What are you going to do with us living monuments?

Maybe we will have to wear an armband. Instead of the Star of David maybe a small Confederate flag
On the armband to signify we have at least one drop of slave owner blood in our systems.



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Post #: 198
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 3:48:32 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

This is gonna get locked, folks. Move along.


Yes it will. It shouldn't but it will. And it's not Matrix's fault. They've been willing to bend over backwards in an attempt to be fair and open and kind and tolerant. But , in the long run , they are a commercial enterprise and controversy just doesn't pay the bills.

"It ought to be a law!". "We should do SOMETHING about that!". "Why hasn't anyone stopped that?". In my mind, these are the culprits to much of our societies failings.

Let me explain. We are a society of well meaning people. We try to cure every illness, right every wrong , solve every problem. And we are arrogant to think we can. We have full time state legislatures, full time politicians in every capacity no matter how small the community, we complain when congress takes a week off (when our ancestors were worries when they met too much) and a legal system to tries to right every imaginable wrong (and quite a few unimaginable ones too!).

We are busy bodies , micro managers and individuals with a God complex.

Why? Previous generations looked at "problems" and asked are they really problems? Should we interfere? Is it any of societies concerns or that of individuals? Should we just butt out? But today everyone needs to have a grievance , has to be a victim, or some how they feel incomplete. Disputes that in the past we worked out by two individuals behind a barn, now require a bloated judicial system. Why? And how did we get to everyone has a immediate need to be addressed , but people who have a different view to ours cannot have their say , in the name of "Social justice?". Isn't ANY justice by our vary system "Social?" In every legal jurisdiction does not a criminal trial issue a case of "the people against ...."? Or the state of , or the US Government (you know , of "We the people" fame) against...."?




Maybe THAT's the main song of the recent Disney musical Frozen resonated so strongly with people. "Let it go" is good advice. Don't have an opinion on everything , especially things that don't concern you. And of course that old bit of advice on government (often attributed to Jefferson , but could be anybody) "the government that governs least, governs best". My personal favorite adage is "just because you CAN do something , doesn't mean you should". Or maybe all these government incursions into life is just the political equivalent of "hold my beer".

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Post #: 199
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 4:02:50 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I, personally, think it's absolutely ridiculous to have statues of men that tried to destroy our nation, on "gov't" property.

I don't care if Robert E. Lee was for or against slavery, I don't care if he was a good man or a bad man by todays or 1860s standard of judgement. In my opinion, the man was a traitor, nothing more nothing less. As as a result, not one single gov't penny or parcel of gov't land should should have his (or any other Confederate leader) image, likeness, bust, statue etc. on it... unless it's in a museum or a history book.


This is the crux, that all the "Washington, Jefferson . . ." apologists miss. The Confederacy was a traitorous enterprise. It was never a nation (see USSC decision.) The officers of the CSA, especially Lee, were traitors by the plain wording of the US Constitution. Put the statues in museums, with plaques explaining they were traitors. Get them off public streets and out of public parks.


Yes, but the American Revolution was a traitorous enterprise.

warspite1

Well said. I can't believe how many "tear down the monuments apologists" simply miss this fundamental point. Depending on whose 'side' you sit, someone is going to be a bad guy to someone. So for example, depending on whose side you sit, one of Charles I or Oliver Cromwell was a traitor. The 1640's were a massively important time in British history. There are monuments, there are memorials to both. That time needs to be remembered. So does the US Civil War.

Condoleezza Rice - you put it perfectly.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/24/2017 4:22:54 PM >

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Post #: 200
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 4:03:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		If the thread spins out of control (it probably will, as entropy is the normal order of things), the thread will be locked.

But I sure am getting a lot out of it. When I read the thoughts of people who I respect but who disagree with me on a point it prompts me to sit down, examine my beliefs, and make a good faith effort to assure that what I believe is based on logic and good reasoning and deferring when possible to the viewpoints of others.

This forum has been the best I've ever known. There are a remarkable number of people here whose opinions I respect immensely. And to get input from people far, far away (Minnesota, Germany, Scotland, Singapore, Korea, et al) is most helpful and interesting. Living here in my rural southern community in which I have no television or smart phone means that you guys (and gal) are pretty significant threads in the "fabric of my community."

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Post #: 201
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 4:18:04 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

entropy is the normal order of things


Dan,

Quite off topic this observation, but in spite of your prodigious work with words that turn of phrase likely towers over anything you published! Greyjoy eat your heart out!

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Post #: 202
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 4:36:43 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I, personally, think it's absolutely ridiculous to have statues of men that tried to destroy our nation, on "gov't" property.

I don't care if Robert E. Lee was for or against slavery, I don't care if he was a good man or a bad man by todays or 1860s standard of judgement. In my opinion, the man was a traitor, nothing more nothing less. As as a result, not one single gov't penny or parcel of gov't land should should have his (or any other Confederate leader) image, likeness, bust, statue etc. on it... unless it's in a museum or a history book.


This is the crux, that all the "Washington, Jefferson . . ." apologists miss. The Confederacy was a traitorous enterprise. It was never a nation (see USSC decision.) The officers of the CSA, especially Lee, were traitors by the plain wording of the US Constitution. Put the statues in museums, with plaques explaining they were traitors. Get them off public streets and out of public parks.


Yes, but the American Revolution was a traitorous enterprise.

warspite1

Well said. I can't believe how many "tear down the monuments apologists" simply miss this fundamental point. Depending on whose 'side' you sit, someone is going to be a bad guy to someone. So for example, depending on whose side you sit, one of Charles I or Oliver Cromwell was a traitor. The 1640's were a massively important time in British history. There are monuments, there are memorials to both. That time needs to be remembered. So does the US Civil War.

Condoleezza Rice - you put it perfectly.

warspite1

One other pertinent point on the US Civil War. This was a war fought between unequal sides its true, but the southern states were still a sizeable group in numbers of states and population within. Had they, their populace and their leaders been shunned, vilified and hounded after the war with no memorials or statues to their fallen, their leaders, allowed, how would that make them feel? Part of a Union? Instead the Union stayed together, the US grew strong united and those descendants of the southern states can remain proud of their country (USA) but also their south, their state or whatever, while remaining within the Union. That was - whether wholly by design or by luck - the sensible way to deal with the defeated. Had they tried the age old way perhaps resentment and anger (and fear) would have simply festered and the USA would be very different to the one we know today.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/24/2017 5:37:48 PM >

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Post #: 203
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 4:38:04 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?


What about you? You didn't fight against the nation 150 years ago, so nothing. I don't blame kids for the choices their parents, or ancestors, made.

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Post #: 204
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 4:41:17 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?


What about you? You didn't fight against the nation 150 years ago, so nothing. I don't blame kids for the choices their parents, or ancestors, made.
warspite1

Yes but in fairness your opinion doesn't count - you wanted 50 Shades of Grey to be made. Don't think we don't remember....






_____________________________

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Post #: 205
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 5:08:01 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?


What about you? You didn't fight against the nation 150 years ago, so nothing. I don't blame kids for the choices their parents, or ancestors, made.
warspite1

Yes but in fairness your opinion doesn't count - you wanted 50 Shades of Grey to be made. Don't think we don't remember....









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Post #: 206
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 5:18:55 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?


What about you? You didn't fight against the nation 150 years ago, so nothing. I don't blame kids for the choices their parents, or ancestors, made.
warspite1

Yes but in fairness your opinion doesn't count - you wanted 50 Shades of Grey to be made. Don't think we don't remember....






Of course he wanted that film to be made because he knew it would include what counts. The only thing really important.

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Post #: 207
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 5:39:57 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?


What about you? You didn't fight against the nation 150 years ago, so nothing. I don't blame kids for the choices their parents, or ancestors, made.
warspite1

Yes but in fairness your opinion doesn't count - you wanted 50 Shades of Grey to be made. Don't think we don't remember....






Of course he wanted that film to be made because he knew it would include what counts. The only thing really important.
warspite1

You mean a decent theme tune?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtDXIazrMo




_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 208
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 5:42:30 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit
I’m a southerner and I don’t have a dog in this fight. I don’t care if the monuments stay or go but what about me?


What about you? You didn't fight against the nation 150 years ago, so nothing. I don't blame kids for the choices their parents, or ancestors, made.
warspite1

Yes but in fairness your opinion doesn't count - you wanted 50 Shades of Grey to be made. Don't think we don't remember....








warspite1

I thought it was a Civil War movie - 50 States of Grey - supposing the south had won..... My eyesight is not what it was...


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 8/24/2017 5:44:02 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 209
RE: Revisionist History-OT - 8/24/2017 5:54:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

For the sake of forum peace just drop this topic. Nothing good will come out of it.


I agree this is a fraught topic, made more so by recent events. But I could not remain silent in the face of so many outrageous posts.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 210
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