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RE: Game over? - 9/20/2015 9:41:45 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: beekeeper

and game balance, why you speaking about?

I have no problem with game balance and didn't focuse on it, i't's my first 1942 campaign as soviet. I'm Learning.

quote:


1st poket, 1 lvl fort + 1 inf div and 3 PZ copr go clear field

Wrong, see below afer your moves



quote:


2nd poket, 1 lvl fort on 2nd line( 1st line destroy germ inf)+ 2 gv div and PZ army go clear field

wrong, see picture at the end of my turn before your attack west of Voronezh



quote:


3 poket, 1 lvl fort + 2 inf div and PZ army go clear

Partially true, I was surprised with this attack but it wasn't that easy, you had at least a double line of defence with reserve activation

quote:


ok and last oka, 1 tank brigade def coast

True but finding this spot in swamp without any recon... and after losing 60 units, I tried to reinforce clear hexes which I thought would be the logical target for Pzd.

quote:


this not balance version, not german skill, it error installation sov div

I hope you will find a better opponent next time... I will not be yours, I'm a fair opponent and have no problem with losing a game but your comments are very abrupt.

quote:


ps why you not build gv corps? 2 gv div+ 1 brigade it best sov unit summer 42

You can only build rifle corps in june and they are dead ducks on clear ground (too slow)

(in reply to beekeeper)
Post #: 121
RE: Game over? - 9/20/2015 11:39:29 AM   
beekeeper

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 2/27/2012
Status: offline

1 DIV in fort 1st lvl - another attack will be after



you place in fort HQ army, your 3 div cant retrite in fort
if my 2nd attack will be held - i cant greate poket

>Partially true, I was surprised with this attack but it wasn't that easy, you had at least a double line of defence with reserve activation

i desroy line only inf not use noone PZ, it was rly easy
http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/16919689

>I hope you will find a better opponent next time... I will not be yours, I'm a fair opponent and have no problem with losing a game but your comments are very abrupt.

you nice opponent, i just think that now the balance is very good and offended when making judgments about it basing on the opinion of 3 small errors

ps i hope you will take Berlin in this game




< Message edited by beekeeper -- 9/20/2015 1:20:06 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 122
Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 6:04:32 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 57, 16th july 1942

Looking forward...

The battle for Moscow has begun



Some held results



In the South it's over



And the losses


(in reply to beekeeper)
Post #: 123
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 7:07:11 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		With the terrain around Moscow and the amount of forces you have, you should be able to stop him there.

The South is pretty much a lost cause in every game its just a matter of trying not to sacrifice to many troops to German encirclements while buying time/trying not to lose to many cities to fast.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 124
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 8:54:44 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

With the terrain around Moscow and the amount of forces you have, you should be able to stop him there.

We are 5 turns ahead of the AAR and I'm impressed with the ability of the german to move strong russian stacks in woods...

WITE is a snowball game... loosing 90 units with 3 encirclements means zero chance for me to get a draw.

My bet is the game will end in september 1942 with the fall of Moscow. He has already 235 VP

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 125
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 9:10:57 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		The good thing is that you are doing a lot of experience, in the hard way but still...

_____________________________

WitP-AE - WitE - CWII - BASPM - BaB


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 126
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 9:15:54 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		IDK as long as you dont lose anymore big encirclement's you might be alright lol...I prolly lost about 90+ units over the summer to when you total them all up.

He really should have just kept trying to encircle and destroy the Soviet Army south of the OKA and push you to the map edge, as he will take alot of losses and may not even take Moscow pushing into that terrain...


(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 127
The South - 9/21/2015 9:23:38 PM   
BrianG

 

Posts: 4653
Joined: 3/6/2012
Status: offline 		Fight back especially down south. And hold those ports at all cost.

You must attack that Hungarian tank division!

He is now vulnerable.

Get some tank corps down there asap.

Let him slug his way to Moscow.



< Message edited by BrianG -- 9/21/2015 10:27:23 PM >

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 128
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 9:37:07 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

The good thing is that you are doing a lot of experience, in the hard way but still...

True!

Beekeeper is a good attacker. he perfectly knows how to concentrate his units and use his Pzd/Mot.

He optimzes the mobility of german army

PS: I like the pictures illustrating wargaming. My wife doesn't understand how it is possible to spend so much time playing what she calls "little war".

My daughters ask me sometimes how is my american/canadian/russian/german/slovak or french opponent

(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 129
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/21/2015 9:38:20 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

IDK as long as you dont lose anymore big encirclement's you might be alright lol...I prolly lost about 90+ units over the summer to when you total them all up.

He really should have just kept trying to encircle and destroy the Soviet Army south of the OKA and push you to the map edge, as he will take alot of losses and may not even take Moscow pushing into that terrain...



I didn"t fight South of the Oka..

And I lost 90 units early july, not end september...

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 130
RE: The South - 9/21/2015 9:48:14 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

Fight back especially down south. And hold those ports at all cost.

You must attack that Hungarian tank division!

He is now vulnerable.

Get some tank corps down there asap.

Let him slug his way to Moscow.




Not that easy, the picture is after my moves and he has at least a Pzk with 2 Pzd 2 Mot in the area.

I don't think he will go for the South, he only needs 25 VP ( Moscow + Ryazan + Stalingrad)

I have no AP to build Tank Corps, all are required to build rifle corps South of Moscow

(in reply to BrianG)
Post #: 131
RE: The South - 9/21/2015 10:16:32 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		The Twitch link is a nice idea. I haven't seen a player show their turn like this before.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 132
RE: The South - 9/22/2015 11:13:35 AM   
beekeeper

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 2/27/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

The Twitch link is a nice idea. I haven't seen a player show their turn like this before.


im streaming if play home =)

1st turn this game http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/8603255
2nd http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/8616082
3th http://www.twitch.tv/tehb12/v/8726274

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 133
RE: The South - 9/22/2015 11:48:12 AM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		Its neat but some long turns to watch through, and I know I've had some turns take more than even 2 hours....especially when doing lots of AP use and re-organization/looking over commanders report to find specific units an such.

From my first pvp vs Petlon Ive already decided some things I will change for next time I play Soviets. Did a quick count of reinforcing Soviet Cav divisions, its somewhere around 50 divisions so if you dont lose any of your cavalry to encirclements that you get from reinforcements even without building more cav you can easily make 15+ Cav Corps by the winter of 1941. An thats writing off the 6 divisions the Soviets start the game with as you will lose most/all of them probably in first turn encirclements.

Also means that once cavalry go to 10 AP each should be easier to make 20-25 CAV corps I project the soviets need in total for a solid 1942 counterattack force.

The one big difference I would do in my next game is cav corps will be 2 sapper and 1 tank battalion....should help alleviate the T60/T70 shortage Im seeing in 1942 due to massive losses especially once you start using tank corps. As my first game did 2x tank battalions 1x sapper. You get about the same CV but burn all those tanks throughout 1942....sappers might be easier to keep up to strength in the long run.

(in reply to beekeeper)
Post #: 134
Battle for Moscow - 9/22/2015 6:53:56 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 58, 23th July 1942

I pay for the loss of units earlier. I'm unable to both defend efficiently the bridgehead and the whole Oka bank.

Another bridgehead is created.

Some pressure around Vyazma. I begin to know Beekeeper's gameplay. Pzd/Mot will appear soon in this area. But I have no choice, 43th Army is tranferred South of Moscow



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 9/22/2015 7:55:15 PM >

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 135
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/22/2015 9:32:54 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blind Sniper

The good thing is that you are doing a lot of experience, in the hard way but still...

True!

Beekeeper is a good attacker. he perfectly knows how to concentrate his units and use his Pzd/Mot.

He optimzes the mobility of german army

PS: I like the pictures illustrating wargaming. My wife doesn't understand how it is possible to spend so much time playing what she calls "little war".

My daughters ask me sometimes how is my american/canadian/russian/german/slovak or french opponent



Ah ah I know it, every so often my son wants to speak with the guy I'm playing on Skype (he is 4 years old).
Time and money for what? Pushing counters (real or digital)...

_____________________________

WitP-AE - WitE - CWII - BASPM - BaB


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 136
Battle for Moscow - 9/23/2015 7:26:21 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 59, 30th july 1942

Beekeeper hammers my defence South of Moscow. Another strong move arrives from the west (picture before my moves)



I'm able to do some successfull counterattacks. Note the difference between the number of men involved and the final odd. 29th mot is attacked 3 times (2retreat, 1 rout)

See also the inefficiency of soviet air units



In the South, 3 pzd 2 mot...



(in reply to Blind Sniper)
Post #: 137
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/23/2015 9:18:38 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		inefficiency of Soviet Air units?

You had alot of air committed and they flew into a decent amount of German fighters each battle....its still summer 1942 German fighters will still win most air engagements unless you outnumber them by droves. However he doesnt have enough fighters to cover everything is the key.

Also make sure to ground strike the German units you intend to attack as the first thing you do with your air units in a turn. Adds alot of disruption if you get 2-3 good sized air raids on enemy ground units before your actual assaults and then hopefully you roll well and your forces commit even more air units to the actual attack.

Im happy when I see 200+ total Soviet planes committed to an attack/defense, air to air losses dont matter for the soviets its all about those planes going in and doing something disruption is key to winning battles most of the time and air attacks cause a fair amount usually.

< Message edited by chaos45 -- 9/23/2015 10:21:07 PM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 138
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/23/2015 9:55:10 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

inefficiency of Soviet Air units?

I was refering to the loss ratio 6/1.

The massive commitment of soviet air units is surely due to the range between the fights and the airbases (roughly 3 to 5 hexes)

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 139
RE: Battle for Moscow - 9/23/2015 10:53:58 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		honestly you did pretty good your fighters protected the bombers well. Against that many German fighters I have seen much higher bomber losses lol. Seen raids against German airfields cost me 100 aircraft a pop lol.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 140
The agony - 9/24/2015 9:08:52 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 60, 6th august 1942

South of Moscow, I'm not able to stop german advance, even my strongest stacks can be routed.

Some successfull counterattacks... but I still miss 50 units which would have prevented Beekeeper from being able to attack Moscow at full strength



In the South some minor fights but I pay for being too optimistic. I will loose 1 cav corps



A view of the losses and the OOB




(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 141
All in - 9/24/2015 9:21:44 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 61, 13th august 1942

Situation is critical South of Moscow, Beekeeper is able to move 3 consecutive hexes strongly held to create a breakthrough which proved to be unbreakable. I gather my best units and commander in a desperate last attempt.



Heavy fights...



This time it's all in! But the attack isn't coordinated and too late. I'm not proud...



A tank corps manages to mop up german airbases





(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 142
Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:27:41 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 62, 20th august 1942

No comment. I give the choice to Beekeeper continuing in order for him to achieve the 260VP or surrender. I accepted my unconditional surrender... Congratulations to him for this victory.


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 143
What's up? - 9/24/2015 9:38:48 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Some thoughts about this game.

1) Beekeeper is a far better player than me. He deserves his victory.

2) My 1941's campaign was quite good but my inexperience in 1942 as soviet proved to be decisive

3) Random weather is a good option even if it's a bonus for the german player in 1942.

3) I made several significant mistakes en 1942
- the russian must give up in South beginning at the last turn of february
- ground South of Tula is worthless
- I wasn't able to concentrate my counterattack units at the right place
- keep your front line away from german infs in the south

4) AP is key!

5) Build recon units and use it!

6) 200 HI and 300 arm is ok

It was a nice game played at a high rate. Thanks to Beekeeper.




(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 144
RE: Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:42:38 PM   
schascha


Posts: 295
Joined: 1/3/2012
Status: offline 		thx stef for this AAR.

The year 42 is too difficult for the russian with this patch.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 145
RE: Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:43:35 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
Joined: 5/13/2011
Status: offline 		Hate to say it, but plain bad decision making at the end. You should have pulled everyone out of the Kaluga area on turn 59. When the game is on the line, defending Kaluga or the river line nearby is not a priority.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 146
RE: Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:47:28 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

thx stef for this AAR.

The year 42 is too difficult for the russian with this patch.

1942 is difficult, and above all with random weather, but if I had given ground ealier in the South, the game would have been different

(in reply to schascha)
Post #: 147
RE: Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:49:40 PM   
beekeeper

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 2/27/2012
Status: offline 		Thx for game and aar =)


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 148
RE: Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:50:56 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		thanks for the AAR, it is interesting to see, not least you clearly did well in 1941. But yes, you simply can't expect to carry forward any benefits from 1941 into 1942 under 1.08.03/4.

but you've made my basic mistake, you simply can't fight the Germans in front of the Don for 1942.

_____________________________


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 149
RE: Surrender.... - 9/24/2015 9:51:21 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Hate to say it, but plain bad decision making at the end. You should have pulled everyone out of the Kaluga area on turn 59. When the game is on the line, defending Kaluga or the river line nearby is not a priority.

Always the same dilemna...

The 11-13 rifle corps stack (2 rifle corps) hadn't enough MP to escape. I prefered rout the mot...

and I couldn't afford giving too much hexes too fast, I had at least 12 turns to hold before mud....

(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 150
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