Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

On the other hand, when the Japanese capture a base they get a hearty "BANZAI". When the allies capture something they only get a lame "hip hip hooray" like they just got served tepid lima beans. The Japanese get Tokyo Rose the allies get nothing. The only possible implication is that there is that the developers each have a secret Hirohito shrine hidden in their respective basements.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Well Alfred,

The fact is, Japanese airframes as the George and the frank where good airframes, and Japan had not enough experienced pilots to fly them.
It is a historical fact.

And since when do I need to fly combat missions to state that catching air combat in an algorithm is not going to be a 100% accurate thing.
Perhaps the pilot ate a bad burrito and felt sick , and lost the air combat due to the cook !.

As I stated the game did well, I am not kicking the algorithm of the game how air combat is calculated, I just state if favors the allied cause later on in the war.

Furthermore, if you hand over the source codes of the game, I be happy to show the models and the bias towards the allied cause.
You state that I tell lies, hence prove I lie, and show the code. if not then I can state my opinion of the matter as I chose fit.

The frank was regarded after the war as a better plane then many allied airframes, perhaps even the Mustang and the corsair.

It seems your purpose in life is to ramble against anything that is written on this forum, with the sole purpose of being more grumpy then the day before.

to state I am a bad player is also hilarious, I take you on any time, but then you seem to be to busy every time I offer it.
big mouth, big words, but when push comes to shove, no courage to play.

The list of battles in WW2 you present means nothing in the game mechanics, that I speak of.
simple example, war isn't played out in phases, and ships get interdicted any hour of day in real time, not in a particular phase of day when all airmen run to their planes because it is the time to do so in the game.
and we play in the aftermath of the war, knowing the results, and key events.
We can now IF IF away until we drop.

For the fact that I do not play allied anymore, because I find it to easy, is not yours to judge.
And I served 4 years in the air force, but I do not see why my flying qualifications in a modern jet should reflect the experience of flying in a zero.
But then Alfred, perhaps you have flown planes in 1941? as you find yourself a expert on all matters, including code you did not write but defend to the teeth, or are you the lead programmer of the game as well?.


One small historical fact, the romans knew that, the Greeks knew that, history is always, always rewritten by the victors, without exception.

For the rest of your rambling, you really should visit a professional.


PM me if you up to a game challenge and I will show you how the mechanics favor the allied cause.

As regarding to my intellect, Alfred, bold statement from such a troubled mind.
Come play.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

True Lokasenna, it will never be like it was, and that is OK, it is a GAME!.
I just stated the engine under the hood imho favors the allied cause later in 1943.
Air combat could be more towards pilot experience and less to speed.
I never stated the other factors are not present, I just stated I rather see it more balanced towards the pilot experience rather than speed.
I also stated the game engine did a good job of simulating air combat, as it is very difficult to get that right in an algorithm.

if people don't agree, then do not agree, it is a free world, no need for getting al personal and insulting, over an opinion.
As for the AI, I am sorry, it doesn't give me a proper challenge, it is my experience, so again, if people do not agree, LET IT GO!. the world is full of more important things than a GAME!
Alfred reacted like I was beating up his wife

You wonder why people/ Alfred get upset over criticism of a game engine, other then not being able to see into perspective.

He acts like he is the lead programmer, the top fighter ace from 1941, The admiral and top general of WW2 and beyond!. the very pinnacle of intellect, and the standard that defines humanity.
While reality is most probably quite different. ( I personally picture him with an old sweater stating founding member of the grumpy club )

But I am sure he will wake up, read this and start rambling again, just after he took his morning pills. (if I am lucky, otherwise he will ramble without the medication)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall
I did not go into a discussion, i stated my opinion [...]

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My problem is that alfred steps way across the boundary of advice or disagreement, and steps into insulting people [...]

quote:


I wear gloves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Well we can settle the air combat thing very quickly
If the combat calculations model can be revealed, we can discuss it in detail and with open visor based on actual factual algoryrhms that are used in the game.
Of course we need to consider all the side values the calculation takes into affect as well.
So i will be happy to state my ignorance and wrong saying after we have the model on the table and discussed it in depth.

Perhaps a dev can help us out here by giving is the model only, no need for the code, just the model.
That would be a great thing, and a great learning experience

So is this possible? 🙈

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Pissing in the wind can be usefull if your pants are on fire 🚒
But point taken, i understand nobody has the code on the forum.

I will try to contact the elf ( this could be a line in lord of the rings)

Im, off . Have to catch an Elf.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Yup, somebody would creat a mod with Japanese P-47s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

He could easily test his hypothesis by simply changing the nationality of the airframes in the scenario editor. Make the P-47 models Japanese, make the A6M models USN, etc.

I think the rest of us know what would happen then.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Well we can settle the air combat thing very quickly
If the combat calculations model can be revealed, we can discuss it in detail and with open visor based on actual factual algoryrhms that are used in the game.
Of course we need to consider all the side values the calculation takes into affect as well.
So i will be happy to state my ignorance and wrong saying after we have the model on the table and discussed it in depth.

Perhaps a dev can help us out here by giving is the model only, no need for the code, just the model.
That would be a great thing, and a great learning experience

So is this possible? 🙈

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
You're asking in the wrong place. No one on the forum owns the game code. You need to contact the developers or possibly Matrix Games.

You also could benefit from supplying any evidence to support your claims. Combat reports, tests, whatever. most players here do the work themselves rather than asking for the code, or the air model. One of the developers of the air model has appeared in this thread, The Elf. So give him a PM if you're serious and want to discover more through some tests or something. He might point you in the right direction at least.

One suggestion I could give you would be to try tests in 42 and another set in 45 of a grand campaign with the same airframes, same settings and conditions, same pilot skills, same situation in game and the same group leaders. That might show you whether your conjecture actually has some merit. Without evidence you're just pissing in the wind ...

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

In real life the IJN failed to sink a single US CV after 1942. However you can read multiple AARs as well as games I have been involved in myself where the Jap player has sunk dozens of CVs after 1943 when this mythical Allied air advantage kicks in.

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall

Well we can settle the air combat thing very quickly
If the combat calculations model can be revealed, we can discuss it in detail and with open visor based on actual factual algoryrhms that are used in the game.
Of course we need to consider all the side values the calculation takes into affect as well.
So i will be happy to state my ignorance and wrong saying after we have the model on the table and discussed it in depth.

Perhaps a dev can help us out here by giving is the model only, no need for the code, just the model.
That would be a great thing, and a great learning experience

So is this possible? 🙈

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
You're asking in the wrong place. No one on the forum owns the game code. You need to contact the developers or possibly Matrix Games.

You also could benefit from supplying any evidence to support your claims. Combat reports, tests, whatever. most players here do the work themselves rather than asking for the code, or the air model. One of the developers of the air model has appeared in this thread, The Elf. So give him a PM if you're serious and want to discover more through some tests or something. He might point you in the right direction at least.

One suggestion I could give you would be to try tests in 42 and another set in 45 of a grand campaign with the same airframes, same settings and conditions, same pilot skills, same situation in game and the same group leaders. That might show you whether your conjecture actually has some merit. Without evidence you're just pissing in the wind ...

The Elf established the original air combat algorithms, but he doesn't have the code. Michael worked closely with him back in the day, so the current code is probably pretty close to his ideas. I recall one of the problems with all the combat algorithms was the game was too abstract to include all the variables for a great simulation. Air combat simulators can be much more accurate because they include many, many more performance details than AE can. We were limited by computer memory, any data on aircraft has to be stored for every plane in the database, same things for land combat and ship combat. Say it requires another 10000 bytes per aircraft to make a really good combat sim. Not much for a modern computer, but multiply that by all the aircraft slots and you are taking up a pretty good sized chunk of memory. When that data is included, then someone has to go through the effort to characterize every single aircraft, which is a lot of work.

Now do the same for every LCU and every ship class. Not only are you eating up a lot of RAM many users don't have and possibly hitting the memory limits for 32 bit Windows, somebody has to dig up and enter in all that data.

The algorithm we have is imperfect, but it's better than the original WitP which is what we were aiming for.

Bill

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
Bill, if I may add: and it is certainly not programmed to be biased toward either side.

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer