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[ANSWERED - WAITING FOR ADV STRIKE PLANNER] - airborne assault still not working properly

 
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[ANSWERED - WAITING FOR ADV STRIKE PLANNER] - airborne ... - 3/15/2016 8:32:54 PM   
mx1

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/16/2014
Status: offline 		Tested with B802 (1.11 RC 1). This is a repost of the issue from the old thread - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3992700&mpage=1&key=? as I think it was missed among other posts.

I am trying to design airborne assault mission using helos - mission profile would be:
- take off from airfield
- fast and low movement to landing zone
- slow and low hover in landing zone
The return would be achieved by reassigning helos to different mission or issuing RTB (thanks for this feature BTW).

I've tried:
1. Setup support mission with custom profile (alt and speed override).
2. Setup patrol mission with custom profile.

My observations
A. The altitude override works properly only over sea - when helo is over land then minimum altitude changes to 500 ft AGL (Above the Ground Level - I guess). So no way to fly at for example 150 ft. I can't change altitude even if unit is not assigned to mission. Minimum flight/hover level seems to be 500 ft over land. I do understand that in order to follow terrain unit needs to be equipped with appropiate devices (TFR) but why the minimum altitude above sea is 150ft and above flat ground 500 ft? It doesn't make much sense.

B. When custom profile is assigned to support mission i.e. I set up transit and station speed, the station speed is turned on automatically around 10 miles before target reference point (LZ). So 10 miles before landing zone helo slows down from for example 130 kts to 55 kts. So really fast approach to LZ is not possible. I can set up high speed for station to avoid slow down but this would be unrealistic as the station speed should really be 0 or at least 'creep'.
C. Patrol mission can be used instead of support but still transit/station speed change occurs (at around 5 miles before 1st RP).

Conclusion
I still think that additional mission type should be added for airborne assault with the ability to use low altitude at station and no slow down before destination RP. Alternatively support mission should have switch that will override the 10 miles before target slow down.
Regarding the minimum altitude - I still think this is bug - helicopters quite often fly below this level in real life, and you don't need special equipment to hover helo at 20 ft above the ground so the 'station terrain following' should not require special equipment if the station speed is 'creep/loiter'.


Example scenario attached.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by emsoy -- 3/15/2016 9:26:59 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: [802] - airborne assault still not working properly - 3/15/2016 8:57:18 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for your feedback MX1, some comments below:

quote:

ORIGINAL: mx1

Tested with B802 (1.11 RC 1). This is a repost of the issue from the old thread - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3992700&mpage=1&key=? as I think it was missed among other posts.

I am trying to design airborne assault mission using helos - mission profile would be:
- take off from airfield
- fast and low movement to landing zone
- slow and low hover in landing zone
The return would be achieved by reassigning helos to different mission or issuing RTB (thanks for this feature BTW).

I've tried:
1. Setup support mission with custom profile (alt and speed override).
2. Setup patrol mission with custom profile.

My observations
A. The altitude override works properly only over sea - when helo is over land then minimum altitude changes to 500 ft AGL (Above the Ground Level - I guess). So no way to fly at for example 150 ft. I can't change altitude even if unit is not assigned to mission. Minimum flight/hover level seems to be 500 ft over land. I do understand that in order to follow terrain unit needs to be equipped with appropiate devices (TFR) but why the minimum altitude above sea is 150ft and above flat ground 500 ft? It doesn't make much sense.


You're operating the helo at night, right? Minimum altitude depends on pilot skills, weather, and time-of-day

quote:


B. When custom profile is assigned to support mission i.e. I set up transit and station speed, the station speed is turned on automatically around 10 miles before target reference point (LZ). So 10 miles before landing zone helo slows down from for example 130 kts to 55 kts. So really fast approach to LZ is not possible. I can set up high speed for station to avoid slow down but this would be unrealistic as the station speed should really be 0 or at least 'creep'.


Yeah v1.11 use buffered zones which allows you to even use one-RefPoint patrol areas. Using support missions to simulate helo drops is kinda not what they were intended for. Need to use manually plotted courses or wait for strike planner I'm afraid... sorry

quote:


C. Patrol mission can be used instead of support but still transit/station speed change occurs (at around 5 miles before 1st RP).


Again, buffered zones

quote:


Conclusion
I still think that additional mission type should be added for airborne assault with the ability to use low altitude at station and no slow down before destination RP. Alternatively support mission should have switch that will override the 10 miles before target slow down.
Regarding the minimum altitude - I still think this is bug - helicopters quite often fly below this level in real life, and you don't need special equipment to hover helo at 20 ft above the ground so the 'station terrain following' should not require special equipment if the station speed is 'creep/loiter'.

Example scenario attached.


Thanks

Massive improvements are planned, we just need to put things in the right order and implement stuff from the bottom up. Which is what we're currently doing. Version 1.11 fixed quite a few issues and we'll continue working in v1.12. Until all models are fully operational I guess we'll just have to accept a few abstractions here-and-there.

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to mx1)
Post #: 2
RE: [802] - airborne assault still not working properly - 3/15/2016 9:20:22 PM   
mx1

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/16/2014
Status: offline 		Thanks for the explanation. Will wait for 1.12 for further improvements. You are great team anyway.


(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 3
RE: [802] - airborne assault still not working properly - 3/15/2016 10:29:23 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline 		No offense but, stop waiting for "the next version". Make great stuff with what you have right now. Others do.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 3/15/2016 10:37:43 PM >

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(in reply to mx1)
Post #: 4
RE: [802] - airborne assault still not working properly - 3/15/2016 10:32:52 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
No offense but, stop waiting for "the next version". Make great stuff with what you have right now. Others do.


Yeah that's a much better approach

Command 1.11 is pretty good.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 3/15/2016 10:38:06 PM >

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 5
RE: [802] - airborne assault still not working properly - 3/16/2016 1:56:14 AM   
cns180784

 

Posts: 447
Joined: 7/31/2015
Status: offline 		Will the advanced strike planner come in v1.12? i wont be disappointed if it wont be, just curious. I know it must be complicated to implement properly, and can see how the improvements to 1.11 builds up to the advanced strike planner. Great work!

< Message edited by cns180784 -- 3/16/2016 1:58:01 AM >

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 6
RE: [802] - airborne assault still not working properly - 3/16/2016 6:24:10 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		No it won't, need to do more groundwork. The plan is to add day/night and weather limitations to the existing mission planner, but I make absolutely no promises as it may turn out more complex than expected and take considerably longer time to implement.

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 7
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