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RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/1/2016 8:18:13 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Lodz falls!




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RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/1/2016 8:27:11 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Germany rebases Ju52 to western front.

Italy rebases fighter from Sicily to northern Italy.

von Bock reorganizes Stuka and artillery.

Back to Allies.

Here is Europe after N/D 1939 Axis impulse 1.




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RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/1/2016 9:17:14 PM   
rkr1958


Posts: 23483
Joined: 5/21/2009
Status: offline 		I don't think I've ever seen France fall in 1939. Even if the axis go all out from the get-go, how frequent does that happen?

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Ronnie

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RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/1/2016 11:31:15 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		I have not seen it either (not that it is saying a I lot that I have not seen it, but..).

My guess is it doesn't happen very often at all. There are a lot of things that have to go right for it to happen. The Axis need both good weather and long turns. Bad weather here will likely put a stop to France falling this turn, but you never know. Either way, it would appear that France is not long for the war.

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Post #: 634
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 1:08:00 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline 		This seldom happens. Fall Gelb is all about 1) taking advantage of any possibilities concerning weather, turn ends, and any possible early Allied mistakes. 2) making sure France falls before the end of Summer '40...preferably by M/J'40 and preferably without using any O-chits (or at most 1 O-chit).

You have to be willing to let Poland exist a bit longer...not a big deal so long as you get the Polish resources.

The biggest downside is USSR possibly breaking the Pact in 1940, but so long as Germany is careful to not let that happen you should be ok.

The best plan is a plan that gives you the most options. The earlier France falls, the more options Germany has.


< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 5/2/2016 1:25:39 AM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Klydon)
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RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:34:37 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

I don't think I've ever seen France fall in 1939. Even if the axis go all out from the get-go, how frequent does that happen?
warspite1

When you think about what needs to happen, I think its clear that it will be very seldom. e.g:

1. The Axis need to have the balls to chose a France first strategy in the first place
2. The weather needs to stay fine (or at least fine enough) at the right time (nothing more frustrating than being hit by great weather after all your units are face down - except perhaps not even getting the chance to attack because of Snow, Blizzard and/or a lack of impulses).
3. Of course the way the mechanics work, the weather staying fine will increase the chances of increasing turn length - although there is always the possibility of low dice ending the turn sooner than expected regardless
4. The dice need to be just kind enough in the right places - that can mean a number of things of course in many areas - both Axis and Allied.
5. Mistakes (both Axis and Allied in the heat of battle). Of course this can be a contentious point i.e. what is a mistake? Thankfully most people that contribute to this forum realise that life is full of greys and rarely blacks and white. The set-up in Belgium has been mentioned as a "mistake" but those that like to spout this, don't then say for example that the French did the right thing and played the % in Alsace or the Chinese the same against Mao. Here of course had the Allies done the "riskier thing" and gone for Assault the result would have been better for both, but by playing the %, and going for Blitz (to try and preserve the French unit and Mao on map) the outcome was actually worse for them. Mistake or sensible choice in the circumstances?

One thing that is clear is that this strategy is really tempting if playing with oil. The French have only one oil to spend in Nov/Dec. By forcing the French to use their HQ and air force - by threatening early - and supporting this with an Italian declaration of war - so forcing the French into using their fleet, the French simply cannot afford to reorganise the TRS - which leaves key units such as the Senegal militia in Africa.

There are still plenty of downsides to this strategy - even with oil - to ensure this is not a "no-brainer" by any means - but playing with oil definitely makes it even more worthy of consideration. But I mentioned balls above, and this applies not just because of the weather, the combat dice rolls and the turn length going against the Axis, but also - and most importantly - the US Entry hits that an early attack (especially with advancement against Chinese cities also) can bring.

But back to this game, the Axis have been bold, made some good moves at times and ridden their luck at other times. You cannot win WIF without good fortune, but you can get good fortune and fail to take advantage. The Axis are where they are at the moment because they have made a good job of what they have handed to them - good and bad .

But its early days and the Allies aren't quitting just yet

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/2/2016 11:58:02 AM >

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Post #: 636
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 11:58:58 AM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
Joined: 9/7/2011
From: Finland
Status: offline 		At some point of this game I was thinking not to do Fall Gelb again because Germany was not doing well.

I had my weak moment..

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 5/2/2016 12:00:44 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 637
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 12:03:51 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

At some point of this game I was thinking not to do Fall Gelb again because Germany was not doing well.

I had my weak moment..
warspite1

I'm not surprised. Imagine how you would have felt if this turn had been Snow or Storm?

But it wasn't and so right now I am thinking I am only ever going to play with oil and always do a Fall Gelb as the Germans


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 638
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 12:09:57 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		We always call Fine weather in the N. Temperate "Hitler Weather" but later in the game when there is Storm in the North Monsoon, that is called "Tojo Weather", though really what Tojo needs facing the USN and USMC is Monsoon+Blizzard

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 639
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 12:24:32 PM   
AllenK


Posts: 7259
Joined: 2/17/2014
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

At some point of this game I was thinking not to do Fall Gelb again because Germany was not doing well.

I had my weak moment..
warspite1

I'm not surprised. Imagine how you would have felt if this turn had been Snow or Storm?

But it wasn't and so right now I am thinking I am only ever going to play with oil and always do a Fall Gelb as the Germans



For a look at the effects of rain, snow and storm from S/O 39 Axis 5, see Episode IV: A New Heap.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 5/2/2016 12:26:18 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 640
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 12:44:38 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer

At some point of this game I was thinking not to do Fall Gelb again because Germany was not doing well.

I had my weak moment..
warspite1

I'm not surprised. Imagine how you would have felt if this turn had been Snow or Storm?

But it wasn't and so right now I am thinking I am only ever going to play with oil and always do a Fall Gelb as the Germans



For a look at the effects of rain, snow and storm from S/O 39 Axis 5, see Episode IV: A New Heap.
warspite1

As the attacker, nothing "pees in your Cornflakes" more than bad weather..and bad combat rolls... and of course bad ground strike dice.... and insufficent turn length.... and not getting the last impulse.... and and and

Its why I %^&ing hate this stupid game....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 641
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:27:13 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Nov/Dec '39
Allied #2

Land: China, France
Combined: USSR, USA, CW

CW fly a naval bomber to the 1 box in the North Sea.

USA send a TRS with a FTR2 to Polynesia. US submarines practice outside Truk.

CW send a escorted TRS, loaded with a militia, to the 1 box in the North Sea. They also send 5 battleships to the 3 box in the North Sea.





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Post #: 642
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:30:19 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		CW does not search at all.

Will Germany search in the North Sea?




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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 643
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:36:17 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1686
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
quote:

For a look at the effects of rain, snow and storm from S/O 39 Axis 5, see Episode IV: A New Heap.


Actually from a weather and turn end standpoint in that game (you and Mayhemizer can speak to the luck of the combat die rolls), it was not too bad for a Fall Gelb. As I recall you had: Axis 1 (auto fine which we wont count), Axis 3 fine, Axis 5 rain, Axis 9 fine, Axis 11 rain. I would take this playing the Axis and call it a nice S/O'39 turn.




< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 5/2/2016 9:40:15 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to AllenK)
Post #: 644
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:38:43 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


Posts: 7654
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From: Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

CW does not search at all.

Will Germany search in the North Sea?



Yes please and intercept NAV to box 2.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 645
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:46:15 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		CW fly a 5 strength Hurricane to the one box.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 646
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:49:25 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Both sides fail to find (Rolls 7 and 4).

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 647
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 9:57:58 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Nov/Dec '39
Allied #2

CW ground strike three German stacks in Belgium and France.

Will Germany use their FTR2 to intercept one of the bombers?






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Orm -- 5/2/2016 10:18:27 PM >

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 648
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:07:40 PM   
AllenK


Posts: 7259
Joined: 2/17/2014
From: England
Status: offline 		Hot communique in from the Luftwaffe. Intercept the 0-factor Fairy Battle. Land the Me-109 as close to Paris as possible, which looks to be on the stack they are trying to cover.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 5/2/2016 10:09:45 PM >

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 649
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:09:51 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Interesting developments. The first turn had a lot of losses on the Axis side, due to bad die rolls. But the good weather in the first impulse of the second turn is hammering the French. The one thing the French don't want is another fine weather turn for the Axis. If that happens, things are really, really bad...

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Peter

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Post #: 650
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:14:51 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Nov/Dec '39
Allied #2

The German fighter eliminate those pesky British bombers.




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< Message edited by Orm -- 5/2/2016 10:18:48 PM >

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 651
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:16:27 PM   
Orm


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From: Sweden
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quote:

The one thing the French don't want is another fine weather turn for the Axis. If that happens, things are really, really bad...

Things are already really, really bad and bad weather will not change things.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 652
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:24:19 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

The one thing the French don't want is another fine weather turn for the Axis. If that happens, things are really, really bad...

Things are already really, really bad and bad weather will not change things.


Well, there should be a lot of units arriving for the French, with the shattered units including. The sooner the turn ends, the better. Any good weatherman in London forecasting depressions?

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Peter

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Post #: 653
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:28:38 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		With rolls of 10,5,4 and 6 both strikes were a waste of fuel.




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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 654
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:37:30 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		USSR continue to rail a artillery westwards from Siberia. It now reach Ufa.

CW rail a militia to Perth.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 655
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/2/2016 10:45:38 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		France and UK has trouble with their co-operation. CW High Command has not bothered to informed the French High Command about the CW moves. Unfortunately this has lead to some confusion and delay in the relocation of troops. The ensuing chaos will, hopefully, be solved by tomorrow.





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< Message edited by Orm -- 5/2/2016 10:49:02 PM >

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 656
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/3/2016 6:58:40 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

France and UK has trouble with their co-operation. CW High Command has not bothered to informed the French High Command about the CW moves.

warspite1

No need to have stopped the game - my ideas and plans seem to be rubbish anyway.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 657
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/3/2016 7:20:52 AM   
Orm


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quote:

No need to have stopped the game - my ideas and plans seem to be rubbish anyway.

Better than mine.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 658
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/3/2016 7:21:51 AM   
Orm


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Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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quote:

No need to have stopped the game - my ideas and plans seem to be rubbish anyway.

Your plan was the best we could do. But it didn't take into account the CW involvement in the French defence.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 659
RE: 4 player E-mail: AAR - 5/3/2016 9:52:51 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		USSR reorganize their forces in Persia.



Picture from Nov/Dec '39 Impulse #2 (Allied) - Reorganization

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< Message edited by Orm -- 5/3/2016 9:54:27 AM >

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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