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RE: Trucks - 2/21/2017 8:41:32 PM   
shermanny

 

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I had a game of WITE that arrived at a situation not too terribly different from where you are now. I came within a hair of losing before rallying and pulling out a win. The thing that took me by surprise was how bad Soviet supply and morale get in early 1942. Defenses that would have been perfectly adequate in earlier iterations of the game just crumbled.

And where did my opponent go to come so close to winning? North and East, through Ivanov and Yaroslavl, Moscow, and to the gates of Gorki. I actually had to evacuate Gorki's industry. I knew I could hold the town, but I couldn't prevent it from being attacked and that can destroy industry.

In the end, I made it to the October 1942 reboot of Soviet morale, and stacks of guards rifle corps in Tambov held. One more city and it would have been over.

If you find yourself surviving 1942 with a frontage that is further West in the South than it is in the North, the natural line of counterattack is from the South, heading NW. You will be running parallel to the rivers and every advance tends to lengthen his frontage or, if he wants to avoid that, it makes him withdraw without a fight from the NE population centers you want to recover. Going straight west would be nice, but then you face good river lines and it's too obvious and you don't make him defend on a wide front.

Once you get force superiority you have the possibility of major operations, pockets, etc. But to cash in on that you need maybe 30 mobile corps, many of them should be guards tank corps, and you need enough guards rifle corps to be able to break the German lines before sending the tanks through. Enough would mean say 40 of them. But 50 or 60 would be better.

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 211
RE: Trucks - 2/22/2017 11:06:14 AM   
topeverest


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Thanks for the ideas.

I hadn't really thought of changing the axis of attack. That is a very good idea

I agree that the enemy soon will have the initiative. The question is what type of 42 offensive he will choose.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shermanny

I had a game of WITE that arrived at a situation not too terribly different from where you are now. I came within a hair of losing before rallying and pulling out a win. The thing that took me by surprise was how bad Soviet supply and morale get in early 1942. Defenses that would have been perfectly adequate in earlier iterations of the game just crumbled.

And where did my opponent go to come so close to winning? North and East, through Ivanov and Yaroslavl, Moscow, and to the gates of Gorki. I actually had to evacuate Gorki's industry. I knew I could hold the town, but I couldn't prevent it from being attacked and that can destroy industry.

In the end, I made it to the October 1942 reboot of Soviet morale, and stacks of guards rifle corps in Tambov held. One more city and it would have been over.

If you find yourself surviving 1942 with a frontage that is further West in the South than it is in the North, the natural line of counterattack is from the South, heading NW. You will be running parallel to the rivers and every advance tends to lengthen his frontage or, if he wants to avoid that, it makes him withdraw without a fight from the NE population centers you want to recover. Going straight west would be nice, but then you face good river lines and it's too obvious and you don't make him defend on a wide front.

Once you get force superiority you have the possibility of major operations, pockets, etc. But to cash in on that you need maybe 30 mobile corps, many of them should be guards tank corps, and you need enough guards rifle corps to be able to break the German lines before sending the tanks through. Enough would mean say 40 of them. But 50 or 60 would be better.



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Turn 35 Summary - 2/26/2017 1:40:38 AM   
topeverest


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Russian attacks continue and take most of ground east of Dneper.
Further north City fighting at Zaporozyhe, Kaluga, and Kalinin - Germans hold all three hexes in heavy fighting.

Russians begin to address trucks issues by disbanding some HQ and units of minimal value. Also moved many units onto rails where feasible. Will track progress to determine how much more I need.

Tank production is now in full swing. They probably wont be a problem going forward.

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Disbanded units - 2/26/2017 1:43:30 AM   
topeverest


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Here are the specifics on what I disbanded for trucks




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Lower Ukraine - 2/26/2017 1:46:03 AM   
topeverest


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getting close to ejecting the axis across Dneper




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Moscow - 2/26/2017 1:47:47 AM   
topeverest


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Not so successful here - enemy still one hex from Moscow.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 2/26/2017 1:48:06 AM >


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Turn 36 - February 19, 1942 - 2/27/2017 3:22:29 AM   
topeverest


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Grindy attacking continues with minimal gains. Attached is a picture of the MLR as of this turn compared to the beginning of the winter offensive and the major objectives I set

Also am working the LAG3 out of the fighter rotation, as it is the worst fighter. Aside - don't think I have shot down an enemy
fighter in months.

SO a successful campaign all in all so far. Planning to grind it out for the rest of the winter.

Axis VP - Pre 228 Current 205




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 2/27/2017 3:34:04 AM >


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Vehicles - 2/27/2017 3:26:11 AM   
topeverest


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Working on a better understanding of vehicles, and I still seem to be falling short.

Tried to calculate the number of vehicles built and couldn't match the number in the command report
I took my factories, reduced damaged factors, applied 10 and .55 - and came nowhere close to the
number built by subtracting this turn from last turn vehicles built.

What am I doing wrong?





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< Message edited by topeverest -- 2/27/2017 3:29:19 AM >


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Losses - 2/27/2017 3:39:04 AM   
topeverest


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Germans over 1M casualties

4500 AFV, and trending less than 2 to 1 AFV losses

I like those ratios so far.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 2/27/2017 3:40:15 AM >


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RE: Losses - 2/27/2017 4:45:47 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Put the vehicle calculation aside for a moment. What does your event log say for vehicle production?


Example:
PRODUCTION

Scenario production usage: German 100%, Axis Allies 100%, Soviet 100%

150000 tons of RESOURCES produced in 175 resource centers

64000 tons of OIL produced in 128 oil centers

35760 tons of FUEL produced in 149 fuel refineries (35760 available)
44700 tons of OIL consumed by FUEL production

106700 tons of SUPPLIES produced in 202 heavy industry centers (106700 available)
106700 tons of RESOURCES consumed by SUPPLY production

104325 ARMAMENTS produced in 335 armaments factories (100% production level, 104325 available)
20865 tons of SUPPLIES consumed by ARMAMENTS production

774 VEHICLES produced in 140 vehicle factories (100% production level, 774 available)
3870 tons of SUPPLIES consumed by VEHICLE production

It should be something like 660 produced. 120 factories *5.5 vehicles. Add 800 for LL, total 1,460-ish trucks added this week.

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 2/27/2017 4:52:04 AM >

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Vehicles - 2/27/2017 12:25:29 PM   
topeverest


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Here is that calc






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< Message edited by topeverest -- 2/27/2017 12:26:26 PM >


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RE: Vehicles - 2/27/2017 2:02:45 PM   
M60A3TTS


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Each turn there is a die roll for damaged factories to determine if they will produce anything. Your factory at Lysovo probably failed that roll. That would give you 110*5.5= 605.

In my earlier post I mentioned I got an extra 4 trucks for reasons unknown. Here you got an extra 3. Bottom line, don't rely on a calculation here to figure out exactly what you get each week IF you have damaged factories, because of the die roll variable, just go with what the event log says. Once your factories are all undamaged and not moving about, the numbers remain fairly consistent. On occasion you may also produce fewer items if there are less supplies available than the factories require. You have 219 heavy industry factories, so that shouldn't happen if you manage things even half way right.

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RE: Vehicles - 2/28/2017 10:09:54 PM   
topeverest


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HAHAHAHA

Me manage things right! I can't promise that. In fact, I think I have proven that I am at best marginally fit to be in high command.

I promise to take it seriously, do my best, and play to the end. Along the way, perhaps I will earn the right to say I learned how to manage things right.

My esteemed opponent and I have already agreed to switch sides after this contest.


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Each turn there is a die roll for damaged factories to determine if they will produce anything. Your factory at Lysovo probably failed that roll. That would give you 110*5.5= 605.

In my earlier post I mentioned I got an extra 4 trucks for reasons unknown. Here you got an extra 3. Bottom line, don't rely on a calculation here to figure out exactly what you get each week IF you have damaged factories, because of the die roll variable, just go with what the event log says. Once your factories are all undamaged and not moving about, the numbers remain fairly consistent. On occasion you may also produce fewer items if there are less supplies available than the factories require. You have 219 heavy industry factories, so that shouldn't happen if you manage things even half way right.



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RE: Turn 35 Summary - 3/1/2017 5:45:58 PM   
GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

 

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I believe if your now managing trucks you might be in trouble?

You should manage them from the beginning.

In my game I have 194,000 in pool and need 115k trucks on turn 36, the southern front is way past railheads.

You look to be doing good so far, very close game over all - good luck.

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RE: Turn 35 Summary - 3/4/2017 5:17:47 PM   
topeverest


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Agree -

Its not learning unless it is painful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralfeldmarschallWalterModel

I believe if your now managing trucks you might be in trouble?

You should manage them from the beginning.

In my game I have 194,000 in pool and need 115k trucks on turn 36, the southern front is way past railheads.

You look to be doing good so far, very close game over all - good luck.



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Turn 37 - end of the russian winter - 3/4/2017 5:23:37 PM   
topeverest


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Last turn in February 1942 - the end of the Russian Winter offensive.

Some surprising victories. I took the opportunity to attack along the entire MLR and won a number of them, including a number around Moscow.

And I am actively managing trucks at this point... below are the losses for the winter - I propose that it was a successful campaign from that perspective.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 3/4/2017 5:24:09 PM >


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Moscow view - 3/4/2017 5:25:35 PM   
topeverest


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Here is what Moscow looks like - took Kaluga this turn...




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 3/4/2017 5:32:45 PM >


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trucks - 3/4/2017 5:37:42 PM   
topeverest


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cant really measure if I am poorly off, but here is a good summary of the truck situation.

I disbanded an artillery army this turn, and created three reserve armies with short supply lines.
Also working to shorten supply lines for all armies...




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 3/4/2017 5:39:26 PM >


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Suppply Grid - 3/4/2017 5:46:46 PM   
topeverest


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I outran my supply grid in the lower Ukraine. Victim of my own success to a large degree

Pulled back two armies to reduce the impact of trucks - but wont retreat for sure...




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 3/4/2017 5:47:05 PM >


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Andy M

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Turn 38, March 5 1942 - 3/5/2017 2:48:24 AM   
topeverest


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Russian guns fall silent, the winter counteroffensive has ended, below is the deployment.

I am keeping 10 armies in refit / reserve until the enemy commits to a major offensive

trucks getting further under control




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trucks - 3/5/2017 2:50:40 AM   
topeverest


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feeling marginally better with all the changes I have done - perhaps I will be in a good place for a late year offensive...




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 3/5/2017 2:52:41 AM >


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Turn 41 End of March 1942 - 3/10/2017 10:56:00 AM   
topeverest


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The last 3 snow turns haven't had enough combat to shake a stick at.

Following activities occurred:
1. Germany has pulled back some of its forces into local reserves and begun refitting operations
2. Russian reorganization for defensive operations has finished - 11 total armies are in reserve, and defense in depth has been reestablished along the MLR
3. trucks continues to improve - 200 (87) this past turn improved from 188 (117) pm turn 33
4. all Russian armor is pulled off the line and ready to convert to corps. 484 AP's are available
5. Russia has finished building armies 59 are present. Cant imagine needing any more except to build some of the new types as they come available

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Map - 3/10/2017 11:05:32 AM   
topeverest


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Here is the MLR




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RE: Support Unit Check - 3/13/2017 2:25:24 AM   
topeverest


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SO - as a rookie, I have not built any support units. In rereading the rules, I totally misunderstood building support units.
When I was transferring units, I thought I was building them

Oh well. At least I understand now.

Currently I have no AP's. I need 2 more turns to finish building out all my armored corps - or I can build out support units.
I am open to thoughts which is more impactful. below is more or less what I have. I clearly need more armor and sappers.

Now clearly is the time to fix stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielBora

quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Question regarding support units.

What is a suggested mix of support units. I need to set them to manual next turn and disband some units of marginal use. here is what I have.

12 mortars (9 heavy)
28 AA units attached to armies (not cities)
103 artillery units
25 motorcycle
45 engineer (22 regiment and 23 battalion)

What would be a good approach. Thinking of getting rid of AAs first for sappers

Thoughts?



this is what the soviets had in jan 42, so you could make up your mind .

56 tank batalions
57 atg regiments
119 arty regiments
88 aaa bat + 2 aaa regiments.
18 mortar batalions
6 rocket regiments + (73 batalions (equivalent to 24 regiments))
31 separate ponton bridge batalions
150 engineer batalions (equivalent to 50 sapper regiments)
32 engineer brigades (construction units)

http://teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/BoevojSostavSA/1942/oob-1942.html








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RE: Support Unit Check - 3/13/2017 3:52:07 AM   
ericv

 

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I am no top expert, but ideally you would have built the sapper regiments way in advance to get them training for XP. 3 sappers Regiments and later on 2 Sapper Regiments + 1 Heavy SU /Heavy Tank Regiment per Corps to fight the Panthers and Tigers. Keep in mind : Sappers give a lot of CV for a lot less truck use. Motorcycle regs./ SU reg/ Heavy Tank Regs really eat away at the trucks.

Having said all that. Take a look at briang's game. He is a really good player, and he plays with 3 heavy tank regs per Pz Corps.. So there are more good solutions.

The Tank Corps will begin converting to a much better TOE in 6-42. They used to anyway. Always an idea to spare them until that time.
Dont bother with the batallions. 1 AA batallion for each Air command. Just let the sapper batallions sit in Ural MD or disband them if you can spare the AP.

Anyway for now I would build Sapper Regs and Form Tank Corps Simultaneously so that you will have a couple of filed out Tank Corps and go from there.

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RE: Support Unit Check - 3/13/2017 8:52:43 AM   
Stelteck

 

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I personnally have mixed feeling about support units. They have a huge cost in political points and are not so efficient. They do not do so much damage (even heavy artillery & tanks) nor provide so much CV value.
(But do not disband them, if you have them, use them. Disbanding have a cost).

In my game as soviet, i put 3 support units to each corps and large support units to each HQ, but i wonder if it would have been a good idea to create more in game units (such as cavalry corps) instead.





< Message edited by Stelteck -- 3/13/2017 10:04:51 AM >

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RE: Support Unit Check - 3/13/2017 10:49:21 AM   
Nix77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

I personnally have mixed feeling about support units. They have a huge cost in political points and are not so efficient. They do not do so much damage (even heavy artillery & tanks) nor provide so much CV value.
(But do not disband them, if you have them, use them. Disbanding have a cost).

In my game as soviet, i put 3 support units to each corps and large support units to each HQ, but i wonder if it would have been a good idea to create more in game units (such as cavalry corps) instead.


Most of the SUs purpose is to bring some extra effect to the combat, not just plain CV. Artillery disrupts units, damages elements (I think?) and even destroys fortifications. Sappers help with forts, AT guns and SU armor bring out a punch against panzers. With experience, even their CV values start to be noticeable. I wouldn't skip building more of them, as early as possible.

Try to have a full compliment of artillery in each active army (that probably means around 200 regiments in '42), and raise an effective force of sappers to be used with your assaulting forces (could mean anything from 50 to 100 regiments, depending on your setup). I wouldn't be surprised if having a PVO AA Regiment in all of the front armies will bleed the Lufwaffe slowly too.

Optimally you should have 9 SUs in each army, since that's the maximum you can commit to a normal field battle. Of those, at least 3 should be artillery, for the extra commitment chance. I think my basic setup is 3 artillery, 1 heavy artillery, 2 sapper regiments, 1 PVO AA and on top of that whatever 2 regiments I have at hand or maybe a tank battalion or some more artillery. Additionally I usually have 2 construction battalions and one RR brigade for helping with early fortification building and rail building later on.

I'm not sure how effective the tank battalions are as they cost trucks and precious armour, but since they upgrade to regiments in '43, I'd say they worth using for the long term.

There are a few other battalions that upgrade to regiments (also some regiments that downgrade to battalions!). Even the tiny TD Battery in '41 can act as a training unit for the future SU-76/122 regiments.

Studying the ToE upgrade paths really helps you decide what you need and what's not so useful for you. In general, the battalions that don't upgrade to regiments you shouldn't ever build. Construction battalions have a limited use since they can spread their construction value around more efficiently and don't have such a high support need as RR brigades.

< Message edited by Nix77 -- 3/13/2017 10:53:23 AM >

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Post #: 237
RE: Support Unit Check - 3/13/2017 12:34:50 PM   
Stelteck

 

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I did some test during my game with a true in game Anti Tank Brigade.

The results where like this :
Rifle division against Panzer division : Number of panzer killed/Damage : 2
Rifle division + anti tank brigade against panzer division : Number of panzer killed/Damage : 10

So there is an effect, but quite small. And an anti tank brigade is worth far more than a simple anti tank regiment.

For common artillery, in 1943 we have breakthough and artillery division, with for at least ten times the effect of a good support artillery regiment. And if you use only one division, the effect is not so big in combat.
To really see a decisive effect in battle, i have to use from 3 to 9 arty division. The effect at 9 is amazing, but you really have to put a lot of artillery, and support regiments have only 24 to 32 guns, while you need thousands of guns for a real effect.

The game have a amazing "battle" phase were all equipments shoot at each other, but in the end this phase looks under-used, compared to basic CV and leader check. I would really love having a more important "battle phase".


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 3/13/2017 12:37:46 PM >

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Post #: 238
Turn 49 May 21 ---- Suport Units - 3/17/2017 1:53:56 AM   
topeverest


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Thanks everyone for helping...


I finally am starting to understand support units. Since trucks are on my mind, given my deficit, I built this chart to help me decide what to do.

I disbanded my armor battalions and motorcycle regiments de to there truck costs. Since I have 37 armored corps, I need to conserve trucks.

I am in process of building 3 sapper btn, 1 AT regiment per army. Thereafter, I will come up for air. Should be complete next turn.
I assume artillery / mortars are next







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< Message edited by topeverest -- 3/17/2017 2:05:53 AM >


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RE: Turn 49 May 21 ---- Suport Units - 3/17/2017 3:51:08 AM   
ericv

 

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I do think it is better to get Sapper Regiments instead of batallions. First, they pack a lot more punch than batallions for relatively negligible truck cost, Second, Sapper Regiments promote to Guard status. Batallions won't, so there is this morale boost you need to consider.

That goes for all Soviet Support units.. Practically all batallions will never promote to guard status, almost all regiments do.

Good Luck with your game!

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