RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> World in Flames >> After Action Report >> RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR)

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/2/2017 5:55:43 PM

AllenK

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5 moves. Makes sense although it's an AT gun moving into East Poland.

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/2/2017 6:08:08 PM

AllenK

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Just to clarify, did you want to invade two coastal hexes in Bulgaria? Varna port and the hes SW?

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/2/2017 6:17:59 PM

Mayhemizer_slith

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If Bulgaria has 2 ports, then both ports.

If Bulgaria has only 1 port, then port and some other hex.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/2/2017 6:20:19 PM

AllenK

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The other port can't be invaded.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/2/2017 6:28:34 PM

Mayhemizer_slith

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OK, I forgot that.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 1/2/2017 6:29:53 PM >

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Post #: 65

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 5:09:52 AM

Jagdtiger14

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Here is an option to consider. Once you have Bulgaria...taking the USSR Balkan invasion gambit to its ultimate dream conclusion is this (which I have never done or debated...Centuur might be better able to comment on its possiblities):

Do not request Bessarabia yet (so Axis can not align Hungary). Build up Soviet forces in Bulgaria (1 HQ, no MECH or ARM) to the point you can take Yugoslavia. Remember to keep enough force in Bulgaria and east of Bessarabia in case the Germans align Romania. Bessarabia border is a good place for the MECH/ARM. This build up occurs N/D'39, J/F'40 with the possible attack vs Yugo happening the first fair weather impulse in M/A'40. Once you have Yugo, you now aim for Hungary. Then you demand Bessarabia.

Now this is all utopian of course because the Axis will respond, but the question is how? In this game, the Germans decided on Fall Weiss. This means they could have Paris no sooner than near the end of J/A'40. It's very possible this could take longer of course (my fear and why I'm a true believer in Fall Gelb) which would play well into Soviet hands in this gambit.

So how might the Axis respond (happening while Germany is building up/fighting France/CW/low countries)?
1. As soon as a build up of Soviet forces begins, the Axis DOW Yugo to prevent this gambit going any further (this is what I would expect)...but this could cause Axis losses in Winter, units taken from Germany's western front.
2. Axis allow Soviet DOW on Yugo and send in peace keepers making it more difficult, but taking units away from the western front and losing those units.
3. Perhaps Centuur has other possibilities?

The important thing to remember is to not be caught with your Soviet pants down with units deep in the Balkans while the Germans finish off the French. This would make Barbarossa very easy and cost the Soviets dearly.

No matter what you decide to do, leave white print cheap units to garrison what you have taken after you leave.

If you decide on only Bulgaria, keep some quality units there before you demand Bessarabia...in all likelihood Romania will give up, but if not, you have a two front war vs them.

Centuur?

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Mayhemizer_slith)

Post #: 66

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 5:33:43 AM

Mayhemizer_slith

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Can USSR align Yugoslavia if they have 4 corps in Bulgaria?

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 5:37:12 AM

Jagdtiger14

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On the Allied side, only CW and France can align Yugo (any adjacent countries).

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 1:05:55 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Here is an option to consider. Once you have Bulgaria...taking the USSR Balkan invasion gambit to its ultimate dream conclusion is this (which I have never done or debated...Centuur might be better able to comment on its possiblities):

Do not request Bessarabia yet (so Axis can not align Hungary). Build up Soviet forces in Bulgaria (1 HQ, no MECH or ARM) to the point you can take Yugoslavia. Remember to keep enough force in Bulgaria and east of Bessarabia in case the Germans align Romania. Bessarabia border is a good place for the MECH/ARM. This build up occurs N/D'39, J/F'40 with the possible attack vs Yugo happening the first fair weather impulse in M/A'40. Once you have Yugo, you now aim for Hungary. Then you demand Bessarabia.

Now this is all utopian of course because the Axis will respond, but the question is how? In this game, the Germans decided on Fall Weiss. This means they could have Paris no sooner than near the end of J/A'40. It's very possible this could take longer of course (my fear and why I'm a true believer in Fall Gelb) which would play well into Soviet hands in this gambit.

So how might the Axis respond (happening while Germany is building up/fighting France/CW/low countries)?
1. As soon as a build up of Soviet forces begins, the Axis DOW Yugo to prevent this gambit going any further (this is what I would expect)...but this could cause Axis losses in Winter, units taken from Germany's western front.
2. Axis allow Soviet DOW on Yugo and send in peace keepers making it more difficult, but taking units away from the western front and losing those units.
3. Perhaps Centuur has other possibilities?

The important thing to remember is to not be caught with your Soviet pants down with units deep in the Balkans while the Germans finish off the French. This would make Barbarossa very easy and cost the Soviets dearly.

No matter what you decide to do, leave white print cheap units to garrison what you have taken after you leave.

If you decide on only Bulgaria, keep some quality units there before you demand Bessarabia...in all likelihood Romania will give up, but if not, you have a two front war vs them.

Centuur?

I don't have the rulebook available now, but I believe that Germany can break the pact the moment a Soviet unit enters Yugoslavia. And that's something the USSR doesn't want, I believe.

< Message edited by Centuur -- 1/3/2017 1:06:25 PM >

_____________________________

Peter

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Post #: 69

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 1:58:40 PM

Jagdtiger14

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quote:

I don't have the rulebook available now, but I believe that Germany can break the pact the moment a Soviet unit enters Yugoslavia. And that's something the USSR doesn't want, I believe.

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet Pact: If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step.

Maybe that's why I never went further with it?

Perhaps the Soviets can send in peace-keepers if/when Germany DOW's Yugo?

_____________________________

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 70

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 3:11:36 PM

Jagdtiger14

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Centuur: Interesting point you have about USSR building a MAR div concerning Finnish borderlands. I've never seen that. Not totally sold on it though...3 BP's is a lot for USSR almost always, especially 3 1939 BP's. Proper commitment by USSR will avoid the need for that anyway.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/3/2017 7:38:49 PM

Centuur

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

quote:

I don't have the rulebook available now, but I believe that Germany can break the pact the moment a Soviet unit enters Yugoslavia. And that's something the USSR doesn't want, I believe.

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet Pact: If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step.

Maybe that's why I never went further with it? Perhaps the Soviets can send in peace-keepers if/when Germany DOW's Yugo?

Sure they can, if they want Germany to break the pact... It's simply not an option. The Soviet Union can only conquer Bulgaria (and if the Bulgarian army gets setup in Sofia, that's not simply done).

_____________________________

Peter

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/4/2017 2:48:12 AM

Jagdtiger14

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quote:

19.5.3 Breaking the Nazi-Soviet Pact: If a Soviet controlled unit enters any hex in Denmark, Greece, Hungary, Norway, Sweden, or Yugoslavia, then the German player can break the Nazi-Soviet pact during any Axis declaration of war step. Maybe that's why I never went further with it? Perhaps the Soviets can send in peace-keepers if/when Germany DOW's Yugo? Sure they can, if they want Germany to break the pact... It's simply not an option. The Soviet Union can only conquer Bulgaria (and if the Bulgarian army gets setup in Sofia, that's not simply done).

_____________________________ Peter

Wow! So far my dumbest question of 2017...its all down hill from here...

_____________________________

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 73

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/4/2017 5:20:50 PM

Mayhemizer_slith

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I will wait and see what Germany is going to do. If they have slow start (meaning CW and France are doing well next summer) and Germany goes to Spain, USSR might as well attack Yugoslavia. If they break the pact, USSR DoW on Germany and starts bombing German factories. In my Game all possible German units are in Spain, they don't have enough units to start war with USSR.

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Post #: 74

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/4/2017 7:42:42 PM

Centuur

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That's indeed a possible strategy and quite a good one too. However, don't advertise your intensions, because Germany might elect to do a Barbarossa and not go into Spain. If that happens with a large Soviet army in Bulgaria, the USSR is in a very bad position.

< Message edited by Centuur -- 1/4/2017 7:44:06 PM >

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Peter

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Post #: 75

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/6/2017 3:57:07 AM

Jagdtiger14

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Since the turn could end after this impulse...make sure you cut the rail line coming through to Turkey, and then there is the Bulgarian resource as well.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/6/2017 8:58:52 AM

Mayhemizer_slith

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Yes, those are my objectives. I bring more units and attack when I have enough units for that.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/7/2017 6:33:31 PM

Mayhemizer_slith

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Can I start reverse game impulse? What will CW, USA and China do?

If we think that Egypt is quite safe, should CW take Wavell to France (TRS can go to CSV and go to any port later)?

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Post #: 78

RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/7/2017 6:43:31 PM

Jagdtiger14

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I always take both CW HQ's to France. Egypt can be made safe without Wavell.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/7/2017 9:01:58 PM

Centuur

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Is Egypt really save? If so, Wavell should go to France. However, if Balbo is sitting on the border, keep Wavell in Egypt unless you've got some good INF or MIL in the country.

And pay attention on the Italians. Make sure Wavell arrives in Marseilles on the TRS (or use a combined action to land him in France in the same impulse you move him out of Egypt).

Wavell on a TRS in the Western Med is asking for the Italians to DoW the CW and use the surprise impulse to try to find the loaded TRS...

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Peter

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 7:13:17 AM

Jagdtiger14

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I'm assuming you are sending an HQ into Bulgaria with the TRS? Consider re-orging the TRS with the HQ so you get another chance to send a unit in this turn.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 8:44:48 AM

Mayhemizer_slith

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Good idea! Except TRS is not in same hex with HQ. I'll do that in future turns.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 8:44:56 AM

AllenK

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At the moment both Italian HQ's are in Italy. The ARM HQ is at La Spezia with an INF Div where there is a TRANS and SCS to ship them with. The Italians are giving the appearance of leaving North Africa as the ART they started on the Tunisian border is now on a TRANS in the East Med. It's too early to move Wavell. If I ship him to France now, the Italians could land the ART and ship the HQ and Div to the Egyptian border. In that scenario there would only be a gun and TERR left in defence. An INF Div could be immediately brought in from UK but that's still thin. If Wavell went to Marseille he could reorganise the TRANS which would then sail to Biscay and pick up CW Mech but I'm not sure the TRANS has the range to get back to Egypt. It would need to be one of the 4-4 ones. Either way it's at least a couple impulses away with a return likely though hostile seas. Allies will need units in East and West Med to negate any In Presence of Enemy effects, which would certainly stop the TRANS getting back to Egypt.

If there was another chit in the Ge/It pool, I'd DoW Italy to have a go at the TRANS in the East Med. The Bulgarian gambit has left only 1 in the pool.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 1/8/2017 8:50:57 AM >

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 8:47:17 AM

Mayhemizer_slith

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It's not that easy to keep Italians in supply when they attack Egypt.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 8:57:27 AM

AllenK

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True but if they are prepared to commit CP's and possibly the TRANS it only needs a few high search rolls by CW to take out a weak defence. Let's see where that ART goes.

< Message edited by AllenK -- 1/8/2017 8:58:13 AM >

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 10:51:47 AM

Centuur

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I agree with you. If you can use the Queens to ship the Sydney MIL to Egypt next turn, it's early enough to send Wavell to France IMHO.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 11:13:50 AM

AllenK

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Can't do it next turn, it would be J/F 40 before it could arrive. Queens are in the North Sea. I think they could make Suez on RTB but then they can only get to Cape Naturaliste, which would need Sydney Mil to have railed across Australia, making it disorganised until J/F 40.

In the UK, VIII MECH could be sent using one of the 4-4 TRANS. II INF would be a possibility but I want that for Gibraltar. London and Manchester MILS are also options but I'm holding those to either send to France if Wavell makes it or Rotterdam if it isn't taken in the first invasion impulse.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 12:34:04 PM

AllenK

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What option do the French wish to take this impulse?

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 1:22:19 PM

Mayhemizer_slith

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Land action.

Cav from German border towards Italian border. Inf from NE of Cav fills the hole. HQ goes safe to woods.

If Inf in Bordeaux can be railed, rail it to northern front.

No air missions.

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RE: ALLENK, MAYHEMIZER AND THEIR ALLIES ONLY (Reverse AAR) - 1/8/2017 2:12:28 PM

AllenK

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Do you want the USSR TRANS to load the HQ or INF?

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