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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> After Action Reports >> Interesting observation

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Interesting observation - 1/8/2017 12:09:32 AM

ravenflight

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Hi All,

I was playing as France and had an incredible run of luck. Picking the right chits, rolling well etc and ended up well and truly dominating Europe.

Anyway, at one stage I was in a situation where I could make my drive on Moscow and St Petersburg. There was only a weak garrison, and no real army to stop me. So I marched without supplies knowing I was going to take casualties along the way and know that I had so many reserves that it really didn't matter.

So, it got me to thinking... I wonder if that's how real life emperors and generals think? 'Yeah, men are going to die... meh' and sleep soundly that night. I'd like to think that they realise the magnitude of what they are doing. I mean, if they were real men not just counter numbers I would have agonized over it. I could understand rationalising the sacrifice 'the war would be over 2 months earlier, and with less loss of life' etc, but to just blindly go 'what the heck'.

Does make me wonder.

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/8/2017 1:34:31 PM

pzgndr

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Just to confirm, this is with the latest public beta version and on what difficulty settings for the computer opponents? At some point, I'm willing to reconsider the various bonuses given to the AI. I did add a minor 5% bonus to easy level that was not there before. Additionally, I added some diplomatic bonuses to medium and hard based on the natural alliances table to beef up the AI and make it a little tougher. So, if you're playing on harder levels and still dominating Europe, then there's room to make the game more challenging. Thanks for the feedback!

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Empires in Arms Development Team

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Post #: 2

RE: Interesting observation - 1/8/2017 8:09:44 PM

ravenflight

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I dunno what version I have. The one you download at $29.99USD. Ihave only been doing the easier AI's, not really taking the game seriously because I'm just trying to get my head around how it is played.

Are there other versions around?

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/9/2017 12:28:47 AM

pzgndr

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Yikes. Please try the new public beta at http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4200237 and follow the instructions? If you're playing with the original game from 9 years ago, there's a lot that has been fixed/improved/enhanced since then. It's nice to see new players getting into a great game.

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Empires in Arms Development Team

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Post #: 4

RE: Interesting observation - 1/9/2017 1:43:13 AM

ravenflight

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Well, I'm actually an old player from the original boardgame :)

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/10/2017 10:33:42 AM

ravenflight

Posts: 29
Joined: 1/2/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Yikes. Please try the new public beta at (link removed because I can't put in links) and follow the instructions? If you're playing with the original game from 9 years ago, there's a lot that has been fixed/improved/enhanced since then. It's nice to see new players getting into a great game.

Ok, I downloaded what I think is the right version:

1.21.03?

If so, here are some observations:

I started a game (complete AI except for me as Britain).

On setup I accidentally forgot to set up my fleets and selected the 'end current phase' button. I got the warning 'set up everything ya numpty' (fair enough) but it would then not let me put fleets onto the board. It appears a glitch.

I then re-started the game and put the setup on correctly. 3 fleets in Gibraltar with 2 corps. I declared war on Morocco and landed 2 corps on 2 of the fleets and tried to put a depot on the 3rd fleet. It wouldn't let me.

The manual talks about light fleets which don't exist.

So, perhaps I have the wrong version, but it doesn't seem very well rounded if I'm playing the right one.

Let me know please.

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/10/2017 1:30:45 PM

pzgndr

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I will try to recreate the setup glitch. For putting a depot on a fleet, that is done during the land phase and not the naval phase so maybe that's the issue. Else I will try to recreate this and see it there is a glitch. I have not messed with either of these functions and I haven't seen any problems, but I will verify. Good feedback.

You have the correct new version. There is now the classic EIA campaign with only heavy ships/fleets, and an alternate EIH campaign that includes light ships/fleets and transports. So many players of the original boardgame complained about the newer Empires in Harm version that I decided to provide separate versions. Except for the map, it stays the same. Both versions are interesting in their own way. I intend to work on the 1812 campaigns for the next update but that requires some code changes for the setups.

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Empires in Arms Development Team

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Post #: 7

RE: Interesting observation - 1/10/2017 7:51:34 PM

ravenflight

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Hi, no, I DEFINITELY tried to put the depot on the fleet in the land phase. It was at the same time as I landed the corps.

I did see the two campaigns. Thanks for the explanation.

It seems (not enough playtesting done, so I may be wrong) that there is a bit of a crossover in the empires in harm naval tho. I understand from the original game that ANY naval vould carry ANY corps (even a naval of 1 ship). This doesn't seem to be the case. I'm ok with it, but if you wanted it to be strictly EiA, then this (I think) is wrong.

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/10/2017 8:31:07 PM

ravenflight

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Ok, so I did a recreation (of the setup) and it appears to be repeatable, so that's good. It means there is a glitch, but it also means it's somewhere in the script and can be modified.

So, I did it slightly differently this time. I did pretty much the same setup, but 'forgot' to put the cavalry factors into the British Cavalry Corps this time. I didn't put ANY of the fleets down (as in the counters).

The system dialogue box said something along the lines of 'empty corps will be removed' 'ok/cancel'. I said 'ok' and the cavalry corps was removed. I then couldn't put it back down. That said, all of the fleets (which hadn't been put down empty) could be put on the board. So, it appears to be an 'empty counter' problem.

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/10/2017 8:42:41 PM

ravenflight

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Further feedback, it may be that creating a depot on a fleet isn't possible if the fleet has moved that turn. Again, I did the same thing (attempted invasion of Morocco) and put a fleet out from Gib and tried to put a depot on the fleet (in the land phase) and it said I couldn't do it. Next turn I could no problem at all.

Fortunately, I hadn't declared war until February, so I didn't lapse or die of hunger.

I'm fairly certain this isn't as per the original rules tho (that the fleet had to be in the sea area the previous turn).

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/11/2017 12:18:51 AM

pzgndr

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From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenflight
I understand from the original game that ANY naval vould carry ANY corps (even a naval of 1 ship). This doesn't seem to be the case. I'm ok with it, but if you wanted it to be strictly EiA, then this (I think) is wrong.

OK correct, I checked the original rules. There is an optional rule (12.2.4) limiting fleet transport capacity to 10 army factors. However, this is one of those EIH rules for naval transport capacity that was implemented for this game and is described in the manual. It's more realistic?

I have not been able to recreate the setup glitch. I got bumped back to setup and was able to place a counter and add factors. So I don't know? You can of course use the default saved setups or save a custom setup on your own once you have it the way you want it.

I do see the depot placement problem for fleets and will track this down. Thanks.

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/12/2017 5:33:45 AM

ravenflight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenflight
I understand from the original game that ANY naval vould carry ANY corps (even a naval of 1 ship). This doesn't seem to be the case. I'm ok with it, but if you wanted it to be strictly EiA, then this (I think) is wrong.

Transporting factors

OK correct, I checked the original rules. There is an optional rule (12.2.4) limiting fleet transport capacity to 10 army factors. However, this is one of those EIH rules for naval transport capacity that was implemented for this game and is described in the manual. It's more realistic?

I don't think it's particularly realistic. It seems very clear to me that the ships of the line didn't do the transporting but unreprestented transport ships did. For example, the Victory had a compliment of around 850men. III Corps (20 factors) was about 30,000 men at Aeurstadt. If you consider that it wasn't even full strength then 1 factor is clearly more than 1,500 men. There is no way that Victory would have been able to accomodate twice her compliment for transport duties.

Therefore, it's my view that the arbitrary number of factors carried on a fleet are actually being carried on transports being PROTECTED by the Ship of the LIne. If you wanted to have the 28 factor 1 Corp protected by one 'Ship of the Line' that's your business as a commander.

I don't mind any real way of doing things, but just pointing out that I don't think having a certain number of ships required to transport a number of dudes isn't really relevant per se. :).

Depots on Fleets

More research required. I played quite a number of turns and had multiple 'move and deploy depot' situations. It seems a 'first turn' issue.

Compliments

I find the AI very good. I've had quite a good game so far. Pleasant. I think the AI would be very very good as a 'sixth or seventh player' if you can only get a few 'humans' to play.

Complaints

I find the interface really glitchy. Trying to move counters around the board really needs work (IMHO). Unless I'm doing something wrong (likely) you can't seem to pin a bunch of corps together and move 'as one', which is a bit annoying. I also find the inability to slect a path and have the troops follow that path a little frustrating. The fleet moving is quite literally painful. Again, it may be the way I'm doing things, but I select a fleet and try to move it and nothing happens. I click back and forth and literally can take several attempts to move the fleet before it finally moves.

All in all I think it's a fine game, but (to me) can use some corners smoothed out. I don't mean to be nasty. I want for this to be the best it possibly can be, and will therefore give compliments and complaints as I see them. I'm sorry if my fingers seem acidic at times.

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/12/2017 12:15:41 PM

pzgndr

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OK, good feedback on the fleet depot issue. It may well be some supply reset done at the start of the turn that is not done at start of game, so that's a clue for something to look for and fix.

I could reconsider the fleet transport for the next update and try to implement a classic EIA option or something else? A lot of what's in the game was coded 10-15 years ago and didn't start out as a pure EIA game, and the interface is a case in point. I'm in this more or less as a "handyman" to make some simple repairs, not exactly a Bob Vila to make major renovations. It's difficult enough to find exactly where in the code something is happening and then try to make some simple changes. For example, I've been working on the battle summary messages to get it to show starting corps and factors and it's been a challenge.

Thank you for some kind words on the AI improvements. I've been able to resolve several of the old weaknesses so it's better now than before, but still a ways to go. Getting the AI to reinforce battles is on the ToDo list. There are also several Allied ops that should be implemented to get the AI to play well with others, both human and AI. It will never be brilliant of course, but hopefully good enough for solitaire players and small PBEM play groups to have challenging and enjoyable games. We are slowly getting there.

As for nasty and acidic comments? Nah, this is good feedback. There's pages and pages of old abusive arguments on this forum and most everybody seems to have given up and forgotten about this game. I remain optimistic and hopeful that most of the remaining bugs can be resolved. I've managed to resolve about 35 issues off the old bug list so far with this update. Only 127 to go! LOL

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Bill
Empires in Arms Development Team

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/13/2017 10:35:49 AM

ravenflight

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

OK, good feedback on the fleet depot issue. It may well be some supply reset done at the start of the turn that is not done at start of game, so that's a clue for something to look for and fix.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it may have to do with not having a depot in the home port which you need for invasion supply. I'd have to re-test it (and I haven't yet) to see whether I had a depot in London (or similar) which is my norm, but if I did, then it may be an issue of 'existing depot' which of course you can't have in the opening turn of the game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

I could reconsider the fleet transport for the next update and try to implement a classic EIA option or something else? A lot of what's in the game was coded 10-15 years ago and didn't start out as a pure EIA game, and the interface is a case in point. I'm in this more or less as a "handyman" to make some simple repairs, not exactly a Bob Vila to make major renovations. It's difficult enough to find exactly where in the code something is happening and then try to make some simple changes. For example, I've been working on the battle summary messages to get it to show starting corps and factors and it's been a challenge.

It wasn't a criticism, more an observation. There are a lot of random things that happen in wargames which are totally 'what the???' moments. Eventually we have to say 'meh, it's in the rules' and just live with it. I guess (for me) it's one of those 'Is it worth fixing? can we fix it? Yes/no, ok, do it'

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
Thank you for some kind words on the AI improvements. I've been able to resolve several of the old weaknesses so it's better now than before, but still a ways to go. Getting the AI to reinforce battles is on the ToDo list. There are also several Allied ops that should be implemented to get the AI to play well with others, both human and AI. It will never be brilliant of course, but hopefully good enough for solitaire players and small PBEM play groups to have challenging and enjoyable games. We are slowly getting there.

I just finished a game where I played as Britain. I dominated again, but not as well as I did last time. 'Criticisms' (too strong a word, but best I can do in short notice) was that advantages didn't seem to be pressed and Spain did a really stupid thing and let me get away with it.

1 - Spain declared war on me when it's fleet was in Oporto WITH NO GARRISON!!!! I blockaded and landed a corps. Ok, so now I don't have a Spanish fleet to worry about.

2 - France didn't seem to go on the offensive, and everyone ended up ganging up on France eventually. France lost all of her European possessions and nobody invaded EXCEPT SPAIN!!!!

3 - Eventually, I mounted my entire army and navy in Oporto on the way back from the med for a naval invasion of France (effectively landing on the Lille crossing arrow) and just as I was about to launch my attack Austria declared war on me. HUH? Ok. Plan aborted, invade Italy instead and took everything from Switzerland south with the entire British Army, including the Portuguese Corps, 2 Corps from the Ottoman Empire (except one corps that was in St Petersberg with the Swedes)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
As for nasty and acidic comments? Nah, this is good feedback. There's pages and pages of old abusive arguments on this forum and most everybody seems to have given up and forgotten about this game. I remain optimistic and hopeful that most of the remaining bugs can be resolved. I've managed to resolve about 35 issues off the old bug list so far with this update. Only 127 to go! LOL

Good to see. I have some friends who may be interested given the 'free' side of the game. It would be good to see if others find the things I find annoying, annoying also. To me, they are 'glitches' and make it a little 'come on, this should be better', but I can't code to save my life, so I don't know what I'm asking.

Oh, one thing that I think perhaps should be 'on the list' is a checklist on the phase. Like you could have Diplomacy Step with 'any declarations of wars, any this, any that' I found that I sometimes got slowed down (in my conquering of Europe) because I forgot to declare war on a minor when I meant to which means another month gone. It's up to the player to know what they have to do, but given the nature of the game, I think that it would be worthwhile having a prompt so that if you ignore the prompt you've only got yourself to blame.

Then again, I've got a short attention...

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RE: Interesting observation - 1/15/2017 6:44:37 PM

pzgndr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenflight
I have a sneaking suspicion that it may have to do with not having a depot in the home port which you need for invasion supply. I'd have to re-test it (and I haven't yet) to see whether I had a depot in London (or similar) which is my norm, but if I did, then it may be an issue of 'existing depot' which of course you can't have in the opening turn of the game.

Likely so. I was able to invade Algeria on first turn as Spain and added a depot to a heavy fleet. Spain had depots in play. I reran the game without Spanish depots and could not add a depot to the fleets. So I am taking this off my list as an issue.

I have made some progress with improving the political shading on the map, so players can toggle shading on/off in the mini-map and it also applies to the main map. Combat summaries in the log are now showing starting corps/fleets and factors/ships. With FOW 'off' you get daily summaries and casualties. I'm still verifying it works ok, but it seems to.

I have also made a few more tweaks to the AI to improve amphib invasions, DOWs and general land ops. If there aren't any showstopper bugs in the public beta, I'll finalize what I have this week and start wrapping up next week.

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Empires in Arms Development Team

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