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Couple of axis question - 3/17/2017 11:20:15 PM   
cato12

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2011
Status: offline 		Both these questions relate to supply

1. no manpower

I'm seeing this issue even after a handful of turns. For example I've got a couple of infantry divisions on refit in berlin which are at 50% strength yet the supply screen for these divisions reads no manpower = 100

The production screen reads

#rifle squad = 285
rifle squad = 2698

What are the differences with these squads and why aren't my divisions getting reinforced?


2. Most of my airbases that have planes have no trucks issues so also aren't being reinforced. I've placed most units within 3 hexes of depots and have most depots in Europe a priority level 1.

Is there something I'm missing with regards to a lack of trucks. I know Germany did suffer a shortage historically.


Post #: 1
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/17/2017 11:44:13 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

The production screen does not show squads..it shows the equipment for squads. To make an actual guy in game, it needs manpower.

Yes...you are out of manpower as the Germans. It is inevitable. The only solution is to disband the really beat up units (or the crappier units). I usually disband Luftwaffe divisions for example.

You probably should have all your depots as the Germans at level 4. You have the advantange of rail-lines...and the allies will play wack-a-mole trying to keep suppressing them. Build extra ones in all the cities with a railyard of at least 2. Best to do this early so they all fill up during the 'sitzkreig' until D-Day.

For a squadron to reinforce....it needs to have pilots. You don't get very many. You can at least add non-Trained pilots to them, or you can also disband squadrons to release pilots for other squadrons.

At the start of a campaign game..put all the depots at priority 4, and set the Supply priority of the German army to level 4. Put them all on refit.

Next turn you will see a rather large jump in CV as reinforcements pour into them from your starting manpower...but it will run out over the next few turns.



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“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 2
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/19/2017 10:17:22 AM   
cato12

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2011
Status: offline 		When you say I'm out of manpower even at this early stage, the production screen says otherwise unless I'm missing something.

German manpower in pool reads = 98948

And under manpower special for Germany it reads = 163000

ps,

My airbases which are in the same hexes as well supplied depots have the no trucks issue with supply.

My understanding of the rules are that all german unit within 3 hexes of a depot are assumes to receive supply with horse and carts etc. Why would they be having issue with no trucks?

< Message edited by cato12 -- 3/19/2017 11:32:21 AM >

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 3
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/19/2017 12:48:38 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Please filter production menu to show only active elements, many of them may be in transfer pool.

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 4
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/20/2017 8:48:10 AM   
cato12

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2011
Status: offline 		That is indeed the case, active manpower reads 11149 and special reads 44625. What's the difference with normal manpower and special?

Also, what about my truck question?


(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 5
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/20/2017 11:29:44 AM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Yes historiclly the germans lacked trucks and its reflected in the game. If any thing the game is more forgiven, than history. Its just how it is. Sounds like u take the precautionary steps u can.

Even before 6 june 1944 OB West as a whole was litteraly lacking tens of thousans of trucks. No divisions in the entire OB West has 100% of ToE and many of the Panzer including SS has severe lackings in that department.
7th army supply column has going by memory some thing like between 250 and 300 trucks to supply the entire army at the start of june 1944. Far less than needed and it has to rely primarily on horse drawn transportation for its supply needs.
Requesition of civilian vechiles produce next to no succes nor is OB West plea for more transportations vehicles met at more than a fraction of the requested. Truck production actually decresed ine teh year pre that and well the civilian trucks through out europe has alrdy in large been requsitioned by this point.

Kind regards,
Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 3/20/2017 11:34:04 AM >

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 6
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/20/2017 11:54:56 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Yes historiclly the germans lacked trucks and its reflected in the game. If any thing the game is more forgiven, than history. Its just how it is. Sounds like u take the precautionary steps u can.

Even before 6 june 1944 OB West as a whole was litteraly lacking tens of thousans of trucks. No divisions in the entire OB West has 100% of ToE and many of the Panzer including SS has severe lackings in that department.
7th army supply column has going by memory some thing like between 250 and 300 trucks to supply the entire army at the start of june 1944. Far less than needed and it has to rely primarily on horse drawn transportation for its supply needs.
Requesition of civilian vechiles produce next to no succes nor is OB West plea for more transportations vehicles met at more than a fraction of the requested. Truck production actually decresed ine teh year pre that and well the civilian trucks through out europe has alrdy in large been requsitioned by this point.

Kind regards,
Rasmus


And just to add some historical things, requisitioned civilian trucks were badly lacking in reliability, mobility and carry capacity, as was realized in East 1941 onward.

They were not even near of capability of US trucks like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_CCKW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%C2%BD-ton_6x6_truck
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_WC_series

Soviets were very happy with 6x6 trucks for their mobility on bad roads (as were US) and since many had winch if front, truck was often able to winch itself out even when stuck.

British truck situation (apart from US trucks used) was, while not as chaotic as German, quite bad too. Brits used 40 (!) different types and manufacturers. Good example of Brit tendency to seek complex solutions to simple problems... (I should know, worked years for British company...). And e.g. autumn 1944, just when trucks were needed most, UK had to withdraw thousands of trucks (IIRC 4000+) because of faulty pistons.

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(in reply to Walloc)
Post #: 7
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/21/2017 8:23:53 AM   
cato12

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2011
Status: offline 		Great info there guys. I've read a few books on the eastern front so I know all about the chronic shortage in trucks the germans had.

That wasn't my question though, this was

My airbases which are in the same hexes as well supplied depots have the 'no trucks' issue with supply.

My understanding of the rules are that all german unit within 3 hexes of a depot are assumes to receive supply with horse and carts etc. Why would they be having issue with no trucks?

Also,

Does no one know what the difference is between manpower and special manpower on the productions screen?

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 8
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/21/2017 12:54:27 PM   
Walloc

 

Posts: 3141
Joined: 10/30/2006
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cato12
My airbases which are in the same hexes as well supplied depots have the 'no trucks' issue with supply.

My understanding of the rules are that all german unit within 3 hexes of a depot are assumes to receive supply with horse and carts etc. Why would they be having issue with no trucks?


For supply there might not be an issue, but for movement it is. If u lack transport u cant move around the heavy equipment or as fast. U walk slower on ur feet than if trucked naturally, which gets represented in ur MPs gets reduced. Thats the issue with the lack of trucks.
So its more an issue of how much of ur division are being horse drawn for transportation purposes rather than purely about supply in this case. Being reflcted in the MP. A inf division might not be static per say, but still lack half its alloted trucks which then has a baring on its mobility.

Hope it helps,
Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 3/21/2017 12:55:57 PM >

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 9
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/21/2017 6:17:00 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Most WA units (including airbases) must be within 1 hex of a depot not to use vehicles. Germans can go out 3 hexes. Does that explain your truck situation?

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All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 10
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/21/2017 7:23:43 PM   
cato12

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2011
Status: offline 		Not really because im looking at a german airbase now which is in the same hex as a well stocked depot which shows 'no trucks 70' on the supply screen. If the rule states no trucks are used within 3 hexes then why the no trucks message with this airbase?

It's not a major issue, I just like to understand what all the numbers mean in this fascinating game and also make sure I'm understanding the rules properly.

Same goes for the difference between manpower and special manpower.




< Message edited by cato12 -- 3/21/2017 7:49:30 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 11
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/21/2017 11:52:00 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		I can't explain it other than thinking that there's a bug in the system that gives warnings (or there's a bug in the system that supplies airfields). I hope it's just the warning message that's the problem (they are limited and can be misleading even when working well). If you can send a save where you see the message, as well as the save before this happens so I can try to duplicate it, we'll see if we can figure out what's going on. Either attach the saves to a post here or email them to 2by3@2by3games.com. Thanks.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 12
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/22/2017 12:21:34 AM   
IslandInland


Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Good example of Brit tendency to seek complex solutions to simple problems


To add to your generalisation, that sounds far more like a German tendency, particularly as regards military vehicles in WW II.




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Post #: 13
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/22/2017 8:04:26 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: XXXCorps


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

Good example of Brit tendency to seek complex solutions to simple problems


To add to your generalisation, that sounds far more like a German tendency, particularly as regards military vehicles in WW II.





Oh, they had that too.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


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Post #: 14
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/24/2017 5:16:07 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cato12

Not really because im looking at a german airbase now which is in the same hex as a well stocked depot which shows 'no trucks 70' on the supply screen. If the rule states no trucks are used within 3 hexes then why the no trucks message with this airbase?



In the save you sent, you mentioned the Kiel airbase as the example of a no trucks message. Since the unit has an oversupply of fuel, ammo and supplies, it's only having trouble getting men and vehicles (for its own TOE, not in terms of being short of trucks to bring the freight). The manpower pool is tight, so it can't deliver all the men the unit might want, and the vehicle pool is also tight. Yes, there are vehicles in the pool, but there's always a certain amount of vehicles moving to and from the pool and recently built that are not available to be sent out during the turn (can be 10-20k doing this at any one time). You will always end up with some vehicles in the pool at the end of the logistics phase, but likely they were unavailable to be added to the unit when it was checking to get them. Do you have another example you can point to where the items not being received are supplies, ammo or fuel and the unit is not short of vehicles in its TOE?


_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to cato12)
Post #: 15
RE: Couple of axis question - 3/27/2017 5:54:26 PM   
cato12

 

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2011
Status: offline 		Nah that explanation if fine joel. I've played a few more turns over the weekend and haven't noticed any adverse effects.

Thanks for the response!

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 16
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