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RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome

 
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RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 11:04:46 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn thirtyseven.

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To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 121
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 11:13:40 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Did you try engineer/sapper brigade support unit ? They have the same purpose as RR construction brigade (repairing rail), but use less men. They are very efficient to built railroad as an engineer built faster than a basic labor squad. And saving men is usefull.


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 6/13/2017 11:22:24 AM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 122
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 1:02:59 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Did you try engineer/sapper brigade support unit ? They have the same purpose as RR construction brigade (repairing rail), but use less men. They are very efficient to built railroad as an engineer built faster than a basic labor squad. And saving men is usefull.



I did try them out against Pelton, but for this game I have stuck with regular RR units. That may have been a bad move, according to what you say, but I think that manpower is not really a great issue in this game.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 123
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 4:01:35 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		You often mention the coefficient Man2gun, but it does not take into account the very essence of army mechanization - tanks! It turns out that if a player creates tank divisions to the detriment of infantry, then Man2gun falls - not logical.

The difficulty is that from the number of tanks of the USSR it is necessary to subtract the "tanks" completely obsolete and, in fact, tanks that are not. Of the 21k at the beginning of the war, only a little more than 1k were new. For example, if you recount your formula in this order, then the Germans = 116.2, the USSR = 88.5 (assuming that 80% of the tanks for the 37th turn are modern).

By the way, Stalin did not say the phrase that you have in your signature, you will not find it in any document. The quotation lives from a free retelling of the nazi Ribbentrop, who heard what he wanted to hear or (more accurately) invented it himself to substantiate diplomatic moves on redistribution of spheres of influence in the Baltics. Stalin could certainly say this, but not "..help for Germany", but "..help for the German people" (in terms of freeing the Germans from fascism). One way or another, and a phrase taken out of context - absolutely distorts the reality.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 124
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 5:09:26 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GDHF
You often mention the coefficient Man2gun, but it does not take into account the very essence of army mechanization - tanks! It turns out that if a player creates tank divisions to the detriment of infantry, then Man2gun falls - not logical.

The difficulty is that from the number of tanks of the USSR it is necessary to subtract the "tanks" completely obsolete and, in fact, tanks that are not. Of the 21k at the beginning of the war, only a little more than 1k were new. For example, if you recount your formula in this order, then the Germans = 116.2, the USSR = 88.5 (assuming that 80% of the tanks for the 37th turn are modern).


Obviously, the Man2Gun index is not an extact value specifying how the game is going, but I still think it holds some value.

By comparing the number of guns to the number of men in the Wehrmacht and the Red Army, you get a figure telling if the respective production systems are able to keep replacing lost guns in the fighting units. If this number rises, the production system is trailing behind and, over time, you will have a problem.

By wathcing detailed attack reports, I have come to the conclusion that it is in fact the guns that are responsible for causing most of the casualties suffered in ground combat. Especially when taking into account that there are generally fewer men operating a gun than are in a squad. You get more "punch" pr soldier in a gun unit than you do for the same soldier in an infantry squad.

In theory, you are right that the number of tanks will have an adverse effect on the man2gun index, but I do not think this is terribly important. Of more impact is the nature of the guns used. The Man2Gun index treats both an Anti Tank Rifle and a 155mm howitzer as one gun, while they are obviously of different value to the combat unit they are assigned to.

To sum up, I simply use the Man2Gun index as a simple way of tracking the development in quality of the various infantry forces that makes up the majority of the fighting forces on both sides. The system is far from perfect, but I think it adds some value for the effort I put into tracking it (I automated the tracking, so I get it for free).

On a different note, I guess I will have to look for another brilliant Stalin quote.




_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 125
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 8:16:17 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

I automated the tracking, so I get it for free

Yes this is the main thing
The more so that you can always look at the number of Wehrmacht tanks, if more than 10k - win will be difficult :)

in all the games, I am a fan of the USSR. Because of the special nostalgia for my Motherland. Before the favorite was the game respected STEF78, now I'm his opponent's fan :) But your game I like more than them (closer to Berlin) :)

Look forward to continuing this wonderful game. Thank you

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 126
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/13/2017 8:34:21 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

On a different note, I guess I will have to look for another brilliant Stalin quote.


Use real 100% historical and true staline quote like this :



< Message edited by Stelteck -- 6/13/2017 8:35:31 PM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 127
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/14/2017 9:03:09 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

(I automated the tracking, so I get it for free).

How? Do you have a kind of script copying the exported text document into excel?
I use the export function as well but copy everything by hand.
The export function reveals information usually hidden, as it differentiates among AFC and SP/APCs and shows the number of trucks in enemy units.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 128
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/15/2017 4:04:46 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
How? Do you have a kind of script copying the exported text document into excel?
I use the export function as well but copy everything by hand.
The export function reveals information usually hidden, as it differentiates among AFC and SP/APCs and shows the number of trucks in enemy units.


Strictly speaking, this is only true because I already note down the OoB for each nation each turn.

I have always taken the time to write down the developments in OoB for each nation each turn (see the spreadsheet that is exported with each AAR).

Doing that, calculating the man2gun index is simple.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 129
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/15/2017 8:21:50 AM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		In case you copy them by hand from the ingame reports: In the CR is a little button "export", it creates a text document with OOBs, units, production etc.
If you design your spreadsheet the right way, you can simply copy and paste the inforrmation, which saves allot of work. As already said, the export function reveales some information ususally hidden.

And Stalin is right, M2G-index is indeed awesome! Looking forward to your in detail axis aar :)

Regards

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 130
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/21/2017 7:26:32 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn thirtyeight.

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_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 131
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/21/2017 7:50:44 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Why do you not do an all out hit and run attack with your infantry? You have many units in far behind the front to keep multiple layers of defense. But his stacks are very weak, the units have 2-6 CV (even the mobile units) and I cannot imagine that he is able to attack with them as long as you are reasonable careful. Just go one hax forward, attack, move back to the fortified line.
In addition you deny him a fortified line. This will weaken possible offensive plans even further as he has to use more troops to guard the weak areas.
Even if it backfires, you have the man and guns to replace 2 or 3 armies but any loss will hurt Hermann.

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 6/21/2017 7:58:06 PM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 132
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 6/22/2017 2:55:46 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		I was actually conducting a lot of attacks up and down the front at this point in the game (more than the Germans each turn).

However, in a few locations I wished for my fortifications to strengthen to at least one before I started attacking.

I did so based on a belief that any results achieved before the mud would be minor, and so I had better prepare for the summer. At this point I also began entertaining the idea of an early summer Soviet offensive against the weak Germans south of Smolensk.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 133
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/1/2017 1:35:44 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn thirtynine.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 134
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/2/2017 12:13:26 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn forty.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 135
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 1:13:46 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		what's the point of holding full divisions (not 20% brigades), including the Guards vs Finns?

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 136
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 7:15:41 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		No point really.

I just think it is to "artificial" if the entire front against the finns is held by fortified regions and AT gun regiments. As far as I recall, I did not have any guards standing at the Finnish border.

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 137
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 7:18:05 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline 		Turn fortyone.

As it happened, the game ended after I did the turn. Victory conditions state that at the beginning of April the Germans must hold at least 189 Victory points to stay in the game. They did not, and so I win a decisive victory (according to Morvael) even though the game "report" indicated a minor Axis victory.


Attachment (1)

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 138
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 7:22:15 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 4689
Joined: 3/20/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir
I win a decisive victory (according to Morvael) even though the game "report" indicated a minor Axis victory.


That is one bug you have to gasp at - but at least the correct result is clear and it did not affect the gameplay.

Will you be able to add a epitaph on what your game plan would have been in future turns even if they were not played out?

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 139
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 7:31:17 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 620
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Will you be able to add a epitaph on what your game plan would have been in future turns even if they were not played out?


I contemplated two different moves.

1) Wait for a while and see how things turned out n the early spring before deciding on any action on my part. Time in this game was so surely on my side that this approach held no risk whatsoever. I could simply wait to see what the Germans did, and then respond while planning and launching my own attack.

2) An early spring attack on the Germans west of Bryansk. The German formations in this area was pretty mauled bythe fighting over the winter, and with me beginning to form Tank Corps, I was seriously contemplating throwing my forces forward in a pincer attack during the first (or second, letting the German Panzers commit themselves to whatever they had planned) spring turn.



_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 140
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 8:15:38 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1376
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Congratulation for the german success. Heu sorry, the soviet success !!!

Sudden death conditions are quite harsh here, the following years could have been quite interesting.

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 141
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/3/2017 8:16:52 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Congrats Dinglir!

_____________________________


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 142
RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome - 7/5/2017 7:21:25 AM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		victory and auto end game? nooooooooo ... :(
Victoria nulla Quam quae confessos animo quoque subjugat hostes




(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 143
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