Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (Full Version)

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Dinglir -> Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/8/2017 8:06:59 AM)

Turn one.




M60A3TTS -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/8/2017 5:53:29 PM)

One note on aircraft, including the Pe-2 and SB-2 that are considered "fast bombers", I don't know why the load capacity says one thing and the carried devices another.

Pe-2 load capacity 2207. Actual load 6-100kg bombs
DB-3B load capacity 2207. Actual load 10-100kg bombs
IL-4 load capacity 2207. Actual load 10-100kg bombs
SB-2 load capacity 3309. Actual load 6-100kg bombs

The American lend-lease bombers actually have numbers that align properly.





Stelteck -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/8/2017 8:50:32 PM)

Good luck Dingir in another epic struggle !!!




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/8/2017 9:33:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Good luck Dingir in another epic struggle !!!



Good luck Dinglir, you too Hermann ;-)




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/8/2017 9:36:26 PM)

I have to give Hermann a great deal of credit for keeping it historical. My hat off to him for that. But in my opinion that is going to come back and bite him in the rear.




sillyflower -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/8/2017 9:50:35 PM)

Yup

With the game at the moment, a poor turn in the south without Lvov pocket + a weak T1 in the north (several R units escaping or will escape) means G will struggle to have better than a poor summer O unless soviets let them off the hook.

Frankly, I don't see the point of G being 'historical' re Lvov pocket without some equally historical concession by the soviets. Just shifts the game's delicate balance too far.




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/9/2017 10:44:48 AM)

Wow I've never been invited to an AAR before. Kind of nice to see a historical German player in action even if its me not crossing the river wasn't part of the plan we got held up at Riga and had to divert a couple panzer divisions to Trump things up. Had a similar problem in the south and was forced to divert a couple units to block his retreat to Rowno, otherwise things went to plan. he did lose a few planes stubbornly defending my ground attacks hopefully he got the message and uses them for paperweights like they're designed to be,
. I was a bit disappointed that he managed to ship out those units up north again I blame Riga. My initial objectives are exactly historical but I am flexible. 3pza is heading for Vitebsk to join 2pza at Smolensk for fun and frolic, there's rumors of nurses in the vicinity. 4pza is headed for Pskov and first pza is trying to reach the Dnieper and cut off lateral movement west of the river.




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/9/2017 11:07:04 AM)

payload fraction is a common term used to characterize the efficiency of a particular design. Payload fraction is calculated by dividing the weight of the payload by the takeoff weight of aircraft. Fuel represents a considerable amount of the overall takeoff weight, and for shorter trips it is quite common to load less fuel in order to carry a lighter load. For this reason the useful load fraction calculates a similar number, but based on the combined weight of the payload and fuel together.

Propeller-driven airliners had useful load fractions on the order of 25-35%.

Empty weight: 5,875 kg (12,952 lb)
Loaded weight: 7,563 kg (16,639 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 8,495 kg (18,728 lb)




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/9/2017 11:09:34 AM)

don't know how aircraft are modeled ingame but technically short range missions should have a heavier payload than long range flights. nice observation I hope the designers pick it up maybe code it so that tonnage of bombs drops at certain distances 100km 300km 600km etc.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/9/2017 2:59:28 PM)

Turn two.




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/9/2017 10:00:19 PM)

very annoying problems in Russia think the black marketers are siphoning my fuel.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/10/2017 1:26:27 PM)

Turn three.




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/10/2017 5:52:48 PM)

in my own defense The Panzers were parked waiting for the 18 army to slog their way up to Narwa. some fool planted a bunch of infantry in the swamp east of Pskov and I was concerned about scratching my paint on their carcasses. The supply break in AGC had a pretty big impact on 3Pza and they were waiting for 9 Army to move north of the River on their way to velikye Luki and the hopelessly unsupplied 2Pza to Reach Mogilev. In the South things move at the pace of supply - without any big pockets its a bit touchy rushing forward so I was focused on displacing the troops facing my noble Romanian cohorts. All told so far the opponent has been very active and aggressive and the air war in particular is amazing, I've never encountered an opponent that uses his Air to such effectand welcome the challenge. ZI have a different set of objectives than the Panzerball guys - my focus is long term slugfest and im not out to wi n it in 20 turns or keep the enemy crippled till winter. Pretty much as long as the Russian lets me go where I want I'm a pretty friendly guy but when he gets in my way I stomp him. I believe that infantry should bear the burden of attack and armor is more value as a threat than a sledgehammer. If an enemy ignores the threat sledgehammer it is.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/11/2017 1:37:38 PM)

Turn four.




Stelteck -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/11/2017 1:48:31 PM)

you probably know this, but if you left a garnison isolated, drop supply with level bombers to put this unit from "Isolated" to "AirBeach supply".

The garnison will fight better in AirBeach supply. (It is quite funny, there are 1000 supply in the town but the troops are isolated. You drop 10 more supply from the sky and now the troops are airbeach with far better fighting capability, lol [:'(]).




Telemecus -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/11/2017 1:54:16 PM)

I always wondered about this ... once isolated they will be lost. Is sending in supplies like good money after bad? If you are not supply constrained (if ever?) and or you are taking more movement points from panzers maybe, but if not your supply could be put to better use elsewhere? But I guess you are saying for a miniscule air supply you get great effects from the existing city supply.

We'l wait in trepidation for what Dinglir does!




Stelteck -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/11/2017 1:59:21 PM)

You have nearly unlimited supply, do not worry about that. Some airDrop will not alter the balance at all.

But it is true that sometimes, you will prefer that your unit surrender fast (and so return faster) instead of staying alive, isolated in a useless part of the map.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/11/2017 4:47:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

you probably know this, but if you left a garnison isolated, drop supply with level bombers to put this unit from "Isolated" to "AirBeach supply".

The garnison will fight better in AirBeach supply. (It is quite funny, there are 1000 supply in the town but the troops are isolated. You drop 10 more supply from the sky and now the troops are airbeach with far better fighting capability, lol [:'(]).


Actually, I was not aware of that fact. Thanks for the information.

I also guess it does make sense for the encircled troops to have that "They still bring in supplies, we are not alone" feeling.




Telemecus -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/11/2017 4:56:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir
I also guess it does make sense for the encircled troops to have that "They still bring in supplies, we are not alone" feeling.


I was reading from Stahel's work that in 1941 many surrounded Soviet troops had no idea they were surrounded. Whereas in the Battle of France soldiers knew their strategic situation and surrendered - in Barbarossa the Soviets did not and so did not. If you are not used to any credible information all you know is what you see. And the view on the front line for a soldier in a big pocket is the same as one on the front line not in a pocket.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/12/2017 6:02:47 PM)

Turn five.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/12/2017 7:26:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL:

In the south, I discovered that the Germans have made a serious blunder in setting up their air defence this turn. Probably hoping for a lot of kills against my night bombers, the local Luftwaffe fighters were all set to fly at night, while staying grounded during the day. As usual, it only took a couple of light probing attacks to establish this, after which I could hit the Luftwaffe bases at daylight with everything I had. That everything included six Air Groups of IL-2 and another six with SU-2’s. After those attacks were done, the German fighter losses were 69 Bf109 F-2’s. Another noticeable thingwais the loss of 49 German Ju/52 Transports. The attacks left the Luftwaffe with basically no fighting capability outside Kiev, which should impact them somewhat come next turn.





Oh my, thats gotta hurt. Dinglir I bet you dropped a ton of Scnapps first to these Germans to catch them on the ground. Thats not right ;-P

(btw nice bombing run)




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/12/2017 7:34:44 PM)

@##$%!!




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/12/2017 8:33:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann

@##$%!!


Woke up from that Scnapps hangover I see.




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/13/2017 5:53:11 AM)

Ive a surprise coming for comrade Dinglr unfortunately I found a bug devising it so im going to unleash it in a low key manner to avoid exploiting the bug




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/13/2017 7:16:32 AM)

Me like surprises....




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/13/2017 11:22:12 AM)

Turn six.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/14/2017 5:38:24 PM)

Turn seven.




Hermann -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/15/2017 5:17:03 PM)

ust want to point out here that although the Russian player is at a serious disadvantage - the historical attacker allows him to actually take part in the game with the panzerball approach the Russian player is forced to sit turn after turn watching 40 motorsed formations surround po ket after pocket in one tiny section of the front till he runs out of troops... no way to play a wargame. my opponent has had time to display some excellent and admirable qualities and has earned my respect. he is resourceful, observant and meticulous .... GREAT opponent. Panzerballers really need to realize there are 2 players in the game and the key to a great experience is allowing both sides to play ... winning or losing is weeks into the game - having fun starts at turn 1.




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/15/2017 5:48:12 PM)

Leningrad defense buildup.

Since writing the information contained in this document, I have learned the error of my digging process (you need a fortified region in order to dig to lvl three at the Neva River).




Dinglir -> RE: Hermann (Axis) Vrs Dinglir (Soviet) - Hermann welcome (4/15/2017 6:16:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hermann
ust want to point out here that although the Russian player is at a serious disadvantage - the historical attacker allows him to actually take part in the game with the panzerball approach the Russian player is forced to sit turn after turn watching 40 motorsed formations surround po ket after pocket in one tiny section of the front till he runs out of troops... no way to play a wargame. my opponent has had time to display some excellent and admirable qualities and has earned my respect. he is resourceful, observant and meticulous .... GREAT opponent. Panzerballers really need to realize there are 2 players in the game and the key to a great experience is allowing both sides to play ... winning or losing is weeks into the game - having fun starts at turn 1.


Personally, I take no offense at the strategy of the "Panzerball players". What I do think, is that every game should be set up to contain a challenge for both players. Both players should then play the game to the best of their ability to achieve the best possible result. The task for the Soviet player facing a Panzer ball, is to set up in such a way that he minimizes the number of units lost, while keeping the proper amount of terrain.

The problem, in my mind, is not the Panzer ball strategy, but the "German scientific approach" that so often goes with it. In the early game, the Germans hold the initiative, so the German player can, over a period of several games, develop an almost perfect "script" for winning. This is shown perfectly by HardLuck in his game versus Stelteck. HardLuck has perfected his strategy, and against players unfamiliar with it, it is practically a certain win.

Let us take that game strategy as an example. Hardluck has now played some 15 different opponents with it and won every game early on. Imagine he had played the same opponent 15 times - does it not stand to reason, that the result would have been very different?

Please do not construe this as a critizism of HardLuck. I have every respect that he actually publizises his strategy, hoping for people to develop methods to beat it. If he had just sought easy wins and a high win/loss ratio, he would have acted very differently.




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